Friend has fallen into COVID-conspiracies

Mendel

Senior Member.
Where were the victims in the crowd? ...at the front? in the same location? What was the cause(s) of death?
Nobody knows when the victims were vaccinated (they may not have been), so the evidence for a link is zero right now.

On the other hand, there is both a known mechanism and precedent for people dying at a concert panic.

We're looking at people with an agenda exploiting a tragedy (remember Sandy Hook) by making up claims with no evidence. The burden of proof is on them.
 

Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
Nobody knows when the victims were vaccinated (they may not have been), so the evidence for a link is zero right now.

On the other hand, there is both a known mechanism and precedent for people dying at a concert panic.

We're looking at people with an agenda exploiting a tragedy (remember Sandy Hook) by making up claims with no evidence. The burden of proof is on them.
Your reply does not address my question. Where were the deceased in the crowd? Near the stage? somewhere else? Were they all at the same location? What was the cause of death?
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Your reply does not address my question. Where were the deceased in the crowd? Near the stage? somewhere else? Were they all at the same location? What was the cause of death?
What I'm saying is that the anti-vaxxers ought to answer these questions, because they need to bring the evidence that vaccines were involved.

People dying because of a panic at a concert is not an extraordinary claim, and therefore needs no extraordinary evidence.

I'm also saying that it's irresponsible to make these vaccine claims without evidence.
 

Itsme

Active Member
Many years ago I got trapped in a crowd leaving a concert venue through a small exit. For just a few seconds the pressure on my body became so high that I literally could not expand my lungs anymore to take the next breath. I could never imagine a crowd could put so much pressure on my body until it happened. There was no way I could push back anymore and I'm not a small person. Luckily the situation only lasted a few seconds, but I can totally imagine people suffocating in such a situation, ultimately leading to their heart stopping due to a combination of lack of oxygen and sheer panic.

There are many cases in history where this happened.

Trying to link this to vaccination is complete and utter nonsense, and a sign of serious paranoia.
 

Jeffrey Orling

Senior Member
It's hard for me to comprehend the stupidity of the people who go to these events and become part of a mob.
I think planners should know what to expect and plan for ways to manage a mob and treat the many who will be injured... which sadly, seems inevitable. I suspect the people in the crowd were unaware of dangerous is could be... or simply didn't think anything bad would happen to them.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
What do you think of his "arguments" and how can I help him?

I think his arguments are poor and that there isn't anything you can do to help him. I imagine he will be like this for years, and maybe the rest of his life, and that probably it will get worse.

So my advice for you is to contemplate that possibility and figure out what will work best for you.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
For the concert, another thing to ponder is why this many deaths and injuries happened at that concert, and not at any others. If it's vaccine related, you ought to see dozens of stretchers at any major rock concert, but that's not what happens.
 
First of all, anyone can make up a claim. It is their job to prove it.

Second, you found the 2018 data, and it was around 50 (Congress has 485 members), and that hasn't changed much:
Article:

10 Most Popular Stocks Owned by Congress in 2021

SmartSelect_20211029-120230_Samsung Internet.jpg


Third, congress doesn't decide whether the vaccine is good; and it's used all over the world, not just in the USA.

Pfizer's a good stock, why wouldn't they invest in it?
good stock is prolly overselling its value. Prolly would of been better just throwing a dart at the board than investing in pfizer
eg Worst performing stock here out the first ones in that list :D
https://www.tipranks.com/compare-st...&ticker=PFE&ticker=MSFT&ticker=BAC&ticker=DIS

If they are making so much money from the vaccines why has pfizers stock price not reflecting this?
Rhetorical question, as vaccines are not typically a big money maker. Sure they make money but its not a license to print money like eg the supplement industry
 

PenaH

Member

Mendel

Senior Member.
On other hand I'm just really tired of his constant "proof" spamming and on other hand I do feel bad for him and I hope I could help him somehow.
At this point, over the Internet, you probably can't.

Personally, I draw the line at watching propaganda videos, my time and mental well-being is too precious to spend it on that.

The last one appears to be about California governor Newsom allegedly suffering from side effects from his booster shots, a claim I couldn't find evidence for yesterday, and which would prove very little even if it is true.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Here is just 5 of his "proofs"
can anyone besides you on this site, read those? This is an english speaking website.

and why are you helping to spread this bunk? Gavin Newsome in a coma (at GITMO to boot!) ? give me a break.

Article:
While he was not seen in public for almost two weeks after he received the shot, he was photographed at a wedding in San Francisco on November 6, 2021, and appeared live at a political event on November 9, 2021. The site that made the claim is a satire website known for outlandishly false stories about celebrities and politicians being arrested, tried and executed at GITMO, none of which have proven to be true.

The claim appeared as an article published by Real Raw News on November 9, 2021, titled "Gavin Newsom Awakens from Vaccine Coma - At GITMO - Real Raw News" (archived here)


add: Nov 4th ..not in a coma
Source: https://twitter.com/CAgovernor/status/1456325241731387397
 
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the German city of Mainz where BioNtech is located is looking forward to a huge tax windfall (1 billion €) and hopes to be debt-free by the end of next year.
well thats good, they will be ready for their next flood then. :)

But the quote was about Pfizer and not bioNtech
"Btw, did you know most of members of Congress have Pfizer stocks? If that doesn't seem suspicious, I think nothing will"
And like Im implying Pfizer didn't do as well as might be expected during this pandemic
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
well thats good, they will be ready for their next flood then. :)

But the quote was about Pfizer and not bioNtech
"Btw, did you know most of members of Congress have Pfizer stocks? If that doesn't seem suspicious, I think nothing will"
And like Im implying Pfizer didn't do as well as might be expected during this pandemic


Article:
Biotech giant Pfizer expects to generate $33.5 billion in Covid-19 vaccine sales in 2021, up from previous estimates of $26 billion, according to its second quarter earnings reports. These projections are based on the 2.1 billion doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine which the company expects to manufacture and deliver by the end of the year.




Article:
Last year, racing to develop a vaccine in record time, Pfizer made a big decision: Unlike several rival manufacturers, which vowed to forgo profits on their shots during the Covid-19 pandemic, Pfizer planned to profit on its vaccine.
.......
The company did not disclose the profits it derived from the vaccine, but it reiterated its previous prediction that its profit margins on the vaccine would be in the high 20 percent range. That would translate into roughly $900 million in pretax vaccine profits in the first quarter.
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
This morning, he just send me whole bunch of twitter links (about 15) with just text "You need to wake up to this god damn lie. I care about you". On other hand I'm just really tired of his constant "proof" spamming and on other hand I do feel bad for him and I hope I could help him somehow

Unfortunately it appears that you are falling into your own rabbit hole. Just as he is becoming lost in a world of conspiracy theories, you appear to be becoming lost in trying to make sense of his madness and the mad things he sends you. Repeatedly posting conspiracy theories here isn't doing anyone any good - for one, it's not how this site works, and for another, it's kind of doing what he is doing. I think you need to make up your mind about what you're looking for here. Are you looking to have the things he sends you debunked? If that's the case then start individual threads in the appropriate sections. But if you're looking for advice about how to deal with your friend then maybe stick to that. I feel like myself and others have offered good advice along the lines of not engaging with him - and/or accepting that, for the time being at least, he's probably already lost - but I dont remember you once addressing this advice, sharing your feelings about it, or asking further questions about how that might work. In a nutshell, it seems you're not really interested in our help and are more interested in passing on the bunk that he sends you. I understand this may seem like a rational course of action and is perhaps born out of a sense of helplessness, but it doesn't seem like one that's going to help anybody - least of all your friend. I recommend:

1. If he sends you more bunk just say "he sent me more bunk" - we don't need to know what it is - and tell us how you feel about it. If you feel helpless say that. If you feel like you don't know what to do say that.

2. Have you tried disengaging? Have you tried saying something along the lines of "listen, I love you as a friend but I dont want you to send me this stuff anymore, let's talk about something else"? If so, what happened? If not, why not?

3. If you want to know something about a particular piece of bunk start a thread and it will be investigated.

Good luck.
 
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