Elizondo's Romanian Non-Human Mothership Photo [Reflection of a Light Fixture]

[Mick West]

I don't know, so I guess this is speculation- rightly frowned upon here- but I doubt if Elizondo is the target of a "psyop".

The theory suggested on Reddit and X is that here's part of a psyop, not the target.

I think it's more likely he's simply a believer.

 

[Ann K]

The theory suggested on Reddit and X is that here's part of a psyop, not the target.

I think it's more likely he's simply a believer.

I think if he were really a believer, he would be more excited about documenting and photographing a house full of orbs, yet he casually throws them into discussions without apparently taking any steps to verify the claim. That suggests to me that he is (1) lying with intent, or (2) an uncertain believer who is apprehensive about debunking his own beliefs.

 

[Mick West]

I think if he were really a believer, he would be more excited about documenting and photographing a house full of orbs, yet he casually throws them into discussions without apparently taking any steps to verify the claim. That suggests to me that he is (1) lying with intent, or (2) an uncertain believer who is apprehensive about debunking his own beliefs.

Or something similar to La Belle Indifference

Article:

The term "la belle indifference" is a French term that translates to "beautiful ignorance."[1] La belle indifference is defined as a paradoxical absence of psychological distress despite a serious medical illness or symptoms of a health condition.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK560842/

But this is all highly speculative. There are several possibilities, and maybe some that have yet to be considered.

 

[Mendel]

Kind of agree. The dispiriting thing is, so many claims from what might now be described as "mainstream" UFOlogy are so unoriginal. There seems to be a canon of accepted-as-true things- Roswell, Greys, abductions, government (or Bad Guys therein) knowledge and cover-ups, imminent "disclosure".

I've seen the thought expressed that conspiracy theories operate like comic book universes, by a scriptwriter for Tucker Carlsen reviewing a conspiracy website where Trump is still in control and executing people daily. Excerpts:

Article:

Your Book Review: Real Raw News
Finalist #6 in the Book Review Contest

[...]

Conspiracies Evolve Like Comic Book Lore

In his review of the Alexander Romance, Scott remarked that figures like Alexander the Great or Hercules were, essentially, the pre-modern versions of Batman: Stories about them are a genre, with countless different variations and stylistic choices that evolve over time, with just a few set principles guiding all of them.

But the same phenomenon exists in the world of conspiracies. Instead of a consistent, elaborate canon, what we have is a few story beats with a lot of customization and the occasional retcon.

Some of these people are smart enough to notice inconsistencies, at least when they're pointed out, so why don't they bother them? To some extent, I think it's for the same reason people don't care that every Batman story doesn't perfectly line up. Consistency isn't the point! What actually matters is enjoying individual stories and the wider genre they fit into. Covid vaccine haters don't think too hard about any specific story. Instead, they're driven by a core impulse of "distrust the new vaccine that people I distrust are promoting," and every conceivably story or tale that feeds that genre of thought is, for them, worthwhile.

Source: https://readscottalexander.com/posts/acx-your-book-review-real-raw-news

What this means is that there's a set of core motifs around which UFO stories are constructed: this is no longer avant garde, but an established genre that has become mostly predictable. In that universe, debunkers are actually a type of villain.

 

[Ben Harris]

He uses a Billy Meier faked pic in his publicity kit. Madness from the UFO CIRCUS.

 

[Scaramanga]

But this is all highly speculative. There are several possibilities, and maybe some that have yet to be considered.

If I recall correctly, Lou Elizondo was speaking in the context of the alleged 'hitch-hiker' effect...which I think I am right in saying also occurred with Jay Stratton and others and particularly in connection with Skinwalker Ranch. So clearly he himself does not think it is just some random green orbs. And as none of the other 'hitch-hiker' effect people have recorded any events, that made it all the more imperative that Elizondo do so. Elizondo does not say exactly how often the orbs occurred....though I gained the impression it was maybe every few weeks over 6 years.

I can understand a person not being ready or prepared for the first such event, or maybe even the second, but surely if this phenomenon was even semi-regular any truly enquiring mind would want to record it rather than make excuses. You can get a good motion detection camera ( I have one in my house ) for a few tens of dollars or pounds. I have checked and the one I have would be activated by an orb ( I made an artificial one ) , and for its cheapness actually gives quite a good image. All such triggered videos are recorded. You can even have it send an alert to your mobile phone when the camera is triggered.

I can't believe Elizondo does not know such devices exist.

 

[John J.]

Some discussion of Elizondo's Orbs can be found here, https://www.metabunk.org/threads/elizondos-orbs.13636/

 

[JMartJr]

Now we have some never before mentioned AI for detecting real UFO pictures, surely thats a huge thing?

To be fair, could he be talking about an AI to spot PhotoShopped photos and the like? I could see something like that existing, and working fairly well, and passing that photo as a "real" picture -- not ruling on the content, but ruling that it has not been edited. Which makes sense, there's no need to edit a ceiling lamp reflected in a window, you can take pics like that in real life! Here's one I took!

OOOOooOOooOooooooOOOOOoOOoooooh! (Please read that in theremin.)

 

[Scaramanga]

there's no need to edit a ceiling lamp reflected in a window, you can take pics like that in real life! Here's one I took!

Never mind the ceiling lamp......you've got a portal to Beta Reticuli opening in your window. I presume that is wire mesh or something.

 

[JMartJr]

you've got a portal to Beta Reticuli opening in your window. I presume that is wire mesh or something.

Yeah, it was from a hotel window in Abu Dhabi, I am not sure if it was to cut the light/heat entering the building, or to protect the window from abrasion in a sandstorm, (0r both) but it was some sort of heavy mesh, notably thicker gauge than standard window screen in my part of the world. And it definitely made interesting patterns in photos!

 

[NorCal Dave]

But this is all highly speculative. There are several possibilities, and maybe some that have yet to be considered

He really reminds me of a guy I used to work with that I've mentioned before, Tim. He told Timmy Tales as we called them. He was from a Godforsaken mining town in Nevada, and while very athletic, by the time I knew him he was working as an unlicensed contractor, as he was unable to pass the State test.

But boy could he spin a yarn. The more entertaining, the more people at the bar would listen, so what probably started as nuggets of truth became ever wilder stories. A favorite was a stunt from his youth when he claimed to put "110% octan jet fuel in a little Honda 90 motorcycle and jumping it 200' over a pond, for which he and his buddy charged the neighbor kids to watch". He would tell this as completely true, and I think somewhere he either believed it or believed enough of it at the time of telling to sell it.

And just as Lue was in Intell, Tim was athletic and nutty enough to have tried something like that. There was a bit of credibility, at least as the storyteller. If no one challanged him, than the story stood as true. If I would point out for example, that there is no such thing as "110% octan jet fuel" and as jet fuel is more like diesel or kerosine and would make the Honda inoperable, he would respond in various ways. He might double down if he thought I wasn't sure of what I was saying. He might back pedal a bit and correct himself to a more realistic version. Not "jet fuel" but 110 octan racing gas. Maybe not quite 200', but a long way.

The stories got him attention, something he craved, he was the big man at the bar. If they were a little overblown sometimes, well so be it. Now with Lue, it's not a bunch of contractors at a bar listening, it's the national media, it's people in congress, it's Tom DeLong with an offer of a TV show and mostly it's a crowd of people desperate to believe and hear about UFOs. The stories don't just get him attention, they get him paid.

So, he tells them. Lots of them. Is he lying? Was Tim lying? Or just telling stories that may or may not be true that people want to hear. And if one story isn't true, well maybe they were mistaken, but did you hear about this one?

Maybe more pathetic than pathological?

 

[Ben Harris]

"There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No enemy can defeat it."

Tyrion Lannister

 

[FatPhil]

What this means is that there's a set of core motifs around which UFO stories are constructed: this is no longer avant garde, but an established genre that has become mostly predictable. In that universe, debunkers are actually a type of villain.

I have nothing to add apart from saying that that is one of the most beautiful and concise ways of expressing how I perceive the soap opera that I have apparently found myself part of. Thank you.

 

[MonkeeSage]

Not sure how to link this part "properly" without just re-chopping the chopped video.

Here is a part of that part of the the conference shared by Greenstreet
Source: https://x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1851273969422520382

Elizondo says (00:52)

Is it atmospheric anomaly, or something like that? I suppose so. But talk to some of the pilots and they'll tell you that's what they saw and they continue to see it.

For me that part is the most egregious. A backstory about pilots and implying he has talked to said pilots, seems to go beyond just mistake or credulity.

Maybe more pathetic than pathological?

I saw a clip posted by Greenstreet a couple weeks ago where Lue gives a completely made up etymology for the word angel.

Starting from 00:12:

Lue: Do you know where the word angel comes from?
Other person: Naw.
Lue: It comes from the Latin word anhelios.
Other person: Uh-huh...
Lue: Anhelios...
Other person: Sun...
Lue: Sun, or light or fire...
Other person: Uh-huh...
Lue: ...purity.

Source: https://x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1844786596257624246

Having studied Koine Greek a bit when I was younger I knew this was completely wrong. Links to entries from the Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English lexicon inline below.

The word angel comes from the Greek ἄγγελος (angelos) meaning "messenger", and the Latin form is angelus. "Anhelios" is is not a word in Latin or Greek at all. In Greek, not Latin, the word ἥλιος (helios) means "Sun" and has nothing to do with the word ἄγγελος.

I double-checked the online etymology dictionary which agrees.

"one of a class of spiritual beings, attendants and messengers of God," a c. 1300 fusion of Old English engel (with hard -g-) and Old French angele. Both are from Late Latin angelus, from Greek angelos, literally "messenger, envoy, one that announces," in the New Testament "divine messenger," which is possibly related to angaros "mounted courier," both from an unknown Oriental word (Watkins compares Sanskrit ajira- "swift;" Klein suggests Semitic sources).

Source: https://www.etymonline.com/word/angel

In the grand scheme it's not a huge deal that he got the etymology wrong (whether he invented it or is just repeating someone else's error), but it struck me that he is so confidently saying something completely wrong and which one could easily discover is wrong from two minutes of googling with no knowledge of Latin or Greek.

 

[FatPhil]

Lue: Anhelios...
Other person: Sun...

an- is the greek prefix for "without" or other negation (e.g. anaemic, anarchy, etc.). So even if it was from helios, it would have a parity flip.

The range of fields within which Lue is inexpert is seemingly boundless.

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

To be fair, could he be talking about an AI to spot PhotoShopped photos and the like? I could see something like that existing, and working fairly well, and passing that photo as a "real" picture -- not ruling on the content, but ruling that it has not been edited.

But that AI wouldn't have made any difference to what happened. The photo isn't photoshopped. An AI was needed to identify a lampshade.

Maybe it's still prototype cos no one's believing what it's telling them.

 

[MonkeeSage]

an- is the greek prefix for "without" or other negation (e.g. anaemic, anarchy, etc.). So even if it was from helios, it would have a parity flip.

Huh, I was aware of ἀ-, ἀν- used as alpha privatives in Koine but I had never came across any forms of the word ἀνήλιος (anhelois) -- but as seen there, it was in fact an uncommon word that meant "sunless" and was used by a handful of early poets as a metaphor for "the nether world." I should have checked before stating it was not a word. Lue might have some bigger problems than orbs if his angels are coming from anhelios.

 

[yoshy]

Does it appear to anyone else that the sentiment is turning against Lue on reddit? Every thread used to be 95% praise or defense of him, but after multiple stunts like this, there seems to be a lot more doubt and negativity regarding him.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Does it appear to anyone else that the sentiment is turning against Lue on reddit? Every thread used to be 95% praise or defense of him, but after multiple stunts like this, there seems to be a lot more doubt and negativity regarding him.

You tell me. I find reddit anyoing and not worth my time, at least in relation to UFOs. Maybe there's a useful sub-reddit on RZR mods I'd be more interested in, but I spend too much time here on MB as it is, so not looking at reddit.

Does that seem to be the trend, at least anecdotally to you? It would make sense if you compare him to various other UFO enthusiasts over the years. Many of them start with some sort of credibility that gets them into the scene. Once there, they rise, but just like a singer trying to crank out hit songs, they gotta keep it going. There has to the next thing. They stray ever further into more extreme claims as they play to a smaller but more rabid base.

Linda Howe and Ross Coulthart started as award winning TV journalists, even if on a smaller scale, before bringing that cred to the UFO world. As of now Coulthart claims there is big building somewhere hiding a huge, crashed UFO and Howe got booted from Coast to Coast AM she had become so fringe and credulous.

Dr. Travis Taylor is a legit scientist with multiple advanced degrees that got his start analyzing some samples and speculating on UFOs. More recently he's claimed cattle might be mutilated because the aliens use the cow blood as a lubricant or power source for their UFOs.

Chris Lehto's YouTube channel grew hugely once he started looking at UFOs, even more when he would insist birds or bugs where hypersonic UFOs. He eventually discovered the secret of universe, but unlike fellow discoverer of universal secrets Terrance Howard going on Joe Rogan, Lehto's family had him just go away for a while.

I'm not saying that's what Lue is doing, but he's pretty much played out his credibility and clout by this point. He was introduced, in 2017 as a legit Intelligence Officer that was running the US government's official UFO/UAP program. A sober career military guy, that sacrificed the end of his career to come forward and be a brave whistleblower. He helped run TTSA, which would push for disclosure.

Now looking back 7 years later, he had the Navey videos which, regardless of what one thinks of them, haven't really caused a paradigm shift. He had a TV show for TTSA, but it just rehashed old cases. His own recent book more or less confesses that ATTIP was just a side hustle, and while letting us know Lue is psychic who can remote view, offers no new UFO evidence. If anything, like his TV show, it largely just rehashed old UFO tropes like alien implants, with no evidence.

He went from the hero of a NYT cover piece blowing the lid off UFOs, to giving a talk to a couple of dozen people at a wine bar. Who pays to see Elizondo at a wine bar? People that are likely hardcore UFO (alien) believers and they want their money's worth. He's playing to smaller but more ardent crowd.

 

[yoshy]

You tell me. I find reddit anyoing and not worth my time, at least in relation to UFOs. Maybe there's a useful sub-reddit on RZR mods I'd be more interested in, but I spend too much time here on MB as it is, so not looking at reddit.

Niche communities like that are the one place reddit shines actually. Once a sub gets big enough to attract a lot of attention, the quality drops. Is this the RZR you mention? https://www.reddit.com/r/RZR/

Does that seem to be the trend, at least anecdotally to you?

I stopped checking in on r/UFOs regularly a while ago because it became so toxic and cult-like around Lue. But the few top threads I've seen recently have a lot of highly upvoted comments criticizing Lue, which you would NEVER see a year or two ago. So anecdotally to me, yes, but I haven't had my pulse on that community much in a while.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Is this the RZR you mention? https://www.reddit.com/r/RZR/

Thanks, Ill check that out!

 

[Mick West]

I stopped checking in on r/UFOs regularly a while ago because it became so toxic and cult-like around Lue. But the few top threads I've seen recently have a lot of highly upvoted comments criticizing Lue, which you would NEVER see a year or two ago. So anecdotally to me, yes, but I haven't had my pulse on that community much in a while.

I have a similar impression. Normally on r/UFOs you'd see a lot of pro-NHI posts at the top of a thread (sorted for "Best", the default), but with the recent posts about Elizondo, the critics seem to dominate. This thread, for example:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ggi5gl/luis_elizondo_apologizes_for_presenting_fake_ufo/


Top-voted comment:

rUFOs has always had a healthy chunk of skepticism; it was just in the minority, so the more hopeful posts tended to dominate. That changed for this aspect (Elizondo) but will it pan out?

 

[yoshy]

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ggi5gl/luis_elizondo_apologizes_for_presenting_fake_ufo/

WOW, that thread is brutal towards Lue. Using the same sorting as you, here are the top comments. Net upvotes/downvotes score in parentheses.

The way this got into his hands and the fact he basically did zero vetting of the photo really is... not great.
(+300)

I'm having a hard time understanding how a person with his credentials and experience did not vet this photograph before presenting it.
(+50)

This guy is supposed to know better. This guy is supposed to have the goods.

This is brutally compromising. Debunkers couldn't have staged it better.
(+895)

(LOL)

I mean thanks and all, but I canceled my ticket to one of his speaking events because of this. It was a 2.5 hour drive and I was gonna do it.

But I'm not gonna go all that way just to be shown a lamp because Mr. Classified somehow has the same boomer brain as my facebook grandparents
(+298)

This, the backyard thing, and the "remote viewer" abilities. 3 Strikes you're out.

It's so hard to hold onto this stuff hoping these people aren't phonies and it is so easy for them to dash it to pieces.

Liars and charlatans.
(+188)

I am really enjoying this community waking up to Elizondo.

Same thing as Corbell, this guy claims to sit on images for YEARS to confirm their accuracy, and then within a single day of revealing it, is debunked.

It's unforgivable. Zero excuse why he was incapable of debunking this earlier, as even average people can see the photo and go errr that's clearly NOT a UFO. And all it took was a reverse image search. Do we really believe one of the highest intelligence officers 'made a mistake' like this? Dude has been caught red-handed trying to manipulate people. There is no way he didn't know this was fake, that's why he can come out happily playing innocent victim.

Do you really think this is just a mistake and isn't indicative of the wider reality? Dude is claiming to have UFO videos on his civilian phone lmao. I bet if it's all shown it will be debunked.

Now ask why this guy whose family lived with UAPs for years I their home never took a single photo of that.

e: Oh, and remember Elizondo ran the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. His job was literally to identify aerospace objects lmfao
(+102)

Many of these comments aren't simply criticizing this particular photo; they are criticizing Lue himself as either incompetent or deliberate misinformation!

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I'm working on a few things require a lot more written content so that's my focus right now, but I can pull some data off reddit and some other SM platforms and run them through analysis tools to do a quantitative semantic analysis at least. Thankfully that's all stuff that's largely automated but takes a tid bit still to process.
Just based off browsing though I would concur in both a) right now there is a heavy negative semantic skew against Elizondo (I'd wager on a +1 -1 scale would come somewhere above -0.30) and b) there does appear to be a trend (including before this) of people "coming to be" with Elizondo, although there's definitely an infliction point here where the specific negative semantically skewed commentary has increased exponentially.

For a proper trend analysis we'll have to give it a week or two and would have to pull more data for an updated assessment but it's too early to really do a proper trend analysis right now. Most we could do is predictive but with the sorts of micro-IEs these communities are it's really hard to do that predictively without tools that cost a lot of money to run.

 

[yoshy]

I'm working on a few things require a lot more written content so that's my focus right now, but I can pull some data off reddit and some other SM platforms and run them through analysis tools to do a quantitative semantic analysis at least. Thankfully that's all stuff that's largely automated but takes a tid bit still to process.

I love this idea! If you do get the time to do this, please share a basic writeup on your methodology (e.g. model used, data selection), and even share the code on github if you'd like. Seriously, I love these projects! (@Mick West we need the nerd emoji )

 

[NoParty]

Posts

Lue...pretty much played out his credibility and clout by this point.

Does it appear to anyone else that the sentiment is turning against Lue on reddit?

...with the recent posts about Elizondo, the critics seem to dominate.

...they are criticizing Lue himself as either incompetent or deliberate misinformation!

As one who is positively astonished by the depth of Elizondo's incompetence
(& almost certainly intentional deception), reading these absolutely these delights me!
It makes me wish we had a "Dancing on the tabletop!" emoji "like" rating...

 

[jarlrmai]

I wouldn't get too excited.

There are those that essentially believe that Lue is a "disinfo" agent in fact almost any debunkabled UFO video that makes it to Reddit where the debunk is mostly undeniable often gets classed as disinfo posted to make the "movement" look stupid.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I love this idea! If you do get the time to do this, please share a basic writeup on your methodology (e.g. model used, data selection), and even share the code on github if you'd like. Seriously, I love these projects! (@Mick West we need the nerd emoji )

Just to answer some up front, I'll have to look which tools are best for the data selection but I'd be taking it predominately off Reddit, I might be able to pull a good chunk from Twitter also but their system is really crappy. I'll reference in there all the methodologies and specific tools I used and the sequencing of it all. Noting also these would be platform specific and not necessarily reflective of say, so, any eventual results should not be taken as an "overall" community thing outside active participation in the specific platforms assessed.

Most of it would not be coding done myself either but other tools I have access too (many you could all use also too, bit iffy on using paid stuff right now), so, probably won't be a place for it on GitHub, but whatever tools I end up using for it there'll be links for folks to access and toy with if they wish also. Just may require a bit of learning on how to use it.
I do have another thread in mind but its intent is more research oriented than casual discussion so I haven't put it up yet, trying to make sure I have all the right data for presentation and the whole write up done properly & in a more formal style. I planned on offering some similar data on that thread also, so, this would go on it for sure. I probably won't make a breakoff thread just for this part since it's subject-specific to this, but, it will be posted on this thread once I'm able to get it ready.

 

[yoshy]

Just to answer some up front, I'll have to look which tools are best for the data selection but I'd be taking it predominately off Reddit, I might be able to pull a good chunk from Twitter also but their system is really crappy. I'll reference in there all the methodologies and specific tools I used and the sequencing of it all. Noting also these would be platform specific and not necessarily reflective of say, so, any eventual results should not be taken as an "overall" community thing outside active participation in the specific platforms assessed.

Most of it would not be coding done myself either but other tools I have access too (many you could all use also too, bit iffy on using paid stuff right now), so, probably won't be a place for it on GitHub, but whatever tools I end up using for it there'll be links for folks to access and toy with if they wish also. Just may require a bit of learning on how to use it.
I do have another thread in mind but its intent is more research oriented than casual discussion so I haven't put it up yet, trying to make sure I have all the right data for presentation and the whole write up done properly & in a more formal style. I planned on offering some similar data on that thread also, so, this would go on it for sure. I probably won't make a breakoff thread just for this part since it's subject-specific to this, but, it will be posted on this thread once I'm able to get it ready.

Luckily with Reddit, there are already some python libraries for pulling data. I've seen similar projects in the past, and I know you can select specific subreddits. (Though I haven't used any of these myself.) I know Twitter used to be easy to pull data from, but I'm not sure if that's still true after they changed their API under Musk.

Feel free to message me or start a brainstorming thread!

 

[Ben Harris]

He has a fake Billy Meier photo on his publicity material. He is a grifter and it's slowly becoming more obvious.

 

[Rum]

I'm working on a few things require a lot more written content so that's my focus right now, but I can pull some data off reddit and some other SM platforms and run them through analysis tools to do a quantitative semantic analysis at least. Thankfully that's all stuff that's largely automated but takes a tid bit still to process.
Just based off browsing though I would concur in both a) right now there is a heavy negative semantic skew against Elizondo (I'd wager on a +1 -1 scale would come somewhere above -0.30) and b) there does appear to be a trend (including before this) of people "coming to be" with Elizondo, although there's definitely an infliction point here where the specific negative semantically skewed commentary has increased exponentially.

For a proper trend analysis we'll have to give it a week or two and would have to pull more data for an updated assessment but it's too early to really do a proper trend analysis right now. Most we could do is predictive but with the sorts of micro-IEs these communities are it's really hard to do that predictively without tools that cost a lot of money to run.

Intriguing idea. It'd also be interesting to see how closely the Elizondo trend matches trends related to other UFOlogy celebs like Corbell focused around the time of the Jellyfish vid, or even another high profile pseudoscience personality like Graham Hancock around the time of the podcast episode he did opposite Flint Dibble.

Not that I'm trying to give you homework!

 

[JMartJr]

He has a fake Billy Meier photo on his publicity material.

To be absolutely bend-over-backwards fair to him, that is a ad poster/flier probably put together by whoever his publicist for speaking engagements is. They may not be as choosy about images as they might be, after all their goal is to get butts in seats, not to present UFO evidence. (That may be Elizondo's over-riding goal as well, of course!) Now if he is using those Meier images (there appear to be three, two of which are the same image, in the poster -- see below) then THAT is definitely on him.

He is a grifter and it's slowly becoming more obvious.

I think you are right, I'm just not sure the poster is strong evidence of it.

The poster:

 

[NorCal Dave]

I think you are right, I'm just not sure the poster is strong evidence of it.

A "yeah, but".

Yeah but, the poster still lists him as "The Former Head of the Pentagon's UFO Investigation Unit." Even his own book says the only thing he was the head of was AATIP, and AATIP was his and Stratton's own little UFO club. Not a Pentagon unit.

Given that this thread is about him presenting a ceiling lamp as a "real UFO" I think it's likely he has no idea what a Billy Meier photo is, but he does know what an official Pentagon program is.

 

[owntheissue]

Given that this thread is about him presenting a ceiling lamp as a "real UFO" I think it's likely he has no idea what a Billy Meier photo is, but he does know what an official Pentagon program is.

The question then is how did a guy with such poor reasoning and decision making make it to GS13 in a prestigous role without being predated by ambitious colleagues?
If you are loose with the truth, poor at analysis, not very shrewd or prone to invocation of magic - senior intelligence roles can be hard to come by.

One possibility is that they needed a SAP OPSEC specialist, (who was also thick skinned and "patriotic") - who would pretend to be a UFO insider as part of a two pronged perception management campaign where "NHI Threat" and "nothing to see here" messages are disseminated simultaneously from credible sources.

Allows Lue to be a "hero" (still working for uncle Sam), explains his apparent "UFO novice" approach (just repeating Puthoff et al.'s cover briefings ) and explains why people like Mellon (former SAPOC interface and MIC lobbyist) ) seem to be operating without the usual fear of whistleblower retribution.

Reasons why they would do this - especially in the form of an am-dram kabuki theatre style presentation- are anyones guess.

 

[Mendel]

The question then is how did a guy with such poor reasoning and decision making make it to GS13 in a prestigous role without being predated by ambitious colleagues?
If you are loose with the truth, poor at analysis, not very shrewd or prone to invocation of magic - senior intelligence roles can be hard to come by.

you can be smart and still adhere to an irrational belief that'll cloud your judgment when that belief comes into play. (romantic love is the prime example of this.)

One possibility is that they needed a SAP OPSEC specialist, (who was also thick skinned and "patriotic") - who would pretend to be a UFO insider as part of a two pronged perception management campaign where "NHI Threat" and "nothing to see here" messages are disseminated simultaneously from credible sources.

that's a conspiracy theory, with no evidence to support it
and I don't see what the purpose of it would be if that campaign existed

 

[elvenwear]

Then, as people are so fond of acronyms, lets have IDWII.

Dear Wotan, please let this take off. I say this without irony. It is the perfect encapsulation of the term UFO and UAP. It evades the murky line between UFO/UAP and alien life and it makes a clear definition embedded in ignorance and nothing else. UFO insists an object is flying which implies a pilot. Object implies something solid, rather than an optical effect or swamp gas. UAP defines a phenomenon which has magical or mysterious connotations. Rotating glare, for example, is unworthy of these connotations.

With IDWII, the term flying, object and phenomenon are absent. The entire term speaks to nothing but ignorance, which is the most honest thing we can say when confronted with an image or by footage that simply cannot be identified.

I'm still trying to figure out whether human intelligence exists.

According to Eric Idle, there's bugger all down here on earth.

 

[elvenwear]

I'd never ever heard the term NHI up until 6 months or so ago. Now its everywhere, just as UAP slipped into the vocabulary around 2017. The trouble with NHI ( Non-human Intelligence ) is that it implies some source of UFOs ( sorry to use archaic terms ) other than 'alien'. And that fits right in with the conspiracy theory that its all angels and demons....which is essentially what Elizondo, Tom Delonge, and others believe. So I'm rather cynical about who benefits from all these new-fangled acronyms.

If an object is unidentified you can't rightly call it a flying object, so UAP is a more accurate term than UFO. Nevertheless, I suspect the term UFO has also been abandoned because of the kooky 1950s connotations it has and UAP is hoped the have the more credible connotations of the Navy UFO videos.

NHI is a term which bites off a lot more than it can chew. Supposing you had a craft with capabilities beyond what we knew. How would you know it wasn't a foreign drone? You can only rightly call something NHI if you have evidence of non-human life. Because of this, I think you are correct to consider it a propaganda term.

The only benefit to using this term is that it also encapsulates birds which could make for some amusing retorts to ufologists.

Cults often seem to work because they gradually ramp up the pressure on reasonableness. People gradually leave as the pressure increases, but those that remain have a stronger and stronger belief because they need strong belief to look past the nonsense. Pressure increases more and more leave. Usually, the cults collapse under pressure, but some people will have become hardened into diamonds of unreason, and so remain trapped in belief.

The Scientology organization was notorious for taking people on a very slow gradient (they even use the term gradient in their private propaganda). The longer someone is on that gradient, the longer it takes them to leave. That's why exit councillors frequently rank Scientology among the most destructive cults.

 

[JMartJr]

I wouldn't get too excited.

There are those that essentially believe that Lue is a "disinfo" agent in fact almost any debunkabled UFO video that makes it to Reddit where the debunk is mostly undeniable often gets classed as disinfo posted to make the "movement" look stupid.

"The Movement" could avoid that by not being so credulous.

 

[Ann K]

NHI is a term which bites off a lot more than it can chew.

It's also a term which describes the cat who runs to her food bowl when she hears the sound of a can opener.

 

[Mendel]

It's also a term which describes the cat who runs to her food bowl when she hears the sound of a can opener.

I'm pretty sure that's just conditioning.