Elizondo's Orbs

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

I was shocked to find that a lot of my colleagues and I began experiencing firsthand some of these orbs at our homes.

It's like the crew of Most Haunted all living with ghosts, talking about their ghosts, but not considering making an episode in their house.

 

[elvenwear]

Does Elizondo ever provide citations for any of his claims?

Does he cite any papers or research to back these claims?

On his claims about the caudate putamen, he offers no academic citations. His sources are Garry and 'some researchers.'

From pages 133-134 of 312 (emphasis mine).

After digging through files, Garry noticed something else. All 105 of the patients were high-functioning and had high IQs. All had an overdeveloped part of the brain known as the caudate-putamen. This is the area of the brain that many researchers have begun to associate with intuition, though the link has been proposed by some scientists as far back as the 1960s. Some researchers had also correlated the size of one's caudate-putamen with one's intelligence, but of course this is a controversial claim that many researchers still disagree with. Nevertheless, we all have caudate-putamens in our brains, but Garry theorized that people with this kind of enhanced structure might be exquisitely adept at sizing up a situation and drawing conclusions from very sparse information. In other words, some people with a larger caudate-putamen were like organic supercomputers, able to process more data than the average person and be more perceptive to things most people wouldn't or couldn't perceive. Hearing that reminded me of some words I had heard said in the past about talented remote viewers. Remote viewers were said to demonstrate "extraordinary judgment," an ability to retain and synthesize vast amounts of data, and were often classified as "sense makers," possessing an uncanny predictive foresight. Garry's observation was the first finding. It had nothing to do with the medical problems these people were having. It was just an interesting note about how their brains functioned.

John J's post on the thread Errors in Luis Elizondo's UFO Book "Imminent" has this post which is critical of the use of the term 'caudate putamen.' His post is here. My post in the same thread here references the NIH website which does not support his claim.

There are no academic citations of any sort in the book. The only references that point outside of the book are the following:-
- Some links to external websites (official military and government links and one link to an article by Hal Putoff on researchgate)
- Emails between Elizondo and others where AATIP is mentioned (which he uses as proof AATIP really existed)
- Quotes from political figures (eg Clinton, Obama, Rubio) and senior people in defence and intelligence.

 

[JMartJr]

Other times, we'd be outside, grilling or hanging out near our koi pond with neighbors, when an orb would appear randomly, linger for a few moments, then mosey over toward the trees on the edges of our property. Our neighbors witnessed this too. It got to the point where neighbors would sometimes joke, "Is this one of our government's secret programs you are working on, Lue?" Laughing uncomfortably, I'd think to myself, You have no idea how close to the truth you are.

Reality check, please: if true , does this sort of imply that either Mr. Elizondo's neighbors are a bit psychic, or he was a bit loose-lipped about his super secret job to an extent that seems out of character for an intelligence guy? Or am I reading too much into it?

Of course, if the story is made up, that does not apply.

(I don't believe in psychic neighbors, but people leaking info and people making up stories are both confirmed to exist, also confirmed to exist is me reading too much into something! Hence, I asked! ^_^)

 

[Ann K]

Reality check, please: if true , does this sort of imply that either Mr. Elizondo's neighbors are a bit psychic, or he was a bit loose-lipped about his super secret job to an extent that seems out of character for an intelligence guy? Or am I reading too much into it?

He is bragging about his own importance in his book. To me, that makes it likely that he has similarly bragged to the neighbors, but as to being "loose-lipped", I think that would depend upon WHEN he did it. And you're right, all bets are off if it didn't really happen "it", being the orbs, the neighbors, and/or the entire discussion.

 

[FatPhil]

The problem is though, that his kids and wife (and neighbours?) all saw it. At least, that is what he says...

"said somebody saw" is way worse than "saw" as evidence. And "saw" is generally unreliable.

 

[Ravi]

"said somebody saw" is way worse than "saw" as evidence. And "saw" is generally unreliable.

Agree. There's a whole dynamic range of reliability. I mean: "I know a guy, who's sister has a boyfriend who's father has worked in a shop where the delivery boy was a brother to a girl who heard about a guy seeing a ufo. All facts!"

 

[Ben Harris]

There appear to be more holes in Elizondo's story than in Bob Lazar's.

 

[MapperGuy]

"said somebody saw" is way worse than "saw" as evidence. And "saw" is generally unreliable.

And neither Elizondo, or his family members, or his neighbors tried to take pictures of them? or make videos of them? Or invite other neighbors to see at them. Nobody called Oprah? Its not just the lack of pictures, its the apparent lack of any effort, by anybody, to record these events in any way that suggests this is all just a tall tale.

 

[elvenwear]

And neither Elizondo, or his family members, or his neighbors tried to take pictures of them? or make videos of them? Or invite other neighbors to see at them. Nobody called Oprah? Its not just the lack of pictures, its the apparent lack of any effort, by anybody, to record these events in any way that suggests this is all just a tall tale.

I wonder how his children will feel about being presented as witnesses once they reach adulthood.

 

[Mendel]

I can see Elizondo fearing for his reputation in the Department if he went full ghost hunter in his home. We know he invented the AATIP moniker to distance himself from the Skinwalker Ranch project.

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

went full ghost hunter in his home.

But he doesn't even go 0.1% "ghost hunter" in his home.

It's not so much about getting these things on video as so many people seem upset about. Supposedly he believes...

we had numerous reports of negative biological effects associated with UAP encounters, especially orbs. The injuries sustained seemed to stem from some sort of directed-energy exposure, almost like radiation.

.. so does he attempt to get some kind of readings from his orbs to determine if they are safe? A geiger counter? Anything all all? Not that he tells us.

Maybe there really was a ton of study on these things that he can't tell us about between his blood going cold at worry of severe biological effects happening to his family and the orbs just being a nuisance around the house.

Or maybe not.

 

[AllTheQuestionsToday]

I can see Elizondo fearing for his reputation in the Department if he went full ghost hunter in his home. We know he invented the AATIP moniker to distance himself from the Skinwalker Ranch project.

What evidence exists that Elizondo "invented" the AATIP moniker given that Harry Reids 2009 letter to the DOD talks about AATIP and says to add this 'new' guy Elizondo to the program?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...eid,_then_US_Senate_Majority_Leader,_2009.pdf

 

[Mendel]

What evidence exists that Elizondo "invented" the AATIP moniker given that Harry Reids 2009 letter to the DOD talks about AATIP and says to add this 'new' guy Elizondo to the program?

since that letter is what it was invented for, I'd say it's pretty good evidence in and of itself

do you want to claim it was the Senator's idea?

 

[Ben Harris]

But he doesn't even go 0.1% "ghost hunter" in his home.

It's not so much about getting these things on video as so many people seem upset about. Supposedly he believes...

.. so does he attempt to get some kind of readings from his orbs to determine if they are safe? A geiger counter? Anything all all? Not that he tells us.

Maybe there really was a ton of study on these things that he can't tell us about between his blood going cold at worry of severe biological effects happening to his family and the orbs just being a nuisance around the house.

Or maybe not.

Big trend on social media right now. Seems every example of lens flare is a possible orb. Madness.

 

[Giddierone]

Michael Persinger wrote quite a lot about how geological effects, magnetic field distortions, can produce all kinds of odd perceptions, including globular light effects that move or blink-out suddenly. I'm not sure if these are demonstrable or have been recorded in some way, but it seems less of a stretch than invoking some malevolent NHI using magical surveillence tech-orbs.

[Bold added]

The Effects on Human Life Forms
Perhaps the most complex bioelectrical system of all is man. Within a small three-dimensional locus called the body, unfathomable ensembles of electromagnetic circuits exist. These circuits are correlated with experiences of consciousness, memory, perception and all the various properties labeled "human." Typically, human bioelectrical field patterns are displayed in a systematic manner and consciousness and thought flow in a perceived orderly manner. But even this system is not infallible. Experiments by Leduc (see Herin, 1968) and more recently by others, indicate that small currents induced across the scalp can produce "'dreamy-like" states, episodes of paralysis, or intervals of unconsciousness. Certain combinations of electric current polarities and intensities seem to influence the "d.c. battery" or steady potentials of the brain. Ironically, one of the most electrically unstable parts of the human brain is the hippocampus, an important component of the emotion and memory circuit. If this system is stimulated, even in the "waking" state, the person is inundated by stored i images (real and unrea}) that he or she cannot control.

The stimulating currents are not very large in magnitude, and could quite possibly be induced by transient electrical fields allegedly produced by substructure geological stresses. The implications of this supposition are immense in scope. Think of the many instances of Fortean events and UFO observations where the observer was paralyzed, or "blacked out" when he closely approached the luminous blob or vice versa. Remember the different forces that have not only stopped automobiles, but "knocked down" large numbers of men. These would be instances of pure and blatant assaults upon the brain's electrical system.
...
But the effects would not stop at gross distortions in bioelectrical systems; more subtle modifications in "thought" and perception could exist. With this unnatural stimulation of the memory areas in the brain, the person could vividly and emotionally experience his stored images; he could richly perceive the nightmares and crude monsters normally suppressed from consciousness except during dreams. A human being, under this condition, could experience a "waking nightmare" of fear inducing stimuli. They would seem quite real, quite material, for there would be no reason for the person to think otherwise. Consequently, what the person sees could be shaped by his expectations, what he has heard or imagined or seen in movies. Each person might perceive the same'stimulus in different ways. Where one person sees a globular UFO with men inside, another person might see a metallic ship. When one person sees a giant, beastly humanoid with-fangs, another might see it with a hideous, wolf-like face. There could be combinations of animals in the monsters seen. Examples of these instances have been reported.
...
We are only beginning to learn about the thought distortions that can occur when the appropriate electric and magnetic field parameters are applied.

Characteristically, at field strengths sufficient to produce the luminosity, the phenomenon would be transient and shorterned. If it were mobile, that is the subsurface stress forces were in a dynamic state of displacement, then the luminous object would move away. Alternatively, when the high electric fields had discharged through the intense ionization, the phenomena would be seen to just "disappear." Depending upon a number of local factors, the event might quickly "fade away" or "blink out like a light" when the field level fell below luminogenic potentials.

No doubt the presentation of these unusual stimuli would be interpreted within an anthropomorphic framework, even though the kinetic operations would be based on ordinary physical principles. Approach of the luminosity towards a person standing upon a conductive hill would be interpreted as an "attack." Stationary displays over the luminogenic source could be interpreted as "surveillance." Movement of the observer's car along the line of the phenomenon's movement might be reported as a "chase." It must be remembered that less than a century ago lightning displays were considered acts of gods, St. Elmo's fire was diagnosed as the presence of demons, and "ball lightning" was interpreted within the contexts of "disembodied spirits." Within the comfortable framework of an ad hoc perspective, these explanations seem absurd, now.

Source: Space -Time Transients and | Unusual Events (1977)
https://archive.org/details/michael...Transients and Unusual Events/mode/2up?q=glob

 

[Ann K]

Michael Persinger wrote quite a lot about how geological effects, magnetic field distortions, can produce all kinds of odd perceptions, including globular light effects that move or blink-out suddenly. I'm not sure if these are demonstrable or have been recorded in some way, but it seems less of a stretch than invoking some malevolent NHI using magical surveillence tech-orbs.

There's a Wikipedia article about "earthquake lights", but they would appear to have a much wider field than your garden-variety household "orbs".

One of the first records of earthquake lights is from the 869 Jōgan earthquake, described as "strange lights in the sky" in Nihon Sandai Jitsuroku. The lights are reported to appear while an earthquake is occurring, although there are reports of lights before or after earthquakes, such as reports concerning the 1975 Kalapana earthquake. They are reported to have shapes similar to those of the auroras, with a white to bluish hue, but occasionally they have been reported having a wider color spectrum. The luminosity is reported to be visible for several seconds, but has also been reported to last for tens of minutes. Accounts of viewable distance from the epicenter varies: in the 1930 Idu earthquake, lights were reported up to 110 km (70 mi) from the epicenter. Earthquake lights were reportedly spotted in Tianshui, Gansu, approximately 400 km (250 mi) north-northeast of the 2008 Sichuan earthquake's epicenter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_light

 

[Giddierone]

There's a Wikipedia article about "earthquake lights"

I think his argument is more about magnetic fields causing perceptual anomalies in our electrical brains / senses rather than aurora-sized light shows.

 

[John J.]

Michael Persinger wrote quite a lot about how geological effects, magnetic field distortions, can produce all kinds of odd perceptions, including globular light effects that move or blink-out suddenly. I'm not sure if these are demonstrable or have been recorded in some way

Persinger and his transients generated a lot of interest. Unfortunately his theories regarding geological stresses and magnetic field effects have been very difficult to test in the field. No predictive validity has been found AFAIK (e.g., "There are known geological stresses in this area, so we'll see more reports of ghosts/ UFOs/ orbs").

Like the proposed links between geomagnetic storms and, well, pretty much every aspect of human life (discussed on this thread, Claim: Fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field (geomagnetic storms) causes a myriad of different health problems) the majority opinion at present seems to be that the magnetic fields invoked by Persinger are much too weak to directly influence any part of the brain or sense organs.

Persinger considered the temporal contiguity of reports of unidentified luminous phenomena preceding local seismicity due to injections of fluids a quasi-experimental support for the hypothesis. Alternative models, developed by Persinger and David Vares, were quantified for interaction between quantum values and specific magnitude earthquakes, global climate variations, interactions with population densities, discrete energies as mediators of disease, and processes by which human cognition could be covertly affected by Schumann Resonances and geomagnetic activity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Persinger. Study enough datasets, you might find a chance correlation sooner or later.
(To be honest, I don't know what some of the phrases above are meant to mean, but maybe it's the Wikipedia author's fault).

To demonstrate that magnetic fields could influence human cognition, Persinger experimented with the "Koren helmet", widely referred to as the "God helmet" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet. Persinger claimed that very weak fluctuating magnetic fields, generated in a helmet and placed over the temporal regions of the head, caused the wearer to sense "a presence" or have other strange sensations or paranormal/ spiritual experiences.
There was extensive media and (for a while) scientific interest. And attempts to replicate the experiment.

A Swedish team borrowed the helmets, and protocols, actually used by Persinger and Koren;
Granqvist, P., Fredrikson, M., Unge, P. et al.,
"Sensed presence and mystical experiences are predicted by suggestibility, not by the application of transcranial weak complex magnetic fields", Neuroscience Letters 379 (1), 2005
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304394004013473?via=ihub.

From their abstract:

Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) with weak (micro Tesla) complex waveform fields have been claimed to evoke the sensed presence of a sentient being in up to 80% in the general population. These findings have had a questionable neurophysiological foundation as the fields are approximately six orders of magnitude weaker than ordinary TMS fields.

...We found no evidence for any effects of the magnetic fields, neither in the entire group, nor in individuals high in suggestibility. Because the personality characteristics significantly predicted outcomes, suggestibility may account for previously reported effects. Our results strongly question the earlier claims of experiential effects of weak magnetic fields.

Crucially, Granqvist and colleagues argue, entirely correctly, that the magnetic fields generated by the God helmet are far too weak to penetrate the cranium and influence neurons within. Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) uses field strengths of around 1.5 tesla in order to induce currents strong enough to depolarise neurons through the skull and cause them to fire. Persinger's apparatus, on the other hand has a strength of around 1 millitesla. To give you some context, that's 5000 times weaker than a typical fridge magnet. Granqvist argues that there is simply no way that this apparatus is having any meaningful effect on the brain...

"Neuroscience for the soul", Craig Aaen-Stockdale, 04 July 2012, The Psychologist
https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/neuroscience-soul

One published study supported Persinger's findings, Tinoca, C.A.,, Ortiz, J.P.L.,
"Magnetic Stimulation of the Temporal Cortex: A Partial "God Helmet" Replication Study", Journal of Consciousness Exploration & Research 5 (3), 2014. Only 20 subjects, their religious faith is listed: Curiously 4 are listed as "spiritualist" or "tendency to spiritualism" (there is a separate descriptor of "spiritualistic") and only 6 Catholic (including a "Nonpracticing Catholic. Spiritualistic"). I suspect this was not a representative sample of the Brazilian population, unless the researchers recruited people attending seances. https://jcer.com/index.php/jcj/article/viewFile/361/386

A perhaps unexpected problem for Persinger's Koren helmet findings is that similar-ish findings of strange experiences have been made by teams using the helmet, who didn't actually turn it on.
And it turns out you can get the same findings if you use a completely sham placebo helmet but tell the subject it's a "God helmet", and you've turned it on:
"An EEG Study on the Effects of Induced Spiritual Experiences on Somatosensory Processing and Sensory Suppression",
Michiel van Elk, Journal for the Cognitive Science of Religion 2 (2), 2015 https://journal.equinoxpub.com/JCSR/article/view/10693;
"Exceptional Experiences Following Exposure to a Sham "God Helmet": Evidence for Placebo, Individual Difference, and Time of Day Influences", Simmonds-Moore,C., Rice, D., O'Gwin, C., Hopkins, R., Imagination, Cognition and Personality 39 (1) 2017
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0276236617749185

Using kit and code borrowed from Persinger himself, Granqvist and colleagues could not reproduce his effects. They did, however, show that subjects' scores correlated with their suggestibility. In a biting critique they argue that Persinger's experiments weren't properly double-blinded, subjects' expectations were biased before the experiments and that the items on Persinger's questionnaire were arbitrary and idiosyncratic (Granqvist et al., 2005).

"Neuroscience for the soul", link as above.

The findings that placebo helmets "induce" strange perceptions as effectively as a Koren helmet strongly support Granqvist et al.'s concerns about Persinger's double-blinding.

Persinger's specific areas of interest- geological stresses and (very weak) magnetic fields having profound effects on human cognition, probably via the temporal lobes- haven't really progressed much in recent years (Persinger died in 2018), and are arguably no longer seen as mainstream science. It must be unlikely that magnetic influence on the temporal lobes explain orbs.

 

[Giddierone]

Thanks @John J. Great info.
There's also the problem of the claim that Elizondo and his family/neighbours all saw the same thing at the same time.

 

[Ann K]

Thanks @John J. Great info.
There's also the problem of the claim that Elizondo and his family/neighbours all saw the same thing at the same time.

At this time, it's only an uncorroborated claim, as is Elizondo's entire talk of orbs in the house. In other words, maybe we're trying to explain something without knowing whether there really IS something that needs to be explained.

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

The classification of these orbs really varies quite a bit. There are different colors and sizes.

Isn't this like saying the classification of humans varies quite a bit?

Cos there are different colours and sizes of humans.

The whole problem is that there ISN'T any classification of orbs! They are just orbs.

 

[jdog]

Isn't this like saying the classification of humans varies quite a bit?

Cos there are different colours and sizes of humans.

The whole problem is that there ISN'T any classification of orbs! They are just orbs.

That's the issue with the whole topic, though, isn't it? People aren't precise about what they see in any useful manner. You say "UFO," people think "saucer." People see a saucer-shaped heat signature on video, they think "alien craft." Someone records a pinpoint light in the sky and calls it an "orb" and the next person imagines it's a clearly delineated sphere, not a couple of smeary pixels.

Two people on an Argentine oil tanker see "orange lights erupt from the ocean and move in various directions at high speed" according to headlines and people start imagining anything from Biblical angels on flaming chariots to glowing orbs to whatever, when the documented description of "stars that moved in a rectilinear and crossed manner, appearing and disappearing at regular intervals" just as easily fits Starlink flares on the ocean horizon.

 

[FatPhil]

That's the issue with the whole topic, though, isn't it? People aren't precise about what they see in any useful manner. You say "UFO," people think "saucer." People see a saucer-shaped heat signature on video, they think "alien craft." Someone records a pinpoint light in the sky and calls it an "orb" and the next person imagines it's a clearly delineated sphere, not a couple of smeary pixels.

Two people on an Argentine oil tanker see "orange lights erupt from the ocean and move in various directions at high speed" according to headlines and people start imagining anything from Biblical angels on flaming chariots to glowing orbs to whatever, when the documented description of "stars that moved in a rectilinear and crossed manner, appearing and disappearing at regular intervals" just as easily fits Starlink flares on the ocean horizon.

This is why I will often stress that what remains included for discussion after evidence is evaluated, or a description analysed, isn't the important thing, it is what is *rejected* by the evidence that makes it useful. Anything that does not reject the mundane remains, statistically, little more than evidence for the mundane.

 

[JMartJr]

This is why I will often stress that what remains included for discussion after evidence is evaluated, or a description analysed, isn't the important thing, it is what is *rejected* by the evidence that makes it useful. Anything that does not reject the mundane remains, statistically, little more than evidence for the mundane.

And it is worth noting from time to time, for the benefit of those who don't plan to read every thread on MB, extraordinary "inexplicable" claims can be and ARE generated by mundane things.

Each time a "best orb picture ever" is found to be a butterfly, a tic tac filmed from a passenger plane over Lake Michigan is shown to be another plane also flying over Lake Michigan or a formation of green pyramids is shown to be a couple of stars, it proves again that a case of something inexplicable being observed or even filmed can turn out to be very explicable, with the thing seen/photographed being something extremely ordinary and common.*

Not sure that is what has happened in this particular case, this case being so totally evidence-free we are likely to never know unless Mr. Elizondo eventually puts some evidence out for out to look at. Until then, all we really have is speculation about mundane causes like medical issues or the story being just made up, or extraordinary causes like ghost UFO orbs followed him home from work. I know which way I'd bet.

*Referenced cases:
Butterfly: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...-photo-of-orb-captured-by-photographer.13182/
Lake Michigan plane: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...-photo-of-orb-captured-by-photographer.13182/
Stars: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/pyramid-ufos-in-night-vision-footage-are-bokeh.11695/ and
Source: https://youtu.be/pbxtTEWczRk

 

[Ann K]

They are just orbs.

Orbs / circles / spheres / blobs / lights / marbles / round things ...
I really wish they'd stop calling them "orbs" as if that is a particular defined object.

 

[deirdre]

I really wish they'd stop calling them "orbs" as if that is a particular defined object.

at least COulthart asked "what do you mean by orb?" the answer was "small, little, spherical" (<obviously she doesnt know what a basketball looks like as Elizondo called it basketball size. maybe he was counting a glow glare she didnt see.)

 

[Giddierone]

I've misplaced the reference for this...will update at some point.

 

[MapperGuy]

Big trend on social media right now. Seems every example of lens flare is a possible orb. Madness.

On the positive side there are a LOT of people pointing their iPhones at the skies these days. If any flying saucer should happen along the odds of it being captured on video are growing every day!

 

[Giddierone]

The source for the clipping in #67 is from IUR Vol 2 No.9 Sept
https://cufos.org/PDFs/IUR issues/IUR Vol. 2 No. 9 Sept. 1977.pdf

 

[Ann K]

On the positive side there are a LOT of people pointing their iPhones at the skies these days. If any flying saucer should happen along the odds of it being captured on video are growing every day!

And if there are no "flying saucers"/alien craft here, the odds of getting a picture of one remain exactly the same.

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

Orbs / circles / spheres / blobs / lights / marbles / round things ...
I really wish they'd stop calling them "orbs" as if that is a particular defined object.

So the "classification varies quite a bit" because anything that's circular that you can't identify can get put in the class Orbs.

Anything in the Orbs class that gets identified would move out of the Orbs class and into the class it really belongs to. An alien drone wouldn't be a subclass of Orb.

Orbs is just a subclass of things waiting to be classified.

But to attempt to apply classes to the Orbs class (like colour and size) suggests it's not meant like that.

 

[superhashbros_podcast]

I would like to add that Lue's wife experiencing those orbs could be a case of Folie à deux. This is a condition in which a very close relative (mostly a spouse) develops the same psychotic symptoms as their significant other. The spouse could be 100% healthy but still report symptoms of delusion and/or hallucinations. Interestingly, when you separate the healthy one from the psychotic spouse, all symptoms subside almost immediately.

So, Lue could be so convinced of his sightings that his wife (most likely) unconsciously supported him in reporting the same phenomena.

What do you think about that train of thought?

 

[elvenwear]

I would like to add that Lue's wife experiencing those orbs could be a case of Folie à deux. This is a condition in which a very close relative (mostly a spouse) develops the same psychotic symptoms as their significant other. The spouse could be 100% healthy but still report symptoms of delusion and/or hallucinations. Interestingly, when you separate the healthy one from the psychotic spouse, all symptoms subside almost immediately.

So, Lue could be so convinced of his sightings that his wife (most likely) unconsciously supported him in reporting the same phenomena.

What do you think about that train of thought?

It is very difficult to peer into the minds of others.

We don't know if Elizondo is telling us what he believes is the truth or what he believes is a lie. If he is lying (and we have no way of knowing this), then there is nothing further to explain. If he is telling the truth, then there is a problem to solve. We still run into the problem that we don't know what his wife really believes. Supposing Elizondo's wife doesn't believe it's true, but Elizondo does. She could be humouring him. There are probably numerous other permutations of belief and we have no access to any of these. Elizondo's wife could believe he is knowingly lying while he may believe what he is saying, for example. If both of them believe what they are saying is true, only then does your theory have a place and of course you could well be right.

It is a difficult problem with no easy answer and no definitive answer.

I am more interested at looking at the claims made and the evidence for them. In this case, he has made an extraordinary claim, and he has provided no evidence. As it has been pointed out before, Elizondo could easily have set up 24 hour surveillance in his house and settled the matter. The fact that he did not do this after multiple alleged sightings is disappointing, particularly when he spent so much of his time looking for footage of UAPs with the DoD.

 

[Ann K]

So, Lue could be so convinced of his sightings that his wife (most likely) unconsciously supported him in reporting the same phenomena.

What do you think about that train of thought?

Interesting, but elvenwear gave other explanations which are both simpler and I think more likely. (My numbering)

(1) If he is lying (and we have no way of knowing this), then there is nothing further to explain. ..... (2) She could be humoring him.

The same goes for his comments on the neighbors' sightings. They may be fabrications on Elizondo's part, or they may have been jokes, or perhaps things were said (with or without a wink and a nod) in sympathy with a wife who they perceived as humoring the delusions of her husband.

As of now, I believe all we have are anecdotes in a book. Has there been any confirmation from either wife or the neighbors? We may be trying to explain something that never happened.

 

[jdog]

It is very difficult to peer into the minds of others.
...

I am more interested at looking at the claims made and the evidence for them. In this case, he has made an extraordinary claim, and he has provided no evidence. As it has been pointed out before, Elizondo could easily have set up 24 hour surveillance in his house and settled the matter. The fact that he did not do this after multiple alleged sightings is disappointing, particularly when he spent so much of his time looking for footage of UAPs with the DoD.

That, and you'd think he'd have documented the incidents so they weren't vague recollections of "random" occurences. Like, "Saw three green orbs last night, Dec. 12, in hallway, around 9:13 p.m. They flew up and out through a light fixture." "Dec. 23, saw four green orbs..." These sound more like, "Honey, didn't we see some green orbs in the kid's room a few years ago in the spring? They weren't the same color as the dog-annihilating orbs, so I thought it was fine for the kids to play with them."

 

[elvenwear]

The same goes for his comments on the neighbors' sightings. They may be fabrications on Elizondo's part, or they may have been jokes, or perhaps things were said (with or without a wink and a nod) in sympathy with a wife who they perceived as humoring the delusions of her husband.

Interesting point. Once you add the neighbour's psychology, there's another layer.

Has there been any confirmation from either wife or the neighbors? We may be trying to explain something that never happened.

There is this video from X where Jenn Elizondo talks about orbs.


Source: https://x.com/Neil__Goodman/status/1827415270459068721


Below is the only quote from the book Imminent, where Elizondo mentions his neighbours witnessing orbs. He does not name the neighbours, and it is a sufficiently vague term that it could apply to a number of households and this makes it a very difficult statement to disprove.

P92 of 312

Nevertheless, we couldn't shake the things. I'd be sitting at the dining room table, working at my computer or catching up on some reading, and I'd suddenly notice one of these damn balls hovering nearby. Other times, we'd be outside, grilling or hanging out near our koi pond with neighbors, when an orb would appear randomly, linger for a few moments, then mosey over toward the trees on the edges of our property. Our neighbors witnessed this too. It got to the point where neighbors would sometimes joke, "Is this one of our government's secret programs you are working on, Lue?" Laughing uncomfortably, I'd think to myself, You have no idea how close to the truth you are. Like the rest of the family, I had tried to ignore the visitations, hoping that they would stop. But they didn't. During times of high atmospheric energy, such as storms, the occurrences became more pronounced. There are people who would conclude this was somehow connected to lightning, but it wasn't. Nor were there any high-voltage power lines anywhere in the vicinity

 

[Fin]

Seems like when its called "ball lighting" its more believable, but it also seems pretty obvious to me that, aliens aside, glowing orbs have indeed been seen floating through homes by totally normal people who aren't trying to sell a book or even just a run-of-the-mill UFO disclosure narrative..


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2i_yfETYo

 

[JMartJr]

Seems like when its called "ball lighting" its more believable, but it also seems pretty obvious to me that, aliens aside, glowing orbs have indeed been seen floating through homes by totally normal people who aren't trying to sell a book or even just a run-of-the-mill UFO disclosure narrative..

I'd agree that the CLAIM has been made by such people, going back a long time. Is anybody aware of anyone ever capturing good video or photos of this, though? (I'm not, but I am not all knowing!) People claim all sorts of stuff...

 

[NorCal Dave]

Seems like when its called "ball lighting" its more believable, but it also seems pretty obvious to me that, aliens aside, glowing orbs have indeed been seen floating through homes by totally normal people who aren't trying to sell a book or even just a run-of-the-mill UFO disclosure narrative..


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2i_yfETYo

Yeah, no. This is a puff piece from a local TV station somewhere that coincided with national lighting awareness week or something. The actual on scene reporter looks like a collage intern. The claim is that this ordinary looking couple saw "ball lighting" back in the '80s, or "30 years ago" according to the anchorman when he introduces the story.

There's no video or photos. The witnesses insinuate, like Elizondo does, that others were present and saw it to, but we never hear from them or learn who they were. This is literally a 30-year-old recollected anecdote with no corroborating evidence of any kind.

Are they selling books? Seems unlikely. Did they get to be on local TV? Indeed, they did, and for something that happened 30 years ago.

Speculating a bit here, but how the hell did local TV station find out about this occurrence from 30 years ago? I mean, when the news director was giving out the days assignments what happened? They were going to run a public awareness segment about lightning and wanted something better than the usual big lightning bolt videos? How did anybody know about this couple seeing ball lightning 30 years ago? Was the young reporter a nephew or something or maybe the news director was a relative and sent the green kid out to do the story? Maybe these people had been hyping their lightning story for the last 30 years to anyone that would listen? The whole thing seems odd and possibly staged.

Maybe they saw something, or maybe whatever they saw 30 years ago had morphed and confabulated into the story were presented with.

 

[Fin]

There was another old youtube video which I can't find after a pretty thorough search. It was a guy claiming a large orb came through his window and into his hotel room, during a lightning storm. He obviously assumed it to be ball lightning and his description fit. i.e. it didn't seem intelligently controlled. It just drifted in, headed towards an air conditioner unit, then with a loud snap it vanished. He's filming his testimony minutes after the event. The point of my initial post and this one is simply that, completely aside from UFO-related claims from people who are already UFO fans, there are reports coming from non-UFO people of orbs indoors that sound very much like they could be ball lightning.

Dave: "Yeah, no"
Then "Maybe they saw something...".

Yeah, so really its "Yeah, maybe. Or maybe not". But "yeah, no" is a bit premature. You weren't there. You don't definitively know what happened. If these witnesses were known about locally (and we'd expect such a story to spread to that seems entirely plausible) then it would make perfect sense to interview them as part of a "national lightning awareness week" puff piece. Just because a news piece is a puff piece doesn't mean the story the people tell is automatically null & void. They could be recalling a rare event accurately or it could be old memories confabulated, or worse, just lies or a planted story purely for the traffic. Also, notice I never said nor am I suggesting "it definitely happened". I said "it seems obvious to me". I THINK some of these reports may well be happening as described. I find some of the witnesses compelling. Again, doesn't mean it happened. Doesn't mean it didn't.