Elizondo's Implants

[yoshy]

Ex-Pentagon official says VA doctor has seen alien implant

In an exclusive interview, former Pentagon insider Luis Elizondo says the Department of Defense has a spacecraft retrieval program and that doctors with Veterans Affairs have seen an alleged alien implant.

"I saw a technical device that had been removed, excised by the Department of Veterans Affairs by a surgeon, a trained physician, from a U.S. military service member who claimed to have a UAP encounter. The physician claimed that the object tried to run on him or evade being excised," Elizondo told NewsNation.

Here's a reddit post with screencaps:


Favorite response:

That's a steamed potsticker. Can't fool me.

 

[FatPhil]

Favorite response:

I prefer the response to that (bold below):

[–]Gogurt_burglar_ 623 points 22 hours ago

That's a steamed potsticker. Can't fool me.

[–]DomSchu 130 points 20 hours ago

Similarly potstickers like to evade chopsticks

[–]Dances_With_Cheese 60 points 22 hours ago

That's all I can think of when I see it. I'm grossed out and hungry at the same time.

-- Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/1fhg194/former_pentagon_official_lue_elizondo_with_image/?rdt=38963


I agree with the cyst conclusion. The only cyst I knew was on a forearm tendon, and so was seemingly mobile until completely detached, just with a twitch.

 

[JMartJr]

Every new revelation just adds to my suspicions that he is a better raconteur than an investigator. I have no idea if he believes what he says, but the sheer number of outlandish claims makes me think that he does not.

I'm sorta in that camp as well, but to be as fair as possible to him, I think we are all familiar with folks who buy into one bit of woo, then maybe another, then hit that slippery slope and head into the depths of the rabbit hole and buy into tons of it. Maybe that's where he is?

 

[NorCal Dave]

Kinda just another Louie-tale as told to UFOlogy's newest favorite I'll listen and believe anything "journalist" Ol' Russ. An anonymous service member that had an undisclosed UAP encounter has some sort of unknown surgery by an anonymous Dr. and Lue has a couple of still photos of something organic that supposedly "ran off".

It's increasingly obvious that Elizondo is just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. This is red meat, or in this case an under done potsticker, for a select group that eats this stuff up. Pun intended.

Lue and Russ aren't talking to us or everyday folks, or even the casual UFO person, they're targeting the ever more extreme edges of UFOlogy. From some other reddit comments:

A doctor in Southern California has removed hundreds of these things from people. There was a documentary on it. The government has ridiculed people so much that people don't believe things at face value anymore when they are shown them. I think the aliens experimenting and tracking people is more widespread than we think.

paranormalresearch1

So there's been a progression in what Lue has been talking about recently. He's gone from talking about the program inside the pentagon and the videos that were declassified to talking about holding pieces of NHI tech/craft and now showing implants that have been removed from experiencers. He's clearly been given the green light for the next phase.

We're into a new phase of disclosure. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

ToviGrande

While it seems most of the comments were not kind to Elizondo, and it's possible the two posts above are jokes (I don't pretend to understand the reddit community) I think this is the target audience.

 

[deirdre]

one of the kids i worked with had [what we're guessing] was a lentil bean stuck up his nose. i only deduced we needed to go to the doctor because he had death breath for like 3 days. the doctor was able, after quite a long while, to remove it with any kind of surgery (he was afraid that would be the case) but whatever it was was almost as gross looking as that thing!

 

[elvenwear]

one of the kids i worked with had [what we're guessing] was a lentil bean stuck up his nose. i only deduced we needed to go to the doctor because he had death breath for like 3 days. the doctor was able, after quite a long while, to remove it with any kind of surgery (he was afraid that would be the case) but whatever it was was almost as gross looking as that thing!

Was it green and do you estimate it could have travelled through a wall?

 

[deirdre]

Was it green and do you estimate it could have travelled through a wall?

kinda a fuzzy blackgreen.

no it was solid. it thunked a bit when doc threw it in the waste bin. i think he stuck something up his nose.

 

[john.phil]

Elizondo's implant story was covered on youtube channel Vetted:

(02:40 - 04:13) Elizondo described the specimen to Jesse Michels:

Imagine a little square piece of metal that was iridescent, meaning different colours, purple, silvers, different colours. That was entombed in a soft gelatinous, what appeared to be, human soft tissue. If you were to remove a tissue sample from somebody, maybe about this big. And inside, there was a foreign object that was metallic, appeared to be metallic and multicolour. And on the biological material this encapsulation, these fibres, multicoloured fibres, yellows, greens, blues, that came off of that that central piece of gooey mass, and according to the pathologist, it was moving under the microscope, under its own metabolism

(04:57 - 06:17) Ron James summarises how Elizondo got hold of the implant:

You ("Jay") turned over a specimen to MUFON some time ago, and what actually happened to that specimen is that it was turned over to TTSA, and Lue Elizondo, and then it went to Stanford University, where Gary Nolan actually declined to study it, and then it found its way back to you. And in between we had the whole situation with the MUFON labs, where they did some analysis on it as well.

(13:19 - 15:00) - Gary Nolan explains why he refused to analyse the sample:

The material did come to me, and I returned it as is. You know, when you're talking about taking something out of someone's body, it needs pathology review first, right? It needs to go to a pathologist to make sure that it wasn't cancer. So..I mean, my statement back to them was "I'm sending you this back tomorrow. I just got it today. Because I don't have a consent form, you want me to do stuff on it, but if it hasn't gone through, I see no pathologist review here, I will lose my job if I touch this stuff". (...) You can't just take pieces of people and send it around by FeDex.

(06:35 - 12:09) Interview with "Jay", the veteran who had the specimen removed. He tells the story of travelling with a group of people at night, and pulling over to watch some lights in the sky. Then he talks about the foreign object in his body:

(...) I thought it was like an abscess or something of that nature, and I though it would come to the head and bust eventually. But it never did. (...) I got this for at least 30, 40 years. It started bothering me, and I started getting X-rays of it. (...) It came up on the X-ray, I mean it came up, it looked like a diamond effect on the X-ray's film when you look at it.

(15:48 - 16:14) The specimen was exposed to a magnet:

(16:16 - 17:01) Elizondo was not authorised to give more details about the implant because Ron James had the rights to publish the story first in his film "Accidental Truth: Next".

Condensed interview:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvtKTDA2Yg


Full interview:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hfXCEZKdwA

 

[yoshy]

@john.phil thanks for the follow-up on this! I hadn't seen this update.

You can't just take pieces of people and send it around by FEDEX.

This quote is killing me LMAO

 

[NorCal Dave]

This quote is killing me LMAO

"If it absolutely positively has to be there overnight" then, you know, FedEx.

I'm looking into the MUFON Lab and will post later on it.

 

[triplekahuna]

The physician claimed that the object tried to run on him or evade being excised," Elizondo told NewsNation.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/pentagon-official-alien-implant/

to be as fair as possible to him, I think we are all familiar with folks who buy into one bit of woo, then maybe another, then hit that slippery slope and head into the depths of the rabbit hole and buy into tons of it. Maybe that's where he is?

Of course, nobody can speak to Mr. Elizondo's intent or motivation here, besides Mr. Elizondo. Perhaps he is simply gullible and particularly incurious when it comes to the fantastical stories he's heard. I'd like to believe that. Perhaps he has an acute paranoia when it comes to the defense of the nation he's served. Perhaps he realized that his connections and associations from his time at the Pentagon gave him a unique launching pad into a new and highly lucrative career, one whose standards of evidence and proof are far more forgiving than the world of military counterintelligence. (Which -- he may have figured -- would be a cakewalk for him.)

He does, however, seem to enjoy taking the stories of the past and remixing them for fun and profit a new generation, i.e., remote-viewing and UFOs, and now Roger Leir's alien implants.

Haven't seen this in years but was reminded of it as I read this. Took a little digging through my DVD shelf since I couldn't find it online anywhere (from 2003's Penn & Teller's show "Bull****", edited to be rated-G):

DR. PFEFFER: It's a very typical case. We often see patients with small mobile masses [under the skin]. We tell them there is nothing to worry about and send them on their way. For some reason, here, this patient was given a reason for alarm and had surgery that I'm not sure was necessary.

Dr. Pfeffer is still practicing.
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/provider/glenn-pfeffer-2295102.html

 

[Mendel]

(02:40 - 04:13) Elizondo described the specimen to Jesse Michels

"according to the pathologist, it was moving under the microscope, under its own metabolism" is not medical terminology, metabolism is not part of an organism's motion apparatus.

I feel like it would be unsurprising if a veteran had a tiny piece of shrapnel in his body.

 

[Ann K]

From Elizondo:

Imagine a little square piece of metal that was iridescent, meaning different colours, purple, silvers, different colours. That was entombed in a soft gelatinous, what appeared to be, human soft tissue.

It's described above as a granuloma:

A granuloma is an area of tightly clustered immune cells, or inflammation, in your body. They form around an infection or foreign object in your body.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24597-granuloma

I feel like it would be unsurprising if a veteran had a tiny piece of shrapnel in his body.

This seems like the most probable solution, explaining the appearance, the object, and the magnetism.

 

[JMartJr]

I feel like it would be unsurprising if a veteran had a tiny piece of shrapnel in his body.

I suspect almost all of us do. I've got a bit of a sewing needle that broke off when I stepped on it, embedded in one foot, too close to some nerves for a surgeon to want to go get it unless it kept hurting, which it didn't. At any given moment I am likely have some fiberglass/carbon splinters in my fingers when I've been making or flying sticked kites (I assume some of those work their way back out, I do not know if any of them get encapsulated and remain for a time, or if they can slowly migrate, though I have heard both claimed on questionable authority.*) I've stepped on enough splinters of glass over the years that I would not be surprised if one or two are still in there somewhere.

*Edit to add -- based on @Ann K 's post above, sounds like the "encapsulated" bit is plausible.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Elizondo's implant story was covered on youtube channel Vetted:

From the video john shared, is it me, or does this quote some up the current state of affairs in the UFO world:

(16:16 - 17:01) Elizondo was not authorised to give more details about the implant because Ron James had the rights to publish the story first in his film "Accidental Truth: Next".

It's about getting the truth out, reveling the cover up and disclosure. As long as it's on certain terms and various people can cash in along the way.

I happened to be reading a Bigfoot book on a plane ride this week and it was describing the similar situation in the Bigfoot world. All the big names from the '60s-'80s, including Krantz, Dahinden, Heuvelmans, Green, Byrne, Beckjord and others all believed in some sort of Bigfoot but they were all jockeying in and amongst themselves to be the gate keeper and authority on the subject. Dahinden would sue anybody that used a still from the Patterson-Gimlin film, as he held the rights, while Krantz would keep secret how he could identify tracks as real or hoaxed. They all wanted to be the guy that discovered Bigfoot, and if some other yokel managed to do it, they would be the expert that could proclaim the find authentic. They were all in competition with each other.

The UFO world seems to have learned, unconsciously, from the Bigfooters of yore. Likely because the media world is some much different now and spread around, the UFOlogists instead embrace cross-pollinating. Everyone has their YouTube channel, or book deal, or exclusive thing, but they all share back and forth to keep the hype going. I'm sure there's disagreement and clashes, but it seems most of them recognize there's a big media pie to share.

So, Elizondo describing this implant in his book then leads to photos on Coulthart's show, which just keeps a lame UFO subject from the '90s like "alien implants" going. The holders of the "sample" sent it TTSA where Elizondo was and then on to Nolan and eventually to MUFON and it all leads to hype about a largely discredited and forgotten tangent from the alien abduction fad of the '90s.

To be fair, the actual quote is this:

15:58
it's fascinating um no I can't wait for people to hear that um yeah you're going to hear directly from this person that we're

talking about now these pictures Ron that were showing right here on the screen have these been shown before have

you shown these anywhere no this is this is the first time they've ever been publicly shown this is uh from mufon's
16:16
confidential investigation we handed the this the materials over to ttsa back

then and it's only with permission from the the the well witness or whatever you

want to call it and and mufon's blessing that I can share these but uh yeah it's uh these
16:34
have not been publicly published oh that's important to remember exclusive here from Ron and

It seems the basic narrative is that this guy had something removed, either from his leg or his arm, and it was sent to TTSA. Even where this "sample" came from seems to be confused:

14:10
interesting because the uh what has been said is that it came from a leg and I

think that that's that's one fact that I think might have been changed to protect the identity but it actually came out of
14:22
the the the arm and hand area um but everything else about the uh about the

um this implant story corroborates perfectly with with this but it it didn't come out of his leg it came out
14:35
of his AR (arm) out of his hand

So, it comes from a different body part than Elizondo claimed in his book, but otherwise it "corroborates perfectly". They make a big deal about photos of their sample matching the photo Elizondo presented on Coulthart's New Nation show, meaning they have the same sample that they originally sent to TTSA and Elizondo and Elizondo had a photo of. It's all very circular.

As it turned out that TTSA was in fact just a money generating media company, they didn't have any way to test the sample, so it got sent on to noted UFO guy Dr. Garry Nolan at Stanford. Unlike in the past with supposed alien mummies, Nolan took a pass on this sample, because it lacked the appropriate paperwork. This is a clip of James interviewing Nolan, I've put the part where Nolan is actually speaking in italics for clarity and bolded some interesting comments:

25:45
from somebody we took this thing and we preserved it properly in laboratory conditions and we gave it to L alzando (Elizondo)

now the word was that it made it to Stanford which may have been you the material did come to me um and I

returned it as is you know when you're talking about taking something out of
26:05
somebody's body uh it needs pathology review first right it needs to go to a

pathologist to make sure that it wasn't cancer so I mean my statement back to them was I'm sending you this back

tomorrow uh I just got it today uh because I don't have a consent form you

want me to do stuff on it but if it hasn't gone through I see no pathologist review here I will lose my job
26:28
if I touch this stuff

While Nolan is telling James why he didn't look at the sample, he's also saying what needs to be done so that he can look at the sample it seems to me. He needs that pathologist's report and a consent form from the witness. Elizondo claims the pathologist saw the sample moving under the microscope, so where is his report? And if the whole point of James's dealing with this claim is to understand this sample, why not get the report and a consent form? Now, it's possible that after Nolan's involvement and ethical issues with Ata, he's learned to just steer clear of this stuff. The Ata case summarized at the end for those interested.

It sounds like there is some sort of lab report, but more importantly, James is claiming that the story of the sample trying evade the surgeon is from Elizondo and the witness was unaware of this. I'd have to go back to Elizondo's book to see exactly how he worded it and who he heard it from:

22:35
decided to have it extracted and a VA doctor extracted it and Lou talks about

there being reports of the object trying to avoid distraction that was not conveyed

exactly to the implant person but the doctor did tell him according to him

that there were some very interesting uh occurrences during the efforts to
22:59
extract it and somewhere in the in the lab reports is is an additional comment but I can't publish that right now so

The whole thing is very confusing. We have Elizondo making various claims that seem to be 2nd or 3rd hand, for example the pathologist says the sample tried to move under the microscope, while the surgeon says it tried to evade him, so did Elizondo speak to both of these people? Or is all just hearsay? And at what point did what Elizondo is claiming become part of what the witnesses is claiming?


In any event this sample eventually made it to the MUFON Lab for analysis, likely because they were the only ones that would look at it. So now there is an official report:

17:18
these These are from the official lab reports there's an entire written report there's there's a bunch of other stuff

that we're revealing in the film but yeah this is the real deal materials

The problem though is this was done by the MUFON Lab, which according to MUFON Missouri seems to consist of a couple of miroscopes:

We currently able to do light microscopy work (Electron Microscope funding is out of reach for us at present) on any cellular structures or plant and animal tissues found in the field. We can do metals testing on our forensic microscope which has two regular microscope stages as well as a metals stages and comparison stages for bullets etc. Samples can be photographed side by side for comparing marks, surface crystalline structures and content, or other visible similarities.

A DNA extractor, at least from bodily fluids:

Our latest purchase is an AutoGen Mini 80 which is a DNA extractor. This extractor can extract from bodily fluids, or even touch DNA although the touch DNA will require major PCR (polymerize chain reaction) work to amplify it for translation.

And something to test soil:

We are also capable of testing soil samples for biological or mineral content. Most evidence analytical testing methods for forensic samples can now be done in this lab.

The lab is run by a Lynn E. Mann, who has a two year degree in Electron Microscopy, which the lab doesn't have and a BS in Animation:

Lynne holds two degrees- an Associate in Science and Certificate in Electron Microscopy (Biological) from San Joaquin Delta College, California and a Bachelor of Science in Digital Animation from Missouri College, St. Louis. She is proficient in two computer programming languages and several computer programs.

https://www.missourimufon.org/mufon-lab.html

This not exactly a full pathology lab. It's a lab tech with a couple of microscopes. The resulting report would be largely meaningless, and if I'm understanding the intro to this video, even Ron James thought so. It's a bit unclear, but the host makes it sound like James contacted him saying he had all this information, including the report and interview with Nolan from when he made his last film, Accidental Truth, and he didn't use it, or at least some of what he's sharing here was cut:

1:56
exclusively again thanks to Ron James and mu on as well as a clip of Gary

Nolan talking about this implant you see Ron James made a film called The Accidental truth he released it last

year and a clip fell to The Cutting Room floor as they say so this is a a clip
2:17
that's never been made public before but it has to do with the implant so I'm

I'm not planning on watching the film to clarify this, but I guess I'll keep plowing through the video time permitting.

Nolan and Ata, from the thread on the Nazca mummies:

In the mid '00s, UFOlogist Steven Greer obtained a sample from a supposed "alien" mummy from Chili's Atacama Desert, to use in his film Sirus. Stanford geneticist Garry Nolan heard about it and volunteered to test the sample. While Nolan is a geneticist, he is not a Bio-Archaeologist or an Anthropologist or a specialist in Atacama cultures. Again, the "expert/non-expert". Actual Bio-archaeologist that looked at the mummy, quickly identified it as a pre-term fetus that showed signs of having been desiccated. Not an alien. If not an alien, there was no need for Nolan to test the DNA to see if it was an alien.

In this case, Nolan was called out for conducting the research in the first place or at least not stopping once he found it was NOT an alien and just a pre-term human girl:

On the basis of incorrectly perceived phenotypic anomalies and an in-
correct age-at-death estimate, Nolan and colleagues undertook a DNA
analysis in 2013 and unsurprisingly confirmed the mummy was human.

Although this testing was not sensu stricto necessary, once her humanity
was confirmed, analysis should have stopped and her body should have
been repatriated to Chile.

Had these researchers involved, from the beginning, a biological anthropologist who specialises in human re-
mains, we are certain that ethical concerns would have been raised regarding the potentially living relatives of Ata (Dorador and Harrod,
2018) and the illegal removal of the mummy from Chile. We therefore cannot conclude that the ends justify the means.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879981718300548?via=ihub

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/us-forensic-scientist-dr-john-mcdowell-says-the-small-nazca-mummies-are-not-real.13500/#post-315618

 

[John J.]

It's described above as a granuloma

I feel like it would be unsurprising if a veteran had a tiny piece of shrapnel in his body.

I suspect almost all of us do.

Agreed- many of us might have small bits of debris embedded and encapsulated, sometimes from minor injuries that we've all but forgotten.

Retained foreign bodies in the feet following puncture wounds in children occur commonly. They include glass, metallic objects, and organic materials. Glass, ceramic, and metallic foreign bodies are almost always identified on plain radiographs...
...The most frequently reported injuries are those to the hands, knees, and feet

Foreign Body Granuloma: A Diagnosis Not to Forget, Case Reports in Orthopedics, El Bouchti, F. Ait Essi et al., 26 March 2012
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2012/439836?msockid=165bc15964176d9d2e19d418652f6c87

Of course not all minor injuries are X-rayed or even professionally evaluated; anecdotally (as in, I remember being told) people using lathes, drills etc. for working metal in years gone by sometimes "picked up" swarf, often unknowingly, from injuries that were not reported or recorded for one reason or another.

El Bouchti, Ait Essi et al. continue, in the context of a foreign body causing joint injury,

The median time from the injury to the detection of the osseous lesion is variable from some months to many years (4 months–20 years), and both the child [patient] and the family may have forgotten about the [initial] injury entirely.

Kamalinia, A., Seifaei, A. et al. describe the discovery of an encapsulated shard of glass while surgically exploring a suspected case of calcific periarthritis as indicated by X-ray:

Though radiographs showed a calcific lesion, surgical exploration revealed an encapsulated glass foreign body, an unexpected decade-old relic the patient had forgotten until the postoperative history re-taking...

The patient had received a glass cut ten years previously, but it appeared to have healed cleanly "...with no visible scar" and he had not known that glass remained embedded (and didn't connect the 10 year-old glass cut with his more recent symptoms).

From, Unveiling a foreign body masquerading as periarticular calcification: a case report, Journal of Medical Case Reports, 18:251 2024
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11092150/

Both the above papers deal with encapsulated foreign bodies not because they are in themselves rare, but because they may be mistaken for orthopaedic pathologies if they affect a joint or bone. Both papers describe patients who hadn't remembered the cause of the foreign body inclusion.

Small granulomas in soft tissue need not be painful, and if they're not pressuring another structure they're often left alone

Providers don't often treat individual granulomas... ...If you have a painful granuloma, acetaminophen (Tylenol®) or ibuprofen (Advil®, Motrin®) might help.

"Granuloma", Cleveland Clinic here, last reviewed 01 Nov. 2023 (there are different types of granuloma, not just foreign body granulomas).
This rather supports the opinion of Dr Pfeffer, quoted by @triplekahuna above,

It's a very typical case. We often see patients with small mobile masses [under the skin]. We tell them there is nothing to worry about and send them on their way. For some reason, here, this patient was given a reason for alarm and had surgery that I'm not sure was necessary.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited to add:

While Nolan is telling James why he didn't look at the sample, he's also saying what needs to be done so that he can look at the sample it seems to me. He needs that pathologist's report and a consent form from the witness.

Must admit I'm pleasantly surprised by Nolan's stance on this- you don't send unmarked biomedical samples in the post (hoping that the USA is similar to EU/UK on this!) and you need the informed consent of the "donor".
In the rather unlikely event that the little gristly lump is ET tech, he might be entitled to some of the resulting wealth created from it (unlike the case of Henrietta Lacks and her family, regarding the HeLa cancer cell line, Wikipedia, Henrietta Lacks).

 

[JMartJr]

The UFO world seems to have learned, unconsciously, from the Bigfooters of yore. Likely because the media world is some much different now and spread around, the UFOlogists instead embrace cross-pollinating. Everyone has their YouTube channel, or book deal, or exclusive thing, but they all share back and forth to keep the hype going. I'm sure there's disagreement and clashes, but it seems most of them recognize there's a big media pie to share.

Reading Robert Sheaffer's "UFO Verdict," he's been writing in the last bit I read about the rivalry between APRO (Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization), NICAP (National Investigation Committee on Aarial), GSW (Ground Saucer Watch) and some of the other classic "Old School" UFO groups -- I am not seeing anything like the sort of infighting and turf-defending that they used to have. That may be because we no longer have the multiple organized UFO groups fighting for member$hip dollar$. Of course, today as back then, a good feud is a proven way to get attention and keep your "team" of supporters engaged...

 

[NorCal Dave]

I am not seeing anything like the sort of infighting and turf-defending that they used to have. That may be because we no longer have the multiple organized UFO groups fighting for member$hip dollar$.

Agreed. I think in the modern media world where everyone from you and me to Elon can have an X account, or a YouTube channel, or Instagram followers it makes sense to collaborate and cross sell vs compete. Each individual in the UFO world may have limited Patreon dollars to spread around, but each person can click on and follow to an almost infinite degree. It seemed Elizondo's star was fading a bit, but now he's been in the hearings, and he's popped up on my YouTube feed appearing in several interview/podcast shows from the last month or so. Even if a YouTuber thinks Lue is talking a lot of nonsense, it's better to have him on their show instead of pointing out problems with his claims.

It's symbiotic and maybe a bit parasitic.

 

[MonkeeSage]

The whole thing is very confusing. We have Elizondo making various claims that seem to be 2nd or 3rd hand, for example the pathologist says the sample tried to move under the microscope, while the surgeon says it tried to evade him, so did Elizondo speak to both of these people? Or is all just hearsay? And at what point did what Elizondo is claiming become part of what the witnesses is claiming?

In the book he just references unnamed "doctors" and "physicians" but I get the impression they are stories he heard from Kit Green, who I take it is the William "Will" Livingston in the book.

The reason I think "Will" is Kit Green is because Green is retired CIA, based in Detroit, has been studying alleged biological effects of UAP on humans since the days of NIDS up though BAASS and beyond, and the same language about running the "weird desk" and looking at health effects related to UAP is used in a Vice interview with Garry Nolan from 2021, and Nolan names Kit Green.

Here's how it works: Let's say that a Department of Defense personnel gets damaged or hurt. Odd cases go up the chain of command, at least within the medical branch. If nobody knows what to do with it, it goes over to what's called the weird desk, where things get thrown in a bucket. Then somebody eventually says, 'Oh, there's enough interesting things in this bucket worth following up on that all look reasonably similar.' Science works by comparing things that are similar and dissimilar to other things. Enough people were having very similar kinds of bad things happen to them, that it came to the attention of a guy by the name of Dr. Kit Green. He was in charge of studying some of these individuals. You have a smorgasbord of patients, some of whom had heard weird noises buzzing in their head, got sick, etc. A reasonable subset of them had claimed to have seen UAPs and some claimed to be close to things that got them sick.

Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/sta...alyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes/

Imminent, pp. 63-64

The list of in-program graybeards was short. One was a man I'll refer to as William "Will" Livingston. For years he presided over the little-known "weird desk" at the CIA, in charge of investigating unusual medical issues, implants, and abductions, all related to UAP encounters and anything strange. It was the real X-Files of the CIA. He was the keeper of all those secrets. Will is a patriot of the American cause, passionate about his work and pursuing truth. A medical doctor and surgeon based out of Detroit, Will was part of every program that was too sensitive to be publicly acknowledged—hence his involvement.

At the time we met, he was in his sixties and had seen the best and worst of government bureaucracy—and it showed. He came across as a
curmudgeonly grandfather, jaded and frustrated by a system he had spent so many years defending and supporting. Will had little patience for incompetence. But he was also exceedingly kind and patient if you were willing to learn. When we first connected, I told him how the Colares, Brazil, case shocked me. I had assumed that if UAP were indeed real, they zipped in and out of our atmosphere harmlessly. I didn't know that they could harm or kill people.

Claims about the implants:

pp. 113-115

My former training in microbiology likely made me a bit of a nuisance to Will, kind of like a Cub Scout asking an Army Ranger to be his mentor. But Will was always the gentleman, and if he felt that way, he never let on. My specific interests involved alleged alien implants found in humans. From what I read, often living tissue grew around implants, but such growths never contained anything but the patient's DNA in them. The growths sometimes sprouted multiple brightly colored hairs or filaments, similar to Morgellons fibers. When researchers scrape away the human tissue, they find objects that resemble a technical device in size and shape but without any circuitry whatsoever. I once handled one of these implants myself, provided to me by a hospital in the Department of Veterans Affairs, where it had been removed from a US military service member who had encountered a UAP. The material, no longer or wider than a joint of one of your fingers, looked more like a microchip encapsulated by a slimy semitranslucent casing of tissue. It looked very similar to mother-of-pearl. Under a microscope, it was still moving somehow. The doctor hypothesized that it had its own metabolism. AAWSAP/AATIP had also obtained photographs of these sorts of tiny objects from living foreign military pilots. Some of the specimens that have been removed from individuals were allegedly sent to various medical institutions, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health, and a US Army research facility at Fort Detrick in Maryland, where some of the most deadly viruses are under lock and key and the watchful eye of armed guards. Although I asked often, Will never commented to me about any involvement he may have had regarding alleged implants, but it didn't stop me from asking whenever I could.

I already knew from other research and interviews that doctors had seen cases where the alleged alien implant evaded extraction by moving subcutaneously when doctors tried to excise it. I heard similar stories when investigating implants removed from otherwise healthy soldiers. Physicians really had to work to pin down and cut out the objects. With my background in microbiology, I was perplexed how highly motile objects such as these could move without creating a devastating path of tissue destruction inside the human body. Where was the white cell response? Where was the destructive immune cascade? I knew from my time studying trypanosomes at the University of Miami that anytime these spirochetes moved about under the skin, they would elicit an enormous immune response. Where was this response with regard to the implants?

Doctors reported detecting the implant moving, but there weren't any obvious signs of pathway destruction. Like a stealth bomber, the implant moved without any trace or signature, almost as if evading the natural human immune response. It was as if the body didn't know the object was there in the first place. Maybe the implant encouraged the growth of human tissue around itself to keep the body from rejecting it. Post-extraction, some implants moved around the petri dish in which they were confined until they ran out of energy. One theory a doctor told me was that they drew their energy from their host's body.

 

[Mendel]

running the "weird desk" and looking at health effects related to UAP

if they had their hand in creating "Havana syndrome", that explains a lot

when you purposely collect weird cases, you have to be very careful to reject Hollywood thinking, where a film plot would be written such that there is a common cause, when irl there often isn't—it just looks that way because these random cases arrive at the same desk. ("Burn pit syndrome" is an example with a common cause, but there the sufferers actually have something in common besides the syndrome itself, i.e. exposure to burn pits in Iraq.)

 

[John J.]

Claims about the implants: (Quotes Elizondo):

Maybe the implant encouraged the growth of human tissue around itself to keep the body from rejecting it.

-Or maybe foreign bodies that can't be expelled are routinely encapsulated in human tissue by processes that are reasonably well understood and known to be commonplace, as mentioned in post #16.

Wikipedia, "Foreign body reaction",

A foreign body reaction (FBR) is a typical tissue response to a foreign body within biological tissue. It usually includes the formation of a foreign body granuloma. Tissue encapsulation of an implant is an example, as is inflammation around a splinter.

(Maybe Elizondo fans will perk up at the word "implant", but this of course refers to medical or cosmetic implants of deliberate human origin.)

...a granuloma:

A granuloma is an area of tightly clustered immune cells, or inflammation, in your body. They form around an infection or foreign object in your body.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24597-granuloma

Also Wikipedia, "Granuloma", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granuloma:

A granuloma is an aggregation of macrophages (along with other cells) that forms in response to chronic inflammation. This occurs when the immune system attempts to isolate foreign substances that it is otherwise unable to eliminate.

Elizondo takes a common biological process that any one of our bodies is capable of (encapsulating a foreign body in human tissue) and wonders if it is a deliberate strategy (or design feature) of an implant to avoid rejection.
If so, all foreign body granulomas share this property! I think we can safely say not all foreign body granulomas are ET implants.

Elizondo again:

My specific interests involved alleged alien implants found in humans. From what I read, often living tissue grew around implants, but such growths never contained anything but the patient's DNA in them.

Which is exactly what we would expect from a foreign body granuloma.
-And Elizondo is talking about the "alien" implants containing nothing but human DNA, as he immediately continues

The growths sometimes sprouted multiple brightly colored hairs or filaments, similar to Morgellons fibers.

Not sure about sprouting, but granulomas may form around neglected surgical sutures, plastic / fibreglass filaments, etc.
Lue doesn't mention the controversial nature of "Morgellons" as a diagnosis or a description of fibres, which is interesting as his degree was in parasitology IIRC.

When researchers scrape away the human tissue, they find objects that resemble a technical device in size and shape but without any circuitry whatsoever. The material... looked more like a microchip

(1) Lue doesn't explain what a "technical device" is, but it has an approximate size (...a joint of one of your fingers...) and shape.

(2) The object doesn't have any circuitry whatsoever. And looks like a microchip.
I doubt we'll get an answer from Mr Elizondo about what a microchip without any circuitry whatsoever looks like; to me that description is a contradiction, or (charitably) a rather convoluted way of describing a silicon wafer.

 

[NorCal Dave]

In the book he just references unnamed "doctors" and "physicians" but I get the impression they are stories he heard from Kit Green, who I take it is the William "Will" Livingston in the book.

So, just a bunch of hearsay and grapevine retellings.

If Will is Kit Green, why the subterfuge? It was known a couple of years ago that Green wrote one of the DIRDs for EarthTech that went to BAASS and onto AWWSAP:

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is well known among those with an eye to the UFO genre for reasons including his work with the CIA and corporations controlled by Robert Bigelow. In approximately 2010 he provided a paper to Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies for inclusion in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application Program. The AAWSAP contract was awarded to BAASS by the Defense Intelligence Agency. Green's paper, one of some 38 collected by BAASS at the time, is titled Anomalous Acute and Subacute Field Effects on Human Biological Tissues.

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2022/04/the-ufo-injury-study-that-wasnt.html?m=1

EarthTech handled the creation of the DIRDs for BAASS/AWWSAP and is owned by Hal Puthoff. When one looks at Shellenberger's supposed UFO Timeline, the most mentioned people are:

Jaques Vallee: 129
Hal Puthoff: 93
Kit Green: ~65-70
Eric Davis: 47

If Vallee is the UFO savior of the last 40 years, Puthoff, Green and Davis are The Three Stooges the three wise men. There's no mystery about who he is and his role in UFOlogy. Did Elizondo choose to not use his name or did Green not want to be associated with his book?

 

[triplekahuna]

The reason I think "Will" is Kit Green is because Green is retired CIA, based in Detroit, has been studying alleged biological effects of UAP on humans since the days of NIDS up though BAASS and beyond, and the same language about running the "weird desk" and looking at health effects related to UAP is used in a Vice interview with Garry Nolan from 2021, and Nolan names Kit Green.

I remembered that characterization too from Elizondo's "Imminent": it stuck out to me.

It's not much (the source here is shaky) but it uses the exact verbiage in a 2021 article about how the "CIA" allegedly "studied" some "real alien autopsy footage":

Mitchell's email thread was sent primarily to Robert Bigelow and the scientists at his 'National Institute for Discovery Sciences' or 'NIDS' in 2000 who were trying to track down and authenticate the Roswell alien autopsy video. Says [UFO investigator Philip] Mantle, "There are a number of people linked to the thread but the main guy they are speaking to is a Dr. Christopher 'Kit' Green and he worked for the CIA many years back on what he called their weird desk...."

April 4, 2021: https://exonews.org/tag/dr-christopher-kit-green/

If Will is Kit Green, why the subterfuge?

Wondered that too. I assume it was purely to stay within the "trust me, it's classified, bro" lane and lend credence to his "insider" brand. Why he used the same wording as a three-year-old internet article seemingly indicates the contempt with which he holds his audience is interesting.

(Totally an aside)
Exonews is a product of a 501(c)(3) called the "Exopolitics Institute" with a curious stated mission:

The Institute was created to simultaneously provide support for scholars engaged in exopolitical research, whistleblowers disclosing information about covert projects allegedly involving extraterrestrials or their technology, and/or individuals claiming to have experienced extraterrestrial contact.

(/aside)

For years, close-encounter witnesses have been claiming that their strange
visitors have been implanting objects in their bodies. In 1996, these objects
began to be located, removed, and placed under laboratory study. The
National Institute for Discovery Sciences, using the facilities of New Mexico
Tech, determined that some implants removed by Dr. Roger Lier [sic] and others
consisted of highly magnetized metal, clad in minerals that would have the
effect of retarding rejection. Others were discovered by Dr. Lier [sic] to be
encased in membranes made from the skin of the individuals bearing them.

"The Communion Letters" by Anne Strieber & Whitley Strieber, Crossroad Press, 2016, p. 14.

A common link (again) is Bigelow.

Bigelow -> NIDS
Leir -> NIDS
Green -> NIDS
Bigelow Aerospace <-> AATIP
AATIP -> Elizondo
Bigelow -> Elizondo
Green ("Will") -> Elizondo
Elizondo -> resurrecting "alien implants" for a new generation

Same stuff, different decade.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Same stuff, different decade.

Right?! This happens in the UFO world, but it seems "alien implants" was always a bit fringe, so I was surprised when I heard it was in Lues book. He appears to have been introduced to these guys through AWWSAP/ATTIP, with Puthoff helping him with his remote viewing abilities, then working with TTSA, which Puthoff co-founded, so he ends up hearing all their UFO stories. As has been pointed out elsewhere, there was a time Puthoff, Davis and Green thought the alien autopsy hoax video was real.

 

[John J.]

The National Institute for Discovery Sciences, using the facilities of New Mexico Tech, determined that some implants removed by Dr. Roger Lier [sic] and others consisted of highly magnetized metal, clad in minerals that would have the effect of retarding rejection.

"The Communion Letters" Anne Strieber & Whitley Strieber, quoted by @triplekahuna in post #23.


Again- apart from Leir's apparent confusion about cause and effect- exactly what would be expected of foreign body granulomas:
Foreign bodies that can't be ejected or absorbed are encapsulated, primarily by macrophages but also other cells, and some calcification can take place. The foreign body is "walled off", an immune response to reduce possible toxicity from the intrusion and to reduce local inflammation.

NIDS are almost certainly not retrieving "implants... ...clad in minerals that would have the effect of retarding rejection",
they are excising foreign bodies which cannot be ejected or absorbed. Those bodies become encased in a granuloma, which may mineralise over time:

In the long term, the foreign body reaction results in encapsulation of the foreign body within a calcified shell.

Wikipedia, Foreign body reaction; also

radiologists often use the term granuloma when they see a calcified nodule on X-ray or CT scan of the chest. They make this assumption since granulomas usually contain calcium...

Wikipedia, Granuloma

 

[yoshy]

(2) The object doesn't have any circuitry whatsoever. And looks like a microchip.
I doubt we'll get an answer from Mr Elizondo about what a microchip without any circuitry whatsoever looks like; to me that description is a contradiction, or (charitably) a rather convoluted way of describing a silicon wafer.

A silicon wafer would actually fit in pretty well with regular old shrapnel, with a little bit of wishful thinking (which has never been in short supply).

Some wafers have barely any complex shapes on their exterior, like

(See more examples with varying complexity on google search.)

Elizondo messes up words all the time, so I don't see it being unlikely that he used "microchip" in place of "wafer" to describe a piece of metal with some patterning. (Honestly, I could see myself making that mistake.) With a mind primed to connect everything to the "phenomenon", some shrapnel that just happens to have some pattern-like damage could definitely fit here.

 

[eleggua]

From the thread title, was expecting

 

[Mendel]

From the thread title, was expecting

I've been thinking about other types of implants

 

[tinkertailor]

I've been thinking about other types of implants

A different kind of silicon implant, eh?

I got confused the other night between the "Elizondo's Orbs" and "Elizondo's Implants" threads and laughed because they both have the same humorous implication for me.

 

[yoshy]

@eleggua @Mendel @tinkertailor

I deliberately chose this title for exactly the thoughts you're having, as a play on the thread titled "Elizondo's Orbs"

 

[FatPhil]

A different kind of silicon implant, eh?

I got confused the other night between the "Elizondo's Orbs" and "Elizondo's Implants" threads and laughed because they both have the same humorous implication for me.

If we're explaining the joke, let's just go straight to the punchline: Neuticles (as per: https://neuticles.com/ )

 

[John J.]

Elizondo messes up words all the time, so I don't see it being unlikely that he used "microchip" in place of "wafer" to describe a piece of metal with some patterning.

I take your point, but maybe you're being a bit more generous to Mr Elizondo than I would be!
As with his domestic orbs and apparent lack of curiosity (or need to gather evidence- even keep a diary), I feel his descriptions of what the supposed implants looked like are strangely vague.

Why no professional-standard photos? This might be expected for an unusual and interesting tissue sample sent for histology / other further investigation in the developed world.
At the very least, the implants Elizondo describes- if they have been deliberately implanted without the informed consent of the "host"- are evidence of criminal assault. NIDS did not share information with relevant policing agencies as far as we know.

If there is evidence that the implants are (or were) working technological artefacts made for a specific purpose, that information should have been shared. It could help identify hypothetical (terrestrial) perpetrators, and it might be of importance to those afflicted.

A methodical and detailed description, and high quality photographs (and micrographs) should help determine the purpose (if any) and functional viability (if any) of the implants, if they are of human manufacture.
Equally, a thorough examination might establish that the implants are little different from the varied pieces of debris that we know sometimes enter the body- sometimes unnoticed or subsequently forgotten- which become encapsulated in a granuloma. Such accidental inclusions are not particularly rare.

If there were indications of extraterrestrial origin, then this would be of extremely profound importance. NIDS, and Elizondo, have provided no testable evidence whatsoever of any such indications.
No NIDS or NIDS-associated personnel have published any findings about the implants in an appropriate peer-reviewed journal that I know of.
A cynic might wonder if a level of description and investigation sufficient to please Rob Bigelow was the accepted goal.

NIDS have not shared detailed descriptions or images of the type we might expect from a half-way competent scientific investigation. Nor have any of those associated with NIDS (Robert Bigelow, administrator Colm Kelleher, Dr Leir, and, via AATIP, Luis Elizondo).
I mention Colm Kelleher because he was one of the few staff still at NIDS before it wound up in 2004
(Wikipedia, National Institute for Discovery Science, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_for_Discovery_Science).

The National Institute for Discovery Science now consists only of Administrator Colm Kelleher, a receptionist, and a part-time site designer.

-From "The End of the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS)", Dale Stephens, 2004 accessed via Internet Archive WaybackMachine, https://web.archive.org/web/20091026221958/http://geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2271/
-it's a short but interesting read.

If NIDS found out anything interesting or useful about the implants, we might expect Colm Kelleher to know; he has a PhD from Trinity, Dublin in biochemistry (I think- might be immunology?)
But in an hour-long talk on the YouTube show "Event Horizon" (John Michael Godier) from Dec 2023 or Jan 2024, Colm doesn't raise Elizondo's implants as evidence; instead he seems to say that conclusive evidence is elusive:

There does seem to be a concerted effort, on the part of this phenomenon [UFOs- John J.] to prevent accumulation of scientific data. A good example of this is right now, on this planet there are probably six point four billion smartphones, each one of which has a very high definition camera, a lot of them have high definition camera, but yet we're still struggling with very blurry sort of, long distance photographs, that should not be happening with something that is not actively preventing the accumulation of data...

From "What a Covert U.S. Government UFO Program Discovered with Colm Kelleher", Event Horizon on YouTube, approx. 7 mins 6 secs into the video.
(I am not saying this video is useful or interesting).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XhRKYo-l1Q&t=426s


Kelleher takes the lack of data about, and photographs of, UFOs as, effectively, evidence that alien spacecraft are interfering in human affairs!
Skating over the unfalsifiable (and unscientific) nature of his hypothesis, Kelleher doesn't sound like a man who has seen persuasive (and presumably still extant) evidence that implants are of ET origin during his time at NIDS.

 

[yoshy]

I take your point, but maybe you're being a bit more generous to Mr Elizondo than I would be!
As with his domestic orbs and apparent lack of curiosity (or need to gather evidence- even keep a diary), I feel his descriptions of what the supposed implants looked like are strangely vague.

This is the first time I've ever been accused of generosity towards Lue!

To clarify my position, I think the suggestion that it was shrapnel is correct. Basically, Lue sees shrapnel with some vague pattern on it (literally just dents in the metal since it's, ya know, shrapnel) and automatically assumes it is some high tech "microchip". Lue's lack of curiosity comes from him already believing he's 100% correct, so there's no need to do the extra work. See metal => aliens duh. "My work here is done."

 

[Ann K]

@John J. quotes:

yet we're still struggling with very blurry sort of, long distance photographs, that should not be happening with something that is not actively preventing the accumulation of data...

...but is exactly what you'd expect to find when those with a clearer picture have all been identified as something mundane, and only those in the ever-present LIZ remain for him to make videos about.

 

[NorCal Dave]

From "What a Covert U.S. Government UFO Program Discovered with Colm Kelleher", Event Horizon on YouTube, approx. 7 mins 6 secs into the video.
(I am not saying this video is useful or interesting).

Talk about a click-bait title and thumbnail. I'm under the impression that if I watch that video, I'll get to see the inside of a UFO or at least get a good description of one from somebody that has been inside an actual UFO. As for a "Covert US Government Program" that Kelleher was involved in, that's AWWSAP as Kelleher ran BAASS just as he ran NIDS. And it wasn't covert, just on the down low because of what they were doing.

 

[yoshy]

Talk about a click-bait title and thumbnail. I'm under the impression that if I watch that video, I'll get to see the inside of a UFO or at least get a good description of one from somebody that has been inside an actual UFO. As for a "Covert US Government Program" that Kelleher was involved in, that's AWWSAP as Kelleher ran BAASS just as he ran NIDS. And it wasn't covert, just on the down low because of what they were doing.

John Michael Godier unfortunately got swept up pretty hard by the UAP stuff. I loved his channel and Event Horizon because it was for "out there" stuff while still being fact based. (Topics like: could a shadow biosphere exist on Earth, and if so, could we detect it?) His recent videos have been a tad more skeptical towards the UAP world, and I'm hoping that trend continues.