DHS Declares 4th Amendment Free Zone Miles with US Border, Debunkers Speechless?

DHS Declares 4th​ Amendment Free Zone 100 Miles with US Border, Debunkers Working Feverously To Explain How This Is Just A Conspiracy Theory.

While the last part may be sarcasm the first part is still true and it will be interesting to hear how this too is either a conspiracy theory (not real) or what reasons/excuses debunkers come up with as to how this is nothing to be worried about and or is not cause for concern that the government is acting in a way that leads down the path towards a police state. I could be wrong and perhaps this will be one of those events that finally open the eyes of some of you.

BTW - This is reported on in wired so it’s a reputable news source and no something you can easily dismiss as being part of the "truthers" or "conspiracy theorists". It also is being reported by the ACLU and that is another not so easily dismissed source.

Full story is at the below link. In short the DHS is saying that the border around the US thru 100 miles inwards from the Border is a 4th amendment free zone. This may sound like no big deal since the "protecting Americans from terrorism" excuse is being used but make no mistake about it, this is but one step of many. This is a test to see if Americans will put up with and if some will even make excuses for it, explain away any fears that this is a move towards a police state. If enough do accept this then the next phase is implemented and the 4th amendment zone is expanded to include a larger area (perhaps 250 miles inward) and or its expanded to exclude more amendments.

Thoughts? Replies on how this is either "Nothing to be concerned with" or "This is just Conspiracy Theory"? How about it Mike? I know how much you enjoy debunking anything that hints at pointing towards anything the so called conspiracy teorists have been warning about for a very long time.



http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-seizures/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
No, I think this is the DHS overstepping their legal authority. They should check at the border. Unfortunately it wil probably require either a supreme court case, or an act of congress to get them to stop.

I'm not sure the "debunkers speechless" is called for. Unless we are speechless because there's nothing to debunk?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
AFAIK the 100 miles issue is not new at all - they date back to a SCOTUS case from 1976 when the Border Patrol was part of the Immigration and Naturalisation service.

the SCOTUS case does not say that the BP is free from 4th amendment structures - it says the permanenet checkpoints do not actually breach the 4th amendment at all - representing it as a "4th amendment free zone" is inaccurate and worth debunking.

whethe the particular action in the news article, or the general case of searching electronic information will also meet that criteria is almost certainly going to be tested IMO - from my imperfect understanding the SCOTUS did require that there be "probable cause" for searches, but noted that the threshold is quite low.

However the court added that restrictions still exist: "We have held that checkpoint searches are constitutional only if justified by consent or probable cause to search" (though the court did hold that the probable cause bar was low for permanent checkpoints with limited impact on motorists). The Court also held, "our holding today is limited to the type of stops described in this opinion. -[A]ny further detention...must be based on consent or probable cause. Our prior cases have limited significantly the reach of this congressional authorization, requiring probable cause for any vehicle search in the interior and reasonable suspicion for inquiry stops by roving patrols [as opposed to permanent checkpoints]." 428 U.S. 543, 567 (1976).

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Cairenn

Senior Member.
In 2 years there were a total of 6,500 seizures. Were many of them for very weak reasons? I sure, that is true of many searches. Like when my friend and I were stopped for having a burned out taillight. We were in a small east Texas town, both of us were white women in our 50s. She was driving a minivan. But yet they wanted to search for drugs. Since we really didn't fit any profile of drug dealers/runners, we think he objected to her bumper sticker "The Goddess is alive and her magic surrounds us.' It was nothing but harassment.
 

Clock

Senior Member.
Everytime Collar says we are speechless, we debunk it. Your "in your face" strategy isn't working, dude.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
BlueCollarCritic, I think you would be hardpressed to find someone here who agrees with the DHS overstepping their authority, especially in this manner. It seems you think debunkers are this group of drones who believe the government is this peachy, loving organization looking out for us every step of the way. We simply realize that the vast majority of the government isn't involved in anything that is remotely evil, and similarly the vast majority of absurd claims made about it usually aren't true. I firmly believe the DHS needs to be reigned in, if for no reason we're spending absurd quantities of money on what amounts to security theater in a lot of cases.
 
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