Debunked: "we should have stopped the nuclear program of Israel" ... JFK

[Mick West]

This fake quote, attributed to JFK, has been cropping up quite a bit on Facebook:
[bunk]One day after I am long gone, you will remember me and say, we should have stopped the nuclear program of Israel, abolished the Federal Reserve and kicked all secret societies, occultists, usurpers and Zionists out of our wonderful country, to keep it that way, but it is never too late, just remember that.[/bunk]

It even has an image version:

How do we know it's fake? Quite simply because there is no record of the quote ever existing before 2011. It's not in any book, nor in the Presidential records (which list every speech JFK ever gave). It appears almost exclusively on Facebook and on anti-Zionist sites.

 

[Unregistered]

It doesnt mean its wrong...

 

[Mick West]

It doesnt mean its wrong...

That's entirely besides the point. The point is that it's fake, and he never said it, or anything like it.

Do you think it's okay to make up things, and claim that people said them, just because YOU agree with them? You think it's okay to change history, just because you personally think someone should have said something?

 

[Unregistered]

This fake quote, attributed to JFK, has been cropping up quite a bit on Facebook:
[bunk]One day after I am long gone, you will remember me and say, we should have stopped the nuclear program of Israel, abolished the Federal Reserve and kicked all secret societies, occultists, usurpers and Zionists out of our wonderful country, to keep it that way, but it is never too late, just remember that.[/bunk]

It even has an image version:

How do we know it's fake? Quite simply because there is no record of the quote ever existing before 2011. It's not in any book, nor in the Presidential records (which list every speech JFK ever gave). It appears almost exclusively on Facebook and on anti-Zionist sites.

That is very good to know. Clearly however Kennedy was very concerned about the Israeli nuclear program, all issues w the false quote aside : http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/hebrew/index.html

 

[Unregistered]

Also this... http://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1961-63v18/d252

 

[themroc]

How do we know it's fake? Quite simply because there is no record of the quote ever existing before 2011. It's not in any book, nor in the Presidential records (which list every speech JFK ever gave).

Perhaps JFK said it in private and someone wrote in his diary which was discovered recently. You simply can't prove a negative, so you don't know its fake, you just believe it.

 

[Cairenn]

Then where is this diary published? Or who says that they heard him say it?

Why did it only show up in 2011? Where did it first show up and where did they say it came from?

Until there is SOMETHING to indicate that he might have said it, it is FALSE.

 

[Bruno D.]

Then where is this diary published? Or who says that they heard him say it?

Why did it only show up in 2011? Where did it first show up and where did they say it came from?

Until there is SOMETHING to indicate that he might have said it, it is FALSE.

Schrodinger's cat here. As there's no evidence to one truth or the other, you can't say that he said that or that he didn't say that.

Therefore you should never state that this phrase is from him and also you shouldn't say it's false.

I agree with Mick, as it's not possible to state that he said that, the affirmative that he said that is wrong, and need to be debunked.

 

[themroc]

Why did it only show up in 2011?

Michael: "Hey Mom, look what i found in the attic: Grampas diary! Did you know he had JFK to dinner? JFK said amazing things, gotta post 'em on the internet."
Mom: "Look, Mikey, Grampa was not into this conspiracy stuff, he probably wouldn't want to have his good name attached to this."
Michael: "So i'll post it anonymously, the world oughta know this! May i? Please... PLEASE!!!"
Mom: [sighs] "Ok, go on if you have to..."
Narrator: "And little Mikey posted it to his favorite Web Forum. Unfortunately, the site hosting this forum has

User-agent: *
Disallow: /

in its robots.txt file, so researchers can't find his posting with google or any other major search engine."

 

[Trigger Hippie]

You simply can't prove a negative, so you don't know its fake, you just believe it.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Are you suggesting that one should believe in all quotes because you can't prove they're fake?

 

[Cairenn]

First one would need to show that Grandpa had JFK to dinner. If not, then the journal is most likely counterfeit.

There was the scandal of the 'Hitler Diaries' from a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries

 

[themroc]

That doesn't make any sense to me. Are you suggesting that one should believe in all quotes because you can't prove they're fake?

No. I'm merely suggesting that you should not claim to know something when you only believe it.

 

[Cairenn]

Then I may not be alive, I BELIEVE I am. That seems to be silly to me.

Knowledge is based on facts, if there is NO record of someone saying something, there is no reason to consider that they MIGHT have said it. It has to be dismissed, until such time as there is a basis to say it is true.

 

[MikeC]

Perhaps JFK said it in private and someone wrote in his diary which was discovered recently. You simply can't prove a negative, so you don't know its fake, you just believe it.

If it is a quote then it must be referenced to a source that can be verified - I know this

It is not referenced to anything that has been verified - I know this too.

Ergo it is fake - and because I know the premises I know this too.

Sorry to burst your bigoted bubble.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

No. I'm merely suggesting that you should not claim to know something when you only believe it.

How about if we say that for the time being, based on available evidence, we can conclude the JFK quote above is not true.

 

[themroc]

If it is a quote then it must be referenced to a source that can be verified - I know this

No, you just made it up. In the definitions of "quote" i know there's no such requirement:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quote

Sorry to burst your bigoted bubble.

 

[David Fraser]

No, you just made it up. In the definitions of "quote" i know there's no such requirement:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quote

Definitions 1 to 4 cover what MickC said.

 

[themroc]

How about if we say that for the time being, based on available evidence, we can conclude the JFK quote above is not true.

Negative. Based on available evidence (none), we can conclude that we do not know. My guess: its probably fake, i don't think he would have uttered that illuminati-stuff.

 

[themroc]

Definitions 1 to 4 cover what MickC said.

He said "a source that can be verified". There's nothing like that in definitions 1-4.

 

[Melbury's Brick]

themroc;48454]Perhaps JFK said it in private and someone wrote in his diary which was discovered recently. You simply can't prove a negative, so you don't know its fake, you just believe it.

Mother Theresa once claimed "I like nothing more than to chill on a Saturday night, crack a bottle of Jack Daniels, and play 'hide the sausage' with the local football team."


"I slit the sheet, the sheet I slit, and on the slitted sheet I sit."...... Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin.


Oh....and my great great grandfather could fly....my cousin told me....read it in the old man's diary.......

 

[Ron A]

I would like to know from Mike West, since he said
"....... because there is no record of the quote ever existing before 2011" and "It appears almost exclusively on Facebook and on anti-Zionist sites."
1) Where did he first find it in 2011? I would like some verifiable sources to judge the legitimacy of his assertion, and
2) since he said "ALMOST exclusively.... " where else was it found that were NOT Facebook or "anti-Zionist" websites? (which in and of itself is a judgemental assertion we should be allowed to make for ourselves had we been given such sites to verify the veracity of that label)

 

[Mick West]

I would like to know from Mike West, since he said
"....... because there is no record of the quote ever existing before 2011" and "It appears almost exclusively on Facebook and on anti-Zionist sites."
1) Where did he first find it in 2011? I would like some verifiable sources to judge the legitimacy of his assertion, and
2) since he said "ALMOST exclusively.... " where else was it found that were NOT Facebook or "anti-Zionist" websites? (which in and of itself is a judgemental assertion we should be allowed to make for ourselves had we been given such sites to verify the veracity of that label)

Actually I can't find any in 2011 now, however facebook posts are not indexed by Google.

There are several in 2012, example:
http://biblebelieversnewsletter.blogspot.com/2012/09/debunking-seventh-angel-and-his-message.html

Including some that are pro-Zionist
http://onlyinamericablogging.blogspot.com/2012/04/christians-united-for-israel-one.html

Here's a search for posts in 2012 or before:
https://www.google.com/search?q="ki...ce=lnt&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:,cd_max:1/1/2013&tbm=

Note that the pre 2012 dates listed there don't actually go to pre-2012 pages, the dates are incorrect, or the text is in a new comment on an old post. Visit each individual page to verify it.

 

[Jeremy]

People who believe this are, of course, completely clueless about JFK's actual views on Israel (in reality, he was the founder of the US-Israeli military alliance).

RFK was adamantly pro-Israel, too.

 

[Babylon Slim]

I Was In 4th grade when President Kennedy was killed. My dad and I were touched especially because he had a young son as well. It was my political awakening. In school(s) & later on my own, I've studied, researched this man. The point is, this is Somthing he would not have said - regardless of how he (may or may not) secretly felt.
It was an age where a public figure was defined and displined - especially this educated man. When he was alive, Conspiracy wonks Had no credibility. JFK was for The Fed and supported The Young Israel State.
When I saw the meme with his portrait and the phrase - I knew it was false. This is why I am so glad to have an alternative "Go To" Site For debunking To Snopes (nothing wrong with Snopes, mind you... just the more the merrier.
Thanks

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Not rock solid of course, but the illiterate style is a clue that this is a counterfeit written by an illiterate person. The Dunning-Kruger effect* would insure that the incompetent faker wouldn't realize that his graceless fake quotation doesn't match the style of the eloquent JFK.

One day after I am long gone, you...
who? the people alive when he's saying this? wouldn't they be gone too? should make it clear he is talking to posterity

will remember me and say, we...
"me" and "we." pronouns don't agree.

...should have stopped the nuclear program of Israel, abolished the Federal Reserve and kicked...
uncharacteristic usage

...all secret societies, occultists, usurpers and Zionists out of our wonderful country, to keep it that way,...
"keep it that way" seems to refer to "wonderful" but it's clumsy

...but it is never too late, just remember that.
but it will never be too late

It's also one long, clumsy sentence. Typical of children and illiterate adults.

*In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.