Debunked: The Harmful Effects of Marijuana - Dr. Sanjay Gupta

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html

A very interesting story, as it has an "official story", which is generally disbelieved, and now looks like being on the road to being entirely discounted. Marijuana is essentially legal in California, and partially or actually legal in other smaller states. It's the end game for this particular prohibition.

Why is marijuana demonized? Who benefits from this?

The war on drugs has been filling prisons. Some people benefit from that. It also makes a lot of money for some people in Central America.

Lots of room for conspiracy theories, but also just plain old fashioned greed, graft, and inertia. I think the position wasn't changed because it was simply not in the interests of those who could change it to do so.
 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
A major player in keeping weed illegal has been law enforcement themselves. In the UK there are still some fairly entrenched ideas especially with the concept if its potential as a "gateway drug". While there are studies for either side of the argument it would seem that social conditions may gave more of an effect. e.g. The number of people presenting with heroin addiction is decreasing especially within the younger age groups. A reason for this is the view among the young that heroin is seen as a nasty drug. Gateway theory does not take account of that.

I think there is a definite shift happening within law enforcement and certainly in ny area cannabis use is tolerated and they shift resources to big farms and dealers. However I think we are years away from even a conversation about legalisation.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Dr. Gupta was on Wolf Blizter last night, and talked about there still being the need for caution with young people and their developing brains, said even for people as old as 25.

I agree that it should be legal but doing so isn't going to end the cartels making money. I would hate to see the U.S. in a way legitimize the cartels. California and other states that have had medical marijuana for years now, have had the time to develop the infrastructure to allow those states to easily transition to full legalization. The majority of people in the U.S. still smoke weed from Mexico, legalizing it here isn't going to make that smuggled weed legal, so those who depend on that source of weed will still being breaking the law if the weed can't be taxed.

I'd like to see every state and the feds go the medicinal route first, with the intent of legalization within a certain time period, so each state can start to be able to supply their own product. I would also hate to see legitimate patients who really need it to have the price of their weed suddenly double in price because the locally gown weed is now being shipped across the country for a higher profit.

There is still a lot of bunk in the marijuana debate though. A friend posted this the other day.
248226.jpg
If I did my math right and we take the best case that, all 300 gallons of oil can be turned into fuel for gasoline engines.
The U.S. consumed 3,175,500,000 barrels of motor gasoline in 2012. The 300 gallons per acres is roughly 7 barrels per acres per year. Comes out to roughly 453.6 million acres of land needed to grow the equivalent fuel source. That is an area greater than the states of Alaska, Texas and California combined.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/us_oil.cfm
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/geo_lan_acr_tot-geography-land-acreage-total
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
During the BP oil spill, we heard a lot from the 'replace oil with hemp' folks. I had actually thought that it would be a better source for paper, until 'I did the research'. Hemp is not the miracle crop that some claims it to be. I got a lot of good info from the Canadian Hemp growers association. The cultivation of commercial hemp requires about the same soil types and water and cultivation as corn and wheat. It does need less pesticides at this time.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
During the BP oil spill, we heard a lot from the 'replace oil with hemp' folks. I had actually thought that it would be a better source for paper, until 'I did the research'. Hemp is not the miracle crop that some claims it to be. I got a lot of good info from the Canadian Hemp growers association. The cultivation of commercial hemp requires about the same soil types and water and cultivation as corn and wheat. It does need less pesticides at this time.
Look at this car made out of hemp:

 

xenon

Active Member
What is up with all these cannabis related patents, and why doesn't someone ask about them?

PATENTS RELATED TO CANNABIS

US Patent 4189491 - Tetrahydrocannabinol in a method of treating glaucoma(full - 1980)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4189491.html

Process for preparing cannabichromene (full - 1982)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4315862/description.html

US Patent 5508037 - Stable suppository formulations effecting bioavailability of Š9 -THC (full - 1996)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5508037/fulltext.html

US Patent 6132762 - Transcutaneous application of marijuana (full - 2000)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6132762/fulltext.html

US Patent 6328992 - Cannabinoid patch and method for cannabis transdermal delivery (full - 2001)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6328992/fulltext.html

US Patent 6383513 - Compositions comprising cannabinoids (nasal spray)(full - 2002)
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6328992/fulltext.html

US Patent Application 20050042172 - Administration of medicaments by vaporisation (full - 2002)

20070151149 - Methods for altering the level of phytochemicals in plant cells by applying wave lengths of light from 400 nm to 700 nm and apparatus therefore (full - 2004)

US Patent Application 2004004905 - Method for producing an extract from cannabis plant matter, containing a tetrahydrocannabinol and a cannabidiol and cannabis extracts (full - 2004)

US Patent 6713048 - ”9 tetrahydrocannabinol (”9 THC) solution metered dose inhalers and methods of use (full - 2004)

US Patent 6974568 - Treatment for cough (full - 2005)

US Patent Application 20050266108 - Methods of purifying cannabinoids from plant material (full - 2005)

US Patent 6949582 - Method of relieving analgesia and reducing inflamation using a cannabinoid delivery topical liniment (full - 2005)

20050070596 - Methods for treatment of inflammatory diseases using CT-3 or analogs thereof (full - 2005)

Method of relieving analgesia and reducing inflamation using a cannabinoid delivery topical liniment (full - 2005)

US Patent 7088914 - Device, method and resistive element for vaporizing a medicament (full - 2006)

US Patent 7025992 - Pharmaceutical formulations (full - 2006)

US Patent Application 20060242899 - Method of cultivating plants(full - 2006)

US Patent 7109245 - Vasoconstrictor cannabinoid analogs (full - 2006)

20080057117 - PHARMACEUTICAL COMPOSITION MADE UP OF CANNIBUS EXTRACTS (full - 2007)

US Patent 7344736 - Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials (full - 2008)

US Patent 7402686 - Cannabinoid crystalline derivatives and process of cannabinoid purification (full - 2008)

US Patent 7399872 - Conversion of CBD to ”-THC and ”-THC (full - 2008)

US Patent 7622140 - Processes and apparatus for extraction of active substances and enriched extracts from natural products (full - 2009)

NEW USE FOR CANNABINOID-CONTAINING PLANT EXTRACTS
Patent application number: 20100249223 (full - 2010)

CANNABINOID-CONTAINING PLANT EXTRACTS AS NEUROPROTECTIVE AGENTS Patent application number: 20100239693(full - 2010)

Full links here:
https://sites.google.com/site/gscmmjlist/home/a/p/patents-related-to-cannabis

"You cant' patent a plant" --Dr. Lester Grinspoon
"We patented the use of the ingredients" -- US DHHS
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I hate to burst a bubble, but the 'Ford hemp car is a myth'.


http://theangryhistorian.blogspot.com/2010/10/hemp-car-myth-busted.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car


http://www.thehenryford.org/research/soybeancar.aspx


 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
No one claimed that the car was 100% hemp.

"Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the fields?"—Henry Ford
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
So you think that claiming that using maybe 10% hemp makes it a 'hemp car'? Seems to me that it was a soybean car, since that is where most of the material came from.

That quote seems to be well loved by the pro hemp crowd, but there is no evidence that he was referring to hemp.

Another quote, that from 2 year earlier

It seems that he was referring to all types of annual crops.

Ford also wanted to see the laboratory replace the cow for milk.

 

Sausalito

Active Member
For what it's worth, I saw this reader's poll on medical marijuana in the New England Journal of Medicine a little while back (I'm a weekly reader, but did not vote):
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMclde1305159
76% voted yea
My obligatory disclaimer: inhalation of any kind of smoke is generally a bad idea, and can have "medically significant" consequences. If you are considering medical cannabis for yourself or someone in your sphere, you may want to look into vaporization. Over.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
No one claimed that the car was 100% hemp.

"Why use up the forests which were centuries in the making and the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest and mineral products in the annual growth of the fields?"—Henry Ford


Edison Botanical Research Company founded by Ford, Edison, and Firestone spent a lot of time looking for a productive annual crop from which to extract natural rubber. They ended up developing a giant goldenrod that yielded 12% rubber.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Ford might have developed his 'plastic' car, but the start of WW II, stopped the production of cars, and removed a lot of younger farmers. After the war, many of the 'farm boys and girls' stayed in the cities and we were supplying a lot of food for both Europe and Japan. So we didn't have the crops to devote to it.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
During the BP oil spill, we heard a lot from the 'replace oil with hemp' folks. I had actually thought that it would be a better source for paper, until 'I did the research'. Hemp is not the miracle crop that some claims it to be. I got a lot of good info from the Canadian Hemp growers association. The cultivation of commercial hemp requires about the same soil types and water and cultivation as corn and wheat. It does need less pesticides at this time.

I thought it was stated it didn't use up as much nutrients from the ground like corn and wheat.
 

muttkat

Banned
Banned
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html

A very interesting story, as it has an "official story", which is generally disbelieved, and now look like being on the road to being entirely discounted. Marijuana is essentially legal in California, and partially or actually legal in other smaller states. It's the end game for this particular prohibition.

Why is marijuana for demonized? Who benefits from this?

The war on drugs has been filling prisons. Some people benefit from that. It also makes a lot of money for some people in Central America.

Lots of room for conspiracy theories, but also just plain old fashioned greed, graft, and inertia. I think the position wasn't changed because it was simply not in the interests of those who could change it to do so.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Personally, I am for legalizing pot for recreational use.

What I object to is the folks that promote hemp as a miracle crop. It isn't. Useful, yes. At one time I thought it might could replace a lot of the wood pulp for paper, but that is not as promising as it could be, it seems.


http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/speccrop/publications/documents/hempinfo.pdf




http://www.hemp-sisters.com/Information/factsheet.htm
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
It makes a good sewerage mop-up plant, it would be nice to not be pumping our sewerage into the sea.
 

PhishyBongwaters

New Member
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html

Lots of room for conspiracy theories, but also just plain old fashioned greed, graft, and inertia. I think the position wasn't changed because it was simply not in the interests of those who could change it to do so.

You can't ignore the power big pharma has over the US government, that plays a huge role in keeping pot illegal. Various conditions can be treated with it, instead of expensive pharmaceuticals. If the US government won't allow Americans access to the same drugs, but cheaper because they are from Canada, why on earth allow a treatment people could produce themselves, for free.

I've seen how it can help patients undergoing chemo first hand. I've seen how it can help keep someone balanced who, once "clean" because psychotic with a chemical imbalance that took various chemicals to fix, the doctor herself saying he was self medicating for years and it had worked.

It's scary to think how many people are in jail right now for simple possession of a plant. A harmless plant. Tylenol kills more people a year.
 

xenon

Active Member
Patents don't mean that much.
Here is one for learning to walk through walls.
http://www.google.com/patents/US20060014125

Well US Patent # 6630507 means a lot to Kannalife, because that company was awarded a slice of it (why award one patent when you can award a thousand)


Cannabinoid Patent Exclusivity Only Applies To One Condition
By Steve Elliott Monday, December 19, 2011
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/12/cannabinoid_patent_exclusivity_only_applies_to_one.php


Exclusive Interview: Dean Petkanas, CEO, KannaLife

(The Company Just Awarded An Exclusive Cannabinoid License By The Federal Government)

The exclusive rights to apply the cannabinoids found in marijuana as therapeutic agents awarded by the U.S. federal government to the firm KannaLife only apply to one specific medical condition, KannaLife's CEO told Toke of the Town Monday night.

Dean Petkanas, chief executive officer at KannaLife Sciences, told us that the exclusivity applies only for the development and sale of cannabinoid based therapeutics as antioxidants and neuroprotectants for use in the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy.

"It is narrowly defined exclusivity, in that field," Petkanas told us. "Our exclusivity is narrowly focused."

Asked if KannaLife planned to get exclusive rights to develop cannabinoids to treat other conditions, Petkanas answered, "At the present time, we have no desire to do that."

In fact, the CEO told me, even if KannaLife wanted to target another condition or conditions for cannabinoid therapy, they'd have to start back at Square One in the application process, a marathon for which he seemed to have little enthusiasm.

But as far as the specific application covered in the exclusive rights -- for treating hepatic encephalopathy -- Petkanas was animated.

"Phytomedicines are the the forefront of treating many diseases," Petkanas told us. "We're looking for specific endpoints."...MORE
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/12/cannabinoid_patent_exclusivity_only_applies_to_one.php

**************************************

Apr 4, 2013
KannaLife in R&D Collaboration for Cannabinoid-Based Drugs

KannaLife Sciences will team up with two drug discovery technology companies in a collaboration designed to develop new cannabinoid-based neuroprotectants. The value of the collaboration was not disclosed.

KannaLife will fund the collaboration with Advanced Neural Dynamics and IteraMed, aimed at drug discovery for a lab-validated phytochemical that has been found to be neuroprotective in cortical neuronal cultures exposed to toxic levels of glutamate or oxidative stress.

The founding science is based on the licensed technology of A.J. Hampson, Ph.D., a neuropharmacologist at the Laboratory of Cellular and Molecular Regulation within NIH’s National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH).

KannaLife holds an exclusive license with NIH’s Office of Technology Transfer to commercialize U.S. Patent 6,630,507, "Cannabinoids as Antioxidants and Neuroprotectants," on October 7, 2003, awarded to Dr Hampson and two other investigators, Nobel laureate Julius Axelrod, Ph.D., (1912–2004) of NIMH, and Maurizio Grimaldi, M.D., Ph.D., leader of the Neuropharmacology/Neuroscience Laboratory at Southern research Institute and co-investigator for the NIH National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke High-Throughput Drug Screening Facility for Neurodegenerative Disease.

The patent covers their discovery that cannabinoids have antioxidant properties unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism, making them useful in treating and protecting the body from a variety of oxidation-associated ischemic, age-related, inflammatory, and autoimmune diseases. The researchers also found the cannabinoids were neuroprotectants, limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and HIV dementia....MORE
http://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-...oration-for-cannabinoid-based-drugs/81248179/

The bottom line is that, while telling the Citizens that "there is no medical use for Marijuana" the Feds were patenting various uses of the plant. If this isn't criminal behavior it should be.
 
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Soulfly

Banned
Banned
You can't ignore the power big pharma has over the US government, that plays a huge role in keeping pot illegal. Various conditions can be treated with it, instead of expensive pharmaceuticals. If the US government won't allow Americans access to the same drugs, but cheaper because they are from Canada, why on earth allow a treatment people could produce themselves, for free.

I've seen how it can help patients undergoing chemo first hand. I've seen how it can help keep someone balanced who, once "clean" because psychotic with a chemical imbalance that took various chemicals to fix, the doctor herself saying he was self medicating for years and it had worked.

It's scary to think how many people are in jail right now for simple possession of a plant. A harmless plant. Tylenol kills more people a year.
Big pharma isn't keeping marijuana illegal. Big pharma has exploited many plants to make medicine and treatments. Smoking weed helps with some symptoms but it hasn't been proven to cure anything. If there is a disease that an active ingredient in marijuana can cure or help with in any significant way it will come when big pharma isolates, distills and creates treatments.

Many people site it helping people with cancer treatments but that is only helping mitigate symptoms like nausea and pain. For a treatment to cancer the cancer cells need to be targeted in a very specific manor. Smoking or ingesting it isn't going to be able to do this. Again it will come when big pharma can find a way to use it to target cancer cells directly.

The government might be saying there is no medical use but big pharma will exploit marijuana once it becomes legal.
It is naive to think they wont take advantage of it becoming legal.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Well US Patent # 6630507 means a lot to Kannalife, because that company was awarded a slice of it (why award one patent when you can award a thousand)


Cannabinoid Patent Exclusivity Only Applies To One Condition
By Steve Elliott Monday, December 19, 2011
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/12/cannabinoid_patent_exclusivity_only_applies_to_one.php


Exclusive Interview: Dean Petkanas, CEO, KannaLife

(The Company Just Awarded An Exclusive Cannabinoid License By The Federal Government)

The exclusive rights to apply the cannabinoids found in marijuana as therapeutic agents awarded by the U.S. federal government to the firm KannaLife only apply to one specific medical condition, KannaLife's CEO told Toke of the Town Monday night.

Dean Petkanas, chief executive officer at KannaLife Sciences, told us that the exclusivity applies only for the development and sale of cannabinoid based therapeutics as antioxidants and neuroprotectants for use in the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy.

"It is narrowly defined exclusivity, in that field," Petkanas told us. "Our exclusivity is narrowly focused."

Asked if KannaLife planned to get exclusive rights to develop cannabinoids to treat other conditions, Petkanas answered, "At the present time, we have no desire to do that."

In fact, the CEO told me, even if KannaLife wanted to target another condition or conditions for cannabinoid therapy, they'd have to start back at Square One in the application process, a marathon for which he seemed to have little enthusiasm.

But as far as the specific application covered in the exclusive rights -- for treating hepatic encephalopathy -- Petkanas was animated.

"Phytomedicines are the the forefront of treating many diseases," Petkanas told us. "We're looking for specific endpoints."...MORE
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/12/cannabinoid_patent_exclusivity_only_applies_to_one.php

**************************************

Apr 4, 2013
KannaLife in R&D Collaboration for Cannabinoid-Based Drugs

KannaLife Sciences will team up with two drug discovery technology companies in a collaboration designed to develop new cannabinoid-based neuroprotectants. The value of the collaboration was not disclosed.

KannaLife will fund the collaboration with Advanced Neural Dynamics and IteraMed, aimed at drug discovery for a lab-validated phytochemical that has been found to be neuroprotective in cortical neuronal cultures exposed to toxic levels of glutamate or oxidative stress.

The founding science is based on the licensed technology of A.J. Hampson, Ph.D., a neuropharmacologist at the Laboratory of Cellular and Molecular Regulation within NIH’s National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH).

KannaLife holds an exclusive license with NIH’s Office of Technology Transfer to commercialize U.S. Patent 6,630,507, "Cannabinoids as Antioxidants and Neuroprotectants," on October 7, 2003, awarded to Dr Hampson and two other investigators, Nobel laureate Julius Axelrod, Ph.D., (1912–2004) of NIMH, and Maurizio Grimaldi, M.D., Ph.D., leader of the Neuropharmacology/Neuroscience Laboratory at Southern research Institute and co-investigator for the NIH National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke High-Throughput Drug Screening Facility for Neurodegenerative Disease.

The patent covers their discovery that cannabinoids have antioxidant properties unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism, making them useful in treating and protecting the body from a variety of oxidation-associated ischemic, age-related, inflammatory, and autoimmune diseases. The researchers also found the cannabinoids were neuroprotectants, limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and HIV dementia....MORE
http://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-...oration-for-cannabinoid-based-drugs/81248179/

The bottom line is that, while telling the Citizens that "there is no medical use for Marijuana" the Feds were patenting various uses of the plant. If this isn't criminal behavior it should be.
There are a lot of patents on cannabinoids, as you have pointed out. Again just because a patent is issued doesn't mean it will get put into use. I would call the support of a government agency a step in the right direction for medical marijuana. But I guess if you have the mindset that anything the government has influence over is evil, then I can see how it would look scary. Right now there are not many people or corporations with large sums of money willing to invest in research and/or the development of cannabis medicines.

I completely agree that the feds seem to be doing a double dance and need to change their stance and it appears that, at least the NIH has.

More research and uses for cannabis is what everyone wants right?
 
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PhishyBongwaters

New Member
Big pharma isn't keeping marijuana illegal. Big pharma has exploited many plants to make medicine and treatments. Smoking weed helps with some symptoms but it hasn't been proven to cure anything. If there is a disease that an active ingredient in marijuana can cure or help with in any significant way it will come when big pharma isolates, distills and creates treatments.

Many people site it helping people with cancer treatments but that is only helping mitigate symptoms like nausea and pain. For a treatment to cancer the cancer cells need to be targeted in a very specific manor. Smoking or ingesting it isn't going to be able to do this. Again it will come when big pharma can find a way to use it to target cancer cells directly.

The government might be saying there is no medical use but big pharma will exploit marijuana once it becomes legal.
It is naive to think they wont take advantage of it becoming legal.

Actually you are wrong, cannabinoids have been studied indepth and they have the ability to shrink some types of cancerous tumors. Treating symptoms of course is a huge deal, considering how cheaply it can be made, and how safe it is compared to the pharmaceutical counterparts. the anti-nausea drug they give you after chem treatments, for example, can be replaced with cannabis without any of the harmful side effects. As well, smoking cannabis is actually the least efficient means of getting it into the system.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12088.php

big pharma can't compete with my empty closet, it really is that simple. i can grow my own medicine, how can they expect to force me to pay 500$ a pill for theirs? Buy applying pressure through lobbyists, which is exactly what they are doing.

I do agree though, any commercial applications of cannabis for medical purposes will probably be coming from the same big pharma companies out there. the problem with that is, they can't patent it, so they will either have to genetically engineer it, or create a synthetic version.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Actually you are wrong, cannabinoids have been studied indepth and they have the ability to shrink some types of cancerous tumors. Treating symptoms of course is a huge deal, considering how cheaply it can be made, and how safe it is compared to the pharmaceutical counterparts. the anti-nausea drug they give you after chem treatments, for example, can be replaced with cannabis without any of the harmful side effects. As well, smoking cannabis is actually the least efficient means of getting it into the system.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12088.php

big pharma can't compete with my empty closet, it really is that simple. i can grow my own medicine, how can they expect to force me to pay 500$ a pill for theirs? Buy applying pressure through lobbyists, which is exactly what they are doing.

I do agree though, any commercial applications of cannabis for medical purposes will probably be coming from the same big pharma companies out there. the problem with that is, they can't patent it, so they will either have to genetically engineer it, or create a synthetic version.

Do you really expect every cancer patient to grow their own marijuana?

If medicinal cannabis becomes legal then (hopefully) Doctors will be able to provide patients with prescriptions instead of just recommendations. I want people who actually will benefit from simple smoking of cannabis to be able to have this medicine covered through their insurance. (I also don't want that abused by people who don't really need it for medical reasons.) What is stopping pharma from starting grows of their own? If you are sick and undergoing treatments that make you sick and you can't afford to grow or pay for cannabis then pharma can and will step in to help provide those patients.

Big pharma is losing out on some, by people spending their money on cannabis instead of prescription drugs. but if it is going to be prescribed to people legitimately then I think it should come through pharma so insurance companies can cover it for those who really need it. I think they stand to make up for that loss big time or at least reduce it greatly.

If you were undergoing chemo...
Would you want to worry about growing your own?
Would you want to get your medicine from any old Joe Schmoe who has a couple thousand dollar grow set up in his spare bedroom?
Would you want to have your insurance company cover the cannabis pharma has grown in a multi-million dollar laboratory grade grow facility?
 
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Soulfly

Banned
Banned
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12088.php

This doesn't mean that inhaling or ingesting cannabis is going to give the same effect. It doesn't exclude it either. This study shows that treatments will most likely come from directly targeting tumors or cancer cells, just like most current cancer treatments.

I don't make the assumption that a treatment like this for cancers, that could possibly replace a current treatment, will automatically be cheaper.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
You could drink willow bark tea for a headache, but aspirin is more effective. Many drugs have been developed from plant sources. The drug is stronger and it will often lack some 'problems' that the plant source has (willow bark tea is bitter).

One problem that I see with Cannabis is the one that shows up with many plant based medicines, lots of opposition from the folks that promote them, because of the worry that once 'big pharma' gets 'it's money grubbing hands on it' that it will become unavailable in it's natural form. The pharmaceutical companies are concerned if spending millions on the research will be able to make money for them (a company that doesn't make money, soon dies from 'starvation')>
 

Clock

Senior Member.
I could care less about cannabis, (if you smoke it, good for you, if you don't, good for you too) but there's no convincing reason for it to be legal in order to be consumed on a daily basis, like alcohol. Hemp could be a good potential for alternative energies.
 

qed

Senior Member
It would appear that the current cannabis laws in some US states are in violation of international law.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs
 

qed

Senior Member
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html



Why is marijuana for demonized? Who benefits from this?

The war on drugs has been filling prisons. Some people benefit from that. It also makes a lot of money for some people in Central America.

Lots of room for conspiracy theories, but also just plain old fashioned greed, graft, and inertia. I think the position wasn't changed because it was simply not in the interests of those who could change it to do so.
I generally agree. I meant to post a response to this much much sooner, but I've been very busy lately.....

Before you begin reading understand that anytime I use the world "safe", that I am mean "safe for consumption in typical quantities under ordinary circumstances"
It is rather funny to think that there was once a debate on whether or not cigarettes were safe, and now it's a widely accepted fact that they are not. Cigarettes and all of their additives were mostly legal since their introduction into the mainstream. There was no process that cigarettes had to go through to be deemed safe. We just assumed that they were, and only through years of research did we finally determine that they are not. Pot on the other hand is still going through the process of determining whether it is safe. Only now that the public opinion has finally been swayed toward the legalization of marijuana are people like Dr. Gupta allowed to express their professional opinion about marijuana on CNN. If he or someone in his position had said this 10 years ago, there is a good chance he would have destroyed his career and any future prospects he may have had in the medial/scientific field..... like The Surgeon General

Perhaps the skeptics can take this as a valuable lesson in being skeptical. As has been stated, we have an entire judicial system that profits off of criminalization of weed. The Booze industry has been working to subvert drug policy obviously because it threatens the sales of their products. And as we are discovering the medicinal benefits of marijuana, it is very likely big pharma would have their reasons to want to keep marijuana illegal. So long as people have financial interests in keeping marijuana illegal, there will be lots of propaganda to demonize it, and something that I have learned time and again is not to trust people when money is involved. In a capitalist world where people are so easily influenced by money, it becomes very difficult to figure out who to trust. The 'natural foods' industry are incentivized to tell you that artificial ingredients are bad for you while the people who make those artificial ingredients are incentivized to tell you that they are safe.


It's like when I took my car to get it's first oil change last week. My manual says to change it when the sensor alerts the driver which is between 7,500 - 10,000 miles for most drivers. The dealership's service dept of course said I should change it every 5,000 miles regardless. Both the manufacturer and the service dept are authorities on the subject. The former builds cars, the latter fixes them. The variable is that one of these parties are incentivized to sell you more oil changes.



Science holds itself to a high standard of proof, and the problem here is that it is very difficult for an individual to determine the dangers (or lack thereof). The scientific method depends on repeatability, and not every smoker is going to get cancer so it can take years to finally produce the scientific evidence needed to determine the risks. The problem that I often see is that there are substances that we assume that are safe by default and must go through a rigorous process to determine that they are not safe, while we assume that other substances are unsafe by default and must go though a rigorous process to determine that they are safe. So what I ask is what should our presumptions be without evidence supporting either side of the argument?

Scientifically, I suppose we shouldn't assume anything, but I'm not sure how that can work for the food and drug industry.

"If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say." - Winston Zeddemore
 

cheeple

Member
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/index.html

A very interesting story, as it has an "official story", which is generally disbelieved, and now look like being on the road to being entirely discounted. Marijuana is essentially legal in California, and partially or actually legal in other smaller states. It's the end game for this particular prohibition.

Why is marijuana for demonized? Who benefits from this?

The war on drugs has been filling prisons. Some people benefit from that. It also makes a lot of money for some people in Central America.

Lots of room for conspiracy theories, but also just plain old fashioned greed, graft, and inertia. I think the position wasn't changed because it was simply not in the interests of those who could change it to do so.
Thanks for the topic mick, as it just so happens I got my cannabis card and started cannabis therapy 3 weeks ago, since then I have lost weight, increased muscle tone and I no longer have high blood pressure, no longer am diabetic nor borderline diabetic, improved cholesterol and have reversed my chronic kidney disease from Stage 3 CKD to "normal" according to my doctor and I will post my lab results as proof below is my blood glucose, anything over 130 is full diabetic:

NameStandard range4/21/20093/8/20119/6/2013
Glucose, fasting 120 176 81*

Cholesterol is at it's lowest point in years below:

Cholesterol<=239 mg/dL 216 204 219 193*
specificially LDL (bad cholesterol) is down

Low density lipoprotein calculated 158 149 167 140 *
HDL (good cholesterol) is up 46 41 39 43*
HDL>=40 mg/dL46413943

Below is my createnine showing kidney health similar to 2009 levels before CKD

Creatinine<=1.34 mg/dL1.23 1.40 1.34 1.44 1.26*


Those are my lab results copy/pasted directly from the kp.org website, I havent altered anything and the data is irrefutible, I have alot of other improvements also which I can share later but since they cannot be verified by science, I will share it with those who accept my personal testimony.

My cannabis therapy is as follows

6:00 a.m. cbd tincture

9:00 a.m. bowl of hemp hearts

3:00 p.m. cbd tincture

7:00 2-3 puffs of cannabis sativa flower

10:00 p.m. Hemp Protein shake and cbd/thc combo tincture

i've been refining this for 3 weeks and am 100% pharmakopia free.
 

cheeple

Member
Dr. Gupta was on Wolf Blizter last night, and talked about there still being the need for caution with young people and their developing brains, said even for people as old as 25.

I agree that it should be legal but doing so isn't going to end the cartels making money. I would hate to see the U.S. in a way legitimize the cartels. California and other states that have had medical marijuana for years now, have had the time to develop the infrastructure to allow those states to easily transition to full legalization. The majority of people in the U.S. still smoke weed from Mexico, legalizing it here isn't going to make that smuggled weed legal, so those who depend on that source of weed will still being breaking the law if the weed can't be taxed.

I'd like to see every state and the feds go the medicinal route first, with the intent of legalization within a certain time period, so each state can start to be able to supply their own product. I would also hate to see legitimate patients who really need it to have the price of their weed suddenly double in price because the locally gown weed is now being shipped across the country for a higher profit.

There is still a lot of bunk in the marijuana debate though. A friend posted this the other day.
View attachment 3892
If I did my math right and we take the best case that, all 300 gallons of oil can be turned into fuel for gasoline engines.
The U.S. consumed 3,175,500,000 barrels of motor gasoline in 2012. The 300 gallons per acres is roughly 7 barrels per acres per year. Comes out to roughly 453.6 million acres of land needed to grow the equivalent fuel source. That is an area greater than the states of Alaska, Texas and California combined.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/us_oil.cfm
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/geo_lan_acr_tot-geography-land-acreage-total
good post and i can personally testify as a cannabis card holder in california the price DOES go down, a gram of cannabis has a street value of $20 per gram, I pay $14 to $16 per gram depending on the strain, what I buy has been tested for purity by an independent lab, on the east coast they take immature bud shipped from elsewhere and sometimes spray it with raid then irradiate it in the microwave to dry it out, buying it on the street is unsafe. I like your road to roota legalizing for medical use first then fully legal, but it's industrial hemp legalization that will be the true precursor for the unhinged, unadulterated full legalization of this medicinal herb, I buy my hemp from whole foods legally, but the seeds have to be imported from Canada before they can be sold here, makes no sense except when you realize if industrial hemp is grown here in sufficient numbers it can replace a big part of more than one major industries, and thats a threat, infact those dont do drugs commercials you see those are by "Partnership for a drug free america" which is funded by the beer and alcohol lobby, they are driving people to drink for recreation which alcahol is responsible for a myriad of disease both mental and physical while cannabis can only heal according to it's nature as a true medicinal herb.
 

cheeple

Member
[/quote]

Love the quote above, and it's true I personally have eliminated cows milk from my diet and replaced it with hemp milk, hemp milk has a nutritional profile similar to breast milk, infact breast milk contains cannabinoids so it can be said breast milk has a nutritional profile comparable to HEMP not the other way around.
 

cheeple

Member
we might be witnessesing the beginning of states assuming they're rightful role to regulate themselves, we also saw Eric Holder say he would not prosecute anyone using cannabis within the scope of they're states laws. I used to think these UN and obama administration types were all powerful, but they're not, and once millions of households start growing it, using it, and sharing it, no law aside from an orwellian style capital punishment for having or using this plant will work, they're even planting industrial hemp in colorado now for the first time since the einsenhower administration.
 

cheeple

Member
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12088.php

This doesn't mean that inhaling or ingesting cannabis is going to give the same effect. It doesn't exclude it either. This study shows that treatments will most likely come from directly targeting tumors or cancer cells, just like most current cancer treatments.

I don't make the assumption that a treatment like this for cancers, that could possibly replace a current treatment, will automatically be cheaper.
Yeah smoking cannabis wont cure cancer but smoking does have it's own pro's for certain ailments like MS, Parkinsons, depression, insomnia, and smoking allows to make adjusting the titration easier, in order to cure cancer it has to be ingested in the form of cannabis oil or sometimes referred to as "Rick simpson oil", please watch Run from the cure
 

Dan Wilson

Senior Member.
Yeah smoking cannabis wont cure cancer but smoking does have it's own pro's for certain ailments like MS, Parkinsons, depression, insomnia, and smoking allows to make adjusting the titration easier,

Smoking to alleviate those symptoms will also increase your risk of other diseases including cancer. Smoking anything is usually a bad health choice, so that would just be a drawback to consider when making the decision whether or not to use it as a supplement to other disease therapies. In fact, it is advised that it be recommended only under close supervision and to patients who haven't responded to other treatments.

in order to cure cancer it has to be ingested in the form of cannabis oil or sometimes referred to as "Rick simpson oil"

That's quite a broad statement to make, cancer comes in many forms. Although there is evidence that it can shrink some animal tumors in vivo and human tumors in vitro, the evidence for curing patients of cancer is purely anecdotal. Right now the evidence for medical marijuana suggests it could be a useful supplement that can be offered to patients who are suffering. Not a cure for cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3628147/#!po=87.8378
http://ohiopatientsnetwork.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124:medical-ma..
 

cheeple

Member
Smoking to alleviate those symptoms will also increase your risk of other diseases including cancer..
.
no cannabis doesn't increase chances of cancer, that's reefer madness........


]That's quite a broad statement to make, cancer comes in many forms.

yes I know cannabis cures a panacea of ailments, I myself cures myself of High BP, Diabetes, High Cholesterol, Stage 3 chronic kidney disease, sleep apnea, caffeine addiction, yellow eyes, and that's just what I know of..............
 
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