Debunked: Suffolk County, NY Geoengineering Law

firepilot

Senior Member.
There are going to be some crying chemmies, I thought some of them were on the edge of tears when speaking to begin with. Now with her putting the smackdown on the legislation for being so bad, and unenforceable.

Oh she just was called a coward!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
She's telling them to do some research. Now that's going to make them mad.

But she's (Sarah Anker) doing it nicely. It would actually be a good thing if they do some more research.

"#1 - are they doing it, and who are "they""
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
Eddington sounds pretty sympathetic, I think he has fallen into the meme about longer lasting contrails being spraying.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Eddington sounds pretty sympathetic, I think he has fallen into the meme about longer lasting contrails being spraying.
He is trying to be responsive. It's a difficult position for a public servant to serve unreasonable masters who believe in conspiracy theories. How responsive should public servants be when their constituents want to ban unicorns, but won't show proof that unicorns exist?

Eddington mentioned getting the FAA to speak with the chemmies, but they have done that repeatedly, and were rejected.
There is no happy ending for believers in chemtrails. They have been ensnared in a cage of conundrums from which there is no escape until they find their own way out. Hopefully this sort of disappointment doesn't lead towards more radicalization like we see happening in Australia.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's the Long Island Skywatch reaction:

Longislandskywatch would like to thank everyone who supported our efforts to get i.R. 2029 passed by the health committee on december 15, 2011. Unfortunately, this did not happen. We would like to thank the health committee for hearing our petitions and their indepth explanations as to why this proposal could not become law as it stands. We would especially like to thank health committee chairman, Kate Browning for voting to approve this legislation and standing up for her beliefs even though she stood alone.

This is not a defeat; it is a milestone. We the people were heard and it is not over. It is just beginning. Through this process, we have met amazing people and are no longer a small group. We have grown in numbers and we now have a relationship with the people who represent us. They offered us suggestions on how to proceed and we will take their advice and come back stronger.

The major reason for the defeat of this proposal was that suffolk county cannot overide state, federal and faa regulations pertaining to air quality and aircraft emissions. Air quality falls under the department of environmental conservation. The other reason was cost, manpower and the method of monitoring "releases."

Our legislators became aware that "something" is going on and they now want to investigate further as they see it with their own eyes. This in itself is a victory. It is the responsibility of everyone who is aware to inform others. It must start at the bottom. Go local. Bring studies. Test your water, soil, trees and blood and bring it to your local representatives.

Longislandskywatch is asking everyone to stay strong in our struggle to make people aware of the the truth of geoengeering/chemtrails. We are asking everyone to have a blood analysis done to test for aluminum, barium and strontium. The results of these tests will give us more proof to bring back to our legislators. We are also asking people to meet with their individual legislators and make them aware of these programs......Finally, we would like to thank legislator romaine for having the courage to put this proposal forth.

Thank you all for your courage and participation,

Longislandskywatch

Hopefully if enough people get blood tests, they will eventually realized that they all have normal levels of those metals. Of course that depends on who does the tests. Don't get a test from someone trying to see you an ionic foot bath!
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
I think you are giving them too much credit and assuming that they can be logical, or assuming that they can understand the different between causal, or correlation.
 

tryblinking

Senior Member.
I know it's a long shot, but hearing about this after the fact, is there even a small chance I can find the video from this meeting? Ifnot, I guess the audio above will do :)
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
A transcript of the December 6th, 2011 General meeting is now available online:
The relevant testimony begins on page 88.

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/gmeet/2011/GM120611.pdf

A transcript of the December 15th, 2011, Health Committee hearing is now available on line:

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/hh/2011/HT121511.pdf

The relevant citizen testimony begins on page 10, and the Health Department and Legislator'
responses begin on page 27.

Essentially the Bill failed because no state or local entity has jurisdiction to regulate emissions from aircraft, based on the Clean Air Act.

Other reasons given were vagueness of the bill, and the estimated cost of nearly $1 million dollars to monitor and enforce such a law. Lastly, the Health Department found out that chemtrails don't exist.

One Final Note:
Both Long Island Skywatch and Siobhan Ciresi have removed all mention of the failure of the Bill to pass on December 15th from their respective websites:

http://www.humanitytranscending.com/id9.html

http://www.longislandskywatch.com/

It is as if the events have been sucked down a memory hole.....
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
It looks like another group has tried to get a resolution passed before the Fairfax, California Town Council.
According to the article comments by Mauro Oliveira of geoengineering watch.com, the measure did not pass.
http://www.pacificsun.com/story.php?story_id=5162


I'm not so sure about that, and could not complete a download of the audio from the session:
http://www.town-of-fairfax.org/html/council_archive_2012.html

Here was the text of the resolution:
http://www.town-of-fairfax.org/pdfs...t/2012/011112/Item 16 Chem Free Zone Reso.pdf

It sounds like Rosalind Peterson was one of the prime promoters of this.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I just listened to the Fairfax audio. There was just a long public comment section where the usual misconceptions were brought up about contrail persistence, and WITWATS was mentioned several times. About 8 people spoke. Seem like former council member Lew Tremaine was the prime mover.

Several people said that using the word "chemtrails" was a mistake (referencing Peterson), and that they should use "geoengineering".

After the public comment section, the major (Pam Hartwell-Herrero) requested another month to re-work the proposal, and will bring it back in February. There was no staff or council discussion or questions.

Here's the relevant audio:

https://www.metabunk.org/files/Fairfax chemtrail resolution Jan 11th 2012.mp3

And a related article, with a poll:

http://sananselmofairfax.patch.com/articles/fairfax-prepares-anti-chemtrail-resolution
 
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E

East End LI Native

Guest
Siobhan Ciresi's website makes the following statement:

What Ciresi did not get was that these footnotes explain that under ordinary water pH levels, aluminum is present in multiple compounds which include natural clays formed from aluminosilicate minerals and natural aluminum oxides which are ordinarily inert and harmless because they are not aluminum as aluminum hydroxide or in a soluble form as aluminum +++ ions.*

I discovered this site because some "friends" on Facebook keep posting hysterical chemtrail videos.

I found the quote above interesting because I live in Suffolk county and we have a LOT of ponds. They are called percolating ponds. These ponds are kettleholes that have CLAY BOTTOMS which hold water (until it percolates down into the ground). They have no source other than rain or runoff.

I know Ed Romaine, he is a member of a group I serve on the board of directors for. I will definitely be speaking to him about this ridiculous bill, if I don't read further and find out that he's figured it out for himself.
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
Here is a written agenda of the Failfax-hearing in January:

http://www.town-of-fairfax.org/pdfs/council/council_packet/2012/030712/Item 3 TC Minutes 1-11-12.pdf

The important part is, that the mayor dicedes to continue in february, to give them time to rework the resolution. But in the meetings in february, this resolution isn´t mentioned anywhere.

It seems that they want to rewrite in an Anti-geoengineering-resolution, that doesn´t mention the word "chemtrail" anymore.

besides of that, some chemtrail-blogs posted the "fact" that Fairfax is now a chemtrail-free city, presenting the unsignd resolution from Januar without regarding the agenda or mp3. Aircrop.org did so, for example.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I a recent audio interview, Michael J. Murphy is falsely claiming that the Suffolk County Ordinance effort was successful when the fact is that it was wholly rejected by the County.

Michael J. Murphy said:
@ 34:30 Cindy with Long Island Skywatch got concerned and decided to start an ordinance, so its wonderful .... and they passed the first part of their County Ordinance and so we worked with them in terms of how we are going to put this together.

These are desperation tactics to bolster support from people who he hopes will simply accept what he is telling them, however false his statements may be.
The guy seems to have no conscience or shame about misinforming people, and his record shows it.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Have there been any specific tests made of contrail vapors to prove or disprove your theory that this is a hoax?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Have there been any specific tests made of contrail vapors to prove or disprove your theory that this is a hoax?

How could a test prove that it is a hoax? If you test some trails and they come up as contrails, then the theorists would just say you tested the wrong trails.

They are the ones who need to produce evidence. It's their theory. All I'm saying is their theory has no evidence. I don't need to prove any alternative theory.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
How could a test prove that it is a hoax? If you test some trails and they come up as contrails, then the theorists would just say you tested the wrong trails.

Unregistered,

Before you could actually go up and test a "chemtrail", you would have to identify which planes were making them. Otherwise, you would just be aimlessly flying around.
What is needed is a large scale project in which ordinary people can participate to identify what planes are being seen. I have developed such a plan.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/100-14-Years-of-Chemtrails-Comments-and-Suggestions

Unfortunately, the leadership of your movement, including the Coalition Against Geoengineering, has been hesitant to promote this common-sense and practical plan of action.
In fact, though they have known about my plan for over a year, and I include Michael J. Murphy, G. Edward Griffin and the Shasta Group as "they", these people have thus far not even mentioned this plan publicly.

How can this be explained? I believe that 'they' are not interested in finding real-world solutions to the conundrum they have presented to you. 'They' seem to instead prefer to lengthen the time of the current state of affairs, to avoid real positive actions, to continue making and selling their videos and exhorting folks to make contributions and demands which go unanswered. So long as your leaders maintain themselves as a "power structure" and by hiding this plan for action, they forestall their followers from significant knowledge which they will need to solve the mystery. There is no other explanation.

I hope that you and others like you can rise up and overthrow 'them', because until you do you willingly remain as pawns on their chessboard, sheep to be sheared, and tools for their enrichment.

Good luck.
 
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Q

QuestForTruth

Guest
You guys are funny. You are all preaching to your own little choir. Have you bothered to monitor the sky? Seriously, if you did, you would sometimes notice a number of jets flying at the same time, sometimes in parallel or close enough to appear to be flying in parallel. We have filmed up to 12 jets over a 15 minute period all with very long "contrails" that dissipate into strange cloud formations and ultimately end up forming a soup in the sky by dusk or the next day. We have witnessed and/or filmed several more passes of these same jets that produce 30-50 trails over the general vicinity. In our area, we don't have that kind of jet traffic. You are hellbent on asserting that what is happening is merely normal jet traffic and contrails. This is not normal jet traffic. Too many people are seeing the same thing we are and you can't deny that. If it is/was then why are we letting our skies fill up with this crap. It changes the weather. If it is not chemicals being used to dose us all or control the weather (to create the illusion of climate change?), or protect mother Earth from the sun as some have suggested, then I guess we should seriously consider alternate fuel or discharge systems. Or, we should limit jet traffic to very specific corridors. I think that you are very naive and gullible. You don't want to believe that anybody is perpetrating some evil upon us but look at history. What we are seeing now on a regular basis we did not see when we were growing up nor in the decades that followed. And how do you explain the many jets flying at the same time and the same altitude; some producing long thick trails that dissipate into odd cloud formations and linger in the sky versus those that exhibit almost no trail at all??? I have no interest in registering because you will not agree with the possibility that you might be wrong about this but I have a feeling that you will find that out soon enough. Look at what is happening in the US and look at history!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You guys are funny. You are all preaching to your own little choir. Have you bothered to monitor the sky? Seriously, if you did, you would sometimes notice a number of jets flying at the same time, sometimes in parallel or close enough to appear to be flying in parallel. We have filmed up to 12 jets over a 15 minute period all with very long "contrails" that dissipate into strange cloud formations and ultimately end up forming a soup in the sky by dusk or the next day. We have witnessed and/or filmed several more passes of these same jets that produce 30-50 trails over the general vicinity. In our area, we don't have that kind of jet traffic. You are hellbent on asserting that what is happening is merely normal jet traffic and contrails. This is not normal jet traffic.

How do you know it's not normal jet traffic? Have you checked with FlightRadar24.com ? I think you will be surprised just how much traffic there is over your area. If you let me know where that is, I can make a diagram showing the traffic.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
This is not normal jet traffic.

...to Mick's point- What IS "normal" jet traffic?

There are over 40,000 flights everyday in the US...isn't it logical that some might be visible in the sky at the same time?


What we are seeing now on a regular basis we did not see when we were growing up nor in the decades that followed. And how do you explain the many jets flying at the same time and the same altitude; some producing long thick trails that dissipate into odd cloud formations and linger in the sky versus those that exhibit almost no trail at all???

There were not as many planes in the sky when we were growing up but it DID happen- see some examples:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/487-Pre-1995-Persistent-Contrail-Archive

Why are there clouds in one spot of the sky but not another? Contrails form and persist or not based on atmospheric conditions- which can and often do change in an instant- see here for more detail:

http://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/
 
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GregMc

Senior Member.
Alcoa sees a global demand for aluminum to increase in 2013 :)

Great, so that suggests that their demand is from multiple industries all over the world that want to produce manufactured products made from aluminium, and not from a single secret undisclosed Hidden-govt program.

If there WAS a secret aluminium dispersal program in the manner suggested by conspiracy theorists then they would announce that existing global demand for aluminium may not be able to be satisfied because material production was being consumed in vast quantities by an undisclosed hidden agency.

But they announce nothing of the sort, and clouds of aluminium are not being detected in the sky, nor is there any evidence being found on the ground either.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Great, so that suggests that their demand is from multiple industries all over the world that want to produce manufactured products made from aluminium, and not from a single secret undisclosed Hidden-govt program.

If there WAS a secret aluminium dispersal program in the manner suggested by conspiracy theorists then they would announce that existing global demand for aluminium may not be able to be satisfied because material production was being consumed in vast quantities by an undisclosed hidden agency.

But they announce nothing of the sort, and clouds of aluminium are not being detected in the sky, nor is there any evidence being found on the ground either.
Even I dont beleive Aluminum is being used . I heard that on the radio today that was the so called reason why stocks were up . Since I am however part of the conspiracy crowd I know they will pick up on the news and use it .
 
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