Debunked: Ottawa Shooting Hoax/Shadow's Prove Wrong Times

CaptainBeefheart

New Member
I'm also interested in debunking this if anyone wants to help with that:

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CaptainBeefheart

New Member
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Particularly the claim that the cops were set up and ready for the shoot-out based on this photo ... apparently the Ottawa Police and RCMP should not be seen together like this... and that the shadows prove this was taken at 9:30am

I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.

According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:

So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
Can you draw in an estimated position of the shadows at 9:30?

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Can you draw in an estimated position of the shadows at 9:30?
Yes, the estimated shadow positions at 9:30 EDT are shown below with yellow lines (bearings 128°):

The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the fence pylons, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).

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cloudspotter

Senior Member.
Guess that one is debunked then

NoParty

Senior Member.
I have drawn shadows of the three nearest lampposts on Google Earth. They give the Sun azimuth bearings of 136±1° at the time of the photo.

According to the Sun position calculation for Ottawa on 22 October, this corresponds to the time interval between 10:00 and 10:15 EDT:

So it looks like the picture has been taken after the shooting started.
So you're admitting that the sun was in on it, too? Nice work, Trailspotter...

BombDr

Senior Member.
But, wouldn't an actual false-flag look more professional? Wouldn't "they" make the CPR look legit rather than full of mistakes that could be "debunked" on Youtube?

Logic does not apply to a lot of Conspiracy Theorists though, unless it is warped logic:

Someone doing CPR incorrectly - possible causes:

1. Someone not trained in CPR
2. Someone acting under extreme stress
2. CRISIS ACTORS AS PART OF FALSE FLAG TO (Insert conspiracy of choice)

Staff member

CaptainBeefheart

New Member
Oops, sorry. But thanks for debunking that photo! Much appreciated

deirdre

Senior Member.
The actual positions (shown with purple lines) have been derived with the help of distinct ground features used for reference: the zebra crossing, the brick fence posts, the road markings ('turn left' arrow sign, dark spots, etc).
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://archive.today/UvFWe

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
heres the posting link (from above claim) that shows someone getting a 8:18 time... but using a different sunshadow tool. maybe you can try that one too and see if maybe some of these programs are flawed..would be useful info.

he used suncalc.net

note: I find NO online source for this photo other than CT type blogs and this fb thread below, she seems to be saying her source (she originally uploaded this at 10:50ish on oct 22nd) is only 'claiming' he took the photo at 9:30. no proof was given as far as I can tell from the photo taker...that I can find anyway

so its kinda a "suncalculation program war" (ie which program is right)

https://archive.today/UvFWe

There is nothing wrong with the SunCalc tool this guy (Pat Jack) used, except it displays times in the user's local time by default.
This is how its results look for me:

On the date of 22nd October my local time (BST) was 5 hours ahead of the Ottawa's time (EDT). So my SunCalc result of 15:04 BST is the same 10:04 EDT as in my analysis above. The guy's local time (CDT) was one hour behind the Ottawa's time. Also, he used a wrong date, October 24, that might affect the minute values of his estimate. And I have no idea about how he figured out the shadow directions, as it is not possible to zoom in the satellite image of this area on Google Maps, it switches to a tilted aerial image:

If he had used this, the tilt would introduce a significant error.

PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image:
The image in the video you present we discuss appears to have been made at 8:18am, Ottowa time. I haven't spent a lot of time with the SunCalc, and perhaps some daylight savings time was in effect, perhaps it is 9:18am, Ottowa time. Yes, checking Sandy Hook research data, SunCalc is ahead 1 hour, so the image you show was taken at 9:18am EST Ottowa time.
Content from External Source

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Redwood

Active Member
The person who put up the "shadow" YouTube has admitted he was wrong and taken down the video. () Like zombies, the claim is unkillable and still circulates on hard core crazy conspiracist YouTube sites like "Free Radio Revolution" which has at least 40 (!) videos up proclaiming it's a hoax, and I'm sure there'll be more.

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
PS From the guy's comment on FB, it looks like he got it wrong by about two hours; one hour probably came from a different time zone, the other could have come from the tilt of the aerial image

There is another FB comment by Pat Jack, where he explained his method:

The image attached here, (the white line in the image especially), simulates the shadow cast by the lamp post -- the base of which is on the southeast side of Wellington Street -- the shadow of that lamp post is falling across the street, towards the northwest. The two red lines indicate the points on Wellington Street where the shadow crosses Wellington Street and those points are accurate to less than one foot, less than 12 inches, which is less than 1 degree on the compass, which is accurate to within 4 minutes when using shadow direction for time of day stamp.

Those points on Wellington Street are defined the endpoint of one white street marker line and its adjacent street marker line, the starting point of the adjacent, white, street marker line.

When we go here:

http://suncalc.net/#/45.4231,-75.6994,20/2014.10.21/08:18

and then drag the circle so that the ORANGE line lays over these points, (the base of the lamp post, and then the two points on Wellington Street), (click and hold the center black spot in the center tear drop to drag the circle/orange line into place) ... we can see the time of day indicated is 8:18am, Ottowa time ... BUT ... that's an hour off, because the applet is not set for daylight savings time, the time is 9:18am, Ottowa time on the day of the event.
Content from External Source
He started with Google Earth, as I did. He used the shadow from the same lamp post (one of the three I used) and got for it the same heading of 136°, as measured by GE ruler tool. This raises the question: why is his calculated time so different from my result? It can't be due to different calculation methods: people have been doing astronomical calculations for centuries and they known to be very accurate.

If Pat Jack had plotted this heading directly on SunCalc, as I did in my previous post by orienting the ORANGE line at 136° to the vertical (that is, to the North on the map), he would get the same time reading about 10:04 EDT, but displayed for him as 9:04 CDT. He knows that he is an hour off, but this is not "because the applet is not set for daylight savings time", it is because it shows the user's local time for a given date. However, his calculated time is about 45 minutes earlier. Why is it? Having followed his instructions, I've reproduced his result as best as I could to get the "estimated time" of 14:18 BST (9:18 EDT):

Apparently, he switched to Satellite option to see the lamp post and road markings but ignored the fact that the ground became tilted when he zoomed in. The tilt subtracted about 11° from the actual shadow direction, or 45 minutes from the actual time. Just compare the angles between the white line and vertical edge of his Google Earth screenshot and between the orange line and vertical edge of my reproduction of his SunCalc application. The app is made for the map and "does not know" that ground was tilted.

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