Debunked: New Zealand flag change is not a silent coup

MikeC

Closed Account
New Zealand is looking at changing its flag, and apparently it might all be an attempt to railroad the country in to the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement trade pact!!

I hasten to add that as with most conspiracies about the NWO, etc., this one has no traction outside the conspiracy-vulnerable population, but it has a particular interest to me because the author was a social acquaintance of mine at university - so I feel a small amount of guilt at his subsequent descent into believing every conspiracy around!!

The current flag is:
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The process is a referendum later this year to choose 1 possible alternative from these 4 (shortlisted from 40 selected from about 10,000 submissions...):

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Followed next year by a "head to head" - the most popular of the 4 vs the existing flag.

As you might expect there's a fair bit of argument going on with all sorts of people slinging arguments against the proposal - ranging from the proposed designs are rubbish, people "died under the current one and it would be an insult to change it", we should become a republic first, we should change the anthem first, the process is flawed, and many more.

One objection that has completely failed to gain any traction is that by changing the flag New Zealand is actually giving up its sovereignty - or, as the author likes to call it, "Due Authority" -

To be perfectly honest I cannot actually follow any of the reasoning here - the term "due authority" appears nowhere I can find in any New Zealand constitutional arrangement, and just why changing het flag affects anything is not actually explained.

Due authority is certainly a real term - but it has only a heraldic significance, in that you only get the right to bear a coat of arms if you have ancestral right (ie you inherit it), or it is granted by someone with "due authority" to make that grant which means the government - ie in NZ parlance "the Crown".

At the start of the article the author gives a link to the NZ government website link on NZ Constitutional arrangements - many of which are not documented. One of the historical links is the union jack on the current flag - however this is noted as "more symbolic" and "could be reformed without changing New Zealand's constitution in any fundamental way" - although also noting that change to it "may evoke strong feelings in the community" - which is certainly happening.

The author notes this last point in his article - apparently debunking himself without realizing it!!
 
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Auldy

Senior Member
I remember an acquaintance using a similar sovereignty based argument whenever the notion of Australia changing its flag too. Of course, its just the same circular-argument without any facts or real point.

Anyway, I'm all for NZ changing the flag (will stop me confusing it with the Aussie one from a distance), and my preference is the silver fern on black and blue with the southern cross.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member
I like the blue and red fern as a nod to tradition
Ditto, although I could just as easily find the top left flag equally appealing. Regardless, I think it's a good move for NZ as it helps establish their identity. +1 for our neighbours across the trench!
 

NoParty

Senior Member
Hell, give me this one

Leaves o green.jpg

in a nice sage or green, and I'LL move there!





(p.s. Was the one in the lower left nominated by Franz Mesmer? Hypnotize the Kiwis into paying higher taxes?)
 
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jonnyH

Senior Member
No pyramids, no all seeing eye, no owls or goats, no cryptic references to Rihanna. It's pretty clear that the illuminati/NWO are out of the loop on this one.
 

derwoodii

Senior Member
while i can still get your's and my oz one confused as very similar.. I dont find any deep feelings for the given 4 potentials hmm ummm hmm the black n white fern be best ATM
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member
No pyramids, no all seeing eye, no owls or goats, no cryptic references to Rihanna. It's pretty clear that the illuminati/NWO are out of the loop on this one.
Just a hint of superiority over their antipodean neighbours. In the Aussie flag, the Commonwealth Star's position relative the Southern Cross approximately corresponds to Beta Centauri, whereas in two of the shortlisted designs of a new NZ flag, the base of fern leaf corresponds to Alpha Centauri :cool:
6330629_f520.jpg
640px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png
_85293012_silver-fern-red-white-and-blue-flat.jpg
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
To be perfectly honest I cannot actually follow any of the reasoning here - the term "due authority" appears nowhere I can find in any New Zealand constitutional arrangement, and just why changing het flag affects anything is not actually explained.
It's already got you speaking Dutch! :)


Anyway, I like the black and blue fern. It's a very nice design. Not sure about the black-and-white rollmop though...
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
Three of the four remaining designs are variations on the fern design. It's quite possible the swirl will get a plurality since the fern vote will get split. Is there a runoff if there is no majority winner? Because it's quite likely that one of the fern designs could win head to head against the swirl but not overall.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
What is the swirl meant to be? A rollmop? A Swiss roll? The more I stare at it the more it looks like the back end of a lion in silhouette, which probably wasn't the intended effect!
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member
What is the swirl meant to be? A rollmop? A Swiss roll? The more I stare at it the more it looks like the back end of a lion in silhouette, which probably wasn't the intended effect!
According to a BBC News article, it shows the curving koru Maori symbol.
_85292730_koru-black-flat.jpg
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
According to a BBC News article, it shows the curving koru Maori symbol.
View attachment 14830
So still a fern, but a new shoot. I think it's the shape of the waving flag in the images up top that gives the unfortunate anatomical effect :)
 

Marin B

Active Member
I suspect that flag design aficionado, Roman Mars (of the 99% Invisible podcast), would vote for the black & white flag based on the priciples he sets forth in this Ted Talk.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
Canada went through this back in the '60s, when the red ensign flag was replaced by the maple leaf. My understanding is it was bitterly opposed at the time, but today of course it's a universally recognised symbol of Canada's independence from the UK. A few provinces still fly the red ensign, and the Union flag still has official status, but I don't think there's anyone today who would favour removing the maple leaf. I expect the same will eventually happen in Oz and NZ.

As far as my preference, I think the black-and-white koru flag is awesome.
 

tadaaa

Senior Member
Who gets to vote?, it says in the article "voters will be asked"

I ask as someone with dual kiwi/uk citizenship
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Anyone registered to vote in New Zealand gets to vote.

The "swirl" is a koru - an unfolding fern - it is also on the tail on Air NZ aircraft in a different form -

b0b2584f9f098045c0d920499f4edbf3.jpg

Yeah my sister is "pushing" the Koru on the basis if it gets a plurality it is so crap we'll stay with the current one.
 
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