Debunked: NASA cloud chart is faked

Leifer

Senior Member.
The claim:
NASA cloud chart is faked, and/or contains "new" cloud names and classifications....in order to cover-up global geoengineering.
http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/cloud_chart/

Also claimed, is this "NASA disinfo" is being used to somehow brainwash or assimilate children to believe the images on the NASA site "as real" clouds. It is propaganda from NASA, showing "non-real clouds".
The people who claim this, say that these types of clouds have "never existed" before.

The claims found on the net:

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/video-new-nasa-disinformation-cloud-chart-for-schoolchildren/

http://globalskywatch.com/chemtrails/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=831#Post831





....and several other places.

Does the claim hold-up to historical evidence ?

No.
The claim is very intrenched in the idea that "normal clouds are puffy and billowy".....and that most all others are induced by "chemtrails".
Any short research at a library, Google Books, old books, meteorology textbooks, and other resources ....plainly serve as precursors for what is found in/on the NASA cloud pages. In fact, the NASA cloud images are mostly descriptive only....using the higher(est) classifications along with some descriptive words....
Summertime Altocumulus
Edge of Altocumulus Field
Altocumulus during Virginia Summer
Altocumulus during Texas spring
....and so-on...


The chart is not as nearly specific as it could be in it's naming/titles. But after all, the chart is meant for general classification, not specific Nephology.


Is the claim a worthwhile debunk ?

Yes and no.
This claim is so very easily proven wrong (and accepted as wrong among most people), that a "debunk" hardly seems necessary. Although I (personally) am seeing it increasingly suggested more and more amongst the chemtrail/geoengineering crowd. In this crowd....it is widely accepted as truth that NASA is lying.

Analogies, in response to the claim:

The believers of this claim often suggest that there are only 6-8 types of "real" clouds....
Cirro
Stratto
Cummulo
Alto
Nimbo
(plus whatever else any grade-school "general science" textbook has the room or interest to include in it's section on atmosphere)
I tried to get the recommended "Earth Science" textbook (high-school version) used in my state (CA) on-line (ebook) but no luck. It seems to be: http://books.google.com/books?id=NA...&sa=X&ei=5lupUvr2CdXeoATL7IE4&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

I wonder how deep it goes into "cloud types" ? I am guessing it's just a basic overview...like this (if even this much.....all top level classifications):


So suspicious people claim something like,
"There are only 7 or-so types of clouds. I can remember that being taught in school. Now suddenly we have NASA telling us there are many more....that's bullshit !"

.....A good analogy (in America) and a reply to their memory and knowledge is asking them, "But you also learned about the indigenous peoples of the Americas - in school, correct ? (the Indians). Can you name all the tribes of the Indians ? ....or are only the most common names familiar to you ?
 
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CbIncus

Member
There's a very good Soviet cloud atlas. It has a lot of photos, and so-called "chemclouds" are there too. The presented classification is very detailed and includes most modern cloud types.

Dubuk A.F. The International Cloud Atlas. 1940.

 

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Leifer

Senior Member.
I just bought this one from 1939 in all Hebrew. Not sure how that will go over in conspiracy circles. But maybe my German one (in the video) is the nuller.

Hebrew_book.JPG
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Those folks think NASA is somehow the only purveyor of scientific information on the planet, which is absurd in and of itself, but the keeper of official cloud taxonomy is the World Meteorological Organization, documented in the International Cloud Atlas. NASA's cloud info ultimately comes from the WMO. It's the WMO that will decide whether or not the supplementary feature Asperatus, proposed by Gavin Pretor-Piney of the Cloud Appreciation Society, will be added to the nomenclature. Clouds are classified by Genus (the main cloud types taught in elementary school), and further divided by Species, Variety, Supplementary features and accessory clouds so you wind up with dozens of specific cloud names. The initial foundation of the system was established over 200 years ago.

http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v1.pdf

http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v2.pdf

http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/asperatus-update/
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Here is a fellow that also posts old cloud books, but he can't understand why/how a propeller engine can indeed leave a contrail....
He feels that because "contrails" are not found in early books (pre 1950's)....that they are a new cloud invention.
This is partially true, but only because contrails were not common at that time....therefore there was no need to include them as a classification.
As contrails increased (high altitude plane flight), a classification became necessary, and became basically, unavoidable.

 
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Leifer

Senior Member.
Gold star if you watch this whole video.....
"The Cloud Factory"

Mr. Wiggley......mad, mad geoengineering scientist.
;)
 
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solrey

Senior Member.
Gold star if you watch this whole video.....
"The Cloud Factory"

Mr. Wiggley......mad, mad geoengineering scientist.
;)

Yay, Ima getta gold star.

I always wondered where the youtuber "weatherwar101" learned meteorology... now I know.

 

Everett

New Member
For those of us who don't want to watch the video...

What cloud types are they claiming aren't normal? There aren't any that weren't in my earth science class in the NASA guide. It just looks like the usual list of cloud types to me.
 

UnusualSuspect

New Member
There's a very good Soviet cloud atlas. It has a lot of photos, and so-called "chemclouds" are there too. The presented classification is very detailed and includes most modern cloud types.

Dubuk A.F. The International Cloud Atlas. 1940.

Pics dated 1900 and 1916 are IN COLOR. Who knew Russian photography was so far advanced in the early 20th century?
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Pics dated 1900 and 1916 are IN COLOR. Who knew Russian photography was so far advanced in the early 20th century?

People who have studied photography?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_photography_technology

http://blogs.denverpost.com/capture...tography-from-russian-in-the-early-1900s/544/

Even though color photograph technology was in its infancy, they absolutely did have color photographs in Russia in the early 20th century.


Corner tower of the Trinity Cathedral in the Solovetskii Monastery, Solovetski Islands; 1915 Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii Collection (Library of Congress).


View of the monastery from Svetlitsa Island, Saint Nil Stolbenskii Monastery, Lake Seliger; 1910 Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii Collection (Library of Congress).
 
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Everett

New Member
Pics dated 1900 and 1916 are IN COLOR. Who knew Russian photography was so far advanced in the early 20th century?

I don't have a source, atm, to back this up but...seems that in the early 20th century it was sometimes commonplace to tint B/W photos, after the fact.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you're right, judging by those pictures, although I don't have anything to back it up other then comparing it other picture's I've seen. They look like they are colorized, or black and white photographs hand tinted in the correct colors. Nothing wrong with that either, particularly before the widespread availability of color film (American in the early 1940's - there is actually not only WW2 color photographs, but even color film.) Somebody ran a TV special of (take the exact name with a grain of salt, it's been a while) of "The Great War (i.e. WW1) in Color," featuring colorized authentic (black and white) WW1 film. It's a great example of colorized film.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
there is actually not only WW2 color photographs

I don't believe this is an accurate claim. Can we 'debunk' it?

http://www.ww2incolor.com/history-of-color-photography.html

And:
There is more....thanks to the wonders of the "InterWebz"!
 

Everett

New Member
I don't believe this is an accurate claim. Can we 'debunk' it?

Um, I 'did' say that there are color photographs and film of WW2. I've seen it myself, even have a book of it. I think there's been some kind of misunderstanding, and that we actually agree.

To be more clear, there are color pictures and film from WW2. I think we all agree on that.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Um, I 'did' say that there are color photographs and film of WW2. I've seen it myself, even have a book of it. I think there's been some kind of misunderstanding, and that we actually agree.

To be more clear, there are color pictures and film from WW2. I think we all agree on that.

OH! I re-read your sentence, the one I quoted....embarrassingly, was my mistake in the interpretation of your intent! I can only say this in my defense...at that time, I was at the optometrist's office, waiting for an eye exam appointment! Really, this is a true fact (they have complimentary wireless Internet access).
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
http://notesonphotographs.org/index...ction_to_Early_Color_Photography,_August_2008

Three colored plates/negatives...

800px-Alleia_Hamerops_composite.jpg
(from above wiki link)
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Mammatus clouds (Mamma) are still being viewed as suspicious....possibly because they are rather uncommon and quite spectacular.

It is nearly impossible to respond to all the social media posts that claim this unusual cloud formation is a part of some kind of secret geoengineering, or a "new/recent cloud classification".

Here is one Facebook post that I felt the need to reply, because there were several such claims on the same users page, about Mammatus being "a new and recently invented cloud type".


mammatus2.jpg

mammatus.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/theynukeoursky/posts/10202609360027119?stream_ref=10

My book scans:



img043.jpg
 

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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Mammatus clouds (Mamma) are still being viewed as suspicious....possibly because they are rather uncommon and quite spectacular.

Yes, this has been cited for, as far as I can recall, several years now (by the "chem"trail enthusiasts).

I think it is a phenomenon that, prior to the advent and ubiquity of personal cellphone cameras, was just something that no-one ever bothered to take a picture of, previously. AND then to (hysterically) post to social-media sites.

("Hysterically" in the sense of the original meaning...not the implication of "hysterical" as in "humorous").

Hysterical definition:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria

 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
I've been to a museum in Kotka, Finland, that features some colour photography from Russia that predates WWI - the subjects are the Imperial family of Alexander who used to vacation regularly in the area, in fact there was an Imperial Lodge on the river a little north of the town. Today the lodge is a museum and one of the biggest tourist attractions for the region. Anyhoo, one of the pioneers of colour photography was a Russian by the name of Produkin-Gorsky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Prokudin-Gorsky
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
Luke Howard (1772 -1864) is noted as the first person to submit officially recognized names for clouds.
http://www.rmets.org/weather-and-climate/observing/luke-howard-and-cloud-names

Among the many youtube videos claiming that what we see now are "new clouds" (or newly named clouds).....these videos are perhaps going about their research and claims in a backwards way.
If someone wants to claim that there are suddenly new names and new classifications....by only posting recent books with names they have never heard of, they would do better to look back further in history, and show that these names have never existed. But unfortunately these videos (and blog posts) don't do that.

Here is a very basic (but rather complete) account of the history of cloud naming, along with the science to explain it......


Luke Howard spurred others to an even more keen interest in cloud classification, later refined to include many sub-classifications.
It's similar to the classifications of plants, etc.......divided into systematics, taxonomic rank, etc.... (though clouds are not given such taxonomic names, because they are not living organisms)
200px-Biological_classification_L_Pengo_vflip.svg.png
.....but where clouds have top classifications, they also have several levels/types beneath them......hence the expansion of Howard's initial list.....in the form of new names - but not changed for many decades.

CloudIDchart.GIF
 
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Leifer

Senior Member.
Educational cloud film, 1966....."Know Your Clouds"
(with the most modern graphics available...ha)
Remember, this is an introductory film, so only the top 10 "basic" ones are discussed......there are others.
(contrails are shown, but not discussed.....because in 1966, they were not so common)

 
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