Debunked: DHS orders 450 million .40 caliber bullets for use in America

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J

Joe

Guest
there is a difference between a debt and a budget surplus.

You can have both at once.

Debtclock seems to be an anonymously owned & run site with no reference to where it gets its figures from - you can mouse-over the numbers and it gives a little definition - but not the source of the actual data. Until you can establish the bona fides of its info I don't think it can be considered reliable.
It has always seemed pretty acurate and seen it used many times . here is the Us version , Can you say COLLAPSE ? http://www.usdebtclock.org/
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I like ferfal, he survived the collapse of the Argentine dollar, so that kinda goes against the whole idea that the American dollar will always be around. And I dont plan to be poor, I dont keep my wealth in paper dollars that decline in value everyday, I keep it in the only True Money, I wonder if you know what that is.

The perfect example is the Roman Empire. The debasement of the Denarius, which was illegal at its time, just how the 1965 coinage act was constitutionally illegal here in the U.S, occured less than one hundred years before the total collapse of the Empire. The Empire was seized by war, was not changed from its current paradigm at the time, it fell, and it fell solely because of economics.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
The perfect example is the Roman Empire. The debasement of the Denarius, which was illegal at its time, just how the 1965 coinage act was constitutionally illegal here in the U.S, occured less than one hundred years before the total collapse of the Empire. The Empire was seized by war, was not changed from its current paradigm at the time, it fell, and it fell solely because of economics.


Er, please explain how the downfall of the roman empire is relevant in the slightest to the US's economic problems today? How does it pertain to the (false) supposition that the DHS and other government agencies are buying up absurd quantities of bullets?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I dont keep my wealth in paper dollars that decline in value everyday, I keep it in the only True Money, I wonder if you know what that is.

I love it! People stockpiling guns and ammo, and money that no one knows what it is. So when the SHTF, they can go around shooting everyone and trading some kind of money that no one has heard of. That makes a lot of sense.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
ROFL - sthe word of the emperor WAS the law, so if he wanted to debase the coinage then the debasement was perfectly "legal".

moreover debasement of roman coinage had been occuring for centuries prior to any sensible date for "teh fall" of the Empire - heck it was happening even BEFORE there was an Empire

and of course there is nothing at all unconstitutional about the 1965 coinage act - there is no constitutional requirement for the Feds to issue gold or silver currency - silly CT's think that Section 10 Clause 1 does so - but it only applies to States, not to the Federal Govt - as even the most cursory reading shows:

the currency provision here means states cannot create a "tender" to pay debt.

Article 1, Section 8, para 5 of constitution grants congress the power to:

cklearly "regulate the value thereof" allows Congress to include or exclude metals or otherwise "fiddle" with the value of the money in any way they collectively see fit.

It amazes me that people still make such a simple error and get all hot and bothered about it!
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Most likely he is buying up gold and silver, may be some gemstones. If the SHTF bad, the problem will be a LACK of items to buy. For that, the best currency is education. Know how to raise a garden, repair your car and such.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I punt for food or ammunition or tools. "Precious metals" are only useful when there is a luxury market that demands them - in any societal collapse I'd be avoiding gold & silver - you can't be sure anyone will actually sell you anything in exchange for them.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I make art jewelry, and while it is not expensive, it could be the type of item that some might like to trade for. I can sew and make clothing, that could be useful.

Personally I don't feel that we are anywhere near a major collapse. Our economy is growing, slowly, but growing. There are folks hurting, some them had fallen prey to the stories told by real estate brokers and such, some ran into health problems and such. The folks I know have had to give up a lot of luxuries. In fact my hubby and I are among those. In spite of that, we still are better off than my family was when I growing up. We can afford to go to KFC or Micky Ds, There were few 'fast food' places when I grew up, very few folks could afford a bought meal, even if it was a .19 Griff's burger
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I make art jewelry, and while it is not expensive, it could be the type of item that some might like to trade for. I can sew and make clothing, that could be useful.

Personally I don't feel that we are anywhere near a major collapse. Our economy is growing, slowly, but growing. There are folks hurting, some them had fallen prey to the stories told by real estate brokers and such, some ran into health problems and such. The folks I know have had to give up a lot of luxuries. In fact my hubby and I are among those. In spite of that, we still are better off than my family was when I growing up. We can afford to go to KFC or Micky Ds, There were few 'fast food' places when I grew up, very few folks could afford a bought meal, even if it was a .19 Griff's burger


What stories are real estate brokers telling? (Full disclosure: real estate broker here)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I punt for food or ammunition or tools. "Precious metals" are only useful when there is a luxury market that demands them - in any societal collapse I'd be avoiding gold & silver - you can't be sure anyone will actually sell you anything in exchange for them.

And how do you pay? Pull out your gold bar and shave off a few grains for a dozen eggs?

There are a lot of people longing for dystopia. Some of them are the same ones longing for Jesus. Whatever, they used to stand on corners with sandwich boards, now they are able to connect with other like minded individuals on the internet and be validated.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Sorry about the comment. Before the housing market went bust, I heard a lot loan providers and some agents, encouraging folks to buy BIGGER, even if payments later on would be too large. They were told that they could sell it for more. My hubby and some of my friends discussed that and felt that it was a foolish gamble.

Gold coins would be easier than gold bars, but if I wanted to rely on gold, I would have a lot of simple gold jewelry for trade.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
And how do you pay? Pull out your gold bar and shave off a few grains for a dozen eggs?

I'd be the one with the eggs (or tools or ammo - things that are actually directly useful for survival) and I probably would not be interested in exchanging them for gold or silver ..... unless I was reasonably sure that society was well enough organised for those metals to have real value to someone.......or if I was sure there was some idiot down the road who would give me more food, ammo or tools for it! :)
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Eggs, seeds and such, skills such as repairing things, herbal knowledge will be the most valuable items. As soon as folks get out of pure survival, there will be an interest in personal adornment.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Sorry about the comment. Before the housing market went bust, I heard a lot loan providers and some agents, encouraging folks to buy BIGGER, even if payments later on would be too large. They were told that they could sell it for more. My hubby and some of my friends discussed that and felt that it was a foolish gamble.

Gold coins would be easier than gold bars, but if I wanted to rely on gold, I would have a lot of simple gold jewelry for trade.

While I am sure there were people who thought housing would ALWAYS go up and were vocal about it, I was pretty pessimistic myself. When asked I would always say I don't know. Even today when prices seem to be at a bottom, when asked if I think values will go up, I will only comment on what I see, that buyers seem to think we are at a bottom, I don't know myself. Frankly, I only wish I had to power to make someone buy something, LOL. They make the decision themselves. I will say though, at the height, I had situations where a couple were bidding against themselves He: "We'll put in an offer for x" She "but if we have to we'll to higher" He "sure we'd pay X more!" Personally, I blame the mortgage brokers for teaser rates and such. Even today I'll have a buyer tell me they're putting down 10% only to have the broker talk them into borrowing more and putting down less.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I think you are correct on it being the brokers more than the agents. I also think that cities need to be blamed for some of it. I saw suburbs refusing to let any smaller homes be built.

I live in what is basically a 'Levittown' development, from right after WW II. It was centered on a large non mall shopping center, with apartments walking distance to it, then there is an area of starter homes, 2 bedroom frame ones and 3 BR brick facade ones (the frame ones are built a lot better). Then there is an area of smallish 3 and 4 BR brick homes, and an area of upscale homes. Today there are none of the smaller homes available in a new home.
 
J

Joe

Guest
revealed: Holder says president could authorize military drone strikes inside u.s.
holder-549x620.png
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
http://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-...mored-vehicles[/URL]

I followed the single source provided through some jumps to a survivalist blog, which cites defense news article and a press release from Navistar(the manufacturer) that talk about Navistar upgrading their MRAPs in march of last year as evidence.

The author highlights this particular line from the Navistar press release: “The vehicle reset line we established for this installation work can also be utilized to restore older vehicles to like-new condition. Therefore, we are poised and ready to reset vehicles returning from deployment…” and makes the claim that the "vehicle reset line" means MRAPS being returned from overseas to be used in the US. This is outright false, in military terminology a "reset" is when they bring equipment(including vehicles) back from operation and completely refurbish them.

They then go on to show several pictures of DHS MRAPs, a few of which are the same MRAP and a few from parades/exhibitions. Seems real secret rolls eyes

Combined with the continued repetition of false claims of stockpiling billions of bullets and the fact these things are (AFAIK) never seen on the streets, I think it's safe to say the claims being made are entirely untrue.

Honestly, the DHS better get their act in gear if they're planning on martial law! The very people they'd be worried about seem to keep close tabs on their equipment purchases.


revealed: Holder says president could authorize military drone strikes inside u.s.


It's like you didn't even read the letter....
 
J

Joe

Guest
I followed the single source provided through some jumps to a survivalist blog, which cites defense news article and a press release from Navistar(the manufacturer) that talk about Navistar upgrading their MRAPs in march of last year as evidence.

The author highlights this particular line from the Navistar press release: “The vehicle reset line we established for this installation work can also be utilized to restore older vehicles to like-new condition. Therefore, we are poised and ready to reset vehicles returning from deployment…” and makes the claim that the "vehicle reset line" means MRAPS being returned from overseas to be used in the US. This is outright false, in military terminology a "reset" is when they bring equipment(including vehicles) back from operation and completely refurbish them.

They then go on to show several pictures of DHS MRAPs, a few of which are the same MRAP and a few from parades/exhibitions. Seems real secret rolls eyes

Combined with the continued repetition of false claims of stockpiling billions of bullets and the fact these things are (AFAIK) never seen on the streets, I think it's safe to say the claims being made are entirely untrue.

Honestly, the DHS better get their act in gear if they're planning on martial law! The very people they'd be worried about seem to keep close tabs on their equipment purchases.





It's like you didn't even read the letter....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...pen-possibility-of-drone-strikes-on-u-s-soil/
 
J

Joe

Guest
[h=2]Fake Story About DHS “Tanks” Still Spreading Through Right Wing Talk Radio[/h]The world’s largest closed loop echo chamber
Charles Johnson
Wingnuts7 hours, 9 minutes ago • Views: 5,304
I know it’s not a big surprise, but so far I have not found a single right wing blogger who has corrected the utterly false story about DHS “tanks” launched by Dim Jim Hoft and Drudge Report, even though we proved yesterday that it’s a complete fantasy concocted by a survivalist blog.
Jim Hoft’s semi-literate post hyping this paranoid fake story is still at his blog, with no changes, retractions, or corrections, of course: Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Stockpile | the Gateway Pundit.
And as you can see in this Twitter search, there are still thousands of right wing parrots eagerly promoting the phony story, too, after hate-ranter Michael Savage gave it another big push on his radio show.
It’s yet another gigantic fake outrage promoted by evil, dishonest people, that will now become a matter of blind faith among the right wing base, impervious to facts or reason.
ALSO SEE:
Fox’s Dobbs Pushes Conspiracy That Government Is ‘Arming Up’
 
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jvnk08

Senior Member.

Once again, it's like you didn't even read the actual document....


treasurecoastskywatch said:
Mick said:
Oh really? Where's the order then?

So, no order form? Anything to corroborate the "nearly 3000" number? Any real evidence of the claims made in that article besides a press release from a year ago about completely normal vehicle reset programs(which, for any military equipment has been done for decades)?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Once again, it's like you didn't even read the actual document....




So, no order form? Anything to corroborate the "nearly 3000" number? Any real evidence of the claims made in that article besides a press release from a year ago about completely normal vehicle reset programs(which, for any military equipment has been done for decades)?
No i couldn't find any thing on the order that matched what I heard all day . that's why i posted the last post debunking my own claim for now . So for now the MRAP orders for the DHS seem to be Bogus ? They were however purchased and are used by DHS . Yes I read the document and Holder doesn't rule out a strike by a Drone under extreme circumstances . What will be considered extreme only time will tell ?
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Fake Story About DHS “Tanks” Still Spreading Through Right Wing Talk Radio

The world’s largest closed loop echo chamber
Charles Johnson
Wingnuts7 hours, 9 minutes ago • Views: 5,304

I know it’s not a big surprise, but so far I have not found a single right wing blogger who has corrected the utterly false story about DHS “tanks” launched by Dim Jim Hoft and Drudge Report, even though we proved yesterday that it’s a complete fantasy concocted by a survivalist blog.
Jim Hoft’s semi-literate post hyping this paranoid fake story is still at his blog, with no changes, retractions, or corrections, of course: Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Stockpile | the Gateway Pundit.
And as you can see in this Twitter search, there are still thousands of right wing parrots eagerly promoting the phony story, too, after hate-ranter Michael Savage gave it another big push on his radio show.
It’s yet another gigantic fake outrage promoted by evil, dishonest people, that will now become a matter of blind faith among the right wing base, impervious to facts or reason.
ALSO SEE:
Fox’s Dobbs Pushes Conspiracy That Government Is ‘Arming Up’


That looks to me like pretty solid evidence from people following the story that this is conspiracy bull.

treasurecoastskywatch said:

This is for the DoD, no mention of the DHS. Also it's from more than a year ago. I fail to see the connection between this and the DHS.
 
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jvnk08

Senior Member.
No i couldn't find any thing on the order that matched what I heard all day . that's why i posted the last post debunking my own claim for now . So for now the MRAP orders for the DHS seem to be Bogus ? They were however purchased and are used by DHS . Yes I read the document and Holder doesn't rule out a strike by a Drone under extreme circumstances . What will be considered extreme only time will tell ?

Clearly they have armored vehicles, but personally I don't know if those are MRAPs. They don't have angled bottoms as far as I can tell, for example. I'm saying there is zero evidence they've purchased 2700 MRAPs as is being claimed, but the possibility exists they have some.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Clearly they have armored vehicles, but personally I don't know if those are MRAPs. They don't have angled bottoms as far as I can tell, for example. I'm saying there is zero evidence they've purchased 2700 MRAPs as is being claimed, but the possibility exists they have some.
Yes i will agree I was duped I think but at least Id admit it . Its all I heard all day although the Blaze never picked up the story . :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
This has been popping up on my FB feed lately:

http://offgridsurvival.com/sarahpal...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582


I'm not a conspiracy theorist AT ALL. But to all those who are, the White House is paying attention to all the FB pages filled with people who lap up every word Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and sundry spout, who post openly how much they hate the president and want him GONE. THey're expecting an uprising.
I dont have a Facebook . I wouldnt say I hate the president but dislike him very much along with the rest of those smucks in DC . Not a fan of Alex jones but do find him amusing . I do listen to Beck and Rush on a regular basis . They expect a uprising but there wont be one .There might be civil unrest if the market crashes along with our dollar . Let them fear the people thats good for America . Unless they Go Ruby Ridge or Waco on us Americans are fat and happy and until that goes away there will just be chatter . :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
This has been popping up on my FB feed lately:

http://offgridsurvival.com/sarahpal...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582


I'm not a conspiracy theorist AT ALL. But to all those who are, the White House is paying attention to all the FB pages filled with people who lap up every word Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and sundry spout, who post openly how much they hate the president and want him GONE. THey're expecting an uprising.
Google says FBI watching the Webhttp://www.france24.com/en/20130306-google-says-fbi-watching-web
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
They are watching maybe a couple of thousand out of millions.

I thought every one was upset that there was more done to prevent 9/11, now that they are trying to do something, that same group of folks don't like that.

It really is "Have you stopped beating your wife, yet?" with them
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
This has been popping up on my FB feed lately:

http://offgridsurvival.com/sarahpal...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582


I'm not a conspiracy theorist AT ALL. But to all those who are, the White House is paying attention to all the FB pages filled with people who lap up every word Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and sundry spout, who post openly how much they hate the president and want him GONE. THey're expecting an uprising.


Is that last part a quote from FB....? If you follow the chain of blog posts until you get to actual sources, it's the same misconception as shown by Mick in this thread. A large sum of bullets could potentially be ordered by the DHS over the next 5 years if the need arises. Over such a time period it's really not an alarming amount of ammunition.


Google says FBI watching the Webhttp://www.france24.com/en/20130306-google-says-fbi-watching-web


Yes, of course they are serving NSLs to Google. Google purveys an enormous amount of data, including that of criminals. Do note the number of NSLs issued, however - Google says 1,000 at most. Personally I would be more worried about state/local law enforcement subpoenaing cellular providers, which has seen a marked increase in the last few years:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/us/cell-carriers-see-uptick-in-requests-to-aid-surveillance.html?_r=0
 
J

Joe

Guest
They are watching maybe a couple of thousand out of millions.

I thought every one was upset that there was more done to prevent 9/11, now that they are trying to do something, that same group of folks don't like that.

It really is "Have you stopped beating your wife, yet?" with them
Thousands ? Millions if not everyone on the web in one way or another . Try typing in a few words that you know would get their attention over and over again . No they dont watch anyone the computers do . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Sure they are collecting them all in a facility that is not even built. Computers can't tell the difference between, "I am going to attack Chicago" when Chicago is the name of a village or an enemy player in a computer game and " I am going to attack Chicago' meaning the city.

There will be thousands of the first. On one server, I accidentally attacked the wrong village Chicago. I attacked one that 27 hrs away, instead of the one that was 15 min from me.

If they were monitoring the internet, there would be a prison full of folks that have threatened the President alone. And yet those some folks post day after day.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Thousands ? Millions if not everyone on the web in one way or another . Try typing in a few words that you know would get their attention over and over again . No they dont watch anyone the computers do . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

I detailed in another thread why it's actually a incredibly difficult for them to make sense of that data(if they are indeed collecting it). The claim that they can store Yottabyte(s) of data is unheard of, a Yottabyte is an unbeleivable quantity data. For reference, the world generates a few Zettabytes every year which is roughly 1/1000th of a Yottabyte. All human speech ever spoken is estimated to be roughly 42 zettabytes(source). Pasted from the other thread:

 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Is that last part a quote from FB....? If you follow the chain of blog posts until you get to actual sources, it's the same misconception as shown by Mick in this thread. A large sum of bullets could potentially be ordered by the DHS over the next 5 years if the need arises. Over such a time period it's really not an alarming amount of ammunition.

No, it was me.
 
J

Joe

Guest
I detailed in another thread why it's actually a incredibly difficult for them to make sense of that data(if they are indeed collecting it). The claim that they can store Yottabyte(s) of data is unheard of, a Yottabyte is an unbeleivable quantity data. For reference, the world generates a few Zettabytes every year which is roughly 1/1000th of a Yottabyte. All human speech ever spoken is estimated to be roughly 42 zettabytes(source). Pasted from the other thread:

You dont have to monitor . just key words or specific sites . Right now The Southern poverty Law center has put out a list of Right wing extremist propanda . Right wing sites like Metabunk :) . ​the same site that labeled the Family Research Council a hate group which made them a target for a Left wing hater . Family Research Council Shooter Charged with Assault with a Weapon http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79807.html
 
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