Debunked: DHS orders 450 million .40 caliber bullets for use in America

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MikeC

Closed Account
I said I wouldnt be back but the unbelieveable stupidity on this site, I cant believe. First, gold and silver has been used as currency or to barter with for over 500 years! Yes, food, water, ammo, etc is also good. But to say gold and silver is not is stupid.


Yet again yuo completely misunderstand and/or mis-represent the position.

Precious metals and other objects have been good for currency for 500 years or more - sure (I presume 500 is a mis-type) - but only in the context of some sort of society that values them.

with a TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF SOCIETY (which is the pint that was beign discussed) they no longer have that value.

There will always be precious commodities - but if food is more important than gold then food will be more valuable than gold. And if society collapses, as is postulated, then the structures that give value to gold - jewellery, rarity, ego - will no longer be important to most people. Food will be important. fuel will be important. Ammunition and tools wil lbe important.

If you have 1 can of food left how much gold will you sell it for if there is not a dependable market that lets you buy more food with gold? How much gold would you pay for farm tools that let you grow food indefinitely??

This guy who calls himself " mick" does his best to push official govt. stories. He likes to " debunk chemtrails"
NEWS FLASH- The govt has already admitted to it! There are official documents of this!

Where? links please?

Of the spraying, of the weather modification. AGAIN, the govt has already admitted to it. There are officials govt documents to read!

Again - where?

Or are you talking about things like cloud seeding and crop dusting that are not secret in the first place? that are not done from airliners at high altitude on clear days??

Weather modification is cloud seeding - it is not what chemtrails are supposedly about - chemtrails aer supposedly visible from aircraft flying at high altitude on clear days and they are trails that last for a long time - cloud seeding fits none of that.


NOW, I would like ALL THE INFRAGARD members on here to raise their hands!!!! Hey MICK you know who that is, right?

You guys have fun. Heading back to ALEX JONES. THIS PLACE IS THE MATRIX. I am taking the red pill.

I am sure you will find him soothing and rest ful after all this nasty exposure to facts!!
 

cheeple

Member
with a TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF SOCIETY (which is the pint that was beign discussed) they no longer have that value.

Study how Gold and Silver was used during the Hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic, read "When money dies" there are many stories, one is a woman who sold gold from her crucifix link chain one at a time and that paid for food, clothes, and shelter for her and her family for 5 years.
That book is pretty good and it'll give you a better understanding of the fundamentals with regard to Economies, Money, and Metals.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Study how Gold and Silver was used during the Hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic, read "When money dies" there are many stories, one is a woman who sold gold from her crucifix link chain one at a time and that paid for food, clothes, and shelter for her and her family for 5 years.
That book is pretty good and it'll give you a better understanding of the fundamentals with regard to Economies, Money, and Metals.

But that was not a total breakdown of society, it was the local devaluation of one currency. Gold could still be exchanged for money in the outside world, and hence still had value. Society still existed, even within Germany.
 

cheeple

Member
But that was not a total breakdown of society, it was the local devaluation of one currency. Gold could still be exchanged for money in the outside world, and hence still had value. Society still existed, even within Germany.

I thought we were talking about the inevitable economic collapse to the dollar? If we are talking about a pole shift or meteor strike or something along those lines then i would rather have food presuming I survived and so did some others. Now if we are talking about economic collapses which have happened dozens of times to countries with a central bank and govt's that enslave their citizenry with Fiat currency, It's a natural cycle but then reset is necessary, in that case you would rather have Gold and Silver than paper Fiat after you've secured food to ride it out, simply for the reason you mentioned it could be exchanged for hyperinflated currency to buy what you couldn't barter with and also it allows people to transfer their wealth from one paradigm to another because it's money. I see somehow we went from Economic Collapse to the utter destruction of the planet, lol
 
H

hulio

Guest
They just placed an order for another 750 Million rounds, the National Guard is Training with foreign Military, They had hardened eastern European Soldiers "policing" Hardin Montana, They are getting ready for Rioting, Civil Unrest, and Martial Law, they know the economy is going to collapse, it's an inevitable consequence of Fiat Currency, Fiat Currency has a normal life span of about 27 years we are currently at around 50 and real debt is 222 Trillion Dollars. The federal govt is broke, every state, County, and City is massively in debt, scranton ipennsylvania are paying police minimum wage, Vallejo and Stockton here in California have claimed bankruptcy, not sure which one you want to try to debunk first I'm new here but it's obvious the DHS knows something and is preparing.

I have heard this several times , but have never heard of locations of the training now you mention Montana , what would take them there
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
http://faaco.faa.gov/attachments/Section_J_Att_J_8_Firearms_Qual_Std.doc

. Each FAA contract security officer will qualify with the firearm assigned to them, by serial number, using the same ammunition carried on duty and stored for emergency use.
[...]
FAA contract security officer will qualify using the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) course of fire or a standard course of fire prescribed by the State for armed guard security officer qualification that meets or exceeds the DHS standards.
Content from External Source
Which would seem to suggest the DHS would use the same ammunition. It would certainly make sense, as different ammo will shoot differently.

It may be more expensive, IDK, I don't buy it, but as a DHS agent I can tell you we do shoot all hollow point at the range, because "train like you fight" Very rarely I have used frangible ammo, but that was when shooting steel plates
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Ball ammo.

I can't think of too many reasons to use Hollow Points in training unless the goal is to train specific ballistics as far as penetration and ricochets. They are too expensive.

That is a lot of HP ammo that:

a. Isn't suitable for the battlefield per Geneva Convention.

b. Is too expensive to use for Training.

c. Is in High Demand by citizens.

Is there any actual evidence that they would not use standard ammo in training? What exactly would they use instead?

Here's some anecdotes:
Dave RNsays:May 4, 2012 at 6:23 am
I called my nephew, who works for the DHS on the Mexican Border. They do indeed use hollow points for target practice. And they burn through a lot of them.
Content from External Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy and reduction of smoke, fouling, and lead vapour exposure, as hollow point bullets have an enclosed base while traditional bullets have an exposed lead base.
Content from External Source


And given that they use at least 100 times as much in training as in the field, does that mean there's a contract out there for 45 billion rounds of practice ammo?

The contract is not for 450 million. That's just the upper end of the availability. The actual amount ordered is likely to be much lower.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Even Fox News is debunking this now:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ent-homeland-security-buying-so-many-bullets/

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises. Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.
Content from External Source
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
Even Fox News is debunking this now:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ent-homeland-security-buying-so-many-bullets/

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises. Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.
Content from External Source

If the number of rounds is actually 1.6 Billion, assuming (i vaguely remember this figure from somewhere) there are approximately 200,000 federal law enforcement people, that would be 8,000 rounds per federal law enforcement person.

If, as the Fox News article says, this purchase is spread out over the next 4 to 5 years, this would bring the "rounds per federal law enforcement person" down to 1,600 to 2,000 per year.

I know when i go to the pistol range, i go through AT LEAST 300 rounds.

Trying to add some persepctive. :cool:
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Did anyone look at the DHS data on ammo use?
1. 16.2 million rnds at one training facility with 14 ranges. >100,000 per day shows 162 training days in 2008.
100,000 rnds over 14 ranges mean 7,142 rnds per range. No info on how many shooters each range can support. None-the-less, that is a lot of shooting per training day per range. The slide mentions 3 other facilities and provide ammo use for 2 of the 3. The ammo mentioned on the slide is 33.6 million rnds. The slide says 83% of the ammo is reduced hazard ammo (RHA).
2. I don't believe JHPs would be considered RHA (could be wrong). 83% of 33.6 million is 27.9 million. If 83% of your training is using RHA why do you need up to 90 million rounds of JHP.
3. The ID/IQ contract for 450 million rnds is NOT the only contract DHS has for ammo. One site (I have not validated their assertion) say DHS has contracted for 1.2 BILLION (that is not a typo) rnds of ammo.
4. Finding detail info on numbers of DHS personnel which would normally carry firearms and therefore need firearms training is difficult to find (for me--maybe I am just a bad goggler). At any rate I did find in the DHS 2013 budget that DHS is planning on 21370 Border Patrol agents and 21186 Customs and Border Protection officer. There is only a total for Secret Service personnel of 7k+. Certainly not all would be armed. TSA is responsible for Federal Air Marshal's (FAM) and there is not listing of the total FAMs in TSA. Several other organizations within DHS also would logically need firearms and therefore training (i.e., Coast Guard). Unfortunately, no detailed information is available on the number of armed personnel. I would think both groups normally would carry firearms. I is a total of 42556. Using the numbers in the DHS slide and 42k+ agents/officers you get 790 rnds per year per person-not an unreasonable ammo of ammo to be consumed in training and/or qualification per year. However, the slide does not say this is all the ammo fired by DHS. This would mean the rnd per person per year would get higher as you add in other ammo usage. Since I cannot find detailed figures on the number of DHS personnel that would use firearms I would assert that 42566 is to few and adding addition personnel to the 42556 total would reduce rnds per year.

Ammo use by DHS for the number of personnel and the admitted usage is not out of line given the limited information.

What does not track is why DHS needs up to 90 million rnds of .40 S&W JHPs.

Since DHS is warning to civil unrest in the U.S., it makes one wonder what is really going on.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Since DHS is warning to civil unrest in the U.S.

They are? Why do you say that?

That strikes me as a "backsplanation", like A says "why are the DHS buying so many bullets, they must be planning for civil unrest", then B says "I heard that the DHS are planning for civil unrest, that must be why they are buying so many bullets!"
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Should they NOT have some sort of plan? Just because you build a tornado shelter, doesn't mean you know a tornado is going to hit your house. I have seen multiple people advocating a violent overthrow of the government, that makes it a possibility, just like a storm is.

We EXPECT them to be prepared.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Did anyone look at the DHS data on ammo use?
1. 16.2 million rnds at one training facility with 14 ranges. >100,000 per day shows 162 training days in 2008.
100,000 rnds over 14 ranges mean 7,142 rnds per range.

They are training ranges - you'd expect them to be quite busy wouldn't you??

If they have 10 lanes per range that is an average of 700 rounds per lane - about 3-4 shooters per day.

but Glynco is not just straight shooting lanes -

Glynco is the headquarters facility for the FLETC. It is situated on 1,600 acres in southeast Georgia with modern conventional facilities such as classrooms, dormitories, and administrative and logistical support structures, including a dining hall capable of serving more than 4,000 meals per day. Additionally, Glynco has 18 firearms ranges, including a state-of-the-art indoor range complex with 146 separate firing points; and eight highly versatile semi-enclosed ranges with 200 additional firing points. Other training assets include a sprawling complex of driver training ranges, a physical techniques facility, explosives range, fully functional mock port of entry, and numerous other structures which support the entire training effort.
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they can support 4000 meals a day??

I don't know how long people stay there - but if it's all day, 3 meals, that's a capacity of over 1300 people per day - which is only a little more than 70 rounds per person per day if they aer all shooting!!

no doubt some meals are for instructional and support staff though - so the number ofshooters would apepar to be somewhat less than that - let's say 1000 for teh sake of having a figure.

that means a little more than 100 rounds per shooter per day if at ful capacity. No doubt they have busy and off days though - so let's double it for the sake of having a figure to talk about - 200 rounds per shooter per day

That doesn't sound like much to me at all!

No info on how many shooters each range can support. None-the-less, that is a lot of shooting per training day per range.

If you do not know how many shooters then you cannot support that conclusion!

BTW that info wasn't hard to find - I just googled "Glynco range" and the site was the first hit - even a miniscule amount of research can be your friend!
 
J

Joe

Guest
They are? Why do you say that?

That strikes me as a "backsplanation", like A says "why are the DHS buying so many bullets, they must be planning for civil unrest", then B says "I heard that the DHS are planning for civil unrest, that must be why they are buying so many bullets!"
They have been training in Florida for civil unrest for quite a while . Where did I here that ? FDLE ! Could be from a Finacial collapse ? or Zimmerman walking ? a natrual disaster ? Its probabaly been going on for years even before Obama .
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Maybe you are too young to remember the riots of the 70s. Of course they train for 'civil unrest'. So does you local police dept. They would derelict in their duty if they didn't. Just like they train for hurricanes, and tornadoes and in some places earthquakes.

If you read that you local 'fast water rescue' squad was practicing, would you then decide that they KNOW that it will flood soon. They are training because that it PART of their job.

Stop reading something into, that isn't there.
 

woodsman

New Member
Should they NOT have some sort of plan? Just because you build a tornado shelter, doesn't mean you know a tornado is going to hit your house. I have seen multiple people advocating a violent overthrow of the government, that makes it a possibility, just like a storm is.

We EXPECT them to be prepared.

"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" seems like an excellent management plan. Apparently to some being prepared for the worst is all the proof they need to indict you for conspiring to COMMIT the worst. With the budget they consume, I'd expect DHS to have a contingency plan for alien invasion.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
They have been training in Florida for civil unrest for quite a while . Where did I here that ? FDLE ! Could be from a Finacial collapse ? or Zimmerman walking ? a natrual disaster ? Its probabaly been going on for years even before Obama .

I wrote up a piece that touches on this very idea (http://tinyurl.com/a3n5855). Using the Wayback Machine (http://archive.org/web/web.php) and focusing on a high profile conspiracist, I was able to go back to 1999 and looked at what was being discussed. It's all the same stuff:

Alex Jones, 1999:

19990508_03.png
takeoverbanner.gif
intro_2.png
19991009_07.png
19991009_08.png

They take these old ideas and they make them new again to the current generation.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
Maybe you are too young to remember the riots of the 70s. Of course they train for 'civil unrest'. So does you local police dept. They would derelict in their duty if they didn't. Just like they train for hurricanes, and tornadoes and in some places earthquakes.

If you read that you local 'fast water rescue' squad was practicing, would you then decide that they KNOW that it will flood soon. They are training because that it PART of their job.

Stop reading something into, that isn't there.

Look at some of the pictures here: http://ironmarch.org/index.php?/topic/212-60s-70s-riots-photos-and-videos/

People forget we had domestic terrorists blowing up police stations and federal buildings.

(EDIT) P.S. I just went back to the link i provided above and started looking around the site. I think i may have pointed everybody to some crazy, radical web site. My apologies if that site is a wacko site. All i saw was the pictures when i posted that link.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
They have been training in Florida for civil unrest for quite a while . Where did I here that ? FDLE ! Could be from a Finacial collapse ? or Zimmerman walking ? a natrual disaster ? Its probabaly been going on for years even before Obama .

But are you suggesting something other than normal and expected civil unrest? You seem to be implying something akin to civil war or the breakdown of society? Why should they not train? What exactly is the problem here?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I have not followed this thread;however, I would like to comment. . . I think many of us are concerned that way too many resources are being used to train and plan for local, regional, or national unrest by the Federal Authorities. . . This use to be the responsibilities of the local, county and state agencies. . . So some of us are simply asking why? And before anyone wants to use 911 as a reason I don't think that is enough justification. . . .
 

RolandD

Active Member
Look at some of the pictures here: http://ironmarch.org/index.php?/topic/212-60s-70s-riots-photos-and-videos/

People forget we had domestic terrorists blowing up police stations and federal buildings.

(EDIT) P.S. I just went back to the link i provided above and started looking around the site. I think i may have pointed everybody to some crazy, radical web site. My apologies if that site is a wacko site. All i saw was the pictures when i posted that link.

That certainly is an interesting and scary site. :eek:
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have not followed this thread;however, I would like to comment. . . I think many of us are concerned that way too many resources are being used to train and plan for local, regional, or national unrest by the Federal Authorities. . . This use to be the responsibilities of the local, county and state agencies. . . So some of us are simply asking why? And before anyone wants to use 911 as a reason I don't think that is enough justification. . . .

Quantify "way too much".
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Quantify "way too much".

I thought it was too much when the department of Homeland Security was established . . . a total waste of time, money and personnel . . . redundant, costly, and invasive . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I thought it was too much when the department of Homeland Security was established . . . a total waste of time, money and personnel . . . redundant, costly, and invasive . . .

But you said "way too many resources are being used to train and plan for local, regional, or national unrest by the Federal Authorities" - so what specifically are you referring to?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
But you said "way too many resources are being used to train and plan for local, regional, or national unrest by the Federal Authorities" - so what specifically are you referring to?

As I said above I have not been following this Thread and I made a general comment . . . I don't know specifics . . . all I have heard is talk of a centralized federal contract for several years to purchase ammo . . . however, the existence of homeland security personnel with weapons, ammo and the resources to practice their use is sufficient for me to complain . . . I am aware of joint military and civilian exercises in urban terrorism and civil unrest . . . IMO . . . this should not be allowed under the constitution . . . it is a local and state function . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Which exercises?

There was a variety of participants in these exercises. More than two-thirdsof the exercises included more than one federal agency and almost one-halfof them included three or more federal agencies. Some exercises alsoincluded participants of organizations other than federal agencies. Forexample, one-third of the exercises included state and/or local governmentparticipants, almost one-tenth of them had nongovernmental participants,and a few had foreign government participants. Federal agencies playedvarious roles in these exercises, depending on their roles and their level ofparticipation. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB55/gaonsiad-99-157br.pdf


Coyote Shield exercise blends military, civiliancapabilities


By Sarah Garner
Hq. SDDC Public Affairs



SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill. -- The 834th Transportation Battalion at Military Ocean TerminalConcord, Calif., joined forces with 12 local and federal emergency agencies April 16-19 to tackle aseries of antiterrorism, force protection and emergency response scenarios presented during the2012 Coyote Shield exercise conducted by the U.S. Army's Military Surface Deployment andDistribution Command.


The scenarios selected for this year's anti-terrorism exercise were based on a domestic terroristscenario and were designed to test battalion personnel, their processes and their coordination withlocal and federal agencies when faced with a variety of emergency situations.


http://www.sddc.army.mil/Other/2012...ise blends military, civlian capabilities.pdf

The Federal Response Plan (FRP) establishes a process and structure for the systematic,coordinated, and effective delivery of Federal assistance to address the consequences of anymajor disaster or emergency declared under the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief andEmergency Assistance Act, as amended (42 U.S. Code (U.S.C.) 5121, et seq.). The FRP:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/frp/frpbasic.pdf





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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Do you actually mean the constitution there, or Posse Comitatus?

Where do they say the military is practicing for civil unrest? These seem to be counterterrorism exercises.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Do you actually mean the constitution there, or Posse Comitatus?

Where do they say the military is practicing for civil unrest? These seem to be counterterrorism exercises.

What do you think civil unrest is . . . domestic terrorism would qualify don't you think??


Pentagon to Detail Troops to Bolster Domestic Security
Content from External Source


By Spencer S. Hsu and Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, December 1, 2008

The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials.
The long-planned shift in the Defense Department's role in homeland security was recently backed with funding and troop commitments after years of prodding by Congress and outside experts, defense analysts said.
There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians who express concern that the new homeland emphasis threatens to strain the military and possibly undermine the Posse Comitatus Act, a 130-year-old federal law restricting the military's role in domestic law enforcement.

The American Civil Liberties Union and the libertarian Cato Institute are troubled by what they consider an expansion of executive authority. Domestic emergency deployment may be "just the first example of a series of expansions in presidential and military authority," or even an increase in domestic surveillance, said Anna Christensen of the ACLU's National Security Project. And Cato Vice President Gene Healy warned of "a creeping militarization" of homeland security.

"There's a notion that whenever there's an important problem, that the thing to do is to call in the boys in green," Healy said, "and that's at odds with our long-standing tradition of being wary of the use of standing armies to keep the peace."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217.html?hpid=topnews
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
Even natural disasters can overwhelm local and state response teams. Both Katrina and Sandy showed that. In the case of a dirty bomb, which is a possibility (when the Soviet Union collapsed, there was plenty of radioactive material that went 'missing' to make several dirty bombs--the only hope is that that material is really MISSING---sort of like the pot head that complained after a police raid "I was sort of hoping they would find that stash, I don't know where it is either"), many local responders may well be with their families.

I doubt if you understand all the folks needed. I have a friend, who has been trained as an animal responder. She goes to an area where there has been natural disaster, to just care for the animals that left behind. After Katrina, it is a federal law that there must be provisions made for folks pets, if evacuation is needed. (there were folks that died in Katrina because they would leave pets behind).
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Even natural disasters can overwhelm local and state response teams. Both Katrina and Sandy showed that. In the case of a dirty bomb, which is a possibility (when the Soviet Union collapsed, there was plenty of radioactive material that went 'missing' to make several dirty bombs--the only hope is that that material is really MISSING---sort of like the pot head that complained after a police raid "I was sort of hoping they would find that stash, I don't know where it is either"), many local responders may well be with their families.

I doubt if you understand all the folks needed. I have a friend, who has been trained as an animal responder. She goes to an area where there has been natural disaster, to just care for the animals that left behind. After Katrina, it is a federal law that there must be provisions made for folks pets, if evacuation is needed. (there were folks that died in Katrina because they would leave pets behind).
The point is . . . the Federal Government should be invited in . . . and not provision themselves to take over by greatly increasing its manpower by the use of Federal Troops as is the example above . . . we have done very well over the years without the use of the Military . . . there is a Constitutionally valid separation that should be honored. . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
There are roughly 1 million military personnel stationed in the USA. I'd have thought that if htey weer plannign a takeover they'd be allocating more than 20,000 of them??

IF the Federal govt is invited as you say they should be, then they still need to have troops available and well enoughed trained to fulfill whatever role they are invited to perform. you are making the same mistake as TCW has been noted for above - because they are preparing in advance you think they must be therefore planning to cause it.

That is a logical fallacy that should be obvious to you.

In fact the 2011 report makes it sound like this is a new thing - it is not. Defence support of civil authorities has been occuring in the USA since 1794 - here's a Library of Congress report into it since 1950:

On December 1, 1950, by authority of Executive Order 10186, President Harry S. Truman established the Federal Civil Defense Administration and requested legislation providing statutory authority for the agency. One month later, Congress enacted Pub.L.No. 81–920, the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950. This law, until its repeal in 1994 by Pub.L.No. 103–337, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1995, provided primary statutory authority for MSCA regulations (Title 32, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 185). Other disaster relief statutes enacted over time also provided authority for the internal DoD directives governing military support/assistance to civil authorities and military support to civil defense (see below, DoD regulatory documents). In 1994 the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, Pub.L.No. 93–288, was enacted. As amended and codified at 42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq this law is the primary authority enabling DoD to engage in domestic consequence management operations.10 In 2004 Congress amended Title 32 of the U.S. Code to provide clear statutory authority for the use of National Guard forces in support of homeland defense activities.
Content from External Source
This latest case is nothing more than a conspiracy beatup.

also this is not a breach of Posse Comitatus for several reasons - the wiki article on the act is probably as good an overview of why not as any.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
There are roughly 1 million military personnel stationed in the USA. I'd have thought that if htey weer plannign a takeover they'd be allocating more than 20,000 of them??

IF the Federal govt is invited as you say they should be, then they still need to have troops available and well enoughed trained to fulfill whatever role they are invited to perform. you are making the same mistake as TCW has been noted for above - because they are preparing in advance you think they must be therefore planning to cause it.

That is a logical fallacy that should be obvious to you.

In fact the 2011 report makes it sound like this is a new thing - it is not. Defence support of civil authorities has been occuring in the USA since 1794 - here's a Library of Congress report into it since 1950:

On December 1, 1950, by authority of Executive Order 10186, President Harry S. Truman established the Federal Civil Defense Administration and requested legislation providing statutory authority for the agency. One month later, Congress enacted Pub.L.No. 81–920, the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950. This law, until its repeal in 1994 by Pub.L.No. 103–337, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1995, provided primary statutory authority for MSCA regulations (Title 32, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 185). Other disaster relief statutes enacted over time also provided authority for the internal DoD directives governing military support/assistance to civil authorities and military support to civil defense (see below, DoD regulatory documents). In 1994 the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, Pub.L.No. 93–288, was enacted. As amended and codified at 42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq this law is the primary authority enabling DoD to engage in domestic consequence management operations.10 In 2004 Congress amended Title 32 of the U.S. Code to provide clear statutory authority for the use of National Guard forces in support of homeland defense activities.
Content from External Source
This latest case is nothing more than a conspiracy beatup.

also this is not a breach of Posse Comitatus for several reasons - the wiki article on the act is probably as good an overview of why not as any.
Unlike your country, possibly, the US is a country of States . . . in which we have fought for centuries to maintain as much autonomy from Federal domination as possible . . . to include a Civil War where hundreds of thousands died . . . any hint the Federal Government is straying past its mandate will never be taken lightly . . . are Federal Troops seen as a threat . . . Yes!!! . . . unless they stay on their Federal Reservstions and tend to their own knitting . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I have no idea where Federal troops have been used without the request of the state government. Can you tell where this happened?

The only times I can think of, is when a state REFUSED to follow a federal law, such as school integration.

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0925.html

That is just like saying the Tiger in your apartment has never harmed anyone so why should the neighbors be alarmed when they are made aware the Tiger is there . . . I don't like the Tiger, I didn't invite it . . . and I don't think you are capable of controlling such a powerful and potentially dangerous beast . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Unlike your country, possibly, the US is a country of States . . . in which we have fought for centuries to maintain as much autonomy from Federal domination as possible . . . to include a Civil War where hundreds of thousands died . . . any hint the Federal Government is straying past its mandate will never be taken lightly . . . are Federal Troops seen as a threat . . . Yes!!! . . . unless they stay on their Federal Reservstions and tend to their own knitting . . .


you didn't bother to actually read and understand my post, did you??!!:rolleyes:

There is no suggestion of anyone overstepping any boundaries or mandate - except in the feverish imaginations of people who can make money out of inventuing such hoaxes, and the poor fools who believe them.

That is just like saying the Tiger in your apartment has never harmed anyone so why should the neighbors be alarmed when they are made aware the Tiger is there . . . I don't like the Tiger, I didn't invite it . . . and I don't think you are capable of controlling such a powerful and potentially dangerous beast . . .

no - it is nothing of the sort.
 
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