DEBUNKED: David Lim - Public talks on geoengineering / chemtrails in the UK

HappyMonday

Moderator
(ADMIN NOTE - This initial post has been edited to represent a more concise history of the thread's discussion and conclusions).

There have been a series of talks in the UK since April 2013 on chemtrails and geoengineering with one David Lim as a star speaker, first discovered via facebook's Portsmouth Geoengineering and Agenda 21 awareness tour group -

Lim in the paper.jpg

It's taken from the Blackmore Vale magazine, which is an ad-supported periodical under the This is Dorset banner.

Here's an example of David Lim's presentation on Youtube -


David suggests from 23:00 that an aircraft contrail which persists and spreads out should be distinguished from one which does not, and as such those that act this way are ongoing geoengineering spraying. This is a central plank of the chemtrail conspiracy theory and is incorrect, as this debunking article explains. To my mind this immediately invalidates much of the presentation.

In general, another central claim of the presentation is that geoengineering is ongoing in the UK and elsewhere. This would be detectable if it were the case, as this debunking thread on the matter explains.

At approximately 11:00, David refers to a UK government document which discusses the regulation of geoengineering. The relevance of this document to the claim that geoengineering is ongoing in the UK is debunked here.

There are many other disputed claims throughout the presentation, these are just some examples.

The presentation also references some of the major figures in perpetuating chemtrail bunk as 'researchers' at 1:22:00, including Michael J. Murphy (work by whom is debunked here), Dane Wigington (some recent claims debunked here, and historically elsewhere on Metabunk), and G.Edward Griffin (one of his claims is debunked here, via this post).

CPUK (Chemtrails Project UK) is also mentioned in the list. Their work and some dubious claims are discussed/criticised here.

Finally, the Youtube user hosting this video, believed to be David Lim himself, has been caught out deleting questions from the channel comments which challenge the claims in the presentation.

Moving on from the presentation and according to a metabunk user, David Lim has suggested in correspondence that:

"...air quality testing for metal particulates is only at its infancy in the UK,".

This claim is suspect as the UK has a relatively sophisticated pollution monitoring network. The way in which this relates to testing of rain and snow in the US which the work of some of David's 'researchers' cite as support for their conclusions about chemtrail activity, is discussed extensively in this thread from this point.
 

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HappyMonday

Moderator
Here's David Lim's presentation as advertised above, now on Youtube -



I skipped straight to 20 mins, and already have heard the premise that geoengineering is ongoing right now, and am being assailed with pictures of aircraft contrails.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
It would also appear that David Lim is engaging with critics and accepting corrections in the Youtube comments, which is a marked departure from almost every other YT vid on the subject -

Dave Lim Correction.JPG
 

Danny55

Senior Member.
He is just basically regurgitating all the "evidence" used to date by chemtrail proponents. Only watched it for 20 mins or so, from his "thought experiment" through the germ warfare tests to the HR2977 bill, where he claims that the US government made up the word chemtrails.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
He is just basically regurgitating all the "evidence" used to date by chemtrail proponents. Only watched it for 20 mins or so, from his "thought experiment" through the germ warfare tests to the HR2977 bill, where he claims that the US government made up the word chemtrails.

Yes, it seems like he's been rather selective in the sources he used for research. I've posted a few points in the comments.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
It looks as though all critical/skeptical comments have been deleted, save the one by Daniel Thompson you pasted above.

Assuming it is he running the channel, it's fair to say David Lim has no interest in debating the apparent errors in his presentation in public then.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I hardly think watching 20 minutes qualifies as listening to an argument that is is of such great import to us all. You cannot dispute that the climate is doing some pretty freaky things, in the UK we nearly drowned last year and now we have the coldest and driest April on record. None of the trees or flowers are coming into blossom or growing as they should this time of the year, and many of us are sick, especially with autoimmune illnesses and low level malaise. Add to this the provable fact that our government has been experimenting with weather weapons since the 1950's. I can post the links to highly regarded british newspapers such as the Guardian if you wish, I am not sucking this out of my thumb. Google the Lynmouth flood disaster which has just become declassified in my country when the RAF rainmakers killed 35 people. Not conspiracy bunkum, fact. Google the other declassified information, how we were bombarded by germs and poisons including cadmium, causing birth defects from the 50's onwards, these experiments went on as far as they will presently admit, until the end of the 70's, now expect me to trust my government, let alone yours. It is also a provable fact that the EU approached your government to ask them to research the environmental and ecological impact of HAARP and were brushed off. It is indisputed that it can cause a bubble in the ionosphere, knock out powergrids and even be able to cause disturbances to the earth's natural magnetic frequencies, possible resulting in earthquakes and tsunamis. You can help to put out disinformation or perhaps you are trawling for my details, which I am sure you are doing. I have a 5 year old and this Scalar technology is going to do more damage to all of us than nucleur ever did. After 60 years of weather experimentation we would have to be pretty stupid to not have made these discoveries that you say are impossible. I can only assume you have no family or do not care for them, or you are a government drone.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I hardly think watching 20 minutes qualifies as listening to an argument that is is of such great import to us all. You cannot dispute that the climate is doing some pretty freaky things, in the UK we nearly drowned last year and now we have the coldest and driest April on record. None of the trees or flowers are coming into blossom or growing as they should this time of the year, and many of us are sick, especially with autoimmune illnesses and low level malaise. Add to this the provable fact that our government has been experimenting with weather weapons since the 1950's. I can post the links to highly regarded british newspapers such as the Guardian if you wish, I am not sucking this out of my thumb. Google the Lynmouth flood disaster which has just become declassified in my country when the RAF rainmakers killed 35 people. Not conspiracy bunkum, fact. Google the other declassified information, how we were bombarded by germs and poisons including cadmium, causing birth defects from the 50's onwards, these experiments went on as far as they will presently admit, until the end of the 70's, now expect me to trust my government, let alone yours. It is also a provable fact that the EU approached your government to ask them to research the environmental and ecological impact of HAARP and were brushed off. It is indisputed that it can cause a bubble in the ionosphere, knock out powergrids and even be able to cause disturbances to the earth's natural magnetic frequencies, possible resulting in earthquakes and tsunamis. You can help to put out disinformation or perhaps you are trawling for my details, which I am sure you are doing. I have a 5 year old and this Scalar technology is going to do more damage to all of us than nucleur ever did. After 60 years of weather experimentation we would have to be pretty stupid to not have made these discoveries that you say are impossible. I can only assume you have no family or do not care for them, or you are a government drone.

Perhaps you would like to register, and then pick one of those subjects, so we can discuss it?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Google the Lynmouth flood disaster which has just become declassified in my country when the RAF rainmakers killed 35 people. Not conspiracy bunkum, fact.


Not fact - conspiracy bunkum.

The first result from your google search is the wiki article, which includes a link to this page on Project Cumulus which was that rainmaking experiment, and which notes that no evidence exists of the supposed causal link.

Conspiracy theorists insist that the documents proving the link no longer exist because they have been destroyed. Of course.....:rolleyes:
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I wonder what caused the floods in the 1607 and 1796.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I wonder what caused the floods in the 1607 and 1796.

Tsunami in 1607:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Channel_floods,_1607
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I see that David Lim is using the same Ballast Barrel Hoax tactic that John Massaria used. This is so sad to see a qualified scientist become ensnared in such a hoax. Beginning on March 18th, and also through his Facebook and Youtube channels I did my best to invite him over here for a polite discussion, but he seems to have jumped off the cliff or have fallen under the very bad influence of this hoax. Unless we can talk some sense into him, all we can do is debunk him. His professional credibility and career is likely to suffer.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
I see that David Lim is using the same Ballast Barrel Hoax tactic that John Massaria used. This is so sad to see a qualified scientist become ensnared in such a hoax. Beginning on March 18th, and also through his Facebook and Youtube channels I did my best to invite him over here for a polite discussion, but he seems to have jumped off the cliff or have fallen under the very bad influence of this hoax. Unless we can talk some sense into him, all we can do is debunk him. His professional credibility and career is likely to suffer.
I would be seriously concerned about my future employability if, as a PhD candidate, I were attaching my name to something like this, to be forever propagated on the internet. Employers do internet searches. I understand that this topic is outside of his direct expertise, but he clearly hasn't approached the topic with the sort of background research and intellectual rigor that would be expected of him.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Perhaps you would like to register, and then pick one of those subjects, so we can discuss it?

Please please please pick this one: many of us are sick, especially with autoimmune illnesses and low level malaise.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
I hardly think watching 20 minutes qualifies as listening to an argument that is is of such great import to us all.

It does when the first 20 minutes contains the basis for what follows, in this case hanging the whole presentation on the same flawed premises that have been shown to be false numerous times before.

Shame for David, he's blown the chance of anybody other than fear-porn addicts taking his crusade seriously at the first hurdle, even if the rest of the presentation IS dynamite.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I have been out if the loop for a bit. I think I brought David Lim up on here. Unfortunately I got blocked by loads of FB pages. Thanks for the link, he has claimed he has "secret" knowledge gained from Reading University and I was considering contacting them.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
I have been out if the loop for a bit. I think I brought David Lim up on here. Unfortunately I got blocked by loads of FB pages. Thanks for the link, he has claimed he has "secret" knowledge gained from Reading University and I was considering contacting them.
The article also said he "believes. . . . " Heck, I "believe" I'm gonna win the Powerball lottery tomorrow.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
The article also said he "believes. . . . " Heck, I "believe" I'm gonna win the Powerball lottery tomorrow.

I posted a screen shot of a FB comment he made and he claims he has information that will blow the university world apart but he will only come forward when he has his Phd.

I will link it when I get to a PC.

I have been blocked from a number of FB pages recently that are lauding Mr Lim as a possible insider. I have been challenging vigorously the recent presumptions about our weather etc and challenging their data, and lack of method. I even received some threats.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Despite the earlier defence of '20 minutes', I suppose that talk does need properly debunking. This guy's obviously going to be one to deal with in the future.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Despite the earlier defence of '20 minutes', I suppose that talk does need properly debunking. This guy's obviously going to be one to deal with in the future.

There's no benefit to going through it point by point though - it's all REALLY old stuff. Just note something he's got really wrong, and then note that he refuses to retract it, and deletes all attempts to point out his mistakes.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
There's no benefit to going through it point by point though - it's all REALLY old stuff. Just note something he's got really wrong, and then note that he refuses to retract it, and deletes all attempts to point out his mistakes.

I feel it may be a point of debunking an individual Mick. However I feel extremely uncomfortable doing that. My plan is to contact the uni but that seems spiteful. I have no problem my name coming into things but I would hate to hurt someone. But his failure to engage says.mountains.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
1b.jpg2b.jpg3b.jpg4b.jpg5b.jpg
Screen captures of some of the deleted comments. Thank you HappyMonday for alerting me to the deletions before I got off the page. Mr. Lim can not deny that some of his errors have not been shown to him.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Between 10:49 and 11:20 of Mr. Lim's video, he implys that an increase in Rickets is a result of geoengineering (chemtrails). When I was a child growing up in the 60's and 70's, if I wasn't in school and/or I didn't have homework, I played in the outdoors without sunscreen. Pong was a brand new game introduced towards the end of my childhood that few children in my neighborhood had access to.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/8472469.stm
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/01January/Pages/Rickets-on-the-rise.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/21/rickets-increase-milk-supplement

Perhaps, we need to find a balance between our obsession with sunscreen to protect against cancer and the time our children waste on gaming.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
So, where is this David Lim and why is he hiding away when we are all challenging him here to debate these issues? Is he a man or a mouse? Does he actually have the temerity to believe he can get away forever regurgitating nonsense and no one will ever call his hand on it? Does he actually think that deleting comments on YouTube will be enough to protect him from folks pointing out when he makes mistakes and repeats long-discredited lies? There is no future in deletion of opposition, that fools game is a slow way to end your credibility, slow maybe but just as surely anyone who uses it will end up the loser.

Those days are over, Lim. It is time to "man up" and stand accused as you would accuse others. Time to get out in front of your critics or they will get in front of you.
 

Spacedog

New Member
I have E-mailed Dr Runming Yao, David Lim's Supervisor at The University of Reading, to make her aware of his behavior and the reflection it makes on her University:

Dr Yao,

I would like to bring your attention to the activities of Mr David Lim, and the claims he is making about Chemtrails and HAARP.

I watched a presentation he made on Youtube entitled "Geoengineering & Chemtrails"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLTJG4ZGaU and noted some serious errors.​

I bought some of these errors to his attention in the comments, and he accepted the errors and offered some additional information, which I countered with information of my own. David then proceeded to delete my responses, presumably because they made a mockery of his rationale for saying HAARP was being used for weather modification and caused earthquakes.​

Fortunately a keen eyed viewer noted the deletions and managed to take screenshots of the messages, which are posted here https://www.metabunk.org/posts/35560

As you can see my comments were part of the ongoing discussion and the only reason I can see that David deleted them is they made his theory look untenable.​

I have asked him for his response on this matter but none has been forthcoming.​

I find this behavior disgraceful for a man who claims to have academic credentials. He makes it clear that what he is saying he does so in his own capacity, but it does not reflect well on your University that he is associated with it.​

May I suggest you ask him to consider the behavior he displays online more carefully in case it reflects badly on your University?​

Yours Sincerely,​

Daniel Thompson BSc​
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HappyMonday

Moderator
I have E-mailed Dr Runming Yao, David Lim's Supervisor at The University of Reading, to make her aware of his behavior and the reflection it makes on her University:

It's worth bearing in mind that it may not be the man himself running the Youtube account bearing his name. Stranger sock-puppets have happened.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Here's a new one on me. The
British Association for the Prevention of Geoengineering Facebook group, of which David Lim is one of two members at the moment. Here's the information they list -



Nothing appears in a Google search for this organisation, but the files section does list the following guidelines for posting, should any of you wish to try and join -

EDIT - At a guess, this will be the website for this organisation, pulled from the next posters link but currently inactive - www.idbg.org
 
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