Debunked: Cop Car Towed to Media Location then Torched at Million Mask March - BX10 LNV

LouV

Member
Copper was seen driving this very car earlier that day, and subsequently was filmed in plain clothes pulling the arsonist away from the car that evening.
Wait... If this picture was really taken "earlier that day", doesn't it disprove the other claim, that the car wasn't drivable since 2010 ??
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
efa1bcad41eaa3812ebe6e2d9e2e782e._.png

Are London's finest riding around in faulty 5 year-old cars ?

Interesting claim.

1. Could you at least admit that your assertion that the Police do not operate five year old vehicles was inaccurate, as demonstrated by several people on here already?

2. Could you also please admit that unnamed twitter claims are hearsay and hardly 'overwhelming' evidence?
 

LouV

Member
Wait... If this picture was really taken "earlier that day", doesn't it disprove the other claim, that the car wasn't drivable since 2010 ??
*see dated picture above*
Well, so much for this theory ; and great find Ray Von.
(I say it again, and I think at least a few regular members who answered share this opinion : I am not interested in being a "naysayer" for the fun of it or because I have something against the MMM. But please guys, check your claims, in order to avoid discrediting your movement.)
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
WE decide what's enough for us to post. YOU decide whether you want to do more research.
And we are free to call what *you* post (who is 'we'?) inadequate, especially on a site dedicated to simple clear informative posting. You made a claim that the infographic debunks Mick's debunk, when it does no such thing. The claim was that the towing picture was of the car being put into place so it could be torched, which is clearly disproven. You're simply making a separate and new claim that a car being towed several years ago means it has not been in use at all since then and was planted specifically to torch, for which you've presented no actual evidence.
*see dated picture above*
Well, so much for this theory ; and great find Ray Von.
(I say it again, and I think at least a few regular members who answered share this opinion : I am not interested in being a "naysayer" for the fun of it or because I have something against the MMM. But please guys, check your claims, in order to avoid discrediting your movement.)
Perhaps the claims of psyops being used to discredit MMM are actually themselves a meta-psyop to discredit MMM.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
*see dated picture above*
Well, so much for this theory ; and great find Ray Von.
(I say it again, and I think at least a few regular members who answered share this opinion : I am not interested in being a "naysayer" for the fun of it or because I have something against the MMM. But please guys, check your claims, in order to avoid discrediting your movement.)
I can't take much credit, it came straight up in Google image. It's actually in Mick's earlier post in this thread.

Ray Von
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
WE decide what's enough for us to post. YOU decide whether you want to do more research.

Well, I am late to this discussion today.

But it appears the participants on this thread did more research. In the process, they addressed the distinction between a towed car and a burned car, a vehicle separated by four years and that is about it.

If you want to regain some traction in the discussion, now would be a good time to invoke your overwhelming evidence.

I don't understand the reluctance to do so. If your goal is to win people over to your point of view, it seems reasonable to make an effort to do so.

So why the reluctance?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
WE decide what's enough for us to post.

And WE decide whether you have backed up your claims with sufficient (or even any0 evidence.

YOU decide whether you want to do more research.

Everyone always decides whether to do more research - you do to.

However telling people that YOU have the evidence but THEY have to do research to find it smacks of dishonesty -because asking you for he evidence you have IS research.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
We did our own research, and showed our work, and cited our sources. What you consider enough to post does not stand up to scrutiny.

The item this this person (honestly the pictures makes it look like they aren't even the arsonist, they're approaching the car from behind when it's already burning near the front) is carrying is definitely not a truncheon. The car was definitely not inoperable or no longer in service.

That isn't to say they are a member of Anonymous and not some random hooligan taking advantage of the demonstration to get away with some mayhem. Why not just stick to the usual Anonymous response when somebody gets in trouble? "Anonymous can be anyone, anywhere, doing anything. But not that guy that got in trouble. Anonymous isn't them, we're not there, we don't do that." It's worked in cases a lot clearer than this, or have you decided you can't have it both ways anymore? If so, why now, when you actually have plausible deniability?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
These claims make no sense anyway. Why would you tow an old police car into position, and be photographed doing so, when you could just drive one of the regular police cars there, avoiding all suspicion, and then torch it? If it was done for publicity then I am sure the Met could afford to write off a Zafira.

The people who dream up these "false flag" scenarios have a very overcomplicated way of looking at a problem. :)
 

eon_flux

New Member
That isn't to say they are a member of Anonymous and not some random hooligan taking advantage of the demonstration to get away with some mayhem. Why not just stick to the usual Anonymous response when somebody gets in trouble? "Anonymous can be anyone, anywhere, doing anything. But not that guy that got in trouble.

Spot on. Anonymous is Anonymous. It is not centrally controlled or coordinated as such. I believe that many people who attend something like MMM, or claim to be part of the movement haven't even visited 4Chan, let alone been active hackers.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Spot on. Anonymous is Anonymous. It is not centrally controlled or coordinated as such. I believe that many people who attend something like MMM, or claim to be part of the movement haven't even visited 4Chan, let alone been active hackers.
Anyone can be an Anonymous member, for 88 pence (including delivery)...

image.png
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Wow that's cheaper than I found. cheapest I got was £1,75 and ranging up to £6.99.
Makes me wonder whether the WHOLE march wasn't organised by mask manufacturers (in the same way Princess Di's death was organised by a cabal of Florists)

Personally I would say that the continuing use of trying to use this meme of the cop car with pics of it being towed (which is not relevant as it has been seen driving since) are a VERY STRONG indicator that there IS no overwhelming evidence. seeing as how we can fairly clearly see the face of the guy pulling the guy breaking the windscreen off the car, and we can see half his face clearly in photos, I would say if they are undercover cops then they are VERY sloppy. They have a perfect excuse to wear masks and yet didn't.

Not only that, but their PR department screwed up badly too, cos in the BBC's reporting of the incident, the Met said
, so they were pretty much saying this was not representative of the march as a whole. As A psyop it would be pretty crap, even without those eagle eyed fighters for truth and justice who notice it needed towing 4 years earlier.
 

TerlinguaRE

Banned
Banned
Hello again all you dedicated debunkers!

Thought we'd give you an update while Mom's taking away your dinner tray:

If we were to give an award for the most collaborative, most cowardly, most blindly allegiant and least objective, least investigative and least aggressive - in a word, Sheeplish - Tweet posted to date about the #MMMFalseFlagOp, @MickWest would receive it:

"@TerlinguaRE2 Quite clearly they are driving five year old cars. Why on earth would they not. And the fire was set with paper."


We've rode horses with more brains, and dug up earthworms with more spine.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
We've rode horses with more brains, and dug up earthworms with more spine.

The important point here is that it's factually true. There are plenty of five year old cars in the Met fleet (based on photographic evidence). And the fire was set with paper, you can see it in the video. First it was piled on the windscreen, and then it looks like a side window was smashed, and burning stuff put inside.

All else is speculation, and has no place here.
 

TerlinguaRE

Banned
Banned
The important point here is that it's factually true. There are plenty of five year old cars in the Met fleet (based on photographic evidence). And the fire was set with paper, you can see it in the video. First it was piled on the windscreen, and then it looks like a side window was smashed, and burning stuff put inside.

All else is speculation, and has no place here.

"The important point here is that it's factually true."

What we posted, YES. What you blindly accept, NO.

"There are plenty of five year old cars in the Met fleet (based on photographic evidence). "

Your say-so is irrelevant, your photographic evidence is absent but would at best be inconclusive, and your failure to join us in demanding @MetPoliceUK release the records on BX10-LNV betrays who butters your bread (or your lack of intestinal fortitude).

"And the fire was set with paper, you can see it in the video."

How much lit paper does it take to burn a car? How much lit paper to bring down a skyscraper? Hmm...

"First it was piled on the windscreen, and then it looks like a side window was smashed, and burning stuff put inside."

And that's the God's honest truth, and the check's in the mail, and I won't come in your mouth.

"All else is speculation, and has no place here."


The only thing that has no place here is critical thinking, objective logic and substantial authoritative evidence.
 

Spectrar Ghost

Senior Member.
A very quick search on Flickr for recent photos of Metropolitan Police vehicles shows plenty in service of similar ages or older.

Taken Oct 31 2015, 60 reg (registered Sep 2010-Feb 2011)

Taken Oct 17 2015, 09 reg (Mar-Aug 2009)

Taken May 19 2015, 58 reg (Sep 2008-Feb 2009)



I'm more concerned by the fact that the police were illegally parked :)


Look! Photographic evidence!
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
"The important point here is that it's factually true."

What we posted, YES. What you blindly accept, NO.

"There are plenty of five year old cars in the Met fleet (based on photographic evidence). "

Your say-so is irrelevant, your photographic evidence is absent but would at best be inconclusive, and your failure to join us in demanding @MetPoliceUK release the records on BX10-LNV betrays who butters your bread (or your lack of intestinal fortitude).

"And the fire was set with paper, you can see it in the video."

How much lit paper does it take to burn a car? How much lit paper to bring down a skyscraper? Hmm...

"First it was piled on the windscreen, and then it looks like a side window was smashed, and burning stuff put inside."

And that's the God's honest truth, and the check's in the mail, and I won't come in your mouth.

"All else is speculation, and has no place here."


The only thing that has no place here is critical thinking, objective logic and substantial authoritative evidence.


I think it is a shame that you chose this particular approach.

But you had many chances to move beyond name calling.

Just a shame.
 

LouV

Member
*sigh* I can't believe we're called "blindly allegiant" and "least objective" when we made it a point to insist that :
- we don't necessarily think that Police had completely innocent actions during the march... but the evidence for such is simply too weak
- we aren't against the MMM and propose alternative scenarios (unaffiliated thugs...) that don't involve either police or Anonymous.
And always nice to have our proposed piece of evidence and questions rejected without even acknowledging, when we acknowledeged and discussed those of the opposition (who could have delivered the rest of their "overwhelming evidence" without posturing).
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Are we meant to take your responses as speaking officially on behalf of anonymous?
Because if that's the case, going by your posts, anonymous are irrational and complete [...].
So nice represent, you're really done them proud.
 

mm1145

Member
"The important point here is that it's factually true."

Your say-so is irrelevant, your photographic evidence is absent but would at best be inconclusive, and your failure to join us in demanding @MetPoliceUK release the records on BX10-LNV betrays who butters your bread (or your lack of intestinal fortitude).

why would that be necessary? your own photographic evidence proves the car was drivable in 2012 after the picture of it being toed was taken (you even tried to pass that of as the same day witch would have been worse)

there is nothing in what you have presented or even speculated to suggest that it was not driven to the seen and attacked by a random hooligan.
 

tadaaa

Senior Member
They are so brazen, so self contradictory, so helplessly at odds with the facts and any reasoned argument - 180deg from reality

The line by line "rebuttal" of Mick West's post is so utterly pathetic, so risible

You seriously wonder whether they themselves are stooges sent to discredit the organisation they claim to represent
 

Balance

Senior Member.
MMM was not an exclusive and pure non-violent anonymous event. There were all sorts, including black bloc, anarchists, angry students, drunk and drug addicts and passers-by, to name a few joining in the "fun".

And anyone who knows anything about anonymous, would know the true anonymii would simply publish concrete proof (doxing) the culprit was a cop. Anything less is/are a pale imitation in my book.

p.s. Although anecdotal, I can say with confidence that many london and uk 'activists' that were either at MMM or know others that were, also reject this consipracy theory because it breeds paranoia and harms their cause.
 
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eon_flux

New Member
Are we meant to take your responses as speaking officially on behalf of anonymous?
I think that is what is happening here. Is the 'Anonymous spokesperson' in the US, I wonder?

The use of the word 'Auto', the dash in the registration number in the meme, and these people (this person) mentioning 'Mom' suggests they are far removed from any action at MMM in London, and simply trying to stir it up a little.

While mentioning brains, it would help to be grammatically correct, as in 'ridden horses' and 'sheeple-ish'. Sorry to be so picky.
 
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mm1145

Member
I think that is what is happening here. Is the 'Anonymous spokesperson' in the US, I wonder?

The use of the word 'Auto', the dash in the registration number in the meme, and these people (this person) mentioning 'Mom' suggests they are far removed from any action at MMM in London, and simply trying to stir it up a little.

While mentioning brains, it would help to be grammatically correct, as in 'ridden horses' and 'sheeple-ish'. Sorry to be so picky.

when I first saw this I did think that the whole "false flag conspiracy" had a US feel to it
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I think that is what is happening here. Is the 'Anonymous spokesperson' in the US, I wonder?

The use of the word 'Auto', the dash in the registration number in the meme, and these people (this person) mentioning 'Mom' suggests they are far removed from any action at MMM in London, and simply trying to stir it up a little.

While mentioning brains, it would help to be grammatically correct, as in 'ridden horses' and 'sheeple-ish'. Sorry to be so picky.
From their Twitter bio, they are in Texas.
 

LouV

Member
why would that be necessary? your own photographic evidence proves the car was drivable in 2012 after the picture of it being toed was taken (you even tried to pass that of as the same day witch would have been worse)
To be fair, this particular claim wasn't by TerlinguaRE but by HiNtZ.
(However, it could illustrate the fact that there a few contradictions amongst the evidence circulating in favor of the False Flag theory. )
 

LouV

Member
I think it's a reference to this on going (and unrelated) situation...
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/pe...ll-220-000-Zafiras-after-cars-burst-into-fire
I am still puzzled by the insistance on the "firetrap". Was TerlinguaRE insinuating that it is impossible that police decide to buy a dangerous car model, that their agents would refuse to ride into it ???
(Just like he seems to insist that if a car had to be towed for whatever reason, it's obviously for irreparable damage ; or that they would never drive 5 years old cars...)
While I can maybe imagine policemen and police unions not being cool with discovering their service cars are faulty, keep in mind that the whole "Zafira firetrap" was revealed circa october 22nd and the recall occured on November 6th.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rt-their-vehicles-spontaneously-a6703936.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business...re-than-200000-zafiras-over-spontaneous-fires
So it would be a bit too early for policemen to decide that nope, they don't want to work with Zafiras anymore. So I see this as purely coincidental.
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
It's a good thing you Brits spell everything wrong. ;) It make these things easier.

Oy! This is how this language is supposed to be!

It is interesting how someone from Texas asserts with such certainty about an event they most likely did not attend, and steadfastly defends a meme which was demonstrably demolished in minutes by careful application of the google machine....

I'm a bit disappointed he has been banned, but understand why he needed to go. It's also probable that he got himself banned to go back to his cohorts and claim he was censored....
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
I am still puzzled by the insistance on the "firetrap". Was TerlinguaRE insinuating that it is impossible that police decide to buy a dangerous car model, that their agents would refuse to ride into it ???
It was misdirection. Vauxhall Zafiras were recalled due to an electrical fault, and all fixed. If they were still dangerous they would have been removed from the road.

Any car is a firetrap if you smash the windows in and push burning paper inside, even James Bond's Aston Martin...
 

eon_flux

New Member
I am still puzzled by the insistance on the "firetrap".
It was misdirection. Vauxhall Zafiras were recalled due to an electrical fault, and all fixed. If they were still dangerous they would have been removed from the road.

Any car is a firetrap if you smash the windows in and push burning paper inside, even James Bond's Aston Martin...
Yes I think it is either meant to be a further 'insult' to the Met, or a reference to the burning of the vehicle.
 
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