Debunked: Cooper/Copper family ghost photo

Rory

Senior Member.
If you don't want to buy it, I'll tell you in a few months after his photos go viral. I think he deserves to make some money off this.
Why will his photos go viral now, if they haven't in the 20 months since he uploaded the 'book'?
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
I was lucky to find the earlier label to the pic from Sept. 2013 and also to find the book. I found it first in iTunes and then in Amazon. Strange indeed it's almost 2 years-old, and quite unknown, but Metabunkers find all available evidence sooner or later.

After deirdre's comments, the book deserves reading to help clear up this mystery (I'm not meaning it will be clear up after reading, only that reading it is a must).

Did anyone notice that author tells about iLLuMiNuTTi.com in preview (link in #66), and there's "Robert Copper" replying there, 2 days before coming to Metabunk? Seemingly, author ignores "Robert Copper" and Metabunk, too.

Anyway, I think the thread isn't debunked at this point.
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
Did anyone notice that author tells about iLLuMiNuTTi.com in preview (link in #66), and there's "Robert Copper" replying there, 2 days before coming to Metabunk?
Not only replying, but replying word for word with the same comment (with slight addition to the one here).

So which link that his older brother sent him was he "floored" by?

You know, it's like I said way back in comment #18: the whole thing really seems like an artist who works with digital collages/montages made the picture, submitted it to a forum in about 2009, waited patiently 7 years before publishing an ebook, and then waited another year to use a false name claiming to be one of the boys in the photo, providing another photo as 'evidence' that he was who he says he was, when really all that proves is that he has more than one photo of the same family.

And why would they do all that?

Well, the reason's obvious, isn't it, when you look at it "upside down"? ;)
 
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kasparovitch

Active Member
I think 7 years too much time for such a plan.

It's likely he started this book not long before "Robert C" first posted in 2015. This might confuse anyone that could be preparing a parallel investigation, perhaps.

The book, as available in preview, is authored by Richard G. Ramsdell and written by Richard Benjamin Cooper in first person. So, the question is:

- Who are these 2 people?
 

Rory

Senior Member.
C'mon, Deirdre, put us out of our misery. Most of that $9 goes to Amazon anyway. And we all know what they use it to fund. ;)
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
I already gave most of $9 to Amazon (plus VAT).

The case is debunked (more precisely metadebunked) to me, but I'm still interested in details.

Now it's up to deirdre's to disclose the case.

@Rory

I already knew about those links and I'm sure Richard G. Ramsdell is a real guy.

But who's Richard Benjamin Cooper? Ramsdell writes like he's Ben.
 
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kasparovitch

Active Member
[...]

If you don't want to buy it, i'll tell you in a few months after his photos go viral. I think he deserves to make some money off this.

Deirdre, I think you don't need to wait so many months, author jumped from #721 to #109 in Amazon best seller rank in just 24 hours, thanks to us (more than 600 positions!).
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Deirdre, I think you don't need to wait so many months, author jumped from #721 to #109 in Amazon best seller rank in just 24 hours, thanks to us (more than 600 positions!).
graphics aren't my strong suit. I have low end graphic card and a tiny computer screen. when I blow things up half of it falls off my screen and I cant figure out how to capture it :)

If people are buying (big IF) let's wait a week or so and see if someone else does the graphics work. I don't really want to comment on the story line as it's a good ghost story as ghost stories go.
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
Now we have a problem, Deirdre.

The best evidence to metadebunk that picture comes from the book and that's protected by copyright.

Maybe you and Mick could help about how the book can be used here without infringement.
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
I agree on small excerpts from the text, and we can use Gardner & Winthrop story here.

I'm not that sure about pictures. The only source of the pictures now is the book.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
I bought the book, I enjoyed it a lot.

So what are everyone's thoughts? Did Richard write the story around the myth/picture, or did he (or maybe Nietzsche Jones) create the picture/myth. It appears they have at least one other photo of the scene (or have created one ;) ).

Ray Von
 

deirdre

Senior Member.

Attachments

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kasparovitch

Active Member
After reading the book, I truly believe Ramsdell (or Cooper) is author of the falling body, and that this is a fraud.

Look at the three negatives provided by author. 1 and 3 are zoomed with same power.

However 2 is zoomed in a lot compared to these.

Also, operator arranges for the angle to be exactly the same in pics 1 and 2 as you can see from nearest table border. When you zoom in a camera, you lose the limits you had before as the image is reduced in area and operator is concentrated in people to be photographed, unless he or she moves the camera so as to keep any limit (like lower left here).

It's absolutely unlikely that operator would zoom in and be that careful about table's border and then zoom out again.

The resolution of the falling body pic in book is better than any pic circulated in the Internet.

I don't know why did he make candles taller instead of just add a flame to them. Anyway, again, he wouldn't match those enlarged candles exactly with the pics circulated in the Internet unless he's the author of both.

At least now, it's clear the black spot on lower right I told about are lady's legs crossed, that's quite clear in "negative" 1.

Do you believe those are really the negatives? This is a minor question, but they don't look so, and I think Ramsdell wouldn't destroy a negative.

So, everything is fabricated to deceive reader and Ramsdell couldn't do that if he didn't have all material needed to make the falling body. Apart from that, Ramsdell has enough expertise to do that, as one can check from his curriculum in Internet.

Ramsdell can challenge this if he can show a picture of the film strip containing the negatives.

Is Ramsdell Robert Copper? Why does Ramsdell assume he's Richard Benjamin Cooper in book without a reasonable explanation?

[I won't post book's pics here not no infringe any copyright. But I can comment the book for readers, and people are free to discuss it].
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I don't know why did he make candles taller instead of just add a flame to them
I think maybe the candles got stretched by accident. it's possible he stretched the body section to help make the body less recognizable and the candles just got caught up in the stretch. The shadow of the candles match the other pictures in relation to the candles.

Of course if he stretched the body.. something I didn't think of.. then the brooch/necklace could be a simple button.
Untitled.jpg

*this is not a photo of the ghost.. this is a movie screen grab of Cyd Charisse in "Dancing in the Dark" with Fred Astaire.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The three photos are all edited version of the same photo.

Here's a bit of the first two:

[compare]Metabunk 2018-03-13 08-22-48.jpgMetabunk 2018-03-13 08-23-58.jpg
[compare]
Notice:
A) The candles
B) The woman's head moving but here body does not.

The third photo has been distorted to make it look like it was shot from another angle, but is actually the same photo. The distortion is linear.[/compare][/compare]
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
The three photos are all edited version of the same photo.
oh snap. you're right. I finally figured out how to enlarge photos on my tablet. the littlest boys hands don't change at all.. which, is impossible when photographing a 2 year old if you're spending time to zoom in and out
. :)

I did notice grandmas shoulder was out of whack in the first one.
shoulder.JPG

and his "negative strip" ping isn't straight. its a different color than the top and bottom borders.. and its thinner up top. Plus there are no negative tabs. film strips have tabs/tooth holes at the same place top and bottom.
upload_2018-3-13_12-17-12.png
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
When you zoom in a camera, you lose the limits you had before as the image is reduced in area and operator is concentrated in people to be photographed, unless he or she moves the camera so as to keep any limit (like lower left here).

It's absolutely unlikely that operator would zoom in and be that careful about table's border and then zoom out again
adding photo of what you are talking about. For a camera to zoom in to make mom bigger, the table would have been cut off.
pl.JPG
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The third photo has been distorted (using the "distort" transform in Photoshop which lets you move the corners around, stretching the image) but you can just adjust it back and see it's the same photo with similar edits to the heads and faces.

cooper-copper-loop.gif

But it looks like whoever did this had a more original version, as there's more detail in the first image than in the modified "ghost" image.
 
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kasparovitch

Active Member
That's great, indeed all 3 pictures might be editions of same photo, especially 1 and 2, except that left lady has face more hidden, and in pic 3, both have mouth shut. Nothing difficult.

Of course, he should have a better quality pics, but he wouldn't show them up. Anyway, having the falling body picture in better quality than anyone circulated over Internet proves the guy is behind the source.
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
I think everything about the falling body is metadebunked now.

No need to talk about other fantasies in his book, like Gardner & Winthrop firm that rent his forebear a safe in 1917 that he could access a few years ago, and he faked a receipt and such firm neither exists nor ever existed in Boston.

Even font used in letterhead for "Gardner & Winthrop Lawyers at Law" looks too modern for 1917. One could debunk that here, but that seems excessive, as the book is a full collection of fantasies.

Maybe Robert Copper, or Richard Benjamin Cooper, or Richard G. Ramsdell, or even Nietzsche will some day show up here and tell us something.
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
Yes, deirdre, fiction would be only the excuse for Ramsdell, were it not for the title of the book. That clearly aims deceiving readers, not amusing them, like fiction writers do.
 
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JesseCuster

Active Member
I bought the Kindle book out of curiosity based upon reading this thread. I skimmed through it, and spent some time reading the chapter about the negatives. At first I thought it was a true story, or something genuinely trying to be passed off as a true story, but some things made it lose authenticity. The "Find It" search engine is clearly one of those madey-uppy search engines, the kind you see in movies and TV when someone doesn't want to get permission to use Google.

And why not post photos of the notebooks and diaries he was posting excerpts from? Too much work to fabricate those I imagine.

I was also Googling some of the stuff he was saying about the Mayflower, the Pilgrims, etc. Humility Cooper was a real person, but wasn't hanged for being a witch. Apparently she returned to England. And the excerpt from John Winthrop's

Interesting idea for a ghost story, but not very well executed in my opinion. Too jokey and casually written.

The text is definitely in need of some proof-reading I have to say. At leas the actual downloaded book is better formatted than what's up on Amazon's webpage via the "Look inside" option, which is a hot mess of a book layout. Something went wrong I'd imagine with converting it for web use.

It could definitely do with some proof-reading, or perhaps that's meant to add to the look and feel of it being a true story written by an amateur...

Link at end of book to author's website is throwing up a 404 error.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Humility Cooper was a real person, but wasn't hanged for being a witch. Apparently she returned to England. And the excerpt from John Winthrop's
the end of your sentence disappeared (must be supernatural!!)

yea. he gives us the source for the Humility story... but word for word the source is for Margaret Jones.
humility.JPG
humility2.JPG


I think it's more of a Fiji Mermaid type thing. An obvious hoax, people still enjoy despite the obviousness.
 

kasparovitch

Active Member
As I said before pictures in the book are better quality than those circulating over Internet.

This can be clearly compared here. Book pic on the left [location 457], Net pic on the right.

upload_2018-3-20_22-4-48.png

The 3 pics from the book are worked out from a single one, as found by Mick's powerful deduction (and clearly demonstrated by him at #104), something that really escaped to me.

However, that book is a fictional work narrated by Richard Benjamin Cooper in first person. Author might be using Net pictures to fabricate the negatives and the three pictures.

The best evidence that author isn't using pics circulated over the Internet and that he's got the source picture is it's better quality as shown here, unless someone can find such a better quality pic in Internet released before 06-20-2016.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Interesting. When I checked in with this a few weeks ago he didn't seem to have had much activity on there for a few years. I messaged him but got no reply. And when I looked again his profile has been deleted.
probably just trying to protect his family members from being harassed. unfortunately that's what happens in this age of "everything is my business internet mentality"
 
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