Debunked: Chemtrails and Hopi prophecy: Cobweb built around the earth

Gundersen

Senior Member.
I came across the following quote a few time in various places:
Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky.
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The quote is often accompanied with the following image:

Source: http://talesfromtheconspiratum.com/...ll-be-cobwebs-spun-back-and-forth-in-the-sky/

The times I have seen the quote / image it has always been in relation to the chemtrail theory.
I was curious about this quote, even though I do not personally myself put much value in prophecies. I know that a lot of believers apparently think quotes like the above has great significance.

I did a quick google search and found a few pages which wrote the following:

Source: http://www.ahastories.com/hopiprophecy.html
THE WARNING: Cobwebs will crisscross the skies.THE FULFILLMENT: These are the contrails of planes and jets.
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Source: http://www.angelfire.com/music2/fullcircle/PropheciesStudy.html
Some markers and signs: Before the time of the great Purification, they will make metal roads for iron horses and hang metal ropes in the air. (pre-Colombian Hopi prophecy) First they will bring back pieces of the Moon which will upset the balance and unleash disastrous forces. (ibidem) Near the day of the Great Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky through which 'people will walk' . (ibidem) The Purification will begin shortly after humans build a great house in the sky (MIR and/ or new European/US space station?). By then there will be fires everywhere and greedy, selfish, power-mad leaders, internal wars. (ibidem)
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After spending some time google various versions of the quote, I came close to what I thought could be a possible source.
Source: http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi2.html
NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN (HOPI) PROPHECIES

Talk Given by Lee Brown,
1986 Continental Indigenous Council,
Tanana Valley Fairgrounds,
Fairbanks, Alaska
...
So they knew things would happen. Things would speed up a little bit. There would be a cobweb built around the earth, and people would talk across this cobweb. When this talking cobweb, the telephone, was built around the earth, a sign of life would appear in the east, but it would tilt and bring death. It would come with the sun. But the sun itself would rise one day not in the east but in the west. So the elders said when you see the sun rising in the east and you see the sign of life reversed and tilted in the east, you know that the Great Death is to come upon the earth, and now the Great Spirit will grab the earth again in His hand and shake it and this shaking will be worse than the first. So the sign of life reversed and tilted, we call that the Swastika, and the rising sun in the east was the rising sun of Japan. These two symbols are carved in stone in Arizona. When the elders saw these two flags, these were the signs that the earth was to be shaken again.
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The above-mentioned speech from 1986 is on youtube:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

So, judging from this, the cobweb is a metaphor for the telephone. Hereafter he talks about WW2, it does not seem like anything about Judgement Day, Ragnarok, Armageddon or the Apocalypse is mentioned anywhere, same goes for contrails or airplanes.

The only earlier version of the quote I have been able to find is from the movie Koyaanisqatsi (1982).
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi
In the score by Philip Glass, the word "Koyaanisqatsi" is chanted at the beginning and end of the film in an "otherworldly"[26] dark, sepulchral basso profondo by singer Albert de Ruiter over a solemn, four-bar organ-passacaglia bassline. Three Hopi prophecies sung by a choral ensemble during the latter part of the "Prophecies" movement are translated just prior to the end credits:

  • "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
  • "Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
  • "A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
At the end of the film, the movie credits for inspiration Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich, David Monongye, Guy Debord and Leopold Kohr. Moreover, amongst the consultants to the director are listed such names as Jeffrey Lew, T.A. Price, Belle Carpenter, Langdon Winner,Cybelle Carpenter and Barbara Pecarich.
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I have not been able to find anything about where the filmmaker got his quotes from, unfortunately.

Warning: Subjective analysis
As mentioned, I have not been able to find any sources which shows the true origin of the prophecy. Nothing except modern books on the apocolypse showed up in Google Books, I am however not that experienced in using Google Books to find sources. The earliest entries I have found was a speech by Lee Brown in 1986 and the movie Koyaanisqatsi from 1982.

Based on what is available, I am highly doubting the quote to of ancient origin. I expect the quote to be from the early to mid 1900s, presumable during or after WW2. I think that the quote is less of an prophecy and more likely to be a story of WW2 told during or after. It is, however, also possible it is based on an ancient prophecy, but strongly altered to fit the scenario.

Does anybody know more about this quote?
 

Gundersen

Senior Member.
Ps. I was not sure whether what I found was enough for me to name the threat "Debunked:", I will let Mr. West or another admin be the judge of that.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Does anybody know more about this quote?
I dont know about the quote per se. But no mention of cobwebs or such by Dan Katchongva, the late Sun Clan leader of Hotevilla.



Dan Katchongva, the late Sun Clan leader of Hotevilla,
....

In a talk recorded on January 29, 1970,
.....

In addition to the prophecies fulfilled during his lifetime, Dan was told by his father that he would live to see the beginning of the final event of this era, the Great Day of Purification.



THE FORCES OF PURIFICATION

.....

We will have three people standing behind us, ready to fulfill our prophecies when we get into hopeless difficulties: The Meha Symbol (which refers to a plant that has a long root, milky sap, grows back when cut off, and has a flower shaped like a swastika, symbolizing the four great forces of nature in motion), the Sun Symbol, and the Red Symbol. Bahanna’s intrusion into the Hopi way of life will set the Meha Symbol in motion, so that certain people will work for the four great forces of nature (the four directions, the controlling forces, the original force) which will rock the world into war. When this happens we will know that our prophecies are coming true. We will gather strength and stand firm.

This great movement will fall, but because its subsistence is milk, and because it is controlled by the four forces of nature, it will rise again to put the world in motion, creating another war, in which both the Meha and the Sun Symbol will be at work. Then it will rest in order to rise a third time. Our prophecy foretells that the third event will be the decisive one. Our road plan foretells the outcome.

......

This third event will depend upon the Red Symbol, which will take command, setting the four forces of nature (Meha) in motion for the benefit of the Sun. When he sets these forces in motion the whole world will shake and turn red and turn against the people who are hindering the Hopi cultural life. To all these people Purification Day will come.



Humble people will run to him in search of a new world, and the equality that has been denied them. He will come unmercifully. His people will cover the Earth like red ants. We must not go outside to watch. We must stay in our houses. He will come and gather the wicked people who are hindering the red people who were here first. He will recognize by his way of life, or by his head (the special Hopi haircut), or by the shape of his village and his dwellings. He is the only one who will purify us.

The Purifier, commanded by the Red Symbol, with the help of the Sun and the Meha, will weed out the wicked who have disturbed the way of life of the Hopi, the true way of life on Earth. The wicked will be beheaded and will speak no more. This will be the Purification for all righteous people, the Earth, and all living things on the Earth. The ills of the Earth will be cured. Mother Earth will bloom again and all people will unite into peace and harmony for a long time to come.


But if this does not materialize, the Hopi traditional identity will vanish due to pollution from Bahanna


.....

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_leyenda_hopi1.htm
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Dan Katchongva (January 1, 1860 (Old Oraibi) - February 22, 1972 (Hotevilla)) was a Hopi Native American traditional leader. Son of Yukiuma, keeper of the Fire Clan tablets, who founded Hotevilla in 1906. He is one of four Hopis (including Thomas Banyacya, David Monongye, and Dan Evehema) who decided or were appointed to reveal Hopi traditional wisdom and teachings, including the Hopi prophecies for the future, to the general public in 1946, after the use of the first two nuclear weapons on Japan. Katchongva was the eldest of the group of four knowledgeable Hopis,
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there is mention of cobwebs by White Feather, a Hopi of the ancient Bear Clan. but they are across the land, not in sky.
“This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider’s web.”
....
“These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands — with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. Many of my people, understanding the prophecies, shall be safe. Those who stay and live in the places of my people also shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon — very soon afterward — Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in their hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World.

http://www.iawwai.com/NorthAmericanProphecies.html
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So we have 2 Native Americans saying the web will be around the land. And one who doesnt mention them at all.
I'm marking this as debunked unless the chemtrailists can produce some evidence as to the source of their quote. And movies dont count.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
The only earlier version of the quote I have been able to find is from the movie Koyaanisqatsi (1982).
In 1972, Monongye and three other Hopi elders participated in the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment.[1] Monongye was a co-author of Techqua Ikachi, the traditional Hopi newsletters produced from 1975 to 1986. Monongye inspired Godfrey Reggio's 1982 film, Koyaanisqatsi: Life Out of Balance.[4] Monongye was vocal about problems generated by coal-mining on Hopi land.[5]
Content from External Source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Monongye

I'm going through Techqua Ikachi a bit to see if there is any mention of cobwebs. Let me know if you find anything that would explain the movie chant.


add: regarding the 3 events-from the newletter:
Hopi leaders now believe the first two events were the first and second world ward and the "gourd full of ashes" in the atomic bomb. After the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki teachings formerly kept secret were compared and released to the world. The details presented here are part of those teachings. http://www.jnanadana.org/hopi/issue_37.html
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deirdre

Senior Member.
this link is saying its from this book, 1963 viking press.? no preview available, since you brought it up @Gundersen i'll let you go to the library and read the book :) see if its in there and the context
bold mine:

according to the Hopis, this is the Fourth World. there were seven
worlds created at the beginning. the first three have been destroyed
because each time, the humans inhabiting them had diverged too far
from their original sacred path. their prophecies (see "Book of the
Hopi" by Frank Waters) speak of the possibility of such a destruction
of the Fourth World (in the forms of uranium mining, existence of
powerlines
, and the atomic bomb):

If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster.

Near the Day of Purification, there will be cobwebs
spun back and forth in the sky.

A container of ashes might one day be thrown
from the sky, which could burn the land
and boil the oceans.

http://ratical.org/ratville/native/hopielders.txt
Content from External Source
1969.JPG
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
ok i might have found Frank Waters source. Or at least confirmed One of his contributers seems to concur.
Frank Lansa: acknowledgements from his book http://www67.homepage.villanova.edu/barbara.wall/phi4400docs/Waters_Intro.pdf
lansa.JPG

1971 interview
“The prophecy says that there will come a time of much destruction,” says John Lansa. “This is the time. The prophecy says there will be paths in the sky. The paths are airplanes. There will be cobwebs in the air. These are the power lines. Great ashes will be dumped on cities and there will be destruction. These are the atom bombs America dropped on Hiroshima. The prophecy says men will travel to the moon and stars and this will cause disruption. It is bad that spacemen brought things back from the moon. That is very bad.”
.....
Driving west from Oraibi, along a highway flooded by power lines, one is struck by a sense of irony and tragedy. A small but proud people, with the oldest intact culture in the United States, is being overrun — not by force of arms, not by drought or disease, not by the blandishments of schoolteachers or priests, but by white America’s insatiable appetite for electric toothbrushes and air-conditioned buildings whose windows are permanently sealed.



http://peter-barnes.org/article/bad-day-at-black-mesa/
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JRBids

Senior Member.
It is amazing how prophecies can say there will be "paths" in the sky (which you can shoehorn "planes" into) but the prophecy can't say "they will be things carrying people flying in the sky". And "cobwebs" mean power lines, not "there will be threads giving light to houses" or whatever. I understand the people who are giving these prophecies don't understand what they are supposedly passing on, but whatever is giving them these visions/words can certainly be more specific if they are as magical as claimed.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It is amazing how prophecies can say there will be "paths" in the sky
obviously i'm not a hopi expert (at all!), but so far that interview is the ONLY instance i have found so far of ANYONE mentioning "paths in the sky". Other than [the path of the sun].
I'm curious if it is in the "Book of Hopi" 1963 or if that was just an "add on" my Lansa (1971).

Either way, the 'gourd of ash' is being interpreted by Hopi as far back as possibly 1963 (have to read the book), but certainly by Lansa in 1971. And the ash gourd (atomic bombs) comes AFTER the [cobwebs across the sky] warning. And since chemmies insist there were no contrails even back in the 80's... debunked. :)


I'm sure Nostradamus predicted "chemtrails" too somewhere in his prophecies, he [allegedly] predicted everything else! ;)
 

Graham2001

Active Member
Jason Colavito had a look into Hopi Prophecy his conclusion is below, with a link to the full article which is well worth reading:

Armin Geertz studied Hopi prophecy (most notably in 1994’s The Invention of Prophecy) and determined that no Hopi prophecy could be traced back before the event which it describes; in fact the Hopi have continuously recreated their prophecies to justify current conditions. For example, when the Hopi split around 1900, they created a “prophecy” to support the split, and new prophecies were added to reflect new technologies. The “spider web” analogy for telephone wires came about only after the wires went up. The most famous ex post facto “prophecy” is the “gourd full of ashes” that supposedly represented the destructive power of the atomic bomb. The “gourd” prophecy wasn’t invented until 1956 (though some oral traditions claim 1948), long after the bomb it supposedly predicted.

Thus, in short, the Hopi prophecies tell us much about the concerns of the people who uttered them, but very little about the future. Oh, and they also tell us that alternative writers will repeat anything they hear.
Content from External Source
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/did-the-hopi-predict-the-end-of-the-world
 

ROSALINE

New Member
In the score by Philip Glass, the word "Koyaanisqatsi" is chanted at the beginning and end of the film in an "otherworldly"[26] dark, sepulchral basso profondo by singer Albert de Ruiter over a solemn, four-bar organ-passacaglia bassline. Three Hopi prophecies sung by a choral ensemble during the latter part of the "Prophecies" movement are translated just prior to the end credits:

  • "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
  • "Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
  • "A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."

Has anyone considered that the above statement "A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans" could be referring to the aluminum and barium being sprayed almost daily worldwide to curb climate rise?

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/03/11/cloud-seeding-helps-bring-more-rain-from-fridays-storm/
IMG_8588.jpeg

AKA "gourd of ash" " Great ashes will be dumped on cities and there will be destruction."
 
Last edited by a moderator:

deirdre

Senior Member.
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans" could be referring to the aluminum and barium being sprayed almost daily worldwide to curb climate rise?

according to The Book of Hopi (see post #5) it is the atomic bomb.


their prophecies (see "Book of the
Hopi" by Frank Waters) speak of the possibility of such a destruction
of the Fourth World (in the forms of uranium mining,
existence of powerlines
, and the atomic bomb):

If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster.

Near the Day of Purification, there will be cobwebs
spun back and forth in the sky.

A container of ashes might one day be thrown
from the sky, which could burn the land
and boil the oceans.


http://ratical.org/ratville/native/hopielders.txt

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