Debunked: Boston Marathon victims: "crisis actors"

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Yes I am interested in finding out for sure what happened I am just taking a skeptical position I'm not gonna just change my opinion because someone on the internet told me they were there but Can you tell me exactly what you saw description of the victims and what injuries they had, how far away you were, what side of the street, if police were stopping people from getting any closer if you want to convince people of your story you need to be detailed where you near ring road at any point? Thanks for the information though
What IS your opinion? Do you HAVE an opinion of what happened? Or are you just here to quibble and argue with eyewitnesses because they're not saying what you want them to say?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not going to because many people out there have already shown inconsistencies that may be explained away

If they can be explained, then they are not inconsistencies.

Unless you are actually going to discuss specific claims of evidence, please do not post.
 

JDubyah

Member
Mick, the link to the FB page of Bauman in the OP has gone dead. Perhaps too many people started to contact the guy, and he took the FB page down.
 

Redwood

Active Member
Yes I am interested in finding out for sure what happened I am just taking a skeptical position I'm not gonna just change my opinion because someone on the internet told me they were there but Can you tell me exactly what you saw description of the victims and what injuries they had, how far away you were, what side of the street, if police were stopping people from getting any closer if you want to convince people of your story you need to be detailed where you near ring road at any point? Thanks for the information though

If any of the deaths or injuries are real, then all of them are real. The "Official Story" is that this little girl had her leg blown off, her brother was killed, and her mother was gravely injured. Her name is Jane Richard.

The right half of the photo shows her brother and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.


If you are serious about doubting if this is true, it should be no problem for you to find her schooolmates and ask them is she really did have two legs prior to Patriot's Day 2013 and really did have a brother. Of course, when they answer in the affirmative, to a conspiracist this merely proves that her schoolmates are part of the conspiracy, too.
 

ColtCabana

Senior Member
Yes I am interested in finding out for sure what happened I am just taking a skeptical position I'm not gonna just change my opinion because someone on the internet told me they were there but Can you tell me exactly what you saw description of the victims and what injuries they had, how far away you were, what side of the street, if police were stopping people from getting any closer if you want to convince people of your story you need to be detailed where you near ring road at any point? Thanks for the information though

Again, you may start a separate thread about that and ask me anything you wish. This thread is about crisis actors and not pertinent to the specific information you are asking me to provide.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
also the burden of proof is on you I have made no claims to anything simply speculation of the official story you have made a claim that you were there and that should be backed up thanks for your responses though
Rilokilee, you've made nine posts, but you still haven't really said anything.
Everyone here already believes in questioning things. But to say that it's likely that well-documented events
are actually significantly different than what the known evidence supports, DOES move the burden to you.

On one hand you seem to realize that the Nayirah testimony definitely has no meaningful, plausible
counterpart in the Boston tragedy...and yet you introduce it as evidence to...uh...uh...well, I'm not sure.
There is no epistemological reason to pretend that hypothetical explanations are as likely as obvious ones.
 
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JRBids

Senior Member.
There are many compelling arguments that have been made by others analyzing footage there are also compelling arguments against these too. I am not going to go over them BUT in holistic fashion it is a likely occurence and has been proven over and over again that aspects of news coverage are staged or manipulated take for example the pulling down of the Saddam statue or the story of Jessica Lynch (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/15/iraq.usa2) I am simply arguing of the potential for an event to be staged and so I would rather take a skeptical position if I wasn't a witness of the event. There is no subjectivity in injuries of a bomb blast there is subjectivity in how we perceive footage /evidence of these injuries. One person who has expertise in medicine might have one opinion another with expertise in prosthetics another Unless you were the doctor or paramedic of the victims that there is no way to verify or falsify the claims we are all basing our judgements on secondary data and so there is a level of subjectivity. My personal criticism of the news is that with all these events they have focused on the emotional at the expense of more critical analysis, how victimhood has become about celebrity, how people take it as a form of information when it is produced as entertainment and how alternative views are ridiculed and all lumped together under the contested and umbrella term "conspiracy theories". All truth is subjective because we use language to convey it and language is essentially metaphor (look into cognitive linguistics). The event happened but our perceptions are what is subjective so yes all questions of our perceptions are valid and all our conclusions can only be theoretical because we weren't there. The event could have been staged, it could have really happened or the reality might lie somewhere in the middle i don't know and neither do you. Also the epistemological argument is so important to the veracity of truth because it concerns knowledge and how we arrive at it.
I believe crisis actors are used to stage events because they have been used in the past (eg. Nariyah Testimony- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)) I know that for some time there has been a marriage between hollywood and the military and historically it is quite clear that those in power use whatever resources are available to them to control the masses before it was more physical force now a much subtler psychological brainwashing.


What is this new propensity for needing to see something with one's own eyes or, because something COULD happen, it did. You've still offered no substance. Now you're gish galloping. While any event could have happened, could not have happened, or somewhere in the middle, in this case all the evidence points directly to IT DID HAPPEN.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Before all this internet conspiracy everything is a false flag attack started off, people understood that people don't always recall events correctly and that people's eyewitness accounts may be skewed by their own beliefs and perspective.
Police are always very suspicious if eyewitness accounts match too closely.

These days, people with a particular political persuasion who are distrustful of the mainstream media look at every event with a critical eye, looking for things that apparently are "strange" or "don't make sense" which they can then claim are proof of some kind of staged event.
as has already been posted, if ANY of the injuries are real, then they all have to be. There is no other way round it.
also if you want to accuse people of somehow being made up with fake injuries, why not do a little ACTUAL RESEARCH (i.e not on conspiracy sites) and look at how long it actually takes to apply the make up and make it look real.
 

Rilokilee

New Member
What IS your opinion? Do you HAVE an opinion of what happened? Or are you just here to quibble and argue with eyewitnesses because they're not saying what you want them to say?
Seriously? I am asking for more details on the eye witness I don't need to have a clear opinion cause I am trying to gather evidence to form one from all sides now coltcobana said that they were on this site to provide eye witness accounts and all i have asked for is more information but I thank them for getting back to me and I will ask these questions in a separate thread.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Seriously? I am asking for more details on the eye witness I don't need to have a clear opinion cause I am trying to gather evidence to form one from all sides now coltcobana said that they were on this site to provide eye witness accounts and all i have asked for is more information but I thank them for getting back to me and I will ask these questions in a separate thread.

Before you do that, please review the posting guidelines.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/
 

Rilokilee

New Member
What is this new propensity for needing to see something with one's own eyes or, because something COULD happen, it did. You've still offered no substance. Now you're gish galloping. While any event could have happened, could not have happened, or somewhere in the middle, in this case all the evidence points directly to IT DID HAPPEN.

I study ANthropology and in this subject the difference between primary data (being there) and secondary (armchair anthropology) is an important distinction this is true to most of science where you don't rely on hearsay but repeat tests and experiements to validate their veracity or test the internal logic of arguements there is nothing wrong with being open minded you should try it sometime
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
NO worries im leaving and I will be writing about this site and its bully tactics All i was trying to do was understand the other side of the story that wasn't the conspiracy perspective
Not being taken seriously for failing to say anything of value...is not really bullying...


p.s. I also studied anthro in college...lots and lots of things, 99.99999% that I didn't personally witness. ;)
 

Rilokilee

New Member
@Rilokilee I came here a Boston conspiracy theorist, but through analysing claims with these folk, I have changed my mind. But if you don't post a claim you are merely a chicken #### fool.

Claim or GTFO.
Not being taken seriously for failing to say anything of value...is not really bullying...


p.s. I also studied anthro in college...lots and lots of things, 99.99999% that I didn't personally witness. ;)
Then you should know that fieldwork is our main source of data collection the theoretical is secondary but in college you probable didn't do any fieldwork I haven't found anyone on here who is able to have an intellectual discussion and @Mick West is calling someone a chicken #### fool allowed in your posting guidelines? i think that does qualify as bullying whether or not someone has something of value to say is a matter of opinion your reactions are aggressive if you dont think its important why comment in the first place?
 

qed

Senior Member
@Rilokilee You are not presenting any claim. So no one can rationally argue with you.

You say Boston may be a conspiracy. No, that is false, because there is absolutely no evidence of this. If you have evidence, please show us. If it holds water, you will certainly change my mind.

I have read all the possible claims out there because I used to believe this ####. But they do not hold up when analysed. If you have one that I may have missed, please show it.

But you come here and refuse to present evidence. That is just foolish. Imagine going to a science forum and saying quantum mechanics may be false, but then refusing to back up your claim with any evidence. The forum will shout at you, because you are being a fool and wasting the forum's time.

Check out all the threads where we have argued about Boston before.

If you have something new to say then say it. Else forget about Boston being a conspiracy of actors. It wasn't.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
...whether or not someone has something of value to say is a matter of opinion your reactions are aggressive if you dont think its important why comment in the first place?
Because you put up 9 straight empty posts in a day. Just letting you know that if you don't eventually
bring something to the table, folks here will soon tire of that "well, isn't it possible that...?" undergrad/youtube stuff...
 

Rilokilee

New Member
@Rilokilee You are not presenting any claim. So no one can rationally argue with you.

You say Boston may be a conspiracy. No, that is false, because there is absolutely no evidence of this. If you have evidence, please show us. If it holds water, you will certainly change my mind.

I have read all the possible claims out there because I used to believe this ####. But they do not hold up when analysed. If you have one that I may have missed, please show it.

But you come here and refuse to present evidence. That is just foolish. Imagine going to a science forum and saying quantum mechanics may be false, but then refusing to back up your claim with any evidence. The forum will shout at you, because you are being a fool and wasting the forum's time.

Check out all the threads where we have argued about Boston before.

If you have something new to say then say it. Else forge
2d8721ea73855717314af5e424a317de_6vb0.png

Okay this is one of the injured at the Boston bombing I think it is fake because of the way the skin folds what do you think?
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I think it's real and offensive to post that statement.
 

qed

Senior Member
I think it's real and offensive to post that statement.
Please don't do that. That is not a scientific response.
 

Rilokilee

New Member
Well it isn't real this is a crisis actor at a drill but it shows that it is difficult to tell the difference between real and fake injuries and unless you are the person that actually treated the patient you cannot know I think even medical professionals would have trouble telling the difference without examining a wound personally

2d8721ea73855717314af5e424a317de_6vb0.jpg
 

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Rilokilee

New Member
Well it isn't real this is a crisis actor at a drill but it shows that it is difficult to tell the difference between real and fake injuries and unless you are the person that actually treated the patient you cannot know I think even medical professionals would have trouble telling the difference without examining a wound personally
There is also a video which i can find a bit later where doctors/medical staff where told by police to bypass normal triage procedures and not clean the wounds because of bomb patterns but send boston bombing patients straight into surgery
 
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Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Well it isn't real this is a crisis actor at a drill but it shows that it is difficult to tell the difference between real and fake injuries and unless you are the person that actually treated the patient you cannot know I think even medical professionals would have trouble telling the difference without examining a wound personally
Do you have any evidence? Don't just post pictures and say it could be.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Well it isn't real this is a crisis actor at a drill but it shows that it is difficult to tell the difference between real and fake injuries and unless you are the person that actually treated the patient you cannot know I think even medical professionals would have trouble telling the difference without examining a wound personally
no it isn't. his foot is right there. you really need to read the posting guidelines.
 
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Rilokilee

New Member
Do you have any evidence? Don't just post pictures and say it could be.
What are you talking about? I just demonstrated how hard it is to tell whether a wound is real or faked to someone who is 100% sure that the injuries where real I had to deceive in order to prove my point which has been proven
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
There is also a video which i can find a bit later where doctors/medical staff where told by police to bypass normal triage procedures and not clean the wounds because of bomb patterns but send boston bombing patients straight into surgery

Provide a link or this will be deleted.
 

Rilokilee

New Member
I will provide a link but cannot do it now will do it tomorrow as I have to leave the house its from a news clip please don't delete I have the clip but will have to find it within a longer video
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
What are you talking about? I just demonstrated how hard it is to tell whether a wound is real or faked to someone who is 100% sure that the injuries where real I had to deceive in order to prove my point which has been proven
You have been asked to provide evidence to support your claims. This is not a site to talk about what ifs but to remove bunk.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
If you are going to post a video to back up a claim you need to quote exactly what is said in it.

This thread is diverging too much from the original post. New topics in new threads please. Please focus on specific individual claims of evidence.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I study ANthropology and in this subject the difference between primary data (being there) and secondary (armchair anthropology) is an important distinction this is true to most of science where you don't rely on hearsay but repeat tests and experiements to validate their veracity or test the internal logic of arguements there is nothing wrong with being open minded you should try it sometime

Armchair anthropology? People who were there were interviewed. It was filmed.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
NO worries im leaving and I will be writing about this site and its bully tactics All i was trying to do was understand the other side of the story that wasn't the conspiracy perspective

Asking what you believe is bullying? Why not confront us here? You obviously DOUBT the "official story" or you would not be asking the questions you are.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
2d8721ea73855717314af5e424a317de_6vb0.png

Okay this is one of the injured at the Boston bombing I think it is fake because of the way the skin folds what do you think?
So you lied about a picture, hoping to trick people...
because your theory is that a single low-res image, out of context
can mis-lead gullible CT fans into believing that some
genuine victims are mysterious fakes? Bravo!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've deleted some off topic posts about a Facebook page seeming weird to someone.

This thread does not need a open ended continuation. Anything else on this topic should strictly follow the posting guidelines.
 
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