Debunk this [Chaff]

[CalPolyFan]

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[Mick West]

Debunk what? It's a video about chaff. Not secret (as you can see from the video), and does not leave long white lines in the sky.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

The video first shows radar images which look like and are identified by the meteorologist as chaff. The meteorologist erred however, when she said that chaff was "sprayed". Chaff is ejected from military airplanes by one or more "bursts". It is a solid material and is either ejected mechanically or usinga small explosive "pyrotechnic" device. While the amount of chaff is small, the material is able to spread downwind from the point of release and form a line in the direction and speed of windflow, not at the speed of jet aircraft.

Here is a more detailed description of chaff:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/chaff.htm

Tim Svetz, who goes by the name of Syd Stevens, created the first segment of video. You should already be aware that the contrails you show in later footage DOES NOT SHOW UP ON RADAR.

No chemtrail websites show the persistent contrails they call "chemtrails" on radar, because they DON'T show up on radar.

Let me repeat that, in other words.

Chaff DOES show up on radar, but persistent contrails people are calling "chemtrails" DON'T show up on radar.

If you want to speak about chaff, go right ahead.

But don't even try to show a chaff release on radar and try to say that persistent contrails leave the same radar signature, because they don't.

I think you knew that, and are deliberately trying to spread some bunk. I see you have made a number of your own videos showing persistent contrails,
but you didn't show any weather radar chaff signatures from those days, did you?

What you are trying to spread is bunk. You have been debunked. I invite you to factually or logically debate the issue further.
If you decline to do so, then by default you accept the debunking you deserve.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Ah, I see that below your video you recommend the chemtrails propaganda video by Michael J. Murphy.

I'd bet you took our cue fom WITWATS, because they did exactly the same thing, showing weathermen explaining chaff, while splicing in footage of persistent contrails.

Shame on him, shame on you. Do you people think you can sustain such easily debunkable lies?

If so, you are wrong. I dare you to have the guts michael J. Murphy doesn't.
Come and explain why you did this. Bring it on......

 

[CalPolyFan]

You guys seriously think that chaff is being sprayed over much of the country as a defense against "ground based missiles" that are apparently within US territory?

What about the "chaff" being sprayed over Mexico as well, as illustrated on the radar? Obviously not our airspace, so that doesn't fly. This is an international spraying effort taking place.

Finally- micro particulate pieces of metal aka chaff is not good to breath.. you guys have no problem with the military spraying chaff over populated areas (if that's even what it is, an that is doubtful, they're likely barium and aluminum dumps). No big deal to you guys that our air is getting sprayed on a large scale?

What about this video: Chaff or chemtrails?

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Chaff is the cover story guys.. sorry to break it to you.

Get out your family album, and find the now ubiquitous white lines covering the sky pre 1996... GOOD LUCK!

If you can find a sky that looks like this behind you, your family and dog posing out in front of Mt. Rushmore, I will eat crow:

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But, you won't find anything looking anything like that because our sky wasn't being sprayed like crazy like it is today.. Good luck searching though

 

[TWCobra]

Chaff is being ejected by military aircraft, predominantly fighter aircraft, conducting training missions in dedicated airspace. What you are seeing there in that first video is probably Navy and Marine aircraft operating in training areas off the coast near San Diego. Other chaff reports often come from the Las Vegas, which has the restricted areas associated with the Nellis AFB to the north of it. At Nellis they often run exercises such as Red Flag, which is a full dress rehearsal for large scale air conflict.

There are other training areas off the East Coast. I presume there are often reports from there as well.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

You guys seriously think that chaff is being sprayed over much of the country as a defense against "ground based missiles" that are apparently within US territory?

I doubt that missles are being fired, but possibly they are for testing of new chaff designs and checing to see if old chaff dispensers are still working. The military builds chaff dispensers and puts them on the shelf. They must test a portion periodically to be sure they still operate, and new pilots and ground missle crews must train to maintain their skills.

What about the "chaff" being sprayed over Mexico as well, as illustrated on the radar? Obviously not our airspace, so that doesn't fly. This is an international spraying effort taking place.

The releases are not seen over Mexico. The releases are shown over the ocean, and drifting over Mexico and Socal with the wind.

Finally- micro particulate pieces of metal aka chaff is not good to breath.. you guys have no problem with the military spraying chaff over populated areas (if that's even what it is, an that is doubtful, they're likely barium and aluminum dumps). No big deal to you guys that our air is getting sprayed on a large scale?

The chaff containers are small, and the air they are in is great. There aren't any harmful concentations of chaff being collected.

What about this video: Chaff or chemtrails?

You failed to identify the planes or check weather radar to determine if it was chaff. Why ask the question when you could easily check?
Sorry, but hat video is nothing but a fail.

Chaff is the cover story guys.. sorry to break it to you.

No, chaff is the bunk you have tried to pass off, but you have failed.

Get out your family album, and find the now ubiquitous white lines covering the sky pre 1996... GOOD LUCK!
If you can find a sky that looks like this behind you, your family and dog posing out in front of Mt. Rushmore, I will eat crow:

But, you won't find anything looking anything like that because our sky wasn't being sprayed like crazy like it is today.. Good luck searching though [/QUOTE]
Here is an archive of pre-1995 persistent contrails. Enjoy your crow!

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/487-Pre-1995-Persistent-Contrail-Archive

 

[jvnk08]

You guys seriously think that chaff is being sprayed over much of the country as a defense against "ground based missiles" that are apparently within US territory?*


What about the "chaff" being sprayed over Mexico as well, as illustrated on the radar? Obviously not our airspace, so that doesn't fly. This is an international spraying effort taking place.


......


Get out your family album, and find the now ubiquitous white lines covering the sky pre 1996... GOOD LUCK!


But, you won't find anything looking anything like that because our sky wasn't being sprayed like crazy like it is today.. Good luck searching though

Seems like you don't really understand how often chaff is used. I imagine the only places you're going to see it show up on radar are around military bases, and even then very rarely. Perhaps more often around where they do training for fighter pilots.


Judging from this guy's prior posts, I really don't think he's looked around this site much. Dude, there's a massive sticky thread of pre-1995 contrail photos. Many of them are similar to the video you posted.

 

[scombrid]

You guys seriously think that chaff is being sprayed over much of the country as a defense against "ground based missiles" that are apparently within US territory?

Those white lines you call chemtrails are condensation trails and are not chaff. I see chaff deployments on radar regularly off the SC/NC coasts and occasionally near Tampa and Homestead here in Florida. All are from military training excercises out of nearby bases. None appear as visible white lines as occur behind jet aircraft flying through saturated cold air in the upper troposhere and lower stratosphere. Contrails do not appear on radar. The particles are too small and too diffuse to reflect the radar signal back to the radar. Chaff is particles that are deliberately highly reflective of radar. They will still show on radar even after having spread out enough to be invisible to the naked eye.

 

[scombrid]

There are other training areas off the East Coast. I presume there are often reports from there as well.

Offshore of SC and NC is a good place to watch for chaff. It is interesting to calculate the altitude of the deployment and fall rate using the different tilt angles of the radar available from weather underground. What is really neat is when they deploy the chaff at high altitude and the wind speed and direction changes with height such that the chaff cloud appears to twist as the chaff falls through the different layers. You can also watch the bombing ranges in the desert southwest for chaff. I haven't looked off shore of Va Beach but I would guess that the training grounds offshore of Langley and NAS Oceana would have chaff used in training.

 

[CalPolyFan]

I'm getting conflicting statements from you debunkers.. I guess you guys don't agree huh?

"Chaff is being ejected by military aircraft" "What you are seeing there in that first video is probably Navy and Marine aircraft"

"Those white lines you call chemtrails are condensation trails and are not chaff"

So, which one is it, is it CHAFF or is it CONTRAILS?

Finally, I noticed nobody tried to "debunk" the video of the trails suddenly starting and stopping in the video link I posted above- could you identify what those planes are spraying that suddenly turns on/off? Or are you not really sure?


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"The releases are not seen over Mexico."

Uh, yes they are, if you notice the trail changes course over Mexico, an indication that it is being sprayed over Mexico not over the ocean.

"All are from military training excercises out of nearby bases."

So you admit the military is spraying us, and somehow know with certainty exactly what it is they're spraying- how? They never inform the public what it is.

Nobody answered my question regarding the health risks associated with inhaling chaff into your lungs: Nobody here apparently has an issue with large population centers being dumped with micro particulate chaff? Do you guys not worry about the health effects of the Airspace over large American cities being turned into a military testing ground?

Do you miss seeing perfectly blue skies without white junk all over the place?

Chaff, or "persistent contrail?"

Also, TWCobra, could you please provide proof you are in fact a pilot. It should be fairly simple to do so.

Still waiting on the results of family album time...

 

[Met Watch]

Still waiting on the results of family album time...

Did you completely miss Jay's link to Persistent Contrails Pre-1995? Or did you just ignore it?

 

[Mick West]

Chaff and contrails are two different things.

Chaff is essentially invisible one jettisoned, but shows up on radar. It's made from fiberglass and aluminum
Contrails are visible clouds of ice crystals, they do not show up on radar.

 

[jvnk08]

I'm getting conflicting statements from you debunkers.. I guess you guys don't agree huh?


"Chaff is being ejected by military aircraft" "What you are seeing there in that first video is probably Navy and Marine aircraft"


"Those white lines you call chemtrails are condensation trails and are not chaff"


So, which one is it, is it CHAFF or is it CONTRAILS?


"All are from military training excercises out of nearby bases."


So you admit the military is spraying us, and somehow know with certainty exactly what it is they're spraying- how? They never inform the public what it is.


Nobody answered my question regarding the health risks associated with inhaling chaff into your lungs: Nobody here apparently has an issue with large population centers being dumped with micro particulate chaff? Do you guys not worry about the health effects of the Airspace over large American cities being turned into a military testing ground?

You're ignoring the simple fact that chaff is rarely used... considering we're not at war, the only times it would be used are in training or to test if equipment is still working. Chaff also isn't "sprayed" so much as "violently ejected by propellant".


The white trails you see in the sky are not chaff. They also don't show up on radar. Chaff does, seeing as it's DESIGNED to show up on radar(to fool enemy radar).
As Mick pointed out, after being fired the actual chaff is pretty hard to see with the naked eye from the ground. It consists of tiny strips of metal. If you were close enough, you would probably see nothing more than a glimmer in the air, sort of like metallic confetti.

Do you miss seeing perfectly blue skies without white junk all over the place?

You mean clouds?

Chaff, or "persistent contrail?"

I would say definitely a condensation trail. It's a photo, so, no clue as to persistence. You seem to believe the atmosphere is one homogenous blob, or something along those lines? Do you realize how absolutely vast the atmosphere is? The conditions present at any given point can vary widely in as little as a few hundred feet. Hence, a "gap" in the trail, or two planes flying at what appear to be the same altitude giving off noticeably different trails.

Also, TWCobra, could you please provide proof you are in fact a pilot. It should be fairly simple to do so.

I wouldn't hold your breath - there's a tradeoff in revealing such information. On the one hand, he risks revealing his personal identity online, and on the other hand, if he redacted any information to preserve said identity, you could just as easily say it's faked.

Still waiting on the results of family album time...

Pleasepleaseplease, look at the sticky thread at the top of this very forum. Or, look here: http://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/ Some of them are in the sticky as well.

 

[Mick West]

Nobody answered my question regarding the health risks associated with inhaling chaff into your lungs: Nobody here apparently has an issue with large population centers being dumped with micro particulate chaff? Do you guys not worry about the health effects of the Airspace over large American cities being turned into a military testing ground?

Sure, there's plenty of concern, and discussion, about it. But it seems safe. Harry Reid's office asked for an investigation on it years ago. Here it is:

http://www.gao.gov/products/NSIAD-98-219

 

[Chew]

You guys seriously think that chaff is being sprayed over much of the country as a defense against "ground based missiles" that are apparently within US territory?

It's called "conducting military exercise". Things get used during a military exercise.

I was stationed on a frigate and occasionally we would play with subs in the Hawaiian opereas and whenever they shot a $50,000 practice torpedo at us it was my job to toss overboard three $1500 acoustic decoys. During one exercise I tossed over $18,000 worth of decoys. My frigate had SRBOC (Super-Rapid Blooming Onboard Chaff). The SRBOC launchers were surrounded by a fence with a warning sign that read: "SRBOC may be launched without notice. Stand clear." They are propelled by explosives so when they are launched it sounds just like a cannon. I happened to be walking by one when it was launched. It goes without saying that it scared the beejesus out of me.

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Mick West]

Get out your family album, and find the now ubiquitous white lines covering the sky pre 1996... GOOD LUCK!

If you can find a sky that looks like this behind you, your family and dog posing out in front of Mt. Rushmore, I will eat crow:

But, you won't find anything looking anything like that because our sky wasn't being sprayed like crazy like it is today.. Good luck searching though

How about this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41722301@N05/6194020451/in/photostream/

Actually, I don't think it's contrails. But it's actually a type of cloud that many chemtrail believers find suspicious.

There's plenty of photos of contrails in old family albums.

 

[Mick West]

Five minutes looking. 1977.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30159472@N04/5715276757/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30159472@N04/5715841370/in/photostream/

Looks like a bunch of persistent spreading contrails to me.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Also, TWCobra, could you please provide proof you are in fact a pilot. It should be fairly simple to do so.

CalPolyFan, please recprocate at least to the extent which TWCobra has, what is your name and how do you make your living?
Goose=Gander

 

[scombrid]

I'm getting conflicting statements from you debunkers.. I guess you guys don't agree huh?

"Chaff is being ejected by military aircraft" "What you are seeing there in that first video is probably Navy and Marine aircraft"

"Those white lines you call chemtrails are condensation trails and are not chaff"

.

There is no conflict in those statements. Chaff does not make long white lines in the sky and those long white lines are not "visible" to whether radar as is chaff.

 

[Billzilla]

I miss the days of more rational crazy people.

Cal, I too am (was - I am retured now) airline pilot, like TWR is now.
Want to see a video of me doing an arrival into Dubai in a 747?

 

[Jazzy]

Chaff, or "persistent contrail?"

Neither.

It's a fake. A photoshop job. Carefully edited around the telephone wire. The "blue" is a series of vertical "spray" strokes. Look at the area which makes the left side of the "cut", and also immediately beneath the wire on the right side of the "cut".

In reality no contrails cut off in such a manner because they are entrained in the twin vortex wake of the wings which spins as if geared together, and the aircraft which are normally ascending or descending through layers of differing humidity do so very gradually indeed. It simply cannot be that abrupt unless the aircraft is plunging vertically.

Also there is a "pendule" immediately to the left of the "cut". A pendule is a "sylph" formed by ice particles, heavier than their surrounding ice particles, accelerating down a "chimney" formed by their own movement. Such a "chimney" is hardly likely to form at the end of a trail where the particle size will be necessarily smaller.

FAKE. Go analyze it.

 

[Mick West]

I'm not actually convinced that's a fake, but even so, there are other images one could use. This one is not so abrupt:

Flying through a thermal could give quite well defined edges. Also a reduction and re-application in power might be a possible cause.

Here's a contrail where one end is quite sharp

 

[Jazzy]

I'm not actually convinced that's a fake

You will be if you identify that particular blue code and turn it to a different color. It smacks you in the face.

Or if you look at the telephone line close up.

I did the work years ago on a computer that suddenly stopped. I shall be accessing its drive shortly but not to recover that info. Old hat...

 

[Mick West]

Here. I've 4x'd the pixels, and expanded the dynamic range of the blues:
(from the earliest copy on Carnicom http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/newspray2.htm the above one has decayed a bit through repeated encoding)

I'm not convinced it's fake, the gradient of the sky looks fairly even.

 

[MikeC]

And don't forget the gaps in contrails in this classic -

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[Jazzy]

Yes. But the gaps aren't completely clear, are they?

It was no accident the forger chose a telegraph wire crossing the trail. He meant to edit it clean. The thing is that when you get real close to the wire there is a color bleed which would have taken place naturally in the digital image which is very hard to emulate. It's not on.

Nor are the vertical features in the blue sky. He appears to have used at least two different blues and chased some distance away from the obscured trail.

I have the image I worked from here (having just searched my blog for nearly an hour!). It seems better.

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

I´m not claiming this could solve the question "fake or not", but i found this interesting...

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

Interesting for me is, that these "Contrail-rests" left and rigth are absolutly straigth.

This Picture could be explaned with some Falllstreak Winds, like the winds causing the so called "Punching clouds" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallstreak_hole

But if this happened here - why we don´t see any small changes on the edges of this broken Contrail, like we see them here in https://www.metabunk.org/posts/18636

it could be that some "Scherwinde" (German word for Microburst http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst ) caused this hole in the contrail. But why are the edges of the Contrails so sharp without any signs of Turbulances (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-air_turbulence ) - and why is the left side of the visible contrail different from the rigth side, when something like a Fallstreake takes action in the middle of it?!

The more I look to it, the more it smells like a fake. But this could be my personal problem, so don´t believe on this :-D

 

[TWCobra]

A micro-burst is generally found underneath a thunderstorm, although not always. the cloud would definitely need some vertical development though.

 

[Jazzy]

I´m not claiming this could solve the question "fake or not", but i found this interesting...

You're right. I was focussed so intently on the spraying and editing round the wire that I failed to step back, so-to-speak. It's a fake three ways.

 

[Trailspotter]

You're right. I was focussed so intently on the spraying and editing round the wire that I failed to step back, so-to-speak. It's a fake three ways.

Well, the image was manipulated for sure. Its copy, posted by CalPolyFan at #11, is named broken_chemtrail_sharpen.jpg. Open the image in a separate tab or window and read the filename.

However, the gap itself may be genuine. Incidentally, recently I've taken a picture of a similar gap:



Initially, the diagonal contrail was contiguous, then the gap appeared because some of its middle regions dissipated quicker than the end of the trail.

 

[Jazzy]

Good picture. There's a trail shadow on the right so the trails are above the scud. Maybe the jet cirrus is above?

 

[Trailspotter]

Good picture. There's a trail shadow on the right so the trails are above the scud. Maybe the jet cirrus is above?

Thanks. I'm not sure about terminology. The three crossing contrails cast shadow on the cloud layer below. Is this layer called the scud? Interestingly, if you extrapolate shadow lines, they cross each other differently than the trails themselves, that clearly shows that these trails are at somewhat different altitudes. There is also a cloud layer illuminated by the sun that looks like it's made of white strips. Is it what you call the jet cirrus? There is a bluer strip in this layer that correlate with the position of the gap in the diagonal contrail. It looks like a drier patch in that layer, that may explain why the trail dissipated quicker in this section than in the adjacent parts.

 

[Jazzy]

Thanks. I'm not sure about terminology. The three crossing contrails cast shadow on the cloud layer below. Is this layer called the scud?

Scud is the term normally given to the ragged cloud that forms within falling rain. I was a little loose with it...

Interestingly, if you extrapolate shadow lines, they cross each other differently than the trails themselves, that clearly shows that these trails are at somewhat different altitudes.

I didn't spot that. Well done.

There is also a cloud layer illuminated by the sun that looks like it's made of white strips. Is it what you call the jet cirrus?

Yes. Again a little loosely.

There is a bluer strip in this layer that correlate with the position of the gap in the diagonal contrail. It looks like a drier patch in that layer, that may explain why the trail dissipated quicker in this section than in the adjacent parts.

Yes, I noticed that. Yes, indeed it may. (Applause.)

 

[Mick West]

Here's a close-up

Contrail gaps do quite often show up several minutes after the trail forms. The ends can become more defined as this happens.

 

[Mick West]

Example:

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[Broken External Image]:http://contrailscience.com/skitch/T...rail.720p.mp4-2,_RGB_8)_*-20121103-082101.jpg

 

[Jazzy]

Here's a close-up. Contrail gaps do quite often show up several minutes after the trail forms. The ends can become more defined as this happens.

Yes, smartypants. I remember you catching me out with smoke. I'm still smoldering... LOL

 

[Trailspotter]

Here's a close-up...

I did not bother with a close-up, because I assumed that everybody who reads this forum would know how to see larger versions of images by clicking on them. A close-up does help to focus on an essential point, but it also allows to hide inconvenient details of a bigger picture that otherwise would spoil the desirable effect, e.g., to convert an ordinary dissipating contrail into a "broken chemtrail":

 

[Sickyellcell]

Idk why this pre 1995 is so imp.This has been going on since the late 60s.
Its just recently that its been affecting peoples health and agriculture cause its been so persistent.
They need it more now than ever because of all the electronic waves counting on communications thru sattelites THANK OUR TECHNOLOGY

Theres declassified info and patents pointing to the fact this is real. criss crossing skies of thick trails for 100s of miles ,dont take a scientist to figure out something is WRONG! Its not a military test of scud or these makeshift debunking excuses.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE WASHING OFF LAYERS OF SILVEROXIDE OFF THEIR CARS LIKE POLLEN AND FILING LAWSUITS HOW THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS ARE DEVELOPING HEALTH AND AGRICULTURE ISSUES.You cant debunk that!

This video shows that its not coming out of the engine as contrails.Thats A chem Dump and they are everywhere!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ3zFr3Unzs

How anyone can ATTEMPT to debunk chemtrails is beyond me. USING THE JEDI MIND TRICK>These are not chem their contrails,this that and the other thing,anything except the truth. I call them masters of manipulation and must be sympathsizers of the cause and coverup in one way or the other..

I need to ask MICK>>> DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE FAKE??

Im open minded and I believe nothing until I put many many pieces of the puzzle together.Things seldomly are what we think at first. like lizard aliens lol r they realy chilling out in the desert RIGHT NOW around protected area 51 territory as claimed? ONE NEVER KNOWS.

What needs to happen is the hault of chem in the sky and figure out another way to boost communications or a non lethal form of chems in place of alumna.bottom line