Debunk . . . intuition can save your life or prevent considerable pain and suffering

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I was once pulled away from a store front by a strong feeling to move. . . I turned from a glass window when within seconds a truck came through the glass. . . shards sprayed all over the area. . . I should have been shredded but was never even cut . . . the driver and passenger was severely injured. . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
When is intuition and speculation fruitful?? A dilemma in a scientific age . . .

I know that intuition and speculation seem anathema some places ;however, to me a reasonable dose of speculation and intuition are essential for proper living . . . IMO a life devoid of following a hunch or an impulsive whim or informed guess is essential for happiness and in some cases even survival . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I was used as a disinterested third party investigator and inspector throughout my career . . . the funny thing is many times what turned out to be my most accurate and useful findings were not based solely on fact but a sense of, or intuition of, the state of reality. Maybe the brain simply weighs the preponderance of physical data observed and other experiences (which are sometimes below a conscious threshold) and crunches out the best approximation of reality without even consciously understanding how it was arrived.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I was once pulled away from a store front by a strong feeling to move. . . I turned from a glass window when within seconds a truck came through the glass. . . shards sprayed all over the area. . . I should have been shredded but was never even cut . . . the driver and passenger was severely injured. . .
The thing there though is that the traumatic event fixes and amplifies your memory. One moves away from things all the time, but the one time it happens to save you from injury is the one that you remember, then the memory grows.

Memory is not a recorder of events that you can replay exactly. Memories are constructed, and are subject to both change and creation.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Some people who play roulette think that their intuition helps them from time to time - they get a feeling to put money on one number or another. Your truck example is basically the same.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
The thing there though is that the traumatic event fixes and amplifies your memory. One moves away from things all the time, but the one time it happens to save you from injury is the one that you remember, then the memory grows.

Memory is not a recorder of events that you can replay exactly. Memories are constructed, and are subject to both change and creation.
Good explanation . . . however, take a look at this . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Good explanation . . . however, take a look at this . . .
But what they are talking about (in the NYT) is simply subconscious responses to actual physical perception. Nothing supernatural. Just "something is out of place" type feelings that you get when something is out of place.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Some people who play roulette think that their intuition helps them from time to time - they get a feeling to put money on one number or another. Your truck example is basically the same.
Take a look at this one . . . what do you think . . . ?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
But what they are talking about (in the NYT) is simply subconscious responses to actual physical perception. Nothing supernatural. Just "something is out of place" type feelings that you get when something is out of place.
I never said intuition was supernatural . . . however, I didn't say we knew where the feeling or knowledge came from either . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I never said intuition was supernatural . . . however, I didn't say we knew where the feeling or knowledge came from either . . .
In fact, intuition could simply be an evolutionarily derived defensive and survival mechanism using offline resources to crunch tons of seemingly irrelevant environmental data points to arrive at conclusions only realized or come forward (as a feeling) when the full complement of conscious senses are fully engaged and preoccupied with survival . . . thus the perception of the conclusion was a feeling, a warning, a hunch . Why? Because the overall analysis was way too complex to bring the entire data set and analysis to consciousness because that would overload the organism ability to cope and render it into a state of confusion and paralysis.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
In fact, intuition could simply be an evolutionarily derived defensive and survival mechanism using offline resources to crunch tons of seemingly irrelevant environmental data points to arrive at conclusions only realized or come forward (as a feeling) when the full complement of conscious senses are fully engaged and preoccupied with survival . . . thus the perception of the conclusion was a feeling, a warning, a hunch . Why? Because the overall analysis was way too complex to bring the entire data set and analysis to consciousness because that would overload the organism ability to cope and render it into a state of confusion and paralysis.
Why may this be true . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm unsure what your point is here. Obviously a lot (if not most) of mental processing goes on at the sub-conscious level. So equally obviously the sub-conscious detects things that are not directly considered by the conscious mind, and that filters upwards as feelings and "intuition".
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I'm unsure what your point is here. Obviously a lot (if not most) of mental processing goes on at the sub-conscious level. So equally obviously the sub-conscious detects things that are not directly considered by the conscious mind, and that filters upwards as feelings and "intuition".
So my point is intuition should not be ignored . . . it can save your life. . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
So my point is intuition should not be ignored . . . it can save your life. . . .
Not only that but it can change the world as much as can the scientific method. . .

 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
That intuition is somehow useful does not make your chemtrail theory any more correct :)
That is not the motivation for this Thread (Did your intuition tell you that? . . . LoL!) No, I think the investigation of how intuition evolved and how it is used everyday is fascinating. . . Mick. . . .how do you use intuition and how do you think it works? :)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That is not the motivation for this Thread (Did your intuition tell you that? . . . LoL!) No, I think the investigation of how intuition evolved and how it is used everyday is fascinating. . . Mick. . . .how do you use intuition and how do you think it works? :)
I use intuition to form initial opinions on if someone is trolling. You can't put your finger on it, but you can tell that it "seems" like trolling.

I think it works because your brain has a mental model of what it perceives, and when something does not fit the current model, then you get a "feeling" that something is not right.

Because the human brain evolved from a creature that was often a prey animal, then evolutionary it makes a lot of sense to have a lot of false positives. It's not really dangerous to imagine you hear a wolf behind you, but it is very dangerous not to hear a wolf behind you.

You should not ignore your intuition, but that does not mean you should trust it. Pay attention to it, then check out what it is telling you. Just don't use it as an authority. Lots of things "seem" wrong, but are not.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
People remember their correct intuition more than their incorrect intuition. Women often have a "feeling" as to if they are having a boy or a girl. Basically this is a 50/50 guess, but how do they recollect it? Well, judging by a quick Google comparison, they are five times more likely to report a correct intuition than an incorrect one:



 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I use intuition to form initial opinions on if someone is trolling. You can't put your finger on it, but you can tell that it "seems" like trolling.

I think it works because your brain has a mental model of what it perceives, and when something does not fit the current model, then you get a "feeling" that something is not right.

Because the human brain evolved from a creature that was often a prey animal, then evolutionary it makes a lot of sense to have a lot of false positives. It's not really dangerous to imagine you hear a wolf behind you, but it is very dangerous not to hear a wolf behind you.

You should not ignore your intuition, but that does not mean you should trust it. Pay attention to it, then check out what it is telling you. Just don't use it as an authority. Lots of things "seem" wrong, but are not.
That's good. . . I thought you would PooPoo the whole concept . . . to me the real question is when should one rely on it instead of contrary information . . . like in the original Post . . . had I not moved . . . I might not be here . . . I was engaged in cleaning the area and my feeling persuaded me to move. . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That's good. . . I thought you would PooPoo the whole concept . . . to me the real question is when should one rely on it instead of contrary information . . . like in the original Post . . . had I not moved . . . I might not be here . . . I was engaged in cleaning the area and my feeling persuaded me to move. . . .
But how many times have you moved for no apparent reason, but nothing happened, so you just don't remember.

How many time did you NOT move, and something hit you?

People often back-rationalize their actions and decisions. When asked to explain why they did something, they will create a reason.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Many dog breeders develop an intuition about puppies getting sick. They will take a puppy into the vet and the vet can not find any problem, but the puppy will develop an illness within hours. Bugs the devil out of your vet. We used to discuss this and we decided that we handled the puppies a lot and we could pick up on slight differences in the way they moved or cried, that were not normal.

Sort of like reading body language. I am no good at reading body language, but I am fairly good at reading 'body language' in what some one types.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
But how many times have you moved for no apparent reason, but nothing happened, so you just don't remember.

How many time did you NOT move, and something hit you?

People often back-rationalize their actions and decisions. When asked to explain why they did something, they will create a reason.
As I said that is an explanation . . . however, how do you explain the brilliant insight described by Einstein and others?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Many dog breeders develop an intuition about puppies getting sick. They will take a puppy into the vet and the vet can not find any problem, but the puppy will develop an illness within hours. Bugs the devil out of your vet. We used to discuss this and we decided that we handled the puppies a lot and we could pick up on slight differences in the way they moved or cried, that were not normal.

Sort of like reading body language. I am no good at reading body language, but I am fairly good at reading 'body language' in what some one types.
Could be an extra sensory ability. . . as ELF waves that are subliminal for the most part. . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
We may have vestigial senses and abilities . . .

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
As I said that is an explanation . . . however, how do you explain the brilliant insight described by Einstein and others?
That's very different from sensing a truck is about to hit you for audio and visual cues (or from a created memory of an urge to move).

Einstein is talking about science, and coming up with hypotheses. How else would you describe that other than intuition?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
That's very different from sensing a truck is about to hit you for audio and visual cues (or from a created memory of an urge to move).

Einstein is talking about science, and coming up with hypotheses. How else would you describe that other than intuition?
How would you explain anything you don't understand . . .? It cannot be measured, predicted or easily described or defined. . . much like life in general or emotions, beliefs, and so forth. . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
How would you explain anything you don't understand . . .? It cannot be measured, predicted or easily described or defined. . . much like life in general or emotions, beliefs, and so forth. . . .
Seems there are at least two types of intuition. . . both are rather immediate but one is in crisis situations (move now or die) and the other is after intellectual inquiry. . . .

 

lotek

Active Member
probably....


it just happens to apply to almost everything on this website... i know i post it a lot but it REALLY does apply here. i said sticky, as in im not gunna get into it past what i said because i doubt there is any valid study conducted on this, and if there is, it will probably be misquoted in an optimistic manner.

am i here to say we dont notice things without thinking about them cognitively? no. but im not gunna get into it because i feel it to iffy a subject matter. kinda like talking about unified field theory without being a physicist.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
I'm with Mick here. How many times does ANYONE say "I had a feeling but I was wrong!" How many scientific theories haven't panned out? How any gambles taken in battle ended up a disaster? (Yoo Hoo, Col. Custer, you forgot your Gatling Guns.....oh and don't attack that village down there just because you figure it worked once....) Fascinating discussion over a few beers.....
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I'm with Mick here. How many times does ANYONE say "I had a feeling but I was wrong!" How many scientific theories haven't panned out? How any gambles taken in battle ended up a disaster? (Yoo Hoo, Col. Custer, you forgot your Gatling Guns.....oh and don't attack that village down there just because you figure it worked once....) Fascinating discussion over a few beers.....
Hmmm . . . you seem to be saying intuition is not much better than deductive logic and the scientific method a 50/50 proposition . . . LoL!!!
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
Hmmm . . . you seem to be saying intuition is not much better than deductive logic and the scientific method a 50/50 proposition . . . LoL!!!
it's kinda like life: Win some, lose some, get rained out a few. We mostly remember the wins.
 

lotek

Active Member
"the scientific method a 50/50 proposition"

What?

im kinda confused tho i may be reading both your comments wrong there.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I think intuition is strongly based on sensory information that is normally filtered from conscious awareness . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuNDkcbq8PY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/navy-program-to-study-how-troops-use-intuition/

Of course it could be a "men who stare at goats" kind of thing.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Some Poll results . . .

 
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