Death of Ashli Babbit in the US Capitol

Mendel

Senior Member.
Regarding Ashli Babbit's fatal injury:
Article:
"As protesters were forcing their way toward the House Chamber where Members of Congress were sheltering in place, a sworn USCP employee discharged their service weapon, striking an adult female," Sund said.

"As per the USCP’s policy, the USCP employee has been placed on administrative leave and their police powers have been suspended pending the outcome of a joint Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) and USCP investigation."

Video circulating on social media of the encounter shows a group of rioters trying to force their way into the Speaker's Lobby, which is a hallway behind the House chamber where lawmakers, staff and reporters typically gather during votes. Access has been restricted during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The rioters broke the glass panels on the outside of the Speaker's Lobby. A person in the video starts to climb through one of the broken windows, but after a gunshot fires the person falls back onto the ground.

iiif-service_pnp_highsm_13400_13419-full-pct_25-0-default.jpg
Speaker's Lobby, https://www.loc.gov/item/2011631613/

The doors on the right open to the House Chamber, where Representatives were sheltering.
A glass door, similar to the one visible at the far end of this photograph, was barricaded. The windows had been broken by the rioters, and Ashli Babbit was the first person climbing through one of the windows, with a mob of rioters behind her, when she was shot in the shoulder.
Article:
When a group of pro-Trump rioters stormed the Capitol and smashed windows on Wednesday, a woman jumped onto a pane and started through.
Seconds later, a gunshot rang out and the woman, who had a Trump flag tied around her waist, tipped back and fell onto the marble floor as blood spilled from her shoulder. [..] She died later that day, police said.


Article:

Capitol riots: A visual guide to the storming of Congress​

_116385214_capitol_white_house_map_640_colour-nc.png
_116389918_capitol_floorplan_map2_640-nc.png
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There's several videos of the events, one of the best for context is a 44 minute uncut by an Infowars reporter which includes 30 minutes after he climbs through the window
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWrgYNLClgU

The shooting happens at 39 minutes in.
Start around 36 minutes.


2021-01-08_07-59-30.jpg
36:03 - score of people banging on what looks like the door to the Senate chamber, mass chanting "Break it down, break it down"


2021-01-08_08-02-04.jpg
36:15 - People start to move down the corridor to the left ("not sure why")


2021-01-08_08-03-33.jpg
36:21 - "one serious individual" pushing people out of the way, seemingly looking for an open door.

2021-01-08_08-06-34.jpg
36:58, they rounded one corner. Person in red attempts to kick in door, at least his fourth kick.


2021-01-08_08-07-50.jpg
37:13 about to round another corner


2021-01-08_08-09-37.jpg
37:22 - round another corner, you now see the door to the speaker's lobby. The Senate chamber is just through there to the right. "looks like we have some patriots trying to break the glass"

2021-01-08_08-14-34.jpg
37:52 - Three policemen and an official (maybe Secret Service) are trapped against the door by the crowd. Other cops or Secret Service are see in the lobby behind. Babbit is right at the front, you can see her flag cape and the back of her head.


2021-01-08_08-18-04.jpg
38:10 chants of "break it down". Infowars guy says "people will start getting hurt if you break stuff" (He's expressed similar concern before)

2021-01-08_08-23-20.jpg
38:18 Babbit move back a bit. Just before this there was a loud female voice shouting "break it down", possibly her.


2021-01-08_08-24-46.jpg
38:34 - Four heavily armed police come up the stairs.

2021-01-08_08-28-54.jpg
38:49 - They talk to the cops. Babbit is right there.


2021-01-08_08-30-50.jpg
38:56 - The Capitol Hill cops are evacuated, leaving the door unguarded. The mob starts to break the windows

2021-01-08_08-33-50.jpg
39:05 Babbit (on the right) pushes her way to the front, accidentally hitting a man in the face, knocking off his glasses.

2021-01-08_08-35-41.jpg
39:10 - Babbit attempts to get through the window, a single shot is fired at her by a cop inside the Speaker's Lobby, and she falls back to the ground.

40:07 - She appears to stop breathing.

2021-01-08_08-44-16.jpg
41:07, trying to get people to move A cop says the medics "won't come if it's unruly"

There's people are shouting for other people to move, but don't move themselves
 
Last edited:

Rory

Senior Member.
Ashli Babbit was the first person climbing through one of the windows, with a mob of rioters behind her, when she was shot in the shoulder.

I'd heard it reported [that she was shot in the shoulder] - but I'm curious: if that's the case, why does quite a lot of blood come out of her mouth?

I guess maybe the bullet entered her shoulder but, because of the angle - the shooter off to the side - penetrated something more serious.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I'd heard it reported [that she was shot in the shoulder] - but I'm curious: if that's the case, why does quite a lot of blood come out of her mouth?

I guess maybe the bullet entered her shoulder but, because of the angle - the shooter off to the side - penetrated something more serious.
My source is the WaPo article that I quoted; and I don't know where they got it from. We do know she wasn't shot in the head.
I imagine the bullet could well have punctured an airway or the throat.

I expect there'll be an inquest; and I also expect the medical examiner has already performed an autopsy, but it's not public yet. Once that is out, we'll know for sure.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
2021-01-08_15-24-47.jpg

She was shot from the side, the bullet could quite possibly hit both shoulder and neck.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Another video of the first scene shows Ashli Babbitt attempting to enter the Speaker's Lobby, leading to the House chamber.

 

Rory

Senior Member.
My worry was that when it was reported as "shot in the shoulder and died" the conspiracy theorists would jump on that and label it bs. "Who dies (pretty much immediately) from being shot in the shoulder?" etc.

I would think if I got shot in the shoulder and then the bullet entered my neck I'd probably tell people "I got shot in the neck" (assuming I was still around to do so).
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
My worry was that when it was reported as "shot in the shoulder and died" the conspiracy theorists would jump on that and label it bs. "Who dies (pretty much immediately) from being shot in the shoulder?" etc.

I would think if I got shot in the shoulder and then the bullet entered my neck I'd probably tell people "I got shot in the neck" (assuming I was still around to do so).
early reporting in such events is very often wrong.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
This is an eyewitness account by Keith Stern, the floor director for Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Article:
Capitol police decided we’re evacuating. They opened one of the doors into the Speaker’s lobby and started pushing people out. But up in the gallery there’s no easy way out. It’s literally like an obstacle course. I’m pointing and yelling, “Go, go, go! That way! Get through!” The banging on the front door is intensifying. It sounded violent. All of a sudden you hear a crack. It sounded like a gunshot. The police had their guns out. And I just sprinted out of the chamber.

One of the videos of the Ashli incident I've seen points out a Representative moving through a door at the far end of the Speaker's Lobby. The Representatives were literally moving through that hallway with only that one door between them and the mob right then. It makes sense that there would be a troop of police in riot gear coming up the stairs there at that precise time; they were probably tasked with sealing off that entry to the underground passage, and to keep that door safe.

Then Ashli Babbit decided to climb through that door. I have no doubt that the shot that killed her was justified.
 
Last edited:

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
I would think if I got shot in the shoulder and then the bullet entered my neck I'd probably tell people "I got shot in the neck" (assuming I was still around to do so).
I think there's a big movie misconception surrounding "just" being hit in the shoulder.

Bullets don't always take a predictable linear path once they enter a body, there's a lot of variables. Angle, ricochets, fragmentation, calibre, projectile makeup etc. can turn a minor into a major very quickly.
 

Patrick Gonzalez

New Member
I think it is possible that the police officer who made the shot may have intended it to be a warning shot for the protesters but accidentally hit Babbit. Do we know what type of gun was used? Either way, watching her on the ground bleeding was shocking and sad. It is very tragic that things in the United States have come that way.
 

igoddard

Active Member
This is another video that ends in the shooting of Ashli Babbitt. I've included some time-cited comments about the apparent attitudes, motivations and actions of the mob that also found their way to the Speaker's Lobby where Babbitt was shot. The times cited are typically targeted seconds before what I'm commenting on such that my comments pertain to what follows shortly after the cited times. Given all the locations this crowd exists are beyond limits police attempted to secure, I call the crowd a 'mob' to acknowledge their illicit intentions.



0:15: The mob idling on Capitol steps outside begins surging forward to get into the Capitol.

1:32: At the top of the steps, Capitol Police abandon a gated crowd-control line as the mob begins pushing on the gate. A couple officers held up their batons as threats. While some speculate Capitol Police officers abandon their positions because they were in cahoots with the mob, what we see here looks to me like they were actually coerced by fear of the mob.

2:44: As the videographer approaches an overlook, we have a wide view of the massive siege on U.S. Capital, a sea of thousands of angry people extends across the lawn and down Pennsylvania Avenue as far as the eye can see. Freeze frame here to see all the people below. Riot police in black helmets on the lawn directly below (lower right of the frame) are seen being surrounded and pushed back by the forward-surging crowd. At the same time those retreating officers were also recorded from the ground here.

6:14: The videographer enters the Capitol. The scene inside is chaotic, people walking left and right, people yelling, sounds of banging, smoke wafting through the air, flags all over. The mob seems to be looking all over for something.

8:10: Police try to eject the videographer and others. He is quasi-detained by the police until 12:32.

13:25: Two identically paramilitary-clad individuals with heavy-duty gas-masks are seen. A shoulder patch on one guy has a cross with “Armor of God” overlaid. While there are numerous members of the mob in various degrees of military dress, these guy seem rather conspicuous. An implication is that those who came to D.C. with military dress and gas masks intended to engage in a siege on the Capitol.

Armor-of-God-kooks-at-Capitol-siege.png

17:29: A man walks past the camera loudly saying, “Speaker Nancy Pelosi [illegible]…”

18:38: Marching forward, the mob approaches a line of police officers and begins chanting, “USA, USA, …”

19:02: THREATS: Held at the line of Capitol Police, a woman in the mob directly facing the officers yells at them: “Tell Pelosi we’re coming for that bitch. Tell fucking Pelosi, we’re coming for her. You fucking traitorous cops, we’re coming for her.” Several members of the mob call the officers traitors. These moments underscore the insurrectionist fervor in the crowd and the great danger the mob posed for any elected officials, it seems particularly Nancy Pelosi, if they were to get their hands on them.

Tell Pelosi we’re coming for that bitch. Tell fucking Pelosi, we’re coming for her. You fucking traitorous cops, we’re coming for her.”

19:32: The mob starts chanting, “Stop the steal, stop the steal, ….” Obviously, what Trump persuaded them to believe, that the 2020 Presidential election was stolen, is what they’re there about. And they are there to try to impede the certification of the election scheduled to occur that day.

Screen Shot 2021-01-11 at 2.00.28 AM.png

20:14: The mob begins chanting, “We want Trump, we want Trump, …” Obviously, their demand is that the results of the 2020 election be thrown out and Trump be allowed to stay in office.

20:54: It sounds to me that it is the videographer who indirectly threatens officers, saying they are going to get hurt if they don’t let the mob advance, and he asserts the mob’s authority by saying: “The people have spoken.” So they should cede to the will of 'the people'.

22:06: THREATS: After random calls of the police officers as traitors, a mob member tells the police holding the line in a seriously threatening tone: “This ain’t going to end well boys. It’s not going to fucking end well. No, no it’s not!” The implication was that the officers are going to suffer some terrible fate if they don't let the mob proceed.

26:10: The mob finally breaks through the police line. The videographer is at the front of the breach and seems to help push the officers back while pleading with them to stop resisting.

26:47: Surging forward from the line breach, as the mob enters a narrow short hallway before a closed door, they start chanting, “Stop the steal, stop the steal, …” The impression is they sense they will momentarily be entering a room, so they intend to introduce themselves as they enter with their thematic chant. Instead, they spend several minutes futilely attempting to open the door.

31:39: Still unable to breach the door, the mob starts chanting, “Break it down, break it down, …” They are certainly many miles past any possibility of having the misimpression that they are engaged in legal activity.

33:00: The mob enters the short hallway to the Speaker’s Lobby where Babbitt will be shot in a few minutes. The mob screams, “Open the door,” and begins pounding on it. Some mob members mobilize the crowd forward shouting, “Let’s go, let’s go.” The videographer pushes his way through the packed crowd appearing to say, “Let me through, I’ve got a knife.”

33:59: Facing three officers who are standing in the way of the Lobby entrance, a member of the mob shouts, “Fuck the blue,” twice.

34:04: The videographer reaches the Lobby doorway and it seems to me that it is he who says to an officer guarding the door: "We want you to go home. I'm recording, and there's so many people, they’re going to push their way up here. Bro, I've seen people out there get hurt. I don't want to see you get hurt." Then the officers leave, whereupon the mob recommences bashing their way through the Lobby’s glass-windowed doors.

34:51: It seems to me that it is the videographer who sees through a window a gun held by an officer inside the Lobby and repeatedly yells the warning: “There’s a gun!” Babbitt nevertheless proceeds to enter through a smashed-out window and is shot, falling back to the floor as other cops with some serious guns arrive from behind up a flight of stairs. The mob becomes distracted from trying to breach the Lobby by the medical emergency of Babbitt bleeding out as she lays on the floor. This distraction allows time for more police officers to arrive.

39:15: The police begin pushing the mob out of the short Lobby hallway and the video ends soon thereafter. The shooting of Babbitt created a distraction that broke the focus of the mob. While they didn't seem to assume they were going to get shot next, given that they didn't run for cover, they did cease further efforts to proceed breaking into the Lobby.

At this time it remains somewhat mystifying exactly what the mob intended to do to ensure the 2020 election was overthrown. But this footage establishes that the belief installed in their minds by Trump, Giuliani and others that the election was stolen was what motivated their criminal siege on the U.S. Capitol. It seems reasonable to assume is that if this mob, or other mobs roving around the Capitol, had found the elected officials on their hit lists, those officials could have been harmed, held hostage or killed. Imagine if a mob of people were screaming that they're coming for you and began trying to break down your front door. The likelihood that you could suffer serious bodily injury or even death would not be an unreasonable concern.
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
It seems reasonable to assume is that if this mob, or other mobs roving around the Capitol, had found the elected officials on their hit lists, those officials could have been harmed, held hostage or killed.
The mob beat officer Sicknick to death. The danger was real.
 

igoddard

Active Member
Just today it's reported that the videographer, John Sullivan, whom I quote in my post above, was arrested:

Utah activist who provided video of deadly D.C. riot to investigators arrested​

@ https://www.abc4.com/news/local-new...of-deadly-d-c-riot-to-investigators-arrested/


Here's the DoJ affidavit against him.

Here's an excerpt therefrom that quotes some of the same statements I quoted above:

Sullivan-affidavit-quote.png

Seems his own video sealed his fate. I can't see how he's not going to be at least in big trouble.

While, to his credit Sullivan yelled out the warning, "There's a gun!," the argument can be made that he played a role in instigating the circumstances that led to Babbitt's death. He applied a psychological crowbar on the officers standing at the doorway that truly seemed to have pried open their willingness to leave, which then opened the path for Babbitt to make her final and fatal mistake. ~Ian
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
truly seemed to have pried open their willingness to leave
I don't know if that's provably true; it would depend on whether they had radio communications and what that effected; what they heard from other officers behind the door; and how spotting the troop coming up the stairs affected them.

But that's not actually important for the videographer's trial: this is what he was charged with (from the affidavit you linked, https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1354781/download ):
A lot of people are going to be charged with doing exactly that.
Sullivan seems to be admitting everything that's obvious from the video, but no more; and is co-operating fully with law enforcement to the extent of that. The charges don't include the knife; that may change if they can find a picture of him actually having a knife at the event.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
While, to his credit Sullivan yelled out the warning, "There's a gun!," the argument can be made that he played a role in instigating the circumstances that led to Babbitt's death. He applied a psychological crowbar on the officers standing at the doorway that truly seemed to have pried open their willingness to leave
I don't think that's true at all. It looked more like the heavily armed officers were going to relieve the ones who were trapped, not realizing how vulnerable the windows were, or the strength of the intent of some in the the crowd to get through even though guns were drawn.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I don't think that's true at all. It looked more like the heavily armed officers were going to relieve the ones who were trapped, not realizing how vulnerable the windows were, or the strength of the intent of some in the the crowd to get through even though guns were drawn.
Plus the other two officers in front of the door didnt even hear Sullivan, they didnt even glance his way, other than the furthest guy glancing super brief just to make sure the weirdo with the selfie stick wasnt starting anything with his fellow officer. The one furthest away from Sullivan, waved the other two officers to move away from the door.

end of "lets go" wave:
1610730552456.png
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Since we're talking about John Sullivan, let's debunk the claim that he's a "left-wing activist". It's already fairly clear from the evidence in the affidavit that I quoted in my previous post. He's also been excluded from actual left-wing protest groups as far back as November:
Source: https://twitter.com/RebellionBaby/status/1331902011147620352

Source: https://twitter.com/RebellionBaby/status/1331902012309471232


The claims:
Article:

Left-wing activist charged in Capitol riot after saying he was just there to 'document'​

John Sullivan told Fox News last week he regularly attends and takes video at protests

Article:
A liberal activist from Utah was arrested on Thursday on federal charges that he took part in the riot at the Capitol last week.

John Sullivan, 26, founder of a protest group called Insurgence USA, was charged in a criminal complaint with one felony count of interfering with law enforcement in connection with a civil disorder, as well as misdemeanor charges of unlawful entry and disorderly conduct.

I'm not convinced that "Insurgence USA" isn't simply an elaborate sales site.
Article:
insurgenceusa.jpg
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
When Babbitt goes down her arms are in the classic Thorburn's position. That indicates that the bullet hit in the C6 region and traumatized the spinal cord there. There are all sorts of variables to consider; relative positions and body posture. But it's not unlikely that she got shot in the shoulder or arm from the side and the bullet passed through. Expensive handgun bullets are typically designed to penetrate 18 inches.

Spinal-cord_LOGO-768x768.jpgthorburn-1.png

She also displays agonal breathing, which shows that the spinal cord was traumatized but not severed.

An ugly sight.

This was a devastating wound and a quick death, but a shot to the shoulder can be fatal. If the axillary artery is completely severed it would be a matter of minutes..
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
From your first picture, C6 is in the neck; how much of an upward trajectory would the bullet need to enter at the shoulder and then reach that high, given the trajectory was straight (which it may not have been)?

I still maintain it'd be better to get the facts from the autopsy when we have a record of the inquest, rather than to engage in speculation.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
To me these two screen shots epitomize the thoughtless, entitled, childish behavior of this mob.

Fur hat guy (FBI photo #79) was aggressive and phony tough.
dhild.png


Here he is after the shot. A frightened child.

real.png
 
Last edited:

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
From your first picture, C6 is in the neck; how much of an upward trajectory would the bullet need to enter at the shoulder and then reach that high, given the trajectory was straight (which it may not have been)?

I still maintain it'd be better to get the facts from the autopsy when we have a record of the inquest, rather than to engage in speculation.

Think about all the different postural positions she could have been in. (E.g. Leaning to the right, leaning forward, shoulders hunched, shoulders relaxed, etc.) The bullet may or may not have passed through the arm or shoulder. That part is speculation. But the nature of the neck wound is clear. Just pointing out the physiological signs.

000088.png
 
Last edited:

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Expensive handgun bullets are typically designed to penetrate 18 inches.
Not even that expensive, but also depends on calibre and type of projectile. I'd be very confident in saying that theyre a standard hollow point. That 18 inches is also cited a lot from an older FBI study "handgun wounding factors" which has been used for a long time to justify which firearms are rated for Police use.


From your first picture, C6 is in the neck; how much of an upward trajectory would the bullet need to enter at the shoulder and then reach that high, given the trajectory was straight (which it may not have been)?
Generally ammunition for law enforcement is hollow point to prevent over-penetration. It causes the round to deform and rapidly fragments/expands within the body to create a large wound channel. The upper body is especially boney and creates lots of fragmentation and ricochet potential. It wouldn't be unreasonable for the projectile/parts to have deflected to the neck.
 

boog

New Member
There's concern about if #helmetboy is a plant that came from behind police lines or something.helmetboy_path.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

igoddard

Active Member
Plus the other two officers in front of the door didnt even hear Sullivan, they didnt even glance his way, other than the furthest guy glancing super brief just to make sure the weirdo with the selfie stick wasnt starting anything with his fellow officer. The one furthest away from Sullivan, waved the other two officers to move away from the door.

end of "lets go" wave:
1610730552456.png
Keen observation deidre and Mick! It looks like their leaving was independent of Sullivan's pleading that they leave.

My original and main point is that Sullivan repeatedly plies the officers to abandon their posts (both here and at the prior police line), which belies his pretense as an objective journalist. It seems he instead adopted the role of trying to direct an action-packed viral video. But ya, on second look he probably didn't succeed and thus didn't play a role in Babbitt's death.

The fact that the affidavit quotes his pleadings for officers to stand down both at the Speaker's Lobby (above) and previously (affidavit, page 11) suggests prosecutors will count these pleadings against his innocence.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
P Need Debunking: "Experimental Vaccine Death Rate for Israel's Elderly 40 Times Higher Than COVID-19 Deaths" Coronavirus COVID-19 7
Akton Claims of Drug Overdose in the Death of George Floyd Current Events 35
DavidB66 Wuhan Funeral Urns as an Indicator of Death Rate? Coronavirus COVID-19 31
Mick West Jeffery Epstein's Death Current Events 112
Mick West Clustering Illusions, Baader-Meinhof, and Death in the Domincan Republic General Discussion 15
Mackdog Justice Scalia death: No autopsy as evidence of conspiracy Conspiracy Theories 15
Mick West Debunked: Rise In Respiratory Mortality from 4th to 3rd Cause of Death. "Chemtrail Flu" General Discussion 13
Leifer 3 scientists investigating melting Arctic ice may have been assassinated Conspiracy Theories 8
Redwood James Fetzer Claims Lenny Pozner Forged Death Certificate Sandy Hook 13
Mick West Debunked: "There are many ways to make the death rate increase." - Robert McNamara Quotes Debunked 0
StratMatt777 Debunked: Ted Gunderson Chemtrails and "Death Dumps" Contrails and Chemtrails 49
Mick West Debunked: Sandy Hook Victims not in Social Security Death Index (SSDI Official Death Records) Sandy Hook 9
Mick West Debunked: Internet Death Hoax Story Generator on MediaMass General Discussion 5
Josh Heuer Paul Walker's unfortunate death - conspiracy theories General Discussion 1
Oxymoron Saudi Arabia Sends 1300 Death Row Inmates to Syria to Fight for Jihad? Conspiracy Theories 5
J Michael Hastings Death Brings About Conspiracy Theories, Reporter's Deadly Car Crash, Conspiracy Theories 29
B 2pac faked his death Conspiracy Theories 1
PCWilliams Debunked: JFK was killed because of an executive he signed months before his death Conspiracy Theories 1

Related Articles

Top