Cyprus financial problems

J

Joe

Guest
The ending is so perfect, thanks Joe, good to laugh first thing in the morning.
your welcome :) Hey is their a run on the banks in cypress ? "People with bank accounts in Cyprus were shocked Saturday to learn that as part of an agreement reached with international creditors, the government has imposed a tax on all deposits to help bail out the nation and its banks."http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/16/eurozone-country-surprise-were-putting-at-least-a-6-75-tax-on-your-bank-account/
 

pseacraft

Active Member
your welcome :) Hey is their a run on the banks in cypress ? "People with bank accounts in Cyprus were shocked Saturday to learn that as part of an agreement reached with international creditors, the government has imposed a tax on all deposits to help bail out the nation and its banks."http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/16/eurozone-country-surprise-were-putting-at-least-a-6-75-tax-on-your-bank-account/

Shocked is an understatement. They are livid! :D There where huge lines at the atm's because they thought that the banks had frozen everything, the rumors that were flying about OMG! In reality (if they would read and listen) they would have noticed and realized that the freeze is on international transfers. I keep an account here just to pay my utility bills and I emptied it today because I do not think I should have to pay for their problems being a non-citizen (expatriot working here). If I were a citizen then I would have no objection as I find the EU's justification with regard to the massive money laundry operations here to be quite just. I (we expats) basically have no rights and the justice system protects the locals via a corrupted system that is unparalleled and the lack of responsibility and finger pointing is stupefying. I am also "accused" by my GF's employer of being one of those evil people behind the 'spraying' here because I work on a particular aircraft and I apparently have a "high" salary and that must be why its high. :mad: The lack of a solid basic education is rampant here also, truly sad.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Shocked is an understatement. They are livid! :D There where huge lines at the atm's because they thought that the banks had frozen everything, the rumors that were flying about OMG! In reality (if they would read and listen) they would have noticed and realized that the freeze is on international transfers. I keep an account here just to pay my utility bills and I emptied it today because I do not think I should have to pay for their problems being a non-citizen (expatriot working here). If I were a citizen then I would have no objection as I find the EU's justification with regard to the massive money laundry operations here to be quite just. I (we expats) basically have no rights and the justice system protects the locals via a corrupted system that is unparalleled and the lack of responsibility and finger pointing is stupefying. I am also "accused" by my GF's employer of being one of those evil people behind the 'spraying' here because I work on a particular aircraft and I apparently have a "high" salary and that must be why its high. :mad: The lack of a solid basic education is rampant here also, truly sad.
Im glad I dont live in New Zealand [h=1]IS NEW ZEALAND REALLY CONSIDERING A CYPRUS-STYLE LEVY ON DEPOSITORS?http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...onsidering-a-cyprus-style-levy-on-depositors/[/h]
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
<well off topic>
Im glad I dont live in New Zealand [h=1]IS NEW ZEALAND REALLY CONSIDERING A CYPRUS-STYLE LEVY ON DEPOSITORS?http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...onsidering-a-cyprus-style-levy-on-depositors/[/h]
We'll soon put a stop to that, taking a page from this guy's book...
http://events.stuff.co.nz/2013/icelands-hordur-torfason-talks-active-democracy/wellington
He's giving a talk this evening and I am keen to go along and hear what he has to say, and see who else is there.
The Paramount Theatre http://events.stuff.co.nz/venue/paramount-theatre-wellington, 25 Courtenay Place, Wellington.
</well off topic>
 
J

Joe

Guest
<well off topic>

We'll soon put a stop to that, taking a page from this guy's book...
http://events.stuff.co.nz/2013/icelands-hordur-torfason-talks-active-democracy/wellington
He's giving a talk this evening and I am keen to go along and hear what he has to say, and see who else is there.
The Paramount Theatre http://events.stuff.co.nz/venue/paramount-theatre-wellington, 25 Courtenay Place, Wellington.
</well off topic>
It was a reply to Pseacraft on Cypress since he lives there . Mick is more then welcome to move it or delete it .
 
J

Joe

Guest
Lots of countries consider lots of things - recently the New Zealand Govt has "considered" taxing car parks and employer-supplied computers & phones!.

And rejected both ideas.

And I am pretty sure that this one will go the same way too.
I hope so for your sake . In America they just keep on printing money then give it to their banking friends which devalues our currency which is a hidden tax called inflation .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
What will happen then ? Bank Collapse ? Unrest ? Russian bailout ? I already know they turned it down . They have to do something it wont just go away .

Indeed - given that it is Cyprus that got itself into this, as did Greece, Spain, Italy, etc., I find it interesting that a lot of people think that someone else should bail them out.

Blame the banks all you like - ultimately it WAS "the people" of those countries and otehrs that enjoyed the advantages of being tax havens or the over-spending/borrowing or the over-capitalisation of the housing market or a combination of all of those and more.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Inflation is not hidden, and it is not a tax.
INFLATION AS A HIDDEN TAX

Inflation is actually an old, secret method of taxing the people without their knowledge. This may sound strange because no one talks about inflation as a tax. However, I will explain.
When extra money is printed up and put into circulation, it costs the government very little. The only cost is that of printing. Each paper bill of any denomination from $1 To $1,000 or more costs less than fifty cents to manufacture. So it is almost free money for the government.
They just run the printing press and it suddenly exists. It seems like they can create value out of nothing. It is wonderful for the government, which is why most governments do it all the time. Most nations, by the way, do it far more than the United States. We are not used to inflation, but in other nations of Africa and Asia, it is business as usual.
The government can then lavish the money on all their favorite projects without worrying about the people complaining, because the money seems to be “free”.
However, it is not free. What it does is to slowly dilute the money that is in existence already, like diluting the milk in the analogy above. So all the money the people already have, including all their savings, salaries and all the rest, slowly start to be worth less. In this sense, inflation is a very hidden tax, or way the government confiscates the people’s real wealth.

If the government gave its new printed money to each of us to spend, it wouldn’t be so bad. Then at least we would all have more of the diluted or less valuable money. But they never do this, as a rule. They give it their favored friends and projects. Everyone else is just cheated out of some of their wealth. This is indeed a sneaky way to tax people because:

· It happens so slowly that few people see it.
· It is hidden, as there are no tax forms to fill out or taxes added to your purchases or bills.
· Unlike other taxes, no one seems to force you to pay up on April 15 or any other day
· People actually feel richer because often their salary and the price of their house goes up. In fact, many actually have more money, but of course all that cash is worth less.
· Inflation does not require any new laws that people could debate and vote down. Thus it happens silently and secretly.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I don't remember any major problem with severe inflation in the EU. I listen to 3-4 hrs of the BBC most days, so I tend to be more aware of European issues than the average person
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
? forked ?

The topic has branched onto something else.
Not actually forked. That is when two topics are in process at the same time in the same thread.
If someone picks up the original topic, then it will have "forked" - like a fork in the road. Bifurcated is a better word, but not in common usage.
"Oh, look a bifurcation in the path!" No.
 
J

Joe

Guest
I don't remember any major problem with severe inflation in the EU. I listen to 3-4 hrs of the BBC most days, so I tend to be more aware of European issues than the average person
They say there is no inflation in America either ? Hmm I say they are lying .
 
J

Joe

Guest
The topic has branched onto something else.
Not actually forked. That is when two topics are in process at the same time in the same thread.
If someone picks up the original topic, then it will have "forked" - like a fork in the road. Bifurcated is a better word, but not in common usage.
"Oh, look a bifurcation in the path!" No.
It seemed I wasnt the only one who has been forking around ? the camera adapters were kinda forked off ?
 

pseacraft

Active Member
What will happen then ? Bank Collapse ? Unrest ? Russian bailout ? I already know they turned it down . They have to do something it wont just go away .

Joe - My off the cuff prediction is Putin and his ex-KGB mates and other unsavory types will drop a booty ton of cash into Cyprus in exchange for the natural gas being explored offshore right now by Noble. There has been lots of chatter over the last year of putting in a gas pipeline through Turkey (the sworn enemy) and in my minds eye that means one place to go...

MikeC - you are absolutely correct, the people here are 100% responsible for the situation but as with ALL things on this island its not their fault, they are innocent victims. This place really is a fourth world country.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
INFLATION AS A HIDDEN TAX

Yes I am well aware that some people like to consider it a tax.

However the fact is that it is not - even as your title reveals "...AS A...." - it isn't, but we can think of it as....
 

MikeC

Closed Account
MikeC - you are absolutely correct, the people here are 100% responsible for the situation but as with ALL things on this island its not their fault, they are innocent victims. This place really is a fourth world country.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not??
 

MikeC

Closed Account
They say there is no inflation in America either ? Hmm I say they are lying .

Who is "they"?

AFAIK the "official" position on inflation is that it is low - around 2-3% - see here - not the same thing as "no inflation" at all.

Inflation is fairly easy to measure - what is your data for saying they are lying?
 

pseacraft

Active Member
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not??

Not sarcasim, just calling it as i see it. Sorry if it read that way. But your correct it is their fault, they have the right to vote, their politicians, their politically appointed ministers, their lack of education, their lack of responsibility...etc...
 

SeanDWalker

New Member
The real place inflation is happening at the moment is in luxury items, thousand pound watches, luxury yachts (double in price since 2008), cars...

The rest of it is hidden, e.g. horsemeat burgers instead of rising prices, 500ml bottles of wine, 8g tobacco, 6 rashers of bacon...

Energy prices, rent prices are massively on the increase in the UK - around 6-7% on rent and 10-15% energy while wages have faced real and hidden decline post 2008.

Then of course you have money printing on a global scale, the real question is why this hasn't caused more inflation than it has....

Usually a sign that inflation is happening is wage increases of course, and in the USA Obama is calling for just that isn't he?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe - My off the cuff prediction is Putin and his ex-KGB mates and other unsavory types will drop a booty ton of cash into Cyprus in exchange for the natural gas being explored offshore right now by Noble. There has been lots of chatter over the last year of putting in a gas pipeline through Turkey (the sworn enemy) and in my minds eye that means one place to go...

MikeC - you are absolutely correct, the people here are 100% responsible for the situation but as with ALL things on this island its not their fault, they are innocent victims. This place really is a fourth world country.
Your prediction is exactly what Ive heard and might come true .
 
J

Joe

Guest
Who is "they"?

AFAIK the "official" position on inflation is that it is low - around 2-3% - see here - not the same thing as "no inflation" at all.

Inflation is fairly easy to measure - what is your data for saying they are lying?
They dont include energy like gas electric . they also dont count rising food prices or the smaller quanity of products . The drought has very little to do with rising food prices as much as the cost of energy . Those things we cant live without . 2% 3% thats a joke . My health care went up 10% within a year .
 
J

Joe

Guest
The real place inflation is happening at the moment is in luxury items, thousand pound watches, luxury yachts (double in price since 2008), cars...

The rest of it is hidden, e.g. horsemeat burgers instead of rising prices, 500ml bottles of wine, 8g tobacco, 6 rashers of bacon...

Energy prices, rent prices are massively on the increase in the UK - around 6-7% on rent and 10-15% energy while wages have faced real and hidden decline post 2008.

Then of course you have money printing on a global scale, the real question is why this hasn't caused more inflation than it has....

Usually a sign that inflation is happening is wage increases of course, and in the USA Obama is calling for just that isn't he?
Almost as if they are purposely trying to devalue our currency ??? or make it collapse ? :)
 

SeanDWalker

New Member
Almost as if they are purposely trying to devalue our currency ??? or make it collapse ? :)

they ARE absolutely trying to DE-value currencies, all across the world; the term currency war is now main-stream and heard often and for western economies, particularly those which need to ramp up exports quickly, problem is as we're all doing it it's been pretty pointless, 16% DE-valuation of UK currency within 4-5 years and only a 0.5% increase in exports . collapse on purpose? ...unsure, it's inevitable though; question is how quickly and how painful the transition is.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
SeanDWalker - you have to ask how much imports/exports would have changed without that devaluation?

Imports and exports are actually affected only by devaluation RELATIVE to other currencies - so if yuo major trading partners also devalued by 16% in the last few years then you would not expect there to be much difference because of your devaluation.

If you had NOT devalued, or if your partners had not devalued, then you would expect to see a major change.

This is part of the reason why the Chinese keep their curency pegged to the US$, and why the US is so persisted off about it - a "free trading" Yuan would be worth a lot more than the artificial peg (which is maintained by huge reserves of US cash) - and that would result in a lowering of Chinese exports to the US (and also the rest of the world!) - and hence greater unemployment and instability in china.

It is also why China will not use that huge US $ reserve of theirs as any sort of economic weapon against the USA - it is what enables them to presever teh value of their curency and the volume of their exports worldwide. The chinese would also, I presume, be keen to ensure the US$ remains the reserve currency of choice and for oil purchase - it is in line with their overall economic strategy.
 

SeanDWalker

New Member
MikeC, my point is pretty much the same as yours if i wasn't clear, currencies all over are losing value - a sort of race to the bottom, it's interesting when you see a graph of total inflation; you can see a sort of natural peaking of most economies, but china's goes up in very short vertical spikes in a consistent pattern; though it's not unknown china manipulate their currency in a very direct fashion, they still have the stomach to deny it lol.

Of all conspiracy fears this is my main one; current fiat currencies will begin collapsing, especially the dollar within our life-times - a pretty obvious fact in MY opinion (no fiat currency has survived out of literally thousands and thousands over history), the conspiracy part is that governments clearly know this can/will happen, the question is what they have planned in that circumstance, it wont be pretty either way but revolution will be on the cards during such a time - how they try to crush it, secure wealth for the 'nation' and the individuals who had all the power whilst owning billions of will be nothings will still probably have a big say in what happens (after all they will know all the secrets and the connections). I imagine war, 'cos ya know, THEY DID IT, not us! Lets get together and be angry and kill some peoples yeah!?

What suprises me most is that money being a faith system....why people haven't lost faith yet in the wake of scandals like LIBOR or indeed a raid on bank accounts, i guess it's because people don't realise how much such things do trickle down to them in one way or the other.
 

pseacraft

Active Member
We shall see what happens next...No details of what has been hammered through parliament late last night has been produced to the public...yet, that I can see. The bandwagoning public has been jumping from wagon to wagon all day yesterday...quite the carnival act for sure.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
MikeC, my point is pretty much the same as yours if i wasn't clear,

Fair enough - I think we differ in degree and end point though....

What suprises me most is that money being a faith system....why people haven't lost faith yet in the wake of scandals like LIBOR or indeed a raid on bank accounts, i guess it's because people don't realise how much such things do trickle down to them in one way or the other.

people retain faith because the currencies still work - you can still buy yuor groceries with $$'s or UKL's or Euros or whatever. You still get paid in them.

The actually value of $/L/E1 on its own is pretty much irrelevant as a measure of anything - the "race to the bottom" you are concerned about is actually completely unimportant.

What matters is the quantity of currency in a pay packet vs the price of goods.

If it costs $1 million ot buy a pint of milk that doesn't actually mater much if you are being paid $1 billion!!

200 years ago a salary of UKL500 per annum was a small fortune, less than 50 years ago I could go to the movies (child admission) for 10 cents. Now UKL500 is a good weekly wage, a child ticket to the movies here is $8......and yet movies are actually relatively cheaper because over 50 years wages have actually gone up more!!

Of course in the last couple of years wages haven't gone up much at all - I've lost out to inflation with 0% increases for a couple of years - but over the longer term (say 10-15 years) I've actually done much better than inflation and am earning more than twice what I was 15 years ago in $'s - whereas inflation in that time was 41% (according the the CPI calculator run by the local Reserve Bank - and whether you like central banks or not no-one is actually seriously arguing their figures)

Now I acknowledge that I am quite fortunate in that - not everyone here has done as well - but that same Reserve Bank calculator says wages have increased 59% over the same period. Recently headlines have been pointing out that wages are tracking up faster than inflation here again - not by much, 0.5% a year or less, but it is still happening.

The dropping nominal value of currency is beloved of various conspiracy theorists - but concentrating on it just makes them irrelevant.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
In 1981, my dad did something he had always wanted to do. Pay cash for a new car. He pointed out to my mom that he paid more for that car, than they had paid for our home in 1949. My dad's income was still proportional to what it was then.
 
J

Joe

Guest
We shall see what happens next...No details of what has been hammered through parliament late last night has been produced to the public...yet, that I can see. The bandwagoning public has been jumping from wagon to wagon all day yesterday...quite the carnival act for sure.
well good luck and stay safe :)
 

SeanDWalker

New Member
Generally though, we've gone from a middle income family in the 1800's surviving on a mans salary, supporting a family with a small staff (1-2) to two people having to work and still not being able to afford a home in present day as a norm.

House Prices have gone up 500% since 1982 - food and most items around 200-250%%, energy around 300%, wages about 300%. So while people are enjoying relatively cheaper food (which since 2007 has begun to increase fairly sharply), people are spending a much larger sum on rent and on buying a house; before the crash it was relatively easy to get credit thus the unfairness was sort of balanced out, but now unless the housing market crashes to realistic levels (that'd still be very bad short to mid-term for people, especially middle class+) then people will notice a greater disparity.

also if you start paying 1mil for milk and earn a 1bil a month as the norm in the US; that would make the entire currency system go bananas in the world - http://67.19.64.18/news/2010/11-11tc/1.jpg most countries are showing exactly this, a nearing vertical climb in the amount of currency put into circulation. Now, the average person hasn't seen at-least 11-12x the money in their pocket since 1980; they've seen only 3x whilst huge reserves of imaginary numbers rocket around between big finance generating more imaginary numbers whilst the average person now has nearly 4x the debt they would of had in 1980's.

There is nothing sustainable about what is happening, it's always been top heavy but now the ultra rich spend twice as much on hypercars and super yachts than they did in 2000 while we eat horse meat. :p

You might very well be better off MikeC, but i spend 50% of my income on rent for a one bed flat with garden. i came from a place where i spent 30% for similar, but there the job situation was around 100 to 1 job, here it's the average at around 60 to 1 and thank god i found work ¬_¬

I truly don't think it's conspiratorial to say we are in a depression right now, they keep banging on about a "triple dip recession" here as if that means ANYTHING. It's also not conspiratorial to see some rather alarming comparisons to 1936.

The main thing which surprises me, is that every other major financial crash i can think of they soon pumped money into military, WW2, cold war....at the minute the reverse is happening with cuts, BUT, come 2017, USA say they will have withdrew from many bases and have a lot more troops at home, UK has changed it's "territorial army" to the "reservists" and is on a big campaign to have i believe 30,000? more by 2017. New military hardware and tech, even microwave weapons i believe, purchased for around that time of completion. I vaguely remember China saying about improving it's military to a similar time scale. At a guess, things are going to kick off around then to encourage a re-structure.


I
 
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