COVID vaccine and VAERS discussion

trevor

Active Member
I've lost a friend recently about this vaccine. She asked me a question about how I feel about it. I told her I was vaccinated because I believe in the science and that we need to get this virus under control. She started spouting off different conspiracies as well. I asked her where she was getting her information from but she wouldn't tell me. My guess is from conspiracy podcasts and websites. And FB. When I asked if that was the case she never spoke to me again. People are very gullible so I don't fault her for it. I even said I don't care if she or anyone else gets vaxxed. Their choice. I've learned that when someone asks me my opinion to be prepared for a heated and insulting debate. Now I just say I don't care. It's not worth losing friends over and it's an argument where you cannot convince them otherwise so what's the point?
The vaccine itself does not stop the spread of the virus, we will never hit zero. its here to stay for good. All the vaccine does is prevent you from getting serious illness from the virus, or even prevents any symptoms from developing (though 30-40% of people infected with covid never develop symptoms) . it's going to be like the common cold and the seasonal flu. it's going to come in waves. Everyone is going to get it. you can't control a virus that has roughly R3 spread rate. Seasonal flus and common colds typically lie between R0.5 and R2.. Just be thankful it's not airborne Ebola. Though im sure someone will think of that as a bio weapon someday.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
VAERS has reported over 17,000 deaths linked to the vaccine
they haven't been linked to the vaccine. Vaers does not determine causality.
and 14,500 there [according to your link] are over the age of 65.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
VAERS has reported over 17,000 deaths linked to the vaccine, not to mention a ridiculous amount of cases of heart inflammation.
Article:

From the 10/15/2021 release of VAERS data:

Found 17,128 cases where Vaccine is COVID19 and Patient Died

Table

Age
Count
Percent
< 3 Years
4​
0.02%​
9-12 Years
1​
0.01%​
12-17 Years
27​
0.16%​
17-44 Years
612​
3.57%​
44-65 Years
1,982​
11.57%​
65-75 Years
2,409​
14.06%​
75+ Years
5,710​
33.34%​
Unknown
6,383​
37.27%​
TOTAL
17,128​
100%​


Case Details

  • A third of these death reports don't even have an age.
  • A VAERS report does not mean there is actually a link.
  • In the US, 414 million doses of the vaccine have been administered; 17128/414000000=0.004% or a 1 in 250.000 chance that your doctor is going to report your death on VAERS. This is age-dependent; if you'fe under 65, it's more like 1 in 400.000.
  • Meanwhile, 0.23% of Americans have died of Covid so far, that is 60 times worse.
  • Vaccine-induced heart inflammations occur less often and are less severe than Covid-induced inflammations.
You are getting scared because people are feeding you misleading information without context.

Article:
  • Project Dates:
    12/7/2007 to 9/29/2010
Every patient receiving a vaccine was automatically identified and for the next 30 days their health care diagnostic codes, laboratory tests, and medication prescriptions were evaluated for values suggestive of an adverse event.
SmartSelect_20211026-094207_Samsung Notes.jpg

The study you're citing is a) 10 years old, and b) has a couple of computer nerds classify anything that happens to a patient within 30 days after a vaccination as "adverse event", whether it makes sense or not, and regardless of whether the side effect is already known. (e.g. if the study says headaches are a common side effect, a doctor probably wouldn't report it, but it counts as "underreported" for the study.

Here's why you should never draw conclusions from VAERS:​

Article:
It’s designed so that anyone — parents, patients and health care professionals — can freely report any health effects that occur after a vaccination, according to the CDC, whether or not those effects are believed to be caused by the vaccine. The reports are not verified before they’re entered into the database. But anyone with a computer can search the data, download it, sort through the numbers and interpret them as they wish.
That makes VAERS fertile ground for vaccine misinformation that spreads widely on social media and elsewhere. Even though VAERS warns its users that reports should not be used on their own to determine whether a vaccine caused or contributed to a particular illness, many who tap into the system do that anyway, citing these government statistics to justify broader conclusions about what they consider the dangers of vaccines.
Offit explained that four sets of data are needed to measure whether a vaccine has caused or contributed to an adverse event: vaccinated people who experienced that problem; vaccinated people who didn’t have it; unvaccinated people who had the problem; and unvaccinated people who didn’t.

"What (VAERS) gives you is one piece of information: You had a vaccine, had a side effect," he said. "That in no sense tells you whether or not the side effect was caused by the vaccine. So it’s a noisy system that frankly is more frightening than helpful."
The fear is amplified by anti-vaccine groups and activists who use VAERS’s unverified, incomplete numbers to advance far-reaching claims, Offit said.


[Edit: I'm adding quotes for the references I am replying to.]
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
The vaccine itself does not stop the spread of the virus, we will never hit zero.
The first is wrong, and the second is not yet provable. To stop the virus, the vaccine only has to be effective enough (and administered widely enough) to get the transmission rate below 1, in conjunction with other measures like contact tracing and quarantine. Booster shot recipients having 95% protection at first is an encouraging data point.

Obviously if there's still a significant portion of vaccine refusers, this "never hit zero" becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, similar to how measles outbreaks are on the rise again due to anti-vaxxer parents.
 
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trevor

Active Member
they haven't been linked to the vaccine. Vaers does not determine causality.
and 14,500 there are over the age of 65.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
EXACTLY, thank you for bringing that up, I was hoping you would notice that and you did just that! because this is an issue i've wanted to talk about.....so if you drop dead of a heart attack 12 hours after taking the vaccine, it can't be proven that it was the vaccine that killed you. but if you have a brain aneurism or commit suicide but test positive for covid, covid gets put on your death certificate and you land on that big number that's floating around on google's and yahoo's headlines???????????? pretty convenient to the multi billion dollar cure. I kid you not,, i personally knew someone who died of an aneurysm last year despite having no symptoms, and they told his family it was due to covid after they tested him.. Another, my moms neighbor who's son committed suicide due to PTSD, tests positive and they put covid on his death certificate? if we can get some consistency on the rules, there wouldn't be as much skepticism . Example, this Coroner comes out and says 2 of her 4 "covid deaths" were people who had been shot? I've never believed conspiracy theoris but i've never seen so much logic and common sense thrown out the window with this covid "crisis", that makes me believe it's 100% political.


“these two people had tested positive for COVID but that’s not what killed them,” she said. “The gunshot wound killed them.”


The state of Colorado classifies COVID deaths in two ways: A death due to COVID, where it was the underlying cause, and a death with COVID, where there was a positive test but it wasn’t listed as the cause of death.

“Today, Colorado’s reporting 4,156 COVID deaths, these are actually deaths among cases. Then they show 3,230 deaths due to COVID, and so they’re differentiating that, but I think it can maybe go a little further and I think the policy could be changed,” said Richard Cimino, Grand County Commissioner for District One."

https://www.kmov.com/news/colorado-...cle_297e3550-4131-11eb-9f01-ffe3e11d0f46.html

And if you look on the vaers website, some of the deaths are detailed. i'll give 2 for example. A guy has a heart attack after his 1st dose the day later. Sure, i understand you can't prove that was caused by the vaccine, but then the patient below it, "Foaming from the mouth 4 minutes after injection, pronounced dead 2 hours later", yes. i think that one is clear. and again most of these reactions are not reported to VAERS.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
but if you have a brain aneurism or commit suicide but test positive for covid, covid gets put on your death certificate and you land on that big number that's floating around on google's and yahoo's headlines???????????? pretty convenient to the multi billion dollar cure. I kid you not,, i personally knew someone who died of an aneurysm last year despite having no symptoms, and they told his family it was due to covid after they tested him..

1. aneurisms are a known issue if you get covid.
2. you need to stop posting old links that break the no-click policy
3. i dont think most locals are counting non related covid deaths as covid deaths lately. (i added the bold this time)
Article:
This chart shows the number of COVID-19-associated deaths among Connecticut residents by date of death. COVID-19-associated deaths involve persons who tested positive for COVID-19 around the time of death (confirmed), and those who were not tested for COVID-19 whose death certificates list COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 infection as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death (probable).
 

trevor

Active Member
The first is wrong, and the second is not yet provable. To stop the virus, the vaccine only has to be effective enough (and administered widely enough) to get the transmission rate below 1, in conjunction with other measures like contact tracing and quarantine. Booster shot recipients having 95% protection at first is an encouraging data point.

Obviously if there's still a significant portion of vaccine refusers, this "never hit zero" becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, similar to how measles outbreaks are on the rise again due to anti-vaxxer parents.
vaccinated and unvaccinated carry the same amount of viral loads. Isreal has the highest vaccination rates and they've been exploding the past 2 months.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Example, this Coroner comes out and says 2 of her 4 "covid deaths" were people who had been shot? I've never believed conspiracy theoris but i've never seen so much logic and common sense thrown out the window with this covid "crisis", that makes me believe it's 100% political.

and your own old link belies what you are saying in your comment. (again bold is for emphasis)

Article:
December 2020 The state of Colorado classifies COVID deaths in two ways: A death due to COVID, where it was the underlying cause, and a death with COVID, where there was a positive test but it wasn’t listed as the cause of death.

“Today, Colorado’s reporting 4,156 COVID deaths, these are actually deaths among cases. Then they show 3,230 deaths due to COVID, and so they’re differentiating that, but I think it can maybe go a little further and I think the policy could be changed,” said Richard Cimino, Grand County Commissioner for District One.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
vaccinated and unvaccinated carry the same amount of viral loads. Isreal has the highest vaccination rates and they've been exploding the past 2 months.
actually the last month their numbers have been dropping like a stone. you should check current info before you post
 

trevor

Active Member
allergic reaction is a known side effect.
actually the last month their numbers have been dropping like a stone. you should check current info before you post
israel pic.PNG

September and August, also known as the 2 months before october, is considered "last 2 months". they hit their all time high as a country september 15th 2021.
 
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FatPhil

Active Member
israel pic.PNG September and August, also known as the 2 months before october, is considered "last 2 months". they hit their all time high as a country september 15th 2021.

Bad show. Don't try and mess with language, the last 2 months are September and October.
You *said* "exploding the past 2 months". Deirdre rightly called you on that.
Your own defence shows *plumetting* in the past 2 months, which is the exact opposite.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
..so if you drop dead of a heart attack 12 hours after taking the vaccine, it can't be proven that it was the vaccine that killed you
People get strokes and heart attacks all the time, and some randomly happen after vaccinations. So what they did is what my quote said, they looked at all the data (not just the scary reports), compared the normal risk of stroke to what people get after the vaccination, and found this (not the only study, but the first hit on Google):
Article:
Further analysis found that between days 15-21, after the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine, the risk of stroke caused by a blood clot in the brain (ischaemic stroke) was raised by 12%.
However, for those people with the virus, the risk of stroke was significantly raised from day 0 through to 28 days, with the risk doubled at 15-21 days and overall, was 12 times higher.
There would be an estimated 1,699 extra cases for every 10 million people after infection, while there would be only 143 extra cases after the first Pfizer jab.
[...]
Researchers said the risk of thrombocytopenia associated with the AstraZeneca drug was the same as having other, commonly used vaccines including the flu jag.
[...]
There was no increased risk of heart attack with either vaccine.

So, the heart attacks reported on VAERS are not actually linked to the vaccines, those people would've had that heart attack anyway even if they hadn't gotten vaccinated.

And the stroke risk of 143 in 10 million equates to 1 in 70.000, or 0.0014%. (Again, 0.23% of unvaccinated Americans have died of Covid.)
"Foaming from the mouth 4 minutes after injection, pronounced dead 2 hours later"
You missed the part where literally anybody can add anything to VAERS?
And you do not link this report.
but if you have a brain aneurism or commit suicide but test positive for covid, covid gets put on your death certificate and you land on that big number that's floating around on google's and yahoo's headlines????????????
Excess mortality (i.e. the above-average number of deaths) and reported Covid deaths match fairly well across the world. If anything, Covid deaths are under-reported. This has been debunked many times.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
vaccinated and unvaccinated carry the same amount of viral loads.
Yep, almost (factor of 2). But breakthrough infections occur much less frequently.
Article:
The 338 reported VBT cases represent 0.14% of Washoe’s vaccinated
population of across the study period, compared to a 2.54% rate in those unvaccinated.

In this case series analysis from Washoe County, Nevada, the rate of breakthrough
infections was more than 18-fold lower than the rate of infections among unvaccinated
individuals. Most importantly, rates of severe illness were low in vaccinated individuals. These
findings add to a growing body of data that can reassure the public on the real-world
effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines.

If you cut a replication rate of R=3 by a factor of 18, you're down to R=0.2, which easily stops the pandemic.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
allergic reaction is a known side effect.
Yes, but "foaming at the mouth after 4 minutes" is something someone made up, that doesn't happen; it is not a sign of an allergic reaction.

Allergic reactions are no reason to die if you are in medical care already.
Article:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advises people to stick around for 15 minutes after vaccination, and those with a history of other allergies for 30 minutes, so they can be treated immediately if they have a reaction.

The Alaska health worker, who doctors said had no history of allergies, was following that advice and got prompt care for a particularly severe reaction called anaphylaxis. She has recovered after a night of observation in the hospital — but won't be allowed a second vaccine dose.

When I got vaccinated, I didn't just show up and got the shot; I had to fill out a questionnaire about my medical history that included questions about allergies. I expect the doctor I talked to would have raised this issue before I got the shot if I had had any.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
September and August, also known as the 2 months before october, is considered "last 2 months". they hit their all time high as a country september 15th 2021.
Cases, yes; deaths, no.
Article:
Since the beginning of the fourth wave in June, almost 1,600 people have died, the majority in August and September, 631 and 668, respectively. Another 224 individuals have died from COVID-19 since the beginning of October.
The number of victims during the fourth wave has remained significantly lower than during the previous wave, when the virus killed 1,445 in January and 947 in February. But the past three months still have been among the deadliest since the pandemic began last year.
Most of the victims have been over the age of 60 and unvaccinated, the ministry reported.

The fact that Israel has more cases is due to the new delta variant, and probably due to a different level of restrictions made possible because most of Israel is vaccinated.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
yea my state has one of the highest vaccination rates (or the highest i forget) in the country and we went up those months too because delta hit. but unlike Israel we are still up. deaths though are still low compared to pre-vaccine though.
What is the level of restrictions compared to pre-vaccine? Have you had lockdowns again?

Life goes on almost as normal over here, with case numbers so high in places, we'd have been locking down a year ago.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Have you had lockdowns again?
not at all. they didnt even reduce the inside dining capacity this time. masks were suggested by the state , but mask requirements were left up to the towns themselves to decide.

There is still some caution by officials (like healthcare worker mandates, masks in schools ) but mostly i think people got pandemic fatigue this summer just as delta arrived. we have like 75% unvaccinated in our hospitals, and of the vaccinated they are by large very old or immunocompromised... which we all know the very old and the immunocompromised often dont mount any sufficient immune response to any types of vaccines. so while they are technically "vaccinated", i dont really consider them vaccinated
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Yes, but "foaming at the mouth after 4 minutes" is something someone made up, that doesn't happen; it is not a sign of an allergic reaction.
Article:
The patient was diagnosed with anaphylactic shock and treated appropriately.

Interventions:​

The patient experienced shortness of breath and was promptly administered 2 shots of 0.3mg Epi followed by a loss of consciousness (LOC) and a series of 4 consecutive seizures accompanied with LOC and urinary incontinence.
Seizures as a manifestation of anaphylaxis are rare with 1 study claiming 13% of cases of anaphylaxis having LOC and only 1.5% cases with loss of bladder or bowel control.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Article:
The patient was diagnosed with anaphylactic shock and treated appropriately.

Interventions:​

The patient experienced shortness of breath and was promptly administered 2 shots of 0.3mg Epi followed by a loss of consciousness (LOC) and a series of 4 consecutive seizures accompanied with LOC and urinary incontinence.
Seizures as a manifestation of anaphylaxis are rare with 1 study claiming 13% of cases of anaphylaxis having LOC and only 1.5% cases with loss of bladder or bowel control.
That case wasn't a vaccination, but actually allergy treatment. The condition is not described as "foaming at the mouth", but rather "loss of consciousness" and "seizures". The patient did not die. And besides having known allergies, they had a suspected anaphylactic event prior to that:
I grant you that anaphylaxis can, in rare cases, induce a convulsive seizure:
Article:
Tonic-clonic seizures cause a loss of muscle control, which can make it difficult to swallow or open the mouth. During a seizure, this excess saliva tends to pool in the mouth before being thrust through clenched teeth, mixing with oxygen and gases in the mouth, and developing a foamy appearance.

A medical professional would describe this as "seizure" and not as "foaming at the mouth".
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
That case wasn't a vaccination, but actually allergy treatment
anaphylactic shock is anaphylactic shock. the cause doesnt matter.
and seizures can come with foaming of the mouth.

i'm not saying i believe trevor's unsourced examples, i'm just saying it isnt outside the realm of possibility.
A medical professional would describe this as "seizure" and not as "foaming at the mouth".
trevor described it, not a doctor.
 

Keith Beachy

Senior Member
And if you look on the vaers website, some of the deaths are detailed. i'll give 2 for example. A guy has a heart attack after his 1st dose the day later.
Over 600,000 people in the US die from heart disease in a year. Did the person have heart disease, or high risk for heart disease? VAERS deaths could be car accidents, suicide, gun shot, old age, anything... not an indicator of vaccine caused deaths, but deaths that occur after someone had a shot. A heart related death after a vaccine shot for Covid, may be as likely as death by Covid complications. Heart disease and Covid seem to be killing about the same numbers. The deaths after vaccination due to car accidents should be lower than death after vaccination due to heart disease - based on stats.

Not logical for anti-vaxxers to use VAERS to support anything.

Have you reported the deaths you know/claim were blamed on Covid by mistake to the appropriate agencies - or what that hearsay and google stuff?
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
anaphylactic shock is anaphylactic shock. the cause doesnt matter.
this is a thread about vaccine misinformation and you bring a graphic scary account that happens to have nothing to do with vaccination but that everyone who reads your post will believe did

and yes the cause matters, and it matters that your patient had allergies and an anaphylactic episode to begin with, which wouldnt happen at a covid shot unless you lied to the doctor
(pro tip: never lie to your doctor)

my takeaway is that you don't care about misinformation as long as it fits your message
trevor described it, not a doctor.
if he didn't even quote VAERS, I have even less reason to believe it
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
which wouldnt happen at a covid shot unless you lied to the doctor
(pro tip: never lie to your doctor)

my takeaway is that you don't care about misinformation as long as it fits your message

oh bunk. not everyone knows if they are allergic to the specific ingredients in these (or any other) specific vaccines.

why are YOU spreading misinformation? yes seizures during anaphylaxis is rare, but you yourself posted evidence it can happen. Are you having some english-as-second-language misunderstanding again? You gave me a thumb down for saying -accurately- Israel has been doing much better this last month... so obviously you must be misinterpreting some things you read in english.
 
vaccinated and unvaccinated carry the same amount of viral loads. Isreal has the highest vaccination rates and they've been exploding the past 2 months.
What!!? Sure early on that was the case but have you actually looked at the numbers in the last few months they got overtaken a long time ago

eg data from
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

I live now in spain vaccination rate 81.24% but I'm from nz vaccination rate 75.03% which both are ahead of israel at 70.80%, yes israel is ahead of the US at 65.57% but mate israel hardly 'has the highest vaccination rates'.
Actually spain is now one of the countries with the highest vaccination rates and FWIW cases are very low ATM
 

econ41

Senior Member
Given the endemic problem of taking partial truth statistics out of context. This is today's effort by my state's health department to persuade people to be vaccinated. To be clear I fully agree with the goal of increasing vaccinations. For those for whom it is not genuinely, medically "contra-indicated".

BUT what about these numbers is the pro-vax misuse of stats to counter the anti-vax misuse of stats?? Because there is at least one big factor in the context that is not obvious.
vaxcmparison.png
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
You gave me a thumb down for saying -accurately- Israel has been doing much better this last month... so obviously you must be misinterpreting some things you read in english
"thumb down" means dislike, not disagree. trevor was clearly referring to the 4th wave in Israel, and instead of addressing his point about that, you niggled about that he was a month off. He was, but I still did not like that level of response.


yes seizures during anaphylaxis is rare, but you yourself posted evidence it can happen.
The severity and type of anaphylaxis still depend on the sex and age of the patient and on the agent that causes it, as well as on a history of prior exposure.

To equate someone whose allergies are so severe that they're seeking treatment with someone who doesn't even know they have allergies, and to imply that these people can expect the same type of severe reactions, is misleading.

Article:
Common signs and symptoms in anaphylaxis cases were generalized urticaria, diffuse erythematous rash, angioedema, respiratory and airway obstruction symptoms, and nausea.
I'm not seeing seizures on that list.

I found an older, pre-Covid study about "Clinical features and severity grading of anaphylaxis" that shows that the agent matters: "Older age, insect venom, and iatrogenic causes were independent predictors of severity." Basically, bee stings are the worst. Table 1 shows more reactions from antibiotics (145) and over-the-counter pain killers (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory, 32) than vaccine (4), which is equal to kiwi fruit (4).
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
BUT what about these numbers is the pro-vax misuse of stats to counter the anti-vax misuse of stats?? Because there is at least one big factor in the context that is not obvious.
Your source says, "Based on NSW data between August and October 2021, unvaccinated people were 24x more likely to be admitted to hospital with #COVID19.".
Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1453179667553394694


They scaled the hospitalisation rate per million, presumably per million people vaccinated or unvaccinated respectively, so that it correctly reflects individual risk.

I don't see any misuse.

 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
To equate someone whose allergies are so severe that they're seeking treatment with someone who doesn't even know they have allergies, and to imply that these people can expect the same type of severe reactions, is misleading.

i didn't imply they can expect it.
i'm saying outright it is plausible that there is a ONE in 414 million chance you might have an allergy you are unaware of which could lead to seizure/allergic reaction after vaccination. ALL medicines come with risks for a small portion of the population.

(granted perhaps this guy was prone to seizures, there is no proof the vaccine or allergic reaction caused it. )
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
i'm saying outright it is plausible that there is a ONE in 414 million chance you might have an allergy you are unaware of which could lead to seizure/allergic reaction after vaccination.
We're not talking about "allergic reaction", that chance is more like 2%, but would be something like a skin rash in most circumstances.

We're talking about a full-blown seizure. I am saying it's not plausible for anyone to experience this "out of the blue", if at all. I looked for evidence that this could happen, but did not find any.

I'm also saying it's not plausible that this would be entered into VAERS as "foaming at the mouth" instead of e.g. "untreated anaphylaxis with LOC, seizures, and death" by the physician signing the death certificate. The "foaming at the mouth" is fear-mongering, and agenda-driven, and thus likely to be made up.

It's also not plausible that the person would be vaccinated at a place that is not prepared to treat a severe allergic reaction that sets in minutes after the dose has been injected. The CDC recommendations on this are clear.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I'm also saying it's not plausible that this would be entered into VAERS as "foaming at the mouth" instead of e.g. "untreated anaphylaxis with LOC, seizures, and death" by the physician signing the death certificate
none said it was written by a doctor. family members can enter reports to vaers as well. which would account for why trevors link says 17,000 reports (outcome death) while cdc has the number around 8,500... multiple reports on same patient.

Article:
VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences. Anyone can submit a report to VAERS, including parents and patients.

Healthcare providers are required by law to report to VAERS:

......
Vaccine manufacturers are required to report to VAERS all adverse events that come to their attention.

Online reporting is strongly encouraged. Please report clinically important adverse events that occur after vaccination of adults and children, even if you are not sure whether the vaccine caused the adverse event.

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) accepts all reports, including reports of vaccination errors. Guidance on reporting vaccination errors is available if you have additional questions.

Knowingly filing a false VAERS report is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It's also not plausible that the person would be vaccinated at a place that is not prepared to treat a severe allergic reaction that sets in minutes after the dose has been injected. The CDC recommendations on this are clear.
why would you assume he wasnt treated at site? moved to hospital after initial treatment at clinic, recovered from the allergic reaction and then allegedly died 2 hours later of something else.

we have no idea the age or medical conditions/medication this patient was on as trevor did not give us a page number.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
here's the case:
(note: link is all covid vaccine/death/foam at mouth cases which equals 28 cases)
she was 96. died from asphyxiating vomit.

Article:
VAERS ID: 1533593 (history)
Form: Version 2.0
Age: 96.0
Sex: Female
Location: Foreign

Vaccinated: 2021-07-21
Onset: 2021-07-21
Days after vaccination: 0
Submitted: 0000-00-00
Entered: 2021-08-07
Vaccination / Manufacturer Lot / Dose Site / Route
COVID19: COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) / PFIZER/BIONTECH FD0889 / 1 - / -
Administered by: Other Purchased by: ?
Symptoms: Asphyxia, Body temperature, Cardio-respiratory arrest, Foaming at mouth, Multiple organ dysfunction syndrome, Pallor, Vomiting
SMQs:, Torsade de pointes/QT prolongation (broad), Anaphylactic reaction (broad), Acute pancreatitis (broad), Arrhythmia related investigations, signs and symptoms (broad), Shock-associated circulatory or cardiac conditions (excl torsade de pointes) (narrow), Torsade de pointes, shock-associated conditions (broad), Hypovolaemic shock conditions (broad), Toxic-septic shock conditions (broad), Anaphylactic/anaphylactoid shock conditions (broad), Hypoglycaemic and neurogenic shock conditions (broad), Convulsions (broad), Oropharyngeal conditions (excl neoplasms, infections and allergies) (narrow), Acute central respiratory depression (broad), Gastrointestinal nonspecific symptoms and therapeutic procedures (narrow), Hostility/aggression (broad), Hypotonic-hyporesponsive episode (broad), Generalised convulsive seizures following immunisation (broad), Respiratory failure (broad), Drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms syndrome (broad), Sepsis (broad)

Life Threatening? No
Birth Defect? No
Died? Yes
Date died: 2021-07-21
Days after onset: 0
Permanent Disability? No
Recovered? No
Office Visit? No
ER Visit? No
ER or Doctor Visit? Yes
Hospitalized? Yes, ? days
Extended hospital stay? No
Previous Vaccinations:
Other Medications: PREDONINE [PREDNISOLONE]
Current Illness:
Preexisting Conditions: Medical History/Concurrent Conditions: Anti-neutrophil cytoplasmic antibody positive vasculitis
Allergies:
Diagnostic Lab Data: Test Date: 20210721; Test Name: Body temperature; Result Unstructured Data: Test Result: 36.9 Centigrade; Comments: before vaccination.
CDC Split Type: JPPFIZER INC202100943885

Write-up: Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting; Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting; Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting; cardio-respiratory arrest; Complexion ill; Foaming at mouth; This is a spontaneous report from a contactable physician received from the Regulatory Authority. Regulatory authority report number is v21120990. A 96-year and 3-month-old female patient received BNT162B2 (COMIRNATY, Solution for injection), via an unspecified route of administration on 21Jul2021 at 14:17 (Batch/Lot Number: FD0889; Expiration Date: 30Sep2021) (at the age of 96-years-old) as dose 1, single for COVID-19 immunisation. Body temperature before vaccination was 36.9 degrees centigrade. Family history was unknown. Medical history included antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibody (ANCA)-associated vasculitis. Concomitant medications included prednisolone (PREDONINE) orally ongoing at 6 mg/day taken for an unspecified indication, start and stop date were not reported. On 21Jul2021, the patient experienced complexion ill and foaming at mouth at 14:22 (5 minutes after the vaccination). On 21Jul2021, the patient died with multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting. The course of the events was as follows: On 21Jul2021 at 14:17 (the day of vaccination), the patient received the coronavirus vaccination. At 14:22 (5 minutes after the vaccination), complexion ill was noted. The patient was found foaming at the mouth. At 14:25 (8 minutes after the vaccination), medical review was done in a sitting position. The carotid artery was not palpable at that time. At 14:28 (11 minutes after the vaccination), the reporting physician was called, went to hospital. The physician assessed the patient was in cardio-respiratory arrest. At 14:30 (13 minutes after the vaccination), cardiac massage was started by another person. At 14:33 (16 minutes after the vaccination), an ambulance was called. At 14:35 (18 minutes after the vaccination), an automated external defibrillator (AED) was used, but no improvement was obtained. The reporting physician classified the events as serious (hospitalization) and assessed the causality between the events and BNT162b2 as unassessable. Other possible cause of the event such as any other diseases included asphyxia due to vomiting. The patient died on 21Jul2021. It was not reported if an autopsy was performed. The reporting physician commented as follows: The information was from Primary care. There was a contact from the hospital where the patient was urgently taken, and it notified that the death cause was multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting.; Reporter''s Comments: The information was from Hospital. There was a contact from the hospital where the patient was urgently taken, and it notified that the death cause was multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting.; Reported Cause(s) of Death: Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting; Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting; Multi-organ failure resulting from asphyxia due to vomiting
 

Ravi

Active Member
When I got vaccinated, I didn't just show up and got the shot; I had to fill out a questionnaire about my medical history that included questions about allergies. I expect the doctor I talked to would have raised this issue before I got the shot if I had had any.

Same over here. You get (got) an invitation letter, and right before the appointment you have (had) to fill in a questionnaire and show legal ID. The questionnaire contained a section about allergy. Indeed, I had to tick the box, as I have quite a few allergies, so then you have to go in a differently coloured waiting que. So there they pay a bit more attention during the administration, and I suppose an ambulance is around the corner.

I am luckily not anaphylactic, so no problems for me. Never was afraid of the shot though.
 

econ41

Senior Member
When I got vaccinated, I didn't just show up and got the shot; I had to fill out a questionnaire about my medical history that included questions about allergies. I expect the doctor I talked to would have raised this issue before I got the shot if I had had any.
My vaccination and my wife's were arranged by and performed by our long term GP practice. Which implicitly managed both aspects, confirming ID and knowledge of medical history. Plus the Australian national health service Medicare has the ID info, access to medical history through the national, optional "My Health Record" data base and maintains the national registry of vaccinations giving access to proof of COVID awareness. I'm not aware of the checking processes adopted by the many "Walk In" vaccination hubs that have been established by State Health Agencies.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Here's a blog post about a part of the official process to approve the Pfizer vaccine for children, in case anyone is interested in the considerations that go into that. I'm quoting just one interesting tidbit for our discussion of adverse events:
Article:
Today VRBPAC (an external scientific advisory committee to the FDA) voted in favor of the Pfizer COVID19 vaccine for 5-11 year olds. VRBPAC was the second stop in a long process to get the vaccine authorized for emergency use.
[...]
There were 5 severe adverse events. None were linked to the vaccine:

  • Ingestion of a penny (1 person in the vaccine group)
  • Fractures (2 people in the vaccine group and 1 in the placebo)
  • Infective arthritis (one person in vaccine group)
There were no cases of myocarditis (heart inflammation), anaphylaxis or deaths among ages 5-11 in the clinical trials.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There were no cases of myocarditis (heart inflammation), anaphylaxis or deaths among ages 5-11 in the clinical trials.

Our (U.S) liberal leaning media is broadcasting that there really is no data from trials. But i will point out for readers that any viral infection can lead to myocarditis or MIS-C. including Covid.
also like to point out the Pfizer dose (5-11 years) in U.S anyway is 10mg vs the 12+years dose of 30 mg.

Article:
The company acknowledged it's likely the trials are too small to truly assess the risks of some rare side effects like myocarditis and pericarditis, which have been linked to the shots in adults and adolescents who have received the vaccine. But it cited safety surveillance conducted in Israel — which rolled out Pfizer's vaccine for adolescents nationwide earlier this year — that suggest rates of this kind of heart inflammation in younger children after the shots "are likely to be even lower" than in adults.


Article:
FDA scientists said Pfizer’s trial wasn’t large enough to detect rare side effects like myocarditis that have been observed after the second dose, particularly in younger men and teenage boys. Just over 1,500 children ages 5 to 11 received the vaccine in the Pfizer trial (another 750 received a placebo) and there were no cases of myocarditis.

.....
Kuritzkes pointed to data from an Israeli study of people ages 16 to 40 that found the risk of myocarditis is actually greater from COVID than it is from the vaccine. That study missed younger adolescents, however.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Our (U.S) liberal leaning media is broadcasting that there really is no data from trials.
I doubt that.
Because, you know, there was, and the article I quoted talked about it.
The main takeaway from the data is that the smaller dose still gives good protection, i.e. the vaccine does its job. And it confirms that the dosage is essentially safe.

The problem with children is that they rarely get severe cases of Covid, so even the rare chance of vaccine complications matters. From what we now know, these risks might balance out statistically, so decisions would be made on a case-by-case basis. For example, if there are immunocompromised people in the kid's household, it'd be a good idea to vaccinate the child to protect those people.
Article:
Michael Kurilla, the only person who abstained on the vote, issued a statement explaining his rationale. There were multiple factors that effectively boil down to the fact that he doesn’t think all children need this vaccine — many have already had Covid infections and have some immunity because of it — and he’s not convinced the vaccine’s protection will last long enough given the current schedule of two doses administered three weeks apart.

Some children clearly need this vaccine, said Kurilla, director of the division of clinical innovation at the National Institutes of Health’s National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences, but “I don’t see the need for ‘emergency use’ of this vaccine across the entire age group and would have preferred a more nuanced approach.”

[...]
[The panel voted "yes" on this:]

Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, do the benefits of the Pfizer- BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine when administered as a 2-dose series (10 micrograms each dose, 3 weeks apart) outweigh its risks for use in children 5-11 years of age?

[...]

Several panelists clearly worry that while they believe the vaccine should be an option, particularly for kids who are at risk, they’re not sure the data exist for a wide approval.

For now, with the data we currently have, refusing to get under-12-yo kids vaccinated may be a sensible choice, in the absence of reasons that Covid may be pose a special danger if that kid got it. But having the kid vaccinated is also sensible and helps stop the epidemic.

We'll know more when more kids have been vaccinated, and more data on side effects exists.

I'd agree that we don't have enough data (yet) to support a vaccine mandate for children, unless things get worse/stay bad.
 
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