COVID-19 Coronavirus current events

Rory

Senior Member.
the 12 year old...i cant find her age group, unless this is actually her and she wasnt yet 12 at the time.

Here is video of the panel set to start at the tale of the 12-year-old girl, Maddie de Garay:

Source: https://youtu.be/lkVN3KwDfvI?t=911

Her mother says: "Neither Pfizer, the FDA or the CDC has ever talked to us or attempted to."

The woman mentioned in the earlier post - Brianne Dressen - speaks next, from 16:50. She says she has "repeatedly asked and begged" the FDA and the CDC to acknowledge "thousands of reactions" and "they have refused".

"Your system is broken and you know it. You are constantly and persistently telling the public that your review of the data is thorough and your safety signalling systems are robust, when in reality there are huge gaps in your system every single step of the way. You are not taking care of those who have suffered severe adverse reactions - stop telling the public that you are. Your refusal to take action means there will be more like us. Take responsibility for your role in the suffering of good Americans who did their part by taking the vaccine and had no idea this could happen to them. Here's your proper informed consent: if you get Covid, you will get medical help. But I'm afraid to tell you: if you get this reaction - that reaction - that reaction - Maddie's reaction - Doug's reaction - you are on your own. The government won't help you. The drug companies won't help you. Your medical teams will have no idea what to do with you. Financially, you will be on your own."

he also says that companies should have to put money aside to help injured families financially. But every drug company does that.

Going by what these people are saying and what I've heard elsewhere - that the makers of the vaccine are protected from potential lawsuits due to adverse effects (as is the FDA) - I wonder if that's actually the case?

Here's what her husband had to say:

"My wife was severely neurologically injured by a single COVID vaccine in a clinical trial here in the United States last November. Because study protocol requires two doses, she was dropped from the trial, her access to the study app deleted. Her reaction is not described in the recently released clinical trial report."

https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-sc...asks-not-to-approve-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids

The list of those "vaccine injured" who took part in the expert panel:


So I guess there are a few claims that could be looked into there, such as that the data isn't accurate; that some sort of 'cover up' is taking place; that true information isn't being distributed; and that the "vaccine injured" are being "left in the lurch".

It's a big ol' can of worms, really, and would obviously need some decent research if threads were to be made to investigate such claims. But, anyways, taken at face value they seem like claims that ought to cause pause for thought (unless everything's simply "made up" or mistaken).
 

econ41

Senior Member
Going by what these people are saying and what I've heard elsewhere - that the makers of the vaccine are protected from potential lawsuits due to adverse effects (as is the FDA) - I wonder if that's actually the case?
That is a matter of political policy. Where does the Government allocate the risk. I recall some previous posts suggesting that there is US statutory provision indemnifying manufacturers and Govt. Agencies. I'm not aware of the full details in USA. I would agree that persons coming for vaccinations or any other medical procedures involving risk should be able to make "fully informed" decisions. And I'm aware of the difficulties that presents. Vaccination is not unique. Neither is COVID vaccination. Candidates for vaccination should be advised of both the great advantages/benfits and the very small but real downside risk.

As an aged person (79 at the time) I was eligible for Astra-zeneca vaccination and scheduled with my age group a week or two after the AZ associated blood-clotting issue became known. My choice simple. Better alive due to vaccine that unprotected because of an excessive fear about a minute side effect risk.
So I guess there are a few claims that could be looked into there, such as that the data isn't accurate; that some sort of 'cover up' is taking place; that true information isn't being distributed; and that the "vaccine injured" are being "left in the lurch".
The legitimate claim is that persons are not being "fully informed" of the relative for and against risks. A complex issue because, certainly here in AU, the official line is "discuss with your GP". And the question of where a GP should draw the line is not easy to answer. Nor is the other side - how much should persons "trust" their GP. My GP knows my professional background. And we dealt with the risk issue in about 6 seconds. The benfits far outweigh the risks. Many people cannot decide at that level of abstraction.
It's a big ol' can of worms, really, and would obviously need some decent research if threads were to be made to investigate such claims. But, anyways, taken at face value they seem like claims that ought to cause pause for thought (unless everything's simply "made up" or mistaken).
What claims? The claims that victims affected by side effects were not "fully informed"? Their claims that they were unaware of minimal downside risks which still become bigger issues if you lose the gamble and become one of the few affected by downside?

OR are we really saying that there is deliberate malicious mendacity and cover up taking place? I have no conspiracy theory streak in me. I'm a dedicated cynic when faced by CT style arguments - too many years debating in these on-line fora. ;) But if people are being vaccinated without sufficiently "fully informed" that is the problem. And deliberate mendacity could be one factor.

So anyone wantingto persuade me that there is a significant lot of deliberate cover-up will have a hard sell.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I recall some previous posts suggesting that there is US statutory provision indemnifying manufacturers and Govt. Agencies.
I found two.
Article:
SmartSelect_20211116-101631_Samsung Internet.jpg

There's a list of about a dozen diseases this currently applies to, including Covid.
Note that this covers development and testing of vaccines, but excludes "wilful misconduct", i.e. if the pharma company intentionally deceives people, they'd be liable for that.

Article:

42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22 - Standards of responsibility

(b)Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1)

No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings.

This law basically says that vaccine side effects aren't the manufacturer's fault (if they complied with regulations, had a proper package insert, etc.)

It's kind of like you can't sue the tool maker if you hit your thumb with a hammer: hammers are very useful, but somewhat unsafe, and there's no way to avoid it.
 

econ41

Senior Member
I found two.

There's a list of about a dozen diseases this currently applies to, including Covid.
Note that this covers development and testing of vaccines, but excludes "wilful misconduct", i.e. if the pharma company intentionally deceives people, they'd be liable for that.

This law basically says that vaccine side effects aren't the manufacturer's fault (if they complied with regulations, had a proper package insert, etc.)

It's kind of like you can't sue the tool maker if you hit your thumb with a hammer: hammers are very useful, but somewhat unsafe, and there's no way to avoid it.
Thanks. I remembered there was legislation - didn't have any record of link or citation.

A perfectly legitimate political policy decision. Whether or not it fits with some members political philosophies so it is one that I'm sure some members would object to. Their call. I have no difficulty with it but my political position is centralist on the AU political spectrum. Probably too far "Left" for a lot of Americans. ;)

but excludes "wilful misconduct", i.e. if the pharma company intentionally deceives people
Obviously.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
She says she has "repeatedly asked and begged" the FDA and the CDC to acknowledge "thousands of reactions" and "they have refused".
I would want to see that refusal. Quality journalism would quote the written refusal, or show a statement from an FDA or CDC spokesperson. If that's not shown, the report is one-sided.

Note also that with hundreds of thousands dead in thd US alone, "thousands of reactions" are really not a high price to pay for protection; though it does suck if it happens to you.

Removing participants from a study can skew the results, and it needs to be explained. A legitimate reason might be that the participant died from some other cause (e.g. car crash), or something else came up that prevented them from participating.
Dose 2 was not administered, and the participant was withdrawn from study intervention and remains in
study follow-up.
"withdrawn from study intervention" means the participant doesn't count as fully vaccinated, and they're not counted when the efficiency of the vaccine is determined. I read "remains in study follow-up" as "keeps being watched for side effects".

Again, if the reporting identifies people by name, they should also identify the clinical trial concerned, and then it's possible to see the impact. If a severe risk has been greatly underestimated, VAERS will indicate that, and someone will investigate.
 

econ41

Senior Member
Note also that with hundreds of thousands dead in thd US alone, "thousands of reactions" are really not a high price to pay for protection; though it does suck if it happens to you.
It's the same issue of fundamental risk management. The benefits far outweigh the downside risks.
 

econ41

Senior Member
I wouldn't call long-standing laws "political policy decisions".
Interesting. I don't see how the policy nature of a decision changes based on how long ago it was made. It's the same type of political policy decision involved with many aspects of insurance or negligence law. Which "deep pockets" should be required to carry the risk.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
and has received no help from the pharmaceutical company involved.
This is a half-truth. As I've posted above, the pharma companies are not liable (if they play by the rules), but people suffering from severe vaccine side effect can get help from the government instead.
Article:
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is a no-fault alternative to the traditional legal system for resolving vaccine injury petitions.
It was created in the 1980s, after lawsuits against vaccine companies and health care providers threatened to cause vaccine shortages and reduce U.S. vaccination rates, which could have caused a resurgence of vaccine preventable diseases.
Any individual, of any age, who received a covered vaccine and believes he or she was injured as a result, can file a petition. Parents, legal guardians and legal representatives can file on behalf of children, disabled adults, and individuals who are deceased.

This is how it would go normally. But Covid is different:
Article:
COVID-19 vaccines are covered countermeasures under the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP), not the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act) authorizes the CICP to provide benefits to certain individuals or estates of individuals who sustain a covered serious physical injury as the direct result of the administration or use of covered countermeasures identified in and administered or used under a PREP Act declaration. The CICP also may provide benefits to certain survivors of individuals who die as a direct result of the administration or use of such covered countermeasures.

Pretty much all of the PREP vaccines are listed on the CICP site:
Article:
A countermeasure is a vaccination, medication, device, or other item recommended to diagnose, prevent or treat a declared pandemic, epidemic or security threat. On the rare chance you suffered a serious injury, or the death of a loved one, from the administration or use of a covered countermeasure, you may qualify for benefits.
Federal declarations issued by the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services specify the countermeasures covered by the Program. Please review the “Covered Countermeasures” section of a declaration to determine the types of medical countermeasures that are covered by the CICP. Declarations have been issued for medical countermeasures against the following.
  • COVID-19

Reporting that a vaccine side effect sufferer received no help from the pharma company, but hiding that they can apply for government compensation, is misinformation.

P.S.: My own country has a similar government compensation program; I expect many do.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
don't see how the policy nature of a decision changes based on how long ago it was made.
you wouldn't call a law sending murderers to jail a "policy decision".
Political policy decisions are usually called those set by one side of politics; this encompasses most of the executive.
Laws that are endorsed by basically everyone aren't "political policy", they're just what's consensus.

Edit: "political policy decision" sound somewhat arbitrary; a law that's been in effect for decades isn't arbitrary, so I personally feel it shouldn't be called that.
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
She says she has "repeatedly asked and begged" the FDA and the CDC to acknowledge "thousands of reactions" and "they have refused".
CDC acknowledging vaccine reactions (heavily excerpted):
Article:
Serious adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination are rare but may occur.
For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of interest:

  • Anaphylaxis, a severe type of allergic reaction, following administration of COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Anaphylaxis can occur after any kind of vaccination.
  • Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) occurring after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of November 4, 2021, more than 15.7 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA have identified 50 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and later developed TTS, including 5 confirmed reports of death
  • After more than 15.7 million J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine doses administered, there have been around 250 preliminary reports of GBS identified in VAERS as of November 4, 2021.
  • Myocarditis and pericarditis occurring after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. As of November 4, 2021, VAERS has received 1,783 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 12–29 years who received COVID-19 vaccines.
  • . A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event that causes blood clots with low platelets, which has caused 5 deaths

FDA acknowledging side effects:
Article:
FDA is conducting intensive monitoring of COVID-19 vaccine safety in the U.S. using a variety of approaches. Based on available information, FDA strongly believes that the known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination greatly outweigh the known and potential risks of COVID-19. As part of our efforts to be transparent about our COVID-19 vaccine safety monitoring activities, FDA is posting summaries of the key safety monitoring findings on this page.

They're also listed on the package insert for the vaccine.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
"withdrawn from study intervention" means the participant doesn't count as fully vaccinated, and they're not counted when the efficiency of the vaccine is determined. I read "remains in study follow-up" as "keeps being watched for side effects".
obviously they wouldnt be counted for determination of efficiency, but im guessing they are very much counted for the safety of vaccine determinations. Which,.. unless i'm wrong... is the main purpose of clinical trials. To see if they are safe.

I've never been in a drug trial. There is probably documentation of general releases you must sign. Paper work that spells out the procedures, compensation, follow up? available somewhere online. I would think. Being in a trial is a choice. (and yes i feel very very sorry for Maddie)

As far as general vaccine injury, i know it's tough to get compensation (you need to prove a reasonable link etc) and i can't imagine it's a quick process. On the other hand, i would think eventually these covid suits will be worked out or next time there is an emergency vaccine situation noone will take it.



(i'm starting this quote with filing date as it's different from other vaccines)


*I'm also assuming these cases are pre federal or state mandate. If the government takes your choice away, i imagine they would then be liable for adverse reaction events.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Regarding the rights or wrong of pharma indemnity, I don't really have an opinion, other than feeling that if someone is injured while part of a trial they should at least be somewhat taken care of by the company behind the trial. Sharing the indemnity information was just in answer to Deirdre's question about whether vaccine companies would have to face lawsuits and/or pay compensation.

Are we really saying that there is deliberate malicious mendacity and cover up taking place?

Brian Dressen seems to be saying that:


So perhaps there's a specific claim there that could be investigated. Maybe I'll start a thread and we can see if we can find her reaction included in the trial report.

I would want to see that refusal. Quality journalism would quote the written refusal, or show a statement from an FDA or CDC spokesperson. If that's not shown, the report is one-sided.

I think that's a good point (even if she's not a journalist), and it seems clear that the FDA and CDC do report potential adverse reactions, so I wonder what she was wanting to say?

Here's where she talks about the supposed "refusal":


So it seems they're not doing something she feels they should - but what is that exactly? Is it sharing more information about potential adverse reactions, or is it in doing something specific for the specific people involved?

I think it's important to note that she isn't an anti-vaxxer, even though she has said she won't vaccinate her children because "if my kids have this same genetic makeup, there is the high potential now that the same [severe neurological injury] could happen to them.”

Also important to note: the panel was chaired by Senator Ron Johnson, who has come in for severe criticism due to his controversial and often mistaken views around Covid-19 and the vaccine.

Note also that with hundreds of thousands dead in the US alone, "thousands of reactions" are really not a high price to pay for protection; though it does suck if it happens to you

For sure. And it doesn't seem to be that this is their beef, but rather they aren't being supported, acknowledged, or cared for - as well as being left with enormous medical bills.

Perhaps what I need to do is find out what the beef is, exactly. Perhaps part of it stems from comments like these, from their own president:

Which is not only wrong as far as the vaccine's impact on Covid goes, but ignores that the vaccine itself occasionally puts people into hospital and kills them.

Yes, it's perhaps "a small price to pay" when considering the bigger picture. But it's an issue that shouldn't be ignored or pretended away.

The pharma companies are not liable (if they play by the rules), but people suffering from severe vaccine side effect can get help from the government instead [through the CICP]. Reporting that a vaccine side effect sufferer received no help from the pharma company, but hiding that they can apply for government compensation, is misinformation.

I read about the CICP yesterday: it's reported as being "little-known", "very hard to use", and that "the bar for compensation is very high".

Between 2010 and Covid there were 499 claims filed, with the majority (410) being for the H1N1 vaccine. Of those 499, only 29 (5.8%) were paid out.

As of October 1st, 2021 there were 3,158 claims related to Covid-19 countermeasures, and, understandably, zero of them had been paid out.

Here are some sources about the CICP, including their own data:

https://www.11alive.com/article/new...gated/85-aa5f4d8b-dc04-49a0-bc0a-5a540f259ffc

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data

I've taken their Covid-19 countermeasure table and redrawn it to count when each countermeasure is included in a claim. The most commonly mentioned are as follows:

1637082855573.png

Note: I think it would be difficult to accurately extrapolate from this data. Problems I imagine would include: fraudulent/mistaken claims; claims not made because people were unaware of the CICP; claims not paid because convincing evidence could not be obtained; injuries not identified as being caused by countermeasure due to misdiagnosis/medical error/reticence to make such a diagnosis; etc etc.

CDC acknowledging vaccine reactions (heavily excerpted):
  • Anaphylaxis
  • Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS)
  • GBS
  • Myocarditis and pericarditis
  • A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

Here is a list of injuries allegedly caused by a Covid-19 vaccine, as taken from the CICP website:

Abdominal Pain, Aches, Acute Brain Disorder, Acute Congestive Heart Failure, Acute Hearing Loss, Acute Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy, Acute ITP, Acute Kidney Injury, Acute Non-traumatic Kidney Injury, Acute Pancreatitis, Acute Renal Failure, Acute Saddle Pulmonary Embolism, Addison's Disease Crisis, Adhesive Capsulitis, Advanced Tendinopathy, Adverse Reaction, Agitation, AIDP, Allergic Reaction, Alopecia Areata, AMAN, Anal Fistulas, Anaphylactic Reaction, Anaphylactic Shock, Anaphylaxis, Anemia, Angina, Angioedema, Ankle Pain, Anxiety, Appendicitis, Arm and Facial Paralysis, Arm and Hand Numbness, Arm and Leg Tingling, Arm and Neck Injury, Arm and Shoulder Injury, Arm Injury, Arm Leg and Breast Pain, Arm Numbness, Arm Numbness and Pain, Arm Pain, Arm Pain and Numbness, Arm Pit and Chest Swelling, Arm Pit Swelling, Arrhythmia, Aseptic Meningitis, Asthma, Asthma Attack, Atrial Fibrillation, Atrial Flutter, Autoimmune Disease, AV Block, Back Pain, Back Pain and Lumps, Bacterial Pneumonia, Bad Dreams, Balance Issues, Bell’s Palsy, Bilateral Eustachian Tube Dysfunction, Bilateral Neuropathy, Bleeding, Bleeding Ulcers, Blindness, Blisters, Bloating, Blood Clot, Blood Clots, Blood Clots Enlarged Lymph nodes, Blood Pressure, Blood Pressure Drop, Blood Pressure Spikes, Blood Vessel Break in Brain, Blurred Vision, Body Ache, Body Aches, Body Pain, Bone Pain, Bowel Movement Issues, Bowel Obstruction, Brachial Neuritis, Brachial Plexopathy, Brain Aneurysm, Brain Bleed, Brain Bleeding, Brain Fog, Brain Hemorrhage, Brain Inflammation, Breakdown of Vital Organs, Breathing Abnormality, Breathing Difficulty, Broken Ankle, Broken Back, Broken Leg & Ankle, Broken Nose, Broken Teeth, Bronchitis, Bruising, Burning, Burning Mouth, Burning Sensation, Burns on Skin, Bursitis, Bursting Blood Vessels, Buzzing, C. Diff. Infection, Calculus of Kidney, Cardiac Arrhythmia, Cardiac Atrial fibrillation, Cardiac Issues, Cardiogenic Shock, Cardiomyopathy, Cardiovascular, Cellulitis, Central and Peripheral Demyelinating Syndrome, Central Retinal Artery Occlusion, Central Retinal Vein Occlusion, Central Venous Sinus Thrombosis, Central Venus Thrombocytopenia, Cephalic Vein Clot, Cheek Bone & Teeth Fractures, Chest and Throat Pain, Chest Cavity Inflammation Around Heart, Chest Pain, Chest Pains, Chest Pressure, Chest Tightness, Chest-Neck Pain, Chills, Chin Laceration, Chipped Teeth, Chronic Bleeding Disorder, Chronic Cough, Chronic Fatigue, Chronic Headaches, Chronic ITP, Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, Chronic Respiratory Failure, CIDP, Cognitive Loss, Cold Sweat, Cold Sweats, Cold symptoms, Colitis, Collapsed Lung, Coma, Concussion, Confusion, Congestion, Congestive Heart Failure, Constant Diarrhea, Constant Pain and Numbness in Fingers and Arm, Constipation, Constricted Arteries, Convulsions, Cord Compression Myelopathy, Cornea Transplant, Cough, Coughing, Coughing Blood, COVID Arm, COVID Pneumonia, COVID-19, Cramps, Creutzfeldt-Jacobs, Critical Illness Myopathy, Crohn’s, Cystic Nodule, Deafness, Deafness (Right Side), Death, Decreased Heart Rate, Decreased Platelet Levels, Decreased Potassium, Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT), Dehydration, Delusions, Depression, Dermatomyositis, Diaphoretic, Diarrhea, Difficulty Breathing, Difficulty Breathing and Speaking, Difficulty Concentrating, Difficulty Speaking, Difficulty Swallowing and Chewing, Difficulty Walking, Disorientation, Disoriented, Diverticulitis, Dizziness, Do Daily Routines, Double Vision, Drooling, Drowsiness, DVT, Dysphagia, Ear Pain, Ear Pain and Pressure, Ear Popping, Eczema, Edema, Elbow Injury, Elevated AST, Elevated Blood Pressure, Elevated Blood Pressure and Heart Rate, Elevated Blood Pressure and Pulse, Elevated Heart Rate, Elevated Intracranial Pressure, Elevated Troponin, Emotional Distress, Encephalitis, Encephalopathy, Enlarged Heart, Enlarged Lymph Nodes, Eosinophil, Eosinophilia, Erythema, Erythema Nodosum, Esotropia, Exacerbation of Pre-Existing Condition, Exhaustion, Extreme Arm and Leg Pain, Extreme Body Aches, Extreme Dizziness, Extreme Fatigue, Extreme Joint Pain and Swelling, Extreme Leg Weakness, Extreme Nausea, Extreme Pain, Extreme Swelling, Extreme Weight Loss, Eye Stroke, Face Drooping, Face Head and Nose Injury, Face Spasms, Face Swelling, Facial Distortion, Facial Droop, Facial Numbness, Facial Pain, Facial Paralysis, Facial Spasms, Facial Spasms and Paralysis, Facial Swelling, Facial Swelling and Burning, Facial Swelling and Numbness, Fainted, Fainting, Faintness, Fast Heartbeat, Fatigue, Feeling Faint, Feeling Ill, Fever, Flare Up of Rheumatoid Arthritis, Flu Like Symptoms, Fluid in Heart and Lungs, Fluid In Lungs, Fluttering, Foaming at Mouth, Foggy Thinking, Fried Shoulder and Leg Muscles, Frozen Shoulder, Gastritis, GBS, GBS like symptoms, Generalized Joint Pain, Grand Mal Seizure, Gross Hematuria, Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), Gynecologic Issues, Hallucinating, Hallucinations, Hand & Foot, Hand and Arm Numbness, Hand and Arm Numbness and Tingling, Hard to Concentrate and Focus, Head and Neck Pain, Head Body Injury, Head Injury, Headache, Headache Swelling, Headaches, Hearing Loss, Heart and Blood Pressure Issues, Heart Attack, Heart Failure, Heart Fibrillation, Heart Fluttering, Heart Inflammation, Heart Irregularities, Heart Issues, Heart Murmur, Heart Palpitation, Heart Palpitations, Heart Problems, Heart Racing, Heart Strain, Heartburn, Heavy Limbs, Heavy Menstrual Flow, Heavy Vaginal Bleeding, Hematoma, Hemorrhagic Stroke, Herpes Zoster, Hidradenitis Suppurativa, High Blood pressure, High Blood Pressure, High Blood Pressure and Heart Rate, High Heart Rate, High Pitched Sound in Ears, Hives, Hot Flashes, Hypercoagulability, Hypersensitivity, Hypertension, Hypoalbuminemia, Hypoglossal Nerve Palsy, Hypotension, Hypothyroidism, Idiopathic, Idiopathic Intracranial Hypertension, Immune Thrombocytopenia Purpura (ITP), Inability to Breathe and Walk, Inability to Focus, Inability to Stand, Inability to Stand or Walk, Inability to walk, Incoherent, Increased Heart Rate, Indigestion, Infectious Cellulitis, Inflamed Lymph Nodes, Inflamed Rotator Cuff, Inflammation, Inflammation in Hands and Wrists, Inflammation in Legs, Inflammatory Arthritis, Inflammatory Myelitis, Influenza A, Injection Site Injury, Injury to Face, Insomnia, Intense Chest Pains, Internal Bleeding, Interstitial Lung Disease, Irregular Heart Beat, Irregular Heart Rate, Irregular Heart Rhythm, Ischemic Colitis, Ischemic Stroke, Ischemic Tachycardia, Itching, ITP, Jaundice, Jaw, Chest and Neck Pain, Joint and Muscle Pain, Joint Inflammation, Joint Pain, Joint Pain and Swelling, Ketoacidosis, Kidney Damage, Kidney Injury, Kidney Stones, Knee and Leg Pain, Knots Under Skin, Lack of Sleep, Left, Left Arm and Hand Numbness, Left Perilymphatic Fistula, Left Shoulder Capsulitis, Left Side Numbness, Left Side Paralysis, Left Side Weakness, Left Ventricular Cardiomalogy, Leg and Knee Pain, Leg Bruising, Leg Cramps, Leg Pain, Leg Swelling, Leg Weakness, Lesions, Lethargic, Lethargy, Leukoycto Clastic Vasculitis with Dermal Neutrophil, Lichen Planus, Light Headedness, Light Sensitivity, Lightheaded, Lightheadedness, Lipoma of Subcutaneous Tissue (Left Arm), Liver Damage, Liver Injury, LLE, Loss of Appetite, Loss of Balance, Loss of Body Functions, Loss of Eye Sight, Loss of Sensation, Loss of Sensation in Extremities, Loss of Sleep, Loss of Taste, Appetite, Weight, Loss of Voice, Lost Consciousness, Lost Control of Bladder, Low Blood Pressure, Low Blood Sugar, Low Energy, Low Heart Rate, Low Hemoglobin, Low O2 Saturation, Low Oxygen, Low Platelet Count, Low Platelets, LUE Weakness, Lung Infarction, Lung Infection, Lung Nodules, Lymph Node Mass, Malaise, Memory Loss, Meningitis, Mesenteric Venous Thrombosis, Metal Taste in Mouth, Migraine, Migraine Headache, Migraine Headaches, Migraine like Pain, Migraines, Mild Heart Attack, Miscarriage, Moderate Osteoarthritis, Mouth Blisters, Mouth Infection, Mouth Injury, Mucus, Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome, Muscle Ache, Muscle Aches, Muscle and Joint Pain, Muscle Atrophy, Muscle Cramps, Muscle Fatigue, Muscle Pain, Muscle Spasms, Muscle Tension, Muscle Weakness, Myasthenia Gravis Disease, Myocarditis, Myoclonus Seizures, Myopericarditis, Myositis, Nausea, Neck and Shoulder Pain, Neck Pain, Necrotizing Pneumonia, Nerve Damage, Nerve Pain, Neurologic, Neurologic Disorder, Neurologic Symptoms, Neurological Damage, Neurological Reaction, Neuropathy, Night Sweats, Non-Ischemic Cardiomyopathy, Non-specific Paresthesia, Non-sustained Ventricular Tachycardia, Nose Bleed, Numbness, Numbness and Aches, Numbness and Bruising, Numbness in Feet, Numbness on Entire Left Side, Numbness on Neck, Head, Face and Left Hand Fingers, Ongoing Confusion, Onycholysis, Open Wound, Optic Migraine, Organ Failure, OVA, Pain, Pain in Shins and Ankles, Pain in Shoulders and Knees, Pain in Stomach and Legs, Pain Neck, Chest, Back and Arm, Pain Throughout Body, Palpitation, Palpitations, Palsy, Pancolitis, Pancreatitis, Pancytopenia, Panic Attack, Paralysis, Paralyzed Vocal Cord, Paresthesia, Parsonage Turner Syndrome (PTS), Passed Out, Pericardial Effusion, Pericardial Enhancement, Pericarditis, Pericardium Cyst, Peripheral Neuropathy, Petchiae, Petechiae, Phantosmia, Photo Sensitivity, Pneumonia, Poisoning by Vaccine and Biological Substances, Polymyalgia Rheumatica, Polymyositis, Polyneuropathy, Post Stroke Recudence, Posterior Leukoencephalopathy, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), Pressure in Head and Brain, Pressure in Head and Neck, Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis, Psoriasis, Psychiatric Breakdown, Psychosis, Ptosis, Pulmonary Embolism, Pulmonary Embolism (PE), Queasy Feeling, Quincke Edema, Racing Heartbeat, Radial Artery Thrombus, Rapid Heart Beat, Rapid Heart Rate, Rapid Heartbeat, Rare Blood Disease, Rash, Rashes, Recurring Epistaxis, Redness, Renal Failure, Respiratory Failure, Respiratory Problems, Retina Puckering, Rhabdomyolsis, Rhabdomyolysis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Right Bundled Branch Block, Right Dural Venus Thrombosis, Right Leg Numbness, Right Limb Weakness, Right Perilymphatic Fistula, Right Side Numbness, Right Side Paralysis, Robust Reactions, Rotator Cuff Tear, Ruptured Tendon, Seizure, Seizures, Sepsis, Septic, Septic Thrombophlebitis, Serum Reaction, Severe Abdominal Pain, Severe Allergic Reaction, Severe Anaphylaxis, Severe Aplastic Anemia, Severe Arm Pain, Severe Back, Neck and Head Pain, Severe Bone and Joint Pain, Severe Bruising, Severe Burning Sensation, Severe Chest and Abdominal Pain, Severe Chest and Head Pain, Severe Chest Pain, Severe Chest Pressure and Pressure, Severe Chills, Severe Chronic Pain, Severe Dizziness, Severe Fatigue, Severe Flu Like Symptoms, Severe Groin, Knee, Elbow and Hand Pain, Severe Head and Neck Pain, Severe Headache, Severe Headaches, Severe Hypertension, Severe Inflammation, Severe Itching, Severe Joint Pain, Severe Kidney Pain, Severe Leg and Back Pain, Severe Leg Pain, Severe Lower Back Pain, Severe Migraines, Severe Muscle Pain, Severe Nausea, Severe Pain and Fatigue, Severe Pain and Weakness in Shoulder and Arm, Severe Rash, Severe Rashes, Severe Reaction, Severe Tinnitus, Severe Vaginal Bleeding, Severe Vasculitis, Severe Vertigo, Shaking, Shingles, Shivering, Shocking Sensation in Arteries or Veins, Short Term Memory Loss, Shortness of Breath, Shortness of Breathe, Shoulder, Shoulder Injury, Shoulder Pain, Sinusitis, SIRVA, Sixth Nerve Palsy, Skin and Gum Sensitivity, Skin Discoloration, Skin Lesions, Skin Peeling, Skin Rash, Skull Fracture, Slurred Speech, Small Fiber Neuropathy, Sore Armpit, Sore Knees, Sore Muscles, Spasms, Spike Blood Pressure, Spinal Meningitis, Splenectomy, Spongiotic Dermatitis, Stevens Johnson Syndrome, Stiff Neck, Stroke, Stroke Like Symptoms, Subacromial Bursitis, Subarachnoid Hemorrhage, Subcutaneous Sarcoidosis, Subdural Hematoma, Sudden Deafness, Sudden Hearing Loss (SSHL), Sulphur Taste and Smell, Supraclavicular Lymphadenopathy, Supraventricular Tachycardia, Sweating, Swelling, Swelling and Pain in Lower Extremities, Swollen and Inflamed Lymph Nodes, Swollen Ankle, Swollen Feet, Arms and Tongue, Swollen Finger, Swollen Hands, Swollen Legs, Swollen Lymph Nodes, Swollen Tongue, Swollen Tongue, Plate and Gums, Symptoms of Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome, Syncope, Synovitis, Syringomyelia, Systemic Inflammation, Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (SIRS), Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, Tachycardia, Tendinosis, Throat Inflammation, Throat Swelling, Throat Tongue Hand and Arm Swelling, Thrombocytopenia, Thrombocytosis, Thrombosis, Thrush, Thyroid Storm, TIA Stroke, Tightness In Chest, Tingling, Tingling in Face, Tingling in Hands and Feet, Tinnitus, Tiredness, Tongue Swelling, Tongue Tingling, Tonsil Edema, Tonsillitis, Transient Global Amnesia, Transverse Myelitis, Traumatic Brain Injury, Tremors, Trigger Finger, Trouble Breathing, Trouble Swallowing Food, Trouble Thinking, TTS, Ulcerative Colitis, Unable to Breathe, Unable to Walk, Unable to Walk or Stand, Uncontrollable Blood Pressure and Heart Rate, Uncontrollable Laughter, Unresponsive, Urticaria, UTI, Vaccine Induced Axillary Lymphadenopathy, Vasculitis, Vasovagal Syncope, Vertigo, Vestibular Neuritis, Vision Distortion, Vision Loss, Vision Problems, Vision Weakness, Vocal Cord Dysfunction, Vocal Cord Paralysis, Vomiting, VTE, Walk, Weakness, weakness, Weakness in Arm, Weakness in Legs, Weight Loss, Wheezing, Xerosis

Among those are 60 claims for "death", which we can compare with the CDC quote saying no deaths causally linked to COVID-19 vaccines, however 5 possible deaths linked to the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS.

Also perhaps comparable are the 250 reports of GBS at VAERS with 36 claims involving GBS at CICP, and the 1783 reports of myocarditis and pericarditis (only among 12-29 year-olds) with around 60 claims at CICP.

These ratios would seem to indicate that many, many times more people are reporting to VAERS than CICP; that the CDC figures on deaths are both vastly understimated and extremely optimistic; and that the claims made to CICP are really just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
quote from alleged vaccine victim:
"The heads of the NIH, FDA and CDC have known first hand about my case and thousands of others. These direct reports began as early as last December. I, along with several injured physicians, continued to reach out to the FDA through emails, phone calls. We did video conferences with Peter Marks and Janet Woodcock - constant emails with Janet Woodcock directly. We have literally asked and we have begged, repeatedly, for them to acknowledge these reactions. They declined. They know that their lack of acknowledgement has created insurmountable barriers to receive medical care from doctors who rely on these agencies for information.

i have a couple of issues with this bit. 1.I dont see why they would directly acknowledge it. They likely don't know for sure if the issue is vaccine related, and even if they did think it likely you dont give someone a written acknowledgement. That is an admission. The lawyers would lose their minds. Rightfully so.

I understand the woman's frustration, but what she is wanting seems a bit naieve to me.

2. "insurmountable barriers"? to what? her doctors can choose to believe her and see what ingredients are in the vaccine or how mrna works. why would Pfizer or the cdc for that matter know more about how to treat her then any other doctor?

and does that even matter to the point of "insurmountable"? doctors treat the symptoms and do blood tests and mri scans and they do what they can with what they see. i was wicked sick once for months, tests didnt really show anything in absolutes, doctors had no idea what it was, ergo they had no idea what to do. We tried different things, if it made it worse we stopped, if it made it better we continued it..

One young doctor (he was such a cutie, all serious about his calling) told me "They call it a "Practice" for a reason.

They dont even really know how to treat covid. why would they magically know how to treat her neurological issues?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
as far as general population not researching vaccine risks (as i did).. the doctor really has no excuse, she should know this stuff... and claiming "they didnt know", i'm not sure what the answer is. It's complicated.

Article:
But the FDA’s belief that more risk information leads to greater concern about risk is misplaced. Across six experiments, comprising more than 3,000 U.S. participants, we reliably found that when drug commercials included all side effects (both major and minor), in line with the FDA’s regulations, consumers judged the overall severity of the side effects to be lower than when they were exposed to only major ones. This lowered assessment of severity led consumers to prefer the drug more—and made them willing to pay more for it.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Let's try and find out what she actually wants/needs/expects.

A little more about that:


Sounds like a tough one. It sounds to me like she wants both the public and the medical services to be aware that having the vaccine can cause serious effects - perhaps that's already out there? - and for doctors to immediately know what these effects are and how to treat them - and maybe that's just not realistic.

But perhaps I'm reading it wrong?
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Some more about compensation possibilities for Americans injured by the vaccine:


tl;dr? It sounds hard to get one's medical bills paid; that CICP place is "inscrutable" and understaffed; and the more promising National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program won't take claims for Covid, but rather redirects you back to the CICP:

1637099764850.png

Doesn't seem to great to me.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
Just in time for the holidays :) (and conspiracy theorists think "officials" are smart enough to pull off 9/11 and chemtrails!)

Article:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The District of Columbia will lift its indoor mask requirement starting next week, as local COVID-19 infection cases continue to trend downward.

Starting Monday, Nov. 22, masks will no longer be required in many indoor spaces.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Regarding the rights or wrong of pharma indemnity, I don't really have an opinion, other than feeling that if someone is injured while part of a trial they should at least be somewhat taken care of by the company behind the trial.
The problem with this is that liability may discourage companies from creating vaccines quickly; but in an emergency (which is what PREP was made for) it's better for everyone to get a vaccine quickly.
Nobody is mandated to participate in a trial.



Among those are 60 claims for "death", which we can compare with the CDC quote saying no deaths causally linked to COVID-19 vaccines,
What's probably going to happen then is that most of these claims are going to be rejected.
The problem is as always that people die randomly all the time, and some of these deaths happen shortly after a vaccination. If there aren't a lot more deaths than normally expected, it's going to be difficult to notice a link (but thankfully that also means few people died from it).

It sounds to me like she wants both the public and the medical services to be aware that having the vaccine can cause serious effects - perhaps that's already out there? - and for doctors to immediately know what these effects are and how to treat them - and maybe that's just not realistic.
Well, part of this is keeping patients on site 15-30 minutes after a vaccination so that a severe allergic reaction can be treated immediately.

For other effects, you'd just go to your doctor because you're sick, and treatment won't differ much regardless of what caused it. Whether you got GBS from an infection or a vaccination won't matter much.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
It sounds hard to get one's medical bills paid; that CICP place is "inscrutable" and understaffed; and the more promising National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program won't take claims for Covid, but rather redirects you back to the CICP:
Article:
The underfunded, and understaffed, CICP, which is only set up to handle 50 claims a year, denying 9 out of 10 of those, is a legal “Black Hole” for people who have suffered severe adverse reactions to COVID-19 vaccinations.
A bipartisan group of Congressional Representatives has introduced a bill called the “Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund Modernization Act (HR-3655), which would bring COVID-19 vaccine injury claims under the fairer, more transparent, “Vaccine Injury Compensation Program,” the same compensation already used for all other, regularly-administered, vaccines – like the Flu vaccine, and the Measles vaccine.

If you've looked at the list of diseases that PREP applies to, most are rather exotic and rare, but Covid is obviously quite different. So the US is either going to have to expand CICP staff (maybe they did?), or pass this bill; unfortunately, HR 3655 was considered in the health subcommittee on June 15th and seems to have died there.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Which,.. unless i'm wrong... is the main purpose of clinical trials. To see if they are safe.
The main purpose of clinical trials is to see if a medication is effective.
Preceding studies should already have established that it's reasonably safe.

A secondary purpose of the clinical trial is to provide better safety data, so that a risk/benefit analysis can be made. But safety data keeps getting collected afterwards (and some recommendations change as a result), this process does not stop when the trial completes.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Article:
Phase I trials test an experimental drug, vaccine or device in a small group of people to evaluate safety, possible side effects, and to determine how the drug should be used or delivered.

Phase II trials involve more people than Phase I and they are designed to assess the safety and efficacy of an experimental treatment. This phase can last several years.

Phase III trials are usually large studies with many participants. This phase compares the experimental drug or vaccine to a placebo or standard treatment, to evaluate safety and efficacy. Some side effects that were not identified in Phase II may be identified in a Phase III trial because many more people are evaluated. The regulatory health authority, such as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, will consider the results of clinical trials up to and including Phase III trials when determining whether to approve a new drug or vaccine.

Phase IV trials take place after a regulatory health authority, such as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, has approved the use of the drug or vaccine. A drug's effectiveness and safety are monitored in large, diverse populations.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
what if there is a fire in your house?
what if you prepare food for others? the finer points of taste involve smell.
Article:
A 2014 study found that people with anosmia were more than twice as likely to experience a hazardous event, such as eating spoilt food, as people without smell loss10.


Overall, about half of the people with Covid have smell loss, so 5% of that is ~2.5% of all cases. In other words, 1 in every 40 people who catch Covid loses their smell.
Vaccination reduces this risk:
Article:
However, our latest research, which was published today in Lancet Infectious Diseases, has found that adults who received a double vaccination are in fact 47% less likely to get Long COVID should they contract a COVID-19 infection.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
New strain of the virus coming out of South Africa:

 

Mendel

Senior Member.
That means vaccines, which were designed using the original strain, may not be as effective.
It also means that protection from a past Covid infection may be gone.

The mRNA vaccines should still be effective since they target the S-protein that the virus needs to infect a cell; I don't expect that this part of the virus can mutate and leave the infectiousness intact (unless I've misread, it hasn't?), but we'll soon find out.
 

econ41

Senior Member
It also means that protection from a past Covid infection may be gone.
Not really - it is not "binary". Effectiveness may be reduced. Probably will. The issue is how much. Then in the whole dynamic of this issue - how fast will more effective vaccines be developed... and all the issues of the "arms race" situation which it inevitably raises.
The mRNA vaccines should still be effective since they target the S-protein that the virus needs to infect a cell; I don't expect that this part of the virus can mutate and leave the infectiousness intact (unless I've misread, it hasn't?), but we'll soon find out.
Yes. Especially the last comment "...but we'll soon find out."
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
Not really - it is not "binary". Effectiveness may be reduced. Probably will. The issue is how much. Then in the whole dynamic of this issue - how fast will more effective vaccines be developed
Let me clarify. Part of the virus has mutated.

However, to infect a cell, a virus must get inside. To do that, SARS-CoV-2 has its S-protein, which acts as a key to the ACE2 receptor (acting as a lock) in lung cells (and other cells) and allows the virus to get inside the cell; the cell then sees it as its own RNA and starts reproducing the virus until it bursts.

Because the S-protein acts as a key, any mutation that affects it should render the mutated copy "sterile" because it probably can't unlock the ACE2 receptor any more.
The mRNA vaccines (there are others, I'm referring to Pfizer and Moderna here) have been designed to produce just that key protein, so the immune response of people vaccinated with one of these vaccines should keep working because the protein that triggers it is always present in the virus if it's able to spread.

Other vaccines and our natural immune response can target other parts of the virus, parts that may mutate and leave the virus dangerous. When that happens, it's as if the virus has disguised itself so that the immune system no longer recognizes it, and an important part of your protection will be gone. (Not all of it - the human immune immune system works on many levels.)
What would happen in that case, realistically, is everyone getting a booster shot with the mRNA vaccine who hasn't already.

We have a handful of different vaccines around, as long as some keep working, we can switch to those. We won't have to wait for an all-new vaccine. (And if we have to, it's good to know that mRNA vaccines are very safe, because they're quick to adapt.)

That said, the above is theory; researchers are working right now to look at it in reality to confirm all of this for the new variant.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
Article:
Pfizer said it will be able to manufacture and distribute an updated version of its COVID-19 vaccine within 100 days if the new variant Omicron is found to be resistant to its current vaccine.


Article:
The Omicron variant was first discovered in South Africa and has since been detected in Belgium, Botswana, Israel and Hong Kong.
 
Last edited:

Mendel

Senior Member.
is "S-protein" the spike protein?
Yes.
Though the lock-and-key mechanism involves only a small part of the protein.
The spike itself seems to have mutated quite a bit, but I still expect the vaccines to remain effective.
We're going to have problems if the variant becomes faster at replicating than our immune system is at ramping up its response; thankfully booster shots can provide a head start.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Article:
"We have seen a lot of Delta patients during the third wave. And this doesn't fit in the clinical picture," she said, adding she alerted NICD on the same day with the clinical results.
"Most of them are seeing very, very mild symptoms and none of them so far have admitted patients to surgeries. We have been able to treat these patients conservatively at home," she said.


Coetzee, who is also on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, said unlike the Delta so far patients have not reported loss of smell or taste and there has been no major drop in oxygen levels with the new variant.
Her experience so far has been that the variant is affecting people who are 40 or younger. Almost half of the patients with Omicron symptoms that she treated were not vaccinated.


"The most predominant clinical complaint is severe fatigue for one or two days. With them, the headache and the body aches and pain."

Article:
Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.
“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.

It would be very nice if omicron was "mostly harmless" and still left people with some protection against other strains. It would work like a "viral vaccination".

I agree that travel bans are mostly useless, viruses get around them anyway.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
While I agree with the long-term futility of travel bans, sometimes they might buy a little time in developing measures to deal with a new virus or new strain, and to get them in place. And of course it helps if you can make the ban more airtight, which gives an advantage to smaller island nations in defending their borders in the short to medium term.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
And of course it helps if you can make the ban more airtight,
But you can't because you need trade, and you need to allow your citizens to come home, so testing and quarantine seems like superior strategy.

(Kinda like "abstinence education" in schools is correlated with higher teen pregnancy rates than teaching teens to use condoms.)
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
most travel bans dont refer to people coming home.
I wish you'd share your sources; I'd really like to know where you get this misinformation.

USA​

Article:
  • The United States will restrict travel for non-U.S. citizens from South Africa and seven other countries starting Monday as a new Covid variant emerges.

Article:
Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry.
The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of noncitizens who were physically present within the Republic of [...] during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.

Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.
(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:
(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;
(ii) any noncitizen national of the United States;
(iii) any noncitizen who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;
[exemptions continue through (xiii)]


UK​

Article:
From 4am on Sunday 28 November, British and Irish citizens or residents arriving from those countries will have to pay to enter hotel quarantine for 10 days; all other travellers are banned from entering the UK from midday today.


Australia​

Article:
Australian citizens, permanent residents or their immediate family members entering Australia who have been in any of these countries in the last 14 days must enter supervised quarantine for 14 days in line with state and territory requirements. This is regardless of vaccination status.
Any other travellers who have been in these countries in the last 14 days are not permitted to enter Australia.

Germany​

Article:
Based on the Ordinance on protection against risks of infection with the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus posed by persons entering the country (Coronavirus-Einreiseverordnung – CoronaEinreiseV), transport companies, e.g. air carriers and railway companies, may not transport any persons from these countries to Germany. Entry for such travellers into Germany is not allowed under Art. 14 (1) / Art. 6 (1) lit e of the Schengen Borders Code.
There are only a few, strictly defined exceptions to the travel ban:

  1. German citizens
  2. Citizens of the EU-countries and Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein or Iceland who have their permanent residence in Germany
  3. Third country nationals with permanent residence and lawful residence in Germany
[list continues through 13.]

I'm 4 for 4 on the countries I checked; I don't believe any country in the world bans its own citizens from coming home.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
D Claim: Videos of people exhaling vape smoke through a mask, demonstrate masks as useless against a virus.. Coronavirus COVID-19 42
Mendel Debunked: The WHO did not take the Taiwan CDC seriously Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Rory Claim: adverse reactions in Covid vaccine trials are not being recorded Coronavirus COVID-19 66
Leifer List of reasons people do not want to get the Covid vaccine..... Coronavirus COVID-19 63
P Claim: 75 Deaths of athletes in Five Months are Because of COVID-19 vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 11
trevor COVID vaccine and VAERS discussion Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Rory Claim: Covid vaccines contains self-aware aluminum parasites Coronavirus COVID-19 44
T Claim: Offguardian article claiming that Covid PCR testing is flawed and not reliable Coronavirus COVID-19 8
P Friend has fallen into COVID-conspiracies Coronavirus COVID-19 95
Rory Debunked: UK undertaker's claim that Covid vaccine is responsible for spike in deaths Coronavirus COVID-19 7
Mick West Debunked: Pfizer Developing a Twice-Per-Day COVID Pill, Taken Alongside Vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Are 99% of COVID-19 Deaths Among the Unvaccinated? Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Peter Finnish politician on possible Covid Vaccine Genocide Coronavirus COVID-19 12
P Need Debunking: "Experimental Vaccine Death Rate for Israel's Elderly 40 Times Higher Than COVID-19 Deaths" Coronavirus COVID-19 7
G Claim: China refused to hand "key data" to WHO delegation during the recent investigation in Wuhan Coronavirus COVID-19 29
Oystein Report: "23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine" (NY Post) Coronavirus COVID-19 9
JMartJr Covid Stimulus Bill mandates UFO Disclosure UFOs and Aliens 5
A.G. Explained: Covid-19 research with pre-2020 dates in Google search results Coronavirus COVID-19 4
Mick West Explained: "Disappearing needles" in Covid Vaccinations Coronavirus COVID-19 1
Adam Taylor A Plug for "You Can Know Things" Coronavirus COVID-19 0
B Covid hoaxer and anti vaxxer’s son, speaks out. Coronavirus COVID-19 1
A Needs Debunking: Proposed COVID Vaccine will become part of our DNA, make us programmable Coronavirus COVID-19 37
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Arugula Claim: Only 6% of COVID deaths are "real" - the rest died due to comorbidities Coronavirus COVID-19 12
Mendel The E-PAI report on the Origins of COVID-19 Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Dingo Claim: U.S. Covid-19 Deaths are being Artificially Inflated Coronavirus COVID-19 38
omaehamoushindeiru Claim:Natural Covid-19 broke out of Wuhan lab (not man-made) Coronavirus COVID-19 72
Dan Wilson Claim:HIV Protein Sequences in Covid-19 (report withdrawn by authors) & other "man made" claims Coronavirus COVID-19 32
Z.W. Wolf President Trump's Facial Changes After His Coronavirus Diagnosis. [AI upscaled image] Coronavirus COVID-19 25
Z.W. Wolf President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 126
Critical Thinker Claim: Correlations Between Media Preference and Coronavirus Infection Rates Coronavirus COVID-19 11
derwoodii Retweet Networks Spreading Coronavirus Disinformation Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Mick West Local Perspectives on Coronavirus re-openings Coronavirus COVID-19 57
TEEJ Fake Coronavirus Detector in Iran Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Debunking Correlations Between 5G deployments and Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Boris Johnson in ICU with Coronavirus Symptoms Coronavirus COVID-19 8
Rory Claim: UK Coronavirus Bill (HC Bill 122) means "bad things" Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Mick West Claim: China Mobile loses 8.116 Million subscribers because of Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Agent K Claim: Harvey Weinstein has coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 9
deirdre Coronavirus and Younger people Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Coronavirus Related Shortages in Shops Coronavirus COVID-19 111
Leifer Coronavirus Statistics: Cases, Mortality, vs. Flu Coronavirus COVID-19 281
Mick West 2020 US Election - Current Events Election 2020 372
Mick West TFTRH #32 - The Skeptic of the North: Former Conspiracist, Current Skeptic Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 1
Mick West TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 51
Mick West 2017 Westminster attack Current Events 23
Mick West Current Events Forum Guidelines Current Events 0
Bfahome ElectroBOOM debunks "Current Mohan" (History Channel) General Discussion 8
Mick West Debunked: J. Marvin Herndon's "Geoengineering" Articles in Current Science (India) and IJERPH Contrails and Chemtrails 355
Mick West Edward Current: I was a Deluded 9/11 Truther Escaping The Rabbit Hole 3
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top