Contrails in Malaysia and Singapore

koguma

New Member
But that's not true either. Contrails often persist and spread if the weather conditions aloft are right for it (ice-supersaturated air). It's basic physics. They can't not persist.
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma
What is going on at 35,000 feet has little or nothing to do with the weather at 15,000 feet an below . . . .
 

Pete

Member
Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma

For the love of god. Start your own thread, don't hijack one, and if you have been reading around did you miss the part about how conditions at altitude might be different than at sea-level?!

E.g. Summit of Mount Kinabalu in Malaysia is much cooler than the valley.... This website even comes with a handy altitude/temperature chart:
http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Kinabalu/forecasts/4102
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma

the temperature decreases at about 2 degrees C per 1000 ft of altitude - this is called the "lapse rate". So at 30,000 feet you can expect it to be 60 deg C colder than at sea level, and 80 deg C colder at 40,000 feet.

there is some sounding data available for SE Asia that might show this in easy to read form - I'll see if I can find the simplest depiction of it for you.

Edit - found it here
check south-east Asia as the region and you get a map with dozens of sounding stations - pick the one you want and you get a fairly simple tabular readout of various atmospheric conditions at various heights.

Below is the current data from Penang - you can see that the temperature generally drops with height, and the relative humidity also has marked changes with height - increasing and decreasing at different levels.

penang.jpg
 

koguma

New Member
the temperature decreases at about 2 degrees C per 1000 ft of altitude - this is called the "lapse rate". So at 30,000 feet you can expect it to be 60 deg C colder than at sea level, and 80 deg C colder at 40,000 feet.

there is some sounding data available for SE Asia that might show this in easy to read form - I'll see if I can find the simplest depiction of it for you.

Edit - found it here
check south-east Asia as the region and you get a map with dozens of sounding stations - pick the one you want and you get a fairly simple tabular readout of various atmospheric conditions at various heights.

Below is the current data from Penang - you can see that the temperature generally drops with height, and the relative humidity also has marked changes with height - increasing and decreasing at different levels.

View attachment 2949

Sorry for hijacking the thread, though I think Mick posted regarding contrails/chemtrails. So I looked at the data you linked. Most of the places I needed had no data, but the closest had the following data:

WMPKP
300.0 9710 -30.5 -34.6 67 0.68 70 21 342.3 345.0 342.4

and

[h=2][/h][h=2]WBGG[/h]

300.0 9670 -31.3 -34.4 74 0.69 100 23 341.1 343.9 341.3

That's around 30k ft for each of those places.The numbers look very close to me. So I still cannot account for what I saw, unless I'm misreading? I also don't follow the sea-level vs high-altitude argument. What difference does it make? I'm looking up at a flying plane, in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.
Thanks,Koguma
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
koguma, I suggest you read this paper Calculations of Aircraft Contrail Formation Critical Temperatures. Especially interesting are the graphs and their explanation on the first 2 pages, and the tables at the end.
FYI with the tables, most jets these days are high by-pass types, so use that table when assessing these temperature soundings.

About the "sea-level vs high-altitude argument"... contrails form or not depending on the atmospheric conditions where the jet is flying - high altitude. The ground conditions have nothing to do with the conditions 7 miles up...
Well, very little - it's a starting point for the application of the lapse rate, but a lot can happen in between.
Clear now? Cheers.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
koguma said:
I'm looking up at a flying plane, in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.


Koguma, I can see several contrails over western Malaysia just this last week on NASA WorldView. They really do happen everywhere in the world where there is air traffic and the atmospheric conditions are met. Going back in time you will no doubt find more examples:

http://earthdata.nasa.gov/labs/worl...sedac_bound&time=2013-05-18&switch=geographic

It's also worth pointing out that there is probably more air traffic coming and going from Singapore than to Malaysia.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma

I wonder when you first started looking for the differences between contrails? What prompted you to start comparing?
 

Pete

Member
Yes HappyMonday, I wonder how many people have never looked up and then gone 'oh my god!' when they see contrails. It seems that way anyhow.
 

Pete

Member
Sorry for hijacking the thread, though I think Mick posted regarding contrails/chemtrails. So I looked at the data you linked. Most of the places I needed had no data, but the closest had the following data:

WMPKP
300.0 9710 -30.5 -34.6 67 0.68 70 21 342.3 345.0 342.4

and

WBGG



300.0 9670 -31.3 -34.4 74 0.69 100 23 341.1 343.9 341.3

That's around 30k ft for each of those places.The numbers look very close to me. So I still cannot account for what I saw, unless I'm misreading? I also don't follow the sea-level vs high-altitude argument. What difference does it make? I'm looking up at a flying plane, in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.
Thanks,Koguma

I would say the relative humidity is probably a big factor, 67% up to 74% is a enough of a difference to allow contrails too form/persist. Not to mention that planes can fly at quite different altitudes.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.
Thanks,Koguma

Singapore sits at the very tip of the Malaysian peninsula...Singapore is very small- only about 272 square miles...

I submit that some of the planes you see leaving contrails whilst in Singapore will also be visible in Malaysia...

Be that as it may, others have seen contrails directly over Malaysia:

Maylay contrail.PNG

http://alithome.blogspot.com/2012/03/look-up-for-chemtrails.html

Here are some contrails directly over the Petronas Towers:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Location..._Towers-Kuala_Lumpur_Wilayah_Persekutuan.html

Here are some from 2007:

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/sylphsovermalaysia27nov07.shtml
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
How recently did you move to Malaysia? How long were you in Singapore for?

It takes a really long time to get used to the "normal" weather patterns for a place, and even then there are often periods of unusual weather.

If a visitor came to Los Angeles in June, then left in October, they might be forgiven for thinking there are no contrails here. But it's just seasonal.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
How recently did you move to Malaysia? How long were you in Singapore for?

It takes a really long time to get used to the "normal" weather patterns for a place, and even then there are often periods of unusual weather.

If a visitor came to Los Angeles in June, then left in October, they might be forgiven for thinking there are no contrails here. But it's just seasonal.

Right along the lines of what I was thinking, like the location of Malaysia in relation to the position of the ITCZ as it drifts northward and southward with the seasons.

http://www2.palomar.edu/users/pdeen/animations/23_weatherpat.swf
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Sorry for hijacking the thread, though I think Mick posted regarding contrails/chemtrails. So I looked at the data you linked. Most of the places I needed had no data, but the closest had the following data:

WMPKP
300.0 9710 -30.5 -34.6 67 0.68 70 21 342.3 345.0 342.4

and

WBGG

300.0 9670 -31.3 -34.4 74 0.69 100 23 341.1 343.9 341.3

That's around 30k ft for each of those places.The numbers look very close to me. So I still cannot account for what I saw, unless I'm misreading? I also don't follow the sea-level vs high-altitude argument. What difference does it make? I'm looking up at a flying plane, in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.
Thanks,Koguma

the numbers are close - but the important one is the relative humidity - that is the 67 and 74 figures.

that is probably enough difference right there to have contrails in one place (74%) but not the other (67%). FYI if you are interested in a scientific explaination of erlative humditiy and how supersaturation affects it then

Remember that physics is a very hard and rigid mistress - if the conditions are right then the contrails MUST form....and if they are not right then the contrails CANNOT form - ther is no in between.

How long they last is another matter and is much more open to "degrees" - contrails can and do last different times depending on the characteristics of the surrounding atmosphere. As you have noted there can be significant differences.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Sorry for hijacking the thread, though I think Mick posted regarding contrails/chemtrails. So I looked at the data you linked. Most of the places I needed had no data, but the closest had the following data:

WMPKP
300.0 9710 -30.5 -34.6 67 0.68 70 21 342.3 345.0 342.4

and

[h=2][/h][h=2]WBGG[/h]

300.0 9670 -31.3 -34.4 74 0.69 100 23 341.1 343.9 341.3

That's around 30k ft for each of those places.The numbers look very close to me. So I still cannot account for what I saw, unless I'm misreading? I also don't follow the sea-level vs high-altitude argument. What difference does it make? I'm looking up at a flying plane, in Malaysia, never see contrails/chemtrails. Singapore, practically chocking on it.
Thanks,Koguma

the numbers are close - but the important one is the relative humidity - that is the 67 and 74 figures.

that is probably enough difference right there to have contrails in one place (74%) but not the other (67%). FYI if you are interested in a scientific explaination of erlative humditiy and how supersaturation affects it then

Remember that physics is a very hard and rigid mistress - if the conditions are right then the contrails MUST form....and if they are not right then the contrails CANNOT form - ther is no in between.

How long they last is another matter and is much more open to "degrees" - contrails can and do last different times depending on the characteristics of the surrounding atmosphere. As you have noted there can be significant differences.

-31°C at 300 hPa is far to warm for contrails for form. Suppose the RH is 74%, then acoring to the tables for high by-pass engines in the Schrader paper, the temperature needs to be below -46°C.
Correct that it is a "criteria met" or "not met" for contrails to form.
Persistence is another there or not there criteria. Is the air ice-supersaturated? At RH(water) 74% I think it would be.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Hi Mick. I just signed up so I could debunk the link you posted. I was skeptical of chemtrails as well, but after traveling around, I've observed something interesting. According to the article above, contrails are formed when it's cold and humid. I've recently moved to Malaysia where it's hot and humid. I've observed no contrails or chemtrails. Planes fly around all the time, jets, commercial liners, cessnas, helicopters, pretty much everything. I've never observed a chemtrails or contrail.

I took a trip to Singapore. Singapore is right next door to Malaysia. Same weather. I see chemtrails everywhere. I see the planes doing it. If you have an explanation, feel free...

-koguma
Maybe knowing the closest airport to where you live will help.
I'm not an expert but I don't think helicopters or cessna leave contrails.
 
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