1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    As a complement to the pre-1995 contrails photos thread, this is the place to upload any instance of contrails seen in airline advertising. The older the better!

    DC-8, circa 1959:

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    1964 - Another DC-8. Was the DC-8 the start of high altitude jet travel? They seem to be making something of the contrails:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Not an ad exactly, from 1961:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    1957, Flying Magazine:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  5. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Interesting how they promote the stratosphere . . . according to some here . . . they don't fly there . . . just saying . . .
     
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  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Stratosphere was a bit of marketing buzz word. It starts at about 6-7 miles up (32,000 to 37,000 feet), round here, so many current high altitude flights are in the stratosphere:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratosphere


    Yet the Boeing 307 in 1938 was described as a "stratoliner", even though it only cruised at 20,000 feet, still well in the troposphere.



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  7. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  8. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The DC-8 remaking geography sounds suspiciously like geoengineering :)
     
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  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Here the artist seems unclear on the concept:

    [​IMG]

    1983 Pacific Western Airlines:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Great images, thanks!

    That Quebecair logo must have an APU :)
     
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  12. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

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  13. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    Give it time, conspiracists will link the logo to an evil secret society. :)
     
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  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They already essentially have, as it's a Fleur-de-lis, associated with various of the more esoteric illuminati/NWO theories, including the Priory of Sion.
     
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  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    A.V. Roe Canada1940. airlines of us1945. avroe21949. Kinner. mobilgas 1944.
     
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  16. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    mustangs 1944. vultee1941. XB47 1948.
     
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  17. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    As a minor digression, I think the last Boeing advert on Jay's post is actually an image of jato or rato (rocket assist takeoff).
    It is a B47 medium bomber. The engines on them produced lots of soot and contrails anyway:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._off_on_April_15,_1954_061024-F-1234S-011.jpg

    Rato or Jato was developed largely by the Germans during ww2 to help launch heavy aircraft and the early jet planes quickly and used jetisonable liquid fuel rockets burning hypergolic fuel (explode on contact) C stoff and T stoff.
    Atado264 blitz:http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany...234-bomber/arado-ar-234-a-blitz-bomber-02.png
    Me 323 Gigant: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg1909.jpg
    http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg1908.jpg

    The two hypergolic fuels are T-stoff: 80% Hydrogen Peroxide with 20% water and C-Stoff : 57% Methanol Ch3OH and 30%Hydrazine Hydrate N2H4.H2O and 12% water so the exhaust is little different to that of a jet engine, CO2 and water and nitrogen gas. The huge exhaust plumes from those German rocket packs are predominantly water condensation.
     
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  18. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    And also that organisation who, for years, have tried to get kids out into the countryside looking at the natusal world (including clouds), the Boy Scouts.
     
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  19. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member


    Mwahaha! The scouts, obvious training ground for the elites of totalitarian regimes.;) http://www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/swastika.htm
     
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  20. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

  21. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Active Member

    Had to say...all these ads will just be evidence to the chemmies that the airlines are in cahoots with those responsible...and the ads are just a way of getting people used to seeing airliners leaving trails everywhere.

    As to the Aeroflot pic.....looks more like an F-16 maneuver.
     
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  22. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

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  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  24. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Hi all, just wondering what exactly we're learning here. All I"m seeing is normal contrails produced from Jets as they always have. Although they might look like some chemtrails in the beginning, the great majority of them will just dissipate and evaporate. This is totally unlike Chemtrails which persist, spread and envelop the sky. Same thing with all the old movies with contrails in them. Not a single example of what we're seeing these days where sunny days turn into totally cloudy days within an hour or tow after being bombarded with traffic. Am I missing something?
     
  25. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Google Richard Scorer - Clouds of the World
     
  26. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Yes you are missing the fact that what you described are BOTH examples of normal characteristics of contrails.
    Normal contrails can be short lived. Normal contrails can persist and spread and envelop the sky.
    This has been a known characteristic for many decades.

    How about you read this site in far more detail and have a careful read of the many threads to learn what normal contrails often do.

    but these atmospheric science papers are a good start:

    "The spreading of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent contrails exist from 25,000 to 40,000 ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet."


    from Peter Kuhn," Airborne Observations of Contrail Effects on the Thermal Radiation Budget" published 1970.
    Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences Volume 27, Issue 6 (September 1970)


    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0469(1970)027<0937:AOOCEO>2.0.CO;2


    “It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”
    http://cires.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf

    of this account from a book written in 1942/43:

    Extract from ''Flight To Arras''
    ''The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside''.
     
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  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    American Airlines has a new look, but their ad campaign is almost certain to be seen in a different light by the CT people, a way which the ad agency could never have even imagined:
     
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Possibly an early depiction of an aerodymamic contrail.
    Popular aviation. June 1939
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  30. Interesting how the stratosphere starts at 30,000 feet near the poles, 59,000 feet near the equator, and extends to 160,000 feet globally. Slightly more interesting how the DC-8's cruise altitude of 35,000 feet means it could only touch the stratosphere at fairly extreme latitudes (but fair enough for an advertising claim!). Considerably more interesting how any SAG/SRM project would be concentrated at lower latitudes (they don't want to cool the poles) where the stratosphere starts at altitudes WELL above the flight ceiling of all passenger/commercial planes. Infinitely more interesting how you latch onto that minor point (which was easy to address) in a thread where there are contrails galore from advertising material that predates the "chemtrails" hoax timeframe by many decades and demolishes the intertwined claims "The white lines didn't persist when I was a child in the 70's. Contrails don't persist, only chemtrails do"

    Just saying ... a bit belatedly.
     
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  31. WillofLa

    WillofLa New Member

    If contrails form at the higher attitudes where jets fly I can understand the physics of why contrails form from the heat of the exhaust. But what baffled me the other day was "contrails" at ten to fifteen thousand where the weather clouds were. That is not possible because there isn't the cold air where condensation would be taking place from the heat of jet exhaust. It seems to me by watching where these planes are flying doing whatever it is that they seem to be doing, some fly high, some fly low or where ever the central part of the weather flow they would need to fly in order to have the desired affect on the weather whatever that may be. Now, how can jet exhaust form a ten thousand feet? And to be on record I have not ever seen any particulates coming from any of these white streams coming from jets that is what others have experienced. It's just more like whomever may be wanting to change the weather are doing to the weather whatever it is that they may want to do.
     
  32. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    How are you sure the aircraft you saw were at 10,000 to 15,000 feet?
    http://eo.ucar.edu/webweather/cloud3.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
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  33. deirdre

    deirdre Senior Member

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  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Cool photo, but we were more looking for old airline ads. Plus this is a rocket motor, so not really what people think of as a contrail. Possibly more of a smoke trail.
     
  35. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    This is neither old nor airline ad that I've just watched on a british TV channel:
    Screen shot 2014-07-06 at 20.01.10.
    Unusually, it depicts aerodynamic contrails from the tips of the wing. There appears to be no youtube video to embed, but here is a link with the video.
     
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  37. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Agree. Right now I'm looking for old postcards that may depict contrails.
    For example, this one from http://eaglewings-eyrie.com/Postcards10.htm shows three possible parallel trails on the background:
    [​IMG]
    Oldest windmill on Cape Cod at Eastham Massachusetts

    There are more pictures from this site, e.g., another postcard from Cape Cod (both are dated by 1970s):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
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  38. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    More VC10 promo graphics.
    http://www.vc10.net/photo_archives.html (http://archive.today/K5vis)
    All credits go to the above site. Much thanks to the respective illustrators, too.


    Dates.....
    First two from "Ranger Magazine", 1965
    vc10_ranger_magazine_1.

    vc10_ranger_mag_2.




    Date unknown (drink coaster).....(but the period of the VC10 was an active passenger jet, in the mid-late 1960's ?)
    vc10_ghana_airways.

    added info...old footage of the VC10 (with contrails @ 00:00:42 thru 00:01:12)...
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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  39. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Those are so "Mega"-cool!!! Thnxs.

    The Vickers VC-10....almost looks like a Russian Ilyushin design of that era:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-62

    (ETA): And of course, "In Soviet Union, jet does not make contrails....contrails make JET!"

    ( Homage to "Yakov Smirnov"....an obvious alias!! :cool: )
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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  40. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    13.

    Question.....and now a devil's-advocate query....
    Is it possible that the illustrators are using graphic "motion indicators"....(i.e. drawn trails or lines behind a moving object to simply suggest movement ?).....or are they in fact drawing contrails because there "are" contrails left behind jets or planes ?

    I'll try to answer this, before the question is asked by someone else. (pre-empting)
    In most drawn cartoon illustrations....such motion lines are found at the edge (or the entire edge) of the moving object....

    If you look at most of the above thread images......the trails are emanating from the engines.......not from the wing tips or along the whole body of the object.





    Fast_aeroplane_with_motion_lines. Simonson Movement line. segar04.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014