Contrails in Airline Advertising

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
1964 - Another DC-8. Was the DC-8 the start of high altitude jet travel? They seem to be making something of the contrails:
 
Last edited:

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Interesting how they promote the stratosphere . . . according to some here . . . they don't fly there . . . just saying . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Stratosphere was a bit of marketing buzz word. It starts at about 6-7 miles up (32,000 to 37,000 feet), round here, so many current high altitude flights are in the stratosphere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratosphere


Yet the Boeing 307 in 1938 was described as a "stratoliner", even though it only cruised at 20,000 feet, still well in the troposphere.



 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here the artist seems unclear on the concept:



1983 Pacific Western Airlines:
 
Last edited:

GregMc

Senior Member.
As a minor digression, I think the last Boeing advert on Jay's post is actually an image of jato or rato (rocket assist takeoff).
It is a B47 medium bomber. The engines on them produced lots of soot and contrails anyway:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._off_on_April_15,_1954_061024-F-1234S-011.jpg

Rato or Jato was developed largely by the Germans during ww2 to help launch heavy aircraft and the early jet planes quickly and used jetisonable liquid fuel rockets burning hypergolic fuel (explode on contact) C stoff and T stoff.
Atado264 blitz:http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany...234-bomber/arado-ar-234-a-blitz-bomber-02.png
Me 323 Gigant: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg1909.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg1908.jpg

The two hypergolic fuels are T-stoff: 80% Hydrogen Peroxide with 20% water and C-Stoff : 57% Methanol Ch3OH and 30%Hydrazine Hydrate N2H4.H2O and 12% water so the exhaust is little different to that of a jet engine, CO2 and water and nitrogen gas. The huge exhaust plumes from those German rocket packs are predominantly water condensation.
 

Danny55

Senior Member.
They already essentially have, as it's a Fleur-de-lis, associated with various of the more esoteric illuminati/NWO theories, including the Priory of Sion.

And also that organisation who, for years, have tried to get kids out into the countryside looking at the natusal world (including clouds), the Boy Scouts.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Had to say...all these ads will just be evidence to the chemmies that the airlines are in cahoots with those responsible...and the ads are just a way of getting people used to seeing airliners leaving trails everywhere.

As to the Aeroflot pic.....looks more like an F-16 maneuver.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
American Airlines has a new look, but their ad campaign is almost certain to be seen in a different light by the CT people, a way which the ad agency could never have even imagined:
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Possibly an early depiction of an aerodymamic contrail.
Popular aviation. June 1939
 
Last edited:
Interesting how they promote the stratosphere . . . according to some here . . . they don't fly there . . . just saying . . .
Interesting how the stratosphere starts at 30,000 feet near the poles, 59,000 feet near the equator, and extends to 160,000 feet globally. Slightly more interesting how the DC-8's cruise altitude of 35,000 feet means it could only touch the stratosphere at fairly extreme latitudes (but fair enough for an advertising claim!). Considerably more interesting how any SAG/SRM project would be concentrated at lower latitudes (they don't want to cool the poles) where the stratosphere starts at altitudes WELL above the flight ceiling of all passenger/commercial planes. Infinitely more interesting how you latch onto that minor point (which was easy to address) in a thread where there are contrails galore from advertising material that predates the "chemtrails" hoax timeframe by many decades and demolishes the intertwined claims "The white lines didn't persist when I was a child in the 70's. Contrails don't persist, only chemtrails do"

Just saying ... a bit belatedly.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Promotional photo of Virgin Galactics' SpaceShipTwo with visible contrail:


Cool photo, but we were more looking for old airline ads. Plus this is a rocket motor, so not really what people think of as a contrail. Possibly more of a smoke trail.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
This is neither old nor airline ad that I've just watched on a british TV channel:
Screen shot 2014-07-06 at 20.01.10.png
Unusually, it depicts aerodynamic contrails from the tips of the wing. There appears to be no youtube video to embed, but here is a link with the video.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Maybe we need some kind of image database with various tags.

Agree. Right now I'm looking for old postcards that may depict contrails.
For example, this one from http://eaglewings-eyrie.com/Postcards10.htm shows three possible parallel trails on the background:

Oldest windmill on Cape Cod at Eastham Massachusetts

There are more pictures from this site, e.g., another postcard from Cape Cod (both are dated by 1970s):

 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
More VC10 promo graphics.
http://www.vc10.net/photo_archives.html (http://archive.today/K5vis)
All credits go to the above site. Much thanks to the respective illustrators, too.


Dates.....
First two from "Ranger Magazine", 1965
vc10_ranger_magazine_1.jpg

vc10_ranger_mag_2.jpg




Date unknown (drink coaster).....(but the period of the VC10 was an active passenger jet, in the mid-late 1960's ?)
vc10_ghana_airways.jpg

added info...old footage of the VC10 (with contrails @ 00:00:42 thru 00:01:12)...
 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
13.jpg

Question.....and now a devil's-advocate query....
Is it possible that the illustrators are using graphic "motion indicators"....(i.e. drawn trails or lines behind a moving object to simply suggest movement ?).....or are they in fact drawing contrails because there "are" contrails left behind jets or planes ?

I'll try to answer this, before the question is asked by someone else. (pre-empting)
In most drawn cartoon illustrations....such motion lines are found at the edge (or the entire edge) of the moving object....

If you look at most of the above thread images......the trails are emanating from the engines.......not from the wing tips or along the whole body of the object.





Fast_aeroplane_with_motion_lines.png Simonson Movement line.jpg segar04.jpg
 
Last edited:

captfitch

Senior Member.
I think in most of the advertising cases, the actual aircraft is so relatively small that to either draw the eye to it or to fill the void of sky, the trails are there. That, plus the visual inference of speed as just suggested.
 

GregMc

Senior Member.
F0012617.JPG
Seemed to be an airline poster for Vietnam/Japan co-partnership seen on airport wall, Hanoi
 
Last edited by a moderator:

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
Again, Mick. We've had this topic before. There is no stratospheric flight for major commercial airliners. Generally speaking the aircraft are too heavy to fly in the stratosphere as it is too warm. Maybe you'll find a gulfstream jet flying at 50k but it doesn't makes sense because the air is warmer. There is a reason most 121 aircraft are certified to a max of 41k, and fly in the mid 30s (+/- 10k).

We don't fly past the trope. It's posted on our flight plans for a specific reason.



Stratosphere was a bit of marketing buzz word. It starts at about 6-7 miles up (32,000 to 37,000 feet), round here, so many current high altitude flights are in the stratosphere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratosphere

Yet the Boeing 307 in 1938 was described as a "stratoliner", even though it only cruised at 20,000 feet, still well in the troposphere.



 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
I've seen an instance of a B737 climb out in a deep tough of low pressure, burst through the (very low) trope and wonder why the temperature was suddenly ISA +20 and they hadn't reached the target cruise altitude by a long way. So it can happen inadvertently apparently.

Things eventually came right for that flight, but the crew were puzzled enough to ask a question about it.
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
Wow, I've never seen, or experienced a +20 lapse. The performance of the 737-700 vs. the 737-900 is very dramatic. The 700 carrying far less passengers with the same engines. The only place I could imagine this happening is near the ITCZ. Or maybe the Caribbean.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Again, Mick. We've had this topic before. There is no stratospheric flight for major commercial airliners. Generally speaking the aircraft are too heavy to fly in the stratosphere as it is too warm. Maybe you'll find a gulfstream jet flying at 50k but it doesn't makes sense because the air is warmer. There is a reason most 121 aircraft are certified to a max of 41k, and fly in the mid 30s (+/- 10k).

We don't fly past the trope. It's posted on our flight plans for a specific reason.

I think we might have had the conversation after that post though. It's from mid 2012.

I think there might be a problem of definitions here. But this is not the thread for it.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
There is a reason most 121 aircraft are certified to a max of 41k, and fly in the mid 30s (+/- 10k).

Ummm....it has to do mostly with PSID limitations, specific to each airplane's limitations....yes?

In terms of MAX altitude. Along with weights and performance issues.

Example...the "classic" B-737 compared to the "NG" B-737. Different 'MAX' Altitude restrictions, based on changes in the construction OF the airframe. Also, engine changes....but the "Classic" B-737 was primarily limited to a lower MAX PSID because of its structural design.

The B-727? (Even though the same basic cross-section in the pressurized portion of the fuselage?)... Able to go up to a higher PSID (ETA...just realized I have to add this explanation for "PSID"....AND I am sorry, having trouble finding an ON-LINE source to explain the aviation concept of 'PSID". It means "PSI-Differential". It is the relationship to the internal pressure in the airplane cabin, to the external "ambient" atmospheric pressure. : ....the "concept" of the early B-737 initially was to go "lighter-weight", and as a "twin-jet" for short-haul applications, this made sense....back then....SO, the fuselages were built to withstand a LOWER PSID, in order to save weight in construction.

LATER, the B-737 NGs were "built-up" to be more "beefy" to allow higher altitudes, and keep PSID levels at a point where the INTERNAL cabin pressure was still comfortable for the occupants. New engine technologies helped, too.
 
Last edited:

Leifer

Senior Member.
Here's another version of the American Airlines ad seen earlier on page 1 here.
I bought this (and the other, too) from eBay. Mine are not from a flying magazine. I'm not sure of the source magazine, though it is claimed to be from 1957.
(it is on glossy newsprint paper)

uvc005.jpg
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
U Some Old Questions from Contrails in Airline Advertising Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Gundersen Debunked: Airline Passengers Told To Lower Shades During Chemtrail Spraying Contrails and Chemtrails 25
Mick West Three Contrails "Descending" over Denver on Jan 31, 2021 [Military, C-17A Globemasters] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
S Lasers Making Contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Mick West Curved and Looped Contrails in SoCal [San Diego Delays] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
Mick West Crazy Contrails from LAX Ground Stop Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
D Explained: Photo of 747 with Contrails Only on One Side [Fake, April Fool] Contrails and Chemtrails 21
Mick West Infrared Photos of Clouds and Contrails Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 17
Mick West Moonlight Contrails Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 1
Mick West YouTube adds Encyclopedia Britannica article on Contrails to "Chemtrail" Videos Contrails and Chemtrails 18
Mick West Aerodynamic Contrails at 27,000 to 31,000 feet near Sacramento Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 2
Trailblazer Sharp boundary between contrails and clear sky Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 1
Mick West Plane Flies in Front of Super Blue Blood Moon Eclipse Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 1
Clouds Givemethewillies Contrail lobes or mamma? The importance of correct terminology Contrails and Chemtrails 0
cloudspotter How Changing Weather Conditions Make Contrails Show Up Contrails and Chemtrails 9
Trailspotter Contrail cross over Tasmania and spinning contrails over Victoria Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Explained: Manurewa NZ, 'Extra-terrestrial' Fireball Jumps Up [Contrail, Altitude change] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
Mick West Halifax, NS: Regularly Spaced Gaps in Contrails [Ethiopian Flight 501] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 47
Mick West Some Perspective on Perspective Foreshortening - Contrails and UFOs Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
Mick West Explained: Viral Video of 787 Leaving Thick Contrails with Forced Perspective Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
Mick West A Plane Flying Across the Face of the Sun, with Contrails [Virgin Flight 353] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
TEEJ Contrails filmed from commercial flight over the Irish Sea - 6th May 2017 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 2
ki_cz Contrails 'breaking up' clouds Contrails and Chemtrails 10
E Can someone tell me what these are? [Grid pattern contrails] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
P Can someone please explain these trails at sunset [Contrails] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 13
Mick West There Are No New Clouds, Just New Latin Classifications Contrails and Chemtrails 2
MikeC BBC: Biofuels 'could limit jet contrails' Contrails and Chemtrails 10
Mick West Spiral Contrails viewed from the International Space Station Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 12
ki_cz Claim: Satellite imagery showing 'sheet' of contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 7
Mick West GOES-16 Satellite Images of Contrails Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Explained: Contrails Appear "Hot" in Thermal Imaging because the Sky Appears Very Cold Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 4
Mick West Explained: Chilean Navy "UFO" video - Aerodynamic Contrails, Flight IB6830 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 186
Clouds Givemethewillies Why do inner contrails spread more than outer contrails? Contrails and Chemtrails 9
Mick West Contrails Hidden In 1950s and 1960s Family Photos Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 2
Mick West Four Engines, Flying West over Sacramento Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 6
Clouds Givemethewillies Persistent Aerodynamic Contrails From Propellor Tips Contrails and Chemtrails 12
Mick West A Sunlit Contrail Viewed From the Side Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Close Up Videos of Contrails Forming And Evolving Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 19
Mick West Some "Black" Shadowed Aerodynamic Contrails Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 4
Mick West Relative Humidity at Flight Altitudes. Resources and Contrail prediction. Contrails and Chemtrails 11
Mick West What's the Highest Contrail You've Taken a Photo Of? Contrails and Chemtrails 8
Mick West P900 Plane and Contrails Photos and Video Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 17
Mick West Persistent Aerodynamic Contrail Forming @28,500 on 787 Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
steve holmes Problems with Identifying Contrails in FlightRadar24 Contrails and Chemtrails 57
Mick West Why Were There Contrails Today, But Not Yesterday? It's the Weather! Contrails and Chemtrails 21
Mick West How Do You Take Good Photos of High Altitude Planes and Contrails? Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 1
Mick West Debunked: Irrefutable Film Footage Of Climate Engineering Aerosol Spraying [Aerodynamic Contrails] Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Mick West Contrails over Sting & Peter Gabriel Concert in Lake Tahoe Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 5
Mick West Giant Dark Persistent Aerodynamic Contrail Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 6
Kaylene Contrails in USA vs. Austraila Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top