deirdre
Senior Member.
youre reprimanding me for twisting words by twisting my words?
Claim: "They're eating the dogs" - Trump / Harris Presidential Debate '24
- Thread starter Giddierone
- Start date
Tezcatlipoca
Senior Member.
A note here since it got tagged the other day. This narrative is not a creation of the "GOP" or specific republican politicians promoting it.
Weirdly enough, the earliest dated referenced can be drawn back to none other than a Blood Tribe member, who claimed they were told about this during a protest they were literally flying swastika flags. I find some humour in the idea Blood Tribe, an actual neo-nazi extremist organization, would have more sources in the minority community than any news crew, the local cops, city politicians or anyone else has. Not to mention it's insanely unlikely this happened, because of that. We don't know if this is the true first reference but it's the earliest dated in researching it atm.
Source: https://x.com/ZaidJilani/status/1833573103684759621
If we dig more into that angle, we should avoid sharing direct content from their channels and etc. Don't give them the impression and engagement, might not be harmful with UAP woo but, these are actual neos and that group comprises a lot of actual extremists.
Weirdly enough, the earliest dated referenced can be drawn back to none other than a Blood Tribe member, who claimed they were told about this during a protest they were literally flying swastika flags. I find some humour in the idea Blood Tribe, an actual neo-nazi extremist organization, would have more sources in the minority community than any news crew, the local cops, city politicians or anyone else has. Not to mention it's insanely unlikely this happened, because of that. We don't know if this is the true first reference but it's the earliest dated in researching it atm.
Source: https://x.com/ZaidJilani/status/1833573103684759621
If we dig more into that angle, we should avoid sharing direct content from their channels and etc. Don't give them the impression and engagement, might not be harmful with UAP woo but, these are actual neos and that group comprises a lot of actual extremists.
FatPhil
Senior Member.
An utterly bizarre accusation, entirely unfounded.
Your words, which I quoted verbatim were "if they were all eating cats and dogs, all the time, there'd be like 2 million missing animals by now."
No-one had proposed "they were all eating cats and dogs all the time", so your argument wasn't addressing any point that anyone else had made - therefore you had demonstrably twisted your interlocutor's words in order to make a straw-man argument.
Which is precisely what I said in my previous post. Now you've made me chastise you twice, but this time you've forced me to spell it out to you slooooowly, which adds a layer of patronisation to it which I was happy to avoid last time. You're bringing this upon yourself.
deirdre
Senior Member.
your twitter post doesn't show him talking about ducks or geese or cats.
deirdre
Senior Member.
and what was the next line?
i'm sorry i didnt think i needed to add 3 more [descending] examples of math for my point to be understood. what is your definition of "mass consumption"?
and in case more math wouldnt help you understand my point, my point was if there was "mass consumption" it would be noticeable and the police would have a bunch of cooked cat bones in the evidence room.
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FatPhil
Senior Member.
Trump used the present continuous tense. Used that way it implies habituality - i.e. something that happens time and time again. He's emphasising the quantity of pet eatings. Jdog's paraphrasing didn't introduce that aspect.
deirdre
Senior Member.
so your definition of "mass consumption" is ....? 3, 10, 100,...what?
Giddierone
Senior Member.
It all kind of reminds me of folklore stories of Gypsies stealing (and sometimes eating) children, (story attached).
"Mr. President, for today's briefing: The Russians are counterattacking in Kursk, the Israeli incursion into Gaza continues, President Xi is on hold, and Timmy's dachsund is missing."
FatPhil
Senior Member.
If you genuinely wanted an answer to that question, you'd also have asked what number of occurrences should be considered habituality, or time and time again, so that you could compare my two answers.
I know that 4 victims makes a mass killing, so "mass" can start pretty low. I reckon if I were to shove a 6-pack of pork pies down my face people would consider that mass consumption. However, I'd probably not feel it was representative to call a collective wedding of only 6 couples a mass wedding, even though technically it is. A lot depends on how weird the thing is. The weirder, the fewer would be necessary to cross the threshold.
While researching this, did you happen to find who the first notable Republican was to spread the rumor?
deirdre
Senior Member.
ok then 4 consumers is mass consumption. got it.
captancourgette
Active Member
Speaking as one who has eaten dog on multiple occasions (*)
I say whats the issue? - PPL in the west eat pigs all the time and they are at least (or if not so) more intelligent than dogs
Same with bugs -- Just get over it - Otherwise you are hypocritical twats.
Trumps debate comments are just throwaway rubbish like all his stuff is, the more important IMO was Elon Musks comments about her 'needing' him Now Im a Musk cheerleader but !! FFS keep it real
(*)first time Lombok (indonesia) ~30 years ago
// btw chuck this thread in some subfolder /politics etc cause there will br a lot of irrational writings
I say whats the issue? - PPL in the west eat pigs all the time and they are at least (or if not so) more intelligent than dogs
Same with bugs -- Just get over it - Otherwise you are hypocritical twats.
Trumps debate comments are just throwaway rubbish like all his stuff is, the more important IMO was Elon Musks comments about her 'needing' him Now Im a Musk cheerleader but !! FFS keep it real
(*)first time Lombok (indonesia) ~30 years ago
// btw chuck this thread in some subfolder /politics etc cause there will br a lot of irrational writings
Ann K
Senior Member.
The fallout continues:
https://www.wdtn.com/top-stories/springfield-city-hall-evacuated-after-threat/External Quote:
Ann K
Senior Member.
The issue is not eating animals per se, but stealing and eating pets, and attributing that to a particular ethnic group. It's not even a dog whistle; it's the whole bloody marching band.
Trump didn't throw that line into empty air, though. He has a body of supporters who think they can get their way through violence, so the fact that he said it is merely a small part of the problem. It can only be disregarded if one is ignorant of recent history, such as the attack on the Capitol four years ago.
deirdre
Senior Member.
interesting. its been all over social media for days before the debate. i guess Mainstream media should have ignored it and not given it a bigger audience.
deirdre
Senior Member.
says the pot to the kettle.
FatPhil
Senior Member.
Except that's not what I said. More twisting.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
It's going to be a rough ride from here through the inauguration of the next President. If we can keep the discussion to debunking claims, and away from arguing politics with each other, it may do less damage to the "body politic" of the forum. My $0.02. your mileage may vary, etc.
Ann K
Senior Member.
Citation desperately needed. You forget where you are: you're usually the first one that demands verification.
deirdre
Senior Member.
feel free to answer my question then and give me a number.
deirdre
Senior Member.
um..no. that's Mendel.
my pot comment was in regards to the multitude of incidents of violence perpetrated by the left wing supporters (summer of love, etc)
deirdre
Senior Member.
Longer than that if Trump wins.
FatPhil
Senior Member.
I've already told you that I have worked out that you weren't genuinely interested in an answer. The rest of my response was just to show how ill-formed your question was.
deirdre
Senior Member.
convenient.
i hear you saying "sorry, i misunderstood the point of your original comment. I agree that the use of the phrase "mass consumption" was an unnecessary exaggeration."
it didnt.
FatPhil
Senior Member.
You don't.
Ann K
Senior Member.
Oh for goodness sake, that was in the 1960s! The topic was "Trump supporters", remember?
deirdre
Senior Member.
it was like 4 years ago too.
Article: CHOP: Seattle mayor walks back 'summer of love' comment
By Brandi KrusePublished June 22, 2020 7:44am PDTThe DivideQ13 FOX
(at least evil me didnt bring up voodoo like this democrat did! maybe you should be nicer to me.)
**Voodoo is generally a good religion, i doubt they use cats.
Source: https://x.com/marwilliamson/status/1834230977788313677?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
NoParty
Senior Member.
Hey, I like you too much to let this get bigger than it is worth.
I think we agree that, as a policy, a longer quote, with more context is generally good.
Were it someone who had not earned
(through literally thousands of untrue & intentionally misleading statements)
the reputation DJT has, I probably would've thought: "Let's give this person the benefit of the doubt."
But I had just watched Trump tell 67.1 million people:
"FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You just said a thing that isn't covered.
Peacefully and patriotically, I said during my speech. Not later on. Peacefully and patriotically."
So in just a few seconds Tuesday night, Trump actually doubled the times he said it in an intentionally
incendiary one hour speech on January 6th...giving false emphasis to a phrase that was cya buried
deep in that speech, deliberately utterly drowned by 17 calls to "Fight!"
The ABC moderators just let that stand, as if it were honest. Harris didn't get another chance to speak anytime soon, and when she did, he also did not put DJT's deliberately dishonest assertion in context.
A large majority of the sources I looked up did not have the last part of the quote in their headlines,
probably because it didn't seem significant. I accurately copied & pasted the words I thought
were relevant and would probably be remembered. Who knows, maybe in 2028 Trump will be in a
presidential debate, in which his opponent blames him for a supporter's physical assault on Swift.
And yes, I'm pretty sure DJT will deny all responsibility, and say something like:
"FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You just said a thing that isn't covered.
In the marketplace, I said about very pretty Taylor. In the marketplace."
Giddierone
Senior Member.
I guess I had Bill Murray's Ghostbusters lines in mind when I started this thread and a hunch that it might devolve into a disaster of "biblical proportion" (look it up). Hunch confirmed.
I thought it would be a simple question. Is the statement defensible? The answer (so far) appears to be no.
I thought it would be a simple question. Is the statement defensible? The answer (so far) appears to be no.
Tezcatlipoca
Senior Member.
Not my twitter post, all credits to that author who drudged that up. And you are correct it does not mention ducks and geese or cats etc, that's easily just a tag on addition. Themes tend to stay more rigid but narratives can self-develop over time and see tiny elements added or removed as it spreads from person to person.
It gets muddier if we look at state politicians, but on the federal level, first I've seen specifically was JD Vance on his Sept 9th twitter post at 9:22AM CST. Second after that was Cruz posting a meme about it on Twitter, also Sept 9th at 11:02AM. Around about this 11AM period on Monday is when we started to see that camp start to dive into it at large.
Source note - This gets into that area where I don't want to direct link due to impression and engagement issues. There is enough specifics there to find the posts though. I do promote second sourcing these ones, plenty of articles correctly reference the posts & what they contain accurately.
Mostly agree Ann. I would reframe slightly and say, it's also not necessarily its attribution to a particular ethnic group, theoretically speaking that ethnic group, as a whole, does have this present. The issue here, is it's an entirely unfounded and likely false claim in specifics, and it's being malignly leveraged and spread by certain actors with the intent for it to have destructive and divisive influence effects.
That alone makes it malign, but we can also dive deeper into "whats the issue" beyond that.
This leads to immigrant communities being outcast locally, people get targeted for threats of violence, their property gets destroyed. It's already evidenced that Haitian families in Springfield are facing mass amounts of threats and due to it they are pulling their kids from schools and staying inside.
So, we have that actual direct targeted group impact. Let's look at runoff impact too?
https://haitiantimes.com/2024/09/11/haitian-immigrants-in-ohio-under-racist-attacks/
Haitian Times is a pretty major diaspora publication for Haitian audiences in English environments. Things like this being posted, will be seen by Haitians not in the US, which could make them fearful of coming to the US for whatever reason, from wherever they are. This could further spin off and make it back to Haiti, where then, people who may want to immigrate here now have fear of doing so and do not.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
People in Haiti right now have WAY bigger things to be scared of. That was the case back before Covid when I visited a community there back in the hills not too far from Gonaïves, it is more so now with the collapse of civil authority and government and the rise of government by gangs. So far, at least, the worst of what our politics and government look like is orders of magnitude better than what they live in the middle of.
Tezcatlipoca
Senior Member.
Full agree there. Was just using it as framing of what actually makes this "bad" (more properly, malign and/or destructive & divisive) beyond simply being a false claim. Not that, that'd all happen in a grand way. Not all false claims involve malice, we all participate in a little white lying without malign intent, usually for reasons we consider constructive rather than destructive too.
NoParty
Senior Member.
I can't tell if you're joking.
No one ever said anything about whether dogs are eaten in some parts of the world.
That's just an incredibly weak straw man.
So, if you moved to, say, Australia, and people accused you of stealing, killing, butchering and eating
their family PETS, you would say:"So what? It's no big deal! Just get over it" ?
deirdre
Senior Member.
it is horrible for the legal immigrants, but they were already suffering the outcast thing, as it sounds like issues in the town are pretty bad at this point even prior the cat thing.
but the main issue (and hopefully most know this) is the fault lies at the federal governments feet. you cant let huge amounts of immigrants (legal or illegal) move into smallish communities that dont have the infrastructure or any federal funds help to deal with the influx.
I heard earlier that not only was a child killed (by unlicensed driver) but a womans mother in law was killed bringing her garbage cans in. The haitians dont know how to drive, but i dont think its their fault if they dont understand the laws or there aren't enough troopers to oversee the situation (the governor said yesterday he is sending more troopers to Springfield).
All the problems Springfield is facing is not the immigrants fault. I dont blame them for wanting to move en masse to the same locale (esp. if they dont speak the language), the Irish did that, the italians did that, the polish did that etc etc. BUT if we are going to invite LEGAL people in for their protection (which i agree with), then a plan needs to be put in place and they do need to be spread out somewhat so schools and hospitals and primary care arent overwhelmed. AND The FEDERAL government should be paying for them 100%. whether in Texas, NYC, Chicago, Springfield etc etc.
The cat issue isnt that big a deal, in my opinion, but now seeing what IS a big deal in that city (deaths, lack of housing, costs rising etc) I support the residents pleas to help them. That includes the haitian residents. I'm glad the issue was highlighted so the governor (a Republican) can get off his backside finally and actually do something meaningful for the town.
captancourgette
Active Member
Fair enough I see your POV, but personally I think part of the reason Trump made the remarks was the referencing of dogs & cats
as in he knows those animals trigger ppl unlike say a pet sheep would, btw not joking.External Quote:
(small aside I made a joke on another website about 'they're eating your pets' was Trumps attempt to win back the 'childless cat ladies' that Vance disparaged previously)
I apologize to Ann K et al as his comments are important as they do influence other people, i.e. others become emboldened to do or say more extreme views. I was speaking personally as in I just ignore all he saiz as throwaway rubbish as he is a proven pathological liar.
Mendel
Senior Member.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vio..._of_extremist_activities_in_the_United_States
Compare that with the section on right-wing extremism.External Quote:
There's a marked difference, even if you're trying to claim there isn't.
US federal agencies agree with you as well.
Far-right violence a growing threat and law enforcement's top domestic terrorism concernExternal Quote:
deirdre
Senior Member.
nice moving the goalposts attempt, but you really just highlighted that yea, i definitely see a marked difference in your wikipedia article. (not the difference you see, i gather, but a difference)
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