Claim: There's an organised group of debunkers who are paid to discredit UFOs

flarkey

Senior Member.
Staff member

NoParty

Senior Member.
I'll be honest, I'm not going to invest good time to listen to interviews of this guy...
I'll just say that the phrase (highlighted here) "an economic motivation"
is pretty weak sauce. Virtually anyone with a monetized YouTube channel can be
said to have "an economic motivation" irrespective of their true views or axe to grind.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
What evidence can we find to confirm that this is true?
why do we have to find evidence this is true? He is a science fiction writer.

But apparently he also has the smarts to provide evidence if there was any.
Article:
Taylor, according to his LinkedIn profile, has five advanced science degrees, including a Ph.D. in optical physics and a Ph.D. in aerospace and engineering, and is “currently working on advanced propulsion concepts, very large space telescopes, space-based beamed energy systems, and next generation space launch concepts.” He has published two academic textbooks and numerous peer-reviewed papers.


Article:
currently working on advanced propulsion concepts,

I wonder if he knows the mysterious Art's Parts are radiator fins.
 
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JMartJr

Senior Member
"Everybody who disagrees with me is a paid shill" is a popular meme.

And if you think about it, is not particularly relevant. If the debunk is true, the motivation for explaining it to people doesn't much matter. Accusations of "paid shill" are a lazy ad hominem attack -- if the debunk is wrong, present evidence to show that it is wrong.
 

econ41

Senior Member
"Everybody who disagrees with me is a paid shill" is a popular meme.
Yes, it seems to be generic across most Conspiracy Theory topics. I'm accused of shillery at least once per day in the couple of 9/11 forums I still follow. And I can't deny because remuneration arrangements are "Staff In Confidence".
Accusations of "paid shill" are a lazy ad hominem attack -- if the debunk is wrong, present evidence to show that it is wrong.
Yes. And most times it is also a "Projection" plus "Reversed Burden of DISproof" From a person who cannot even form a valid hypothesis supporting their claim to prima facie standard. i.e. in legal language they have no "case to answer" so there is no legitmate need for the case for the "defence". The claim should be "thrown out of court".
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
So, Travis Taylor, Scientific Advisor to the UAP Task Force seems to think that there's an organised group of debunkers who are paid to discredit UFOs.
?? Does that mean he thinks that only unpaid amateurs are appropriate debunkers? If they are people debunking them with facts and evidence, what does it matter if they are paid for their expertise? There is nothing suspicious or dishonorable about being paid to know what you're talking about. This sounds suspiciously like poisoning the well so that people will believe him by default, but that's not the way an honest discussion is held.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
So, Travis Taylor, Scientific Advisor to the UAP Task Force seems to think that there's an organised group of debunkers who are paid to discredit UFOs.

Can we get the fuller, in context quote from Taylor rather than the paraphrase with snippets from Greenstreet?
 

flarkey

Senior Member.
Staff member
I think the only people who are profiting from the UFO/UAP story are the ones promoting it on TV shows.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There is nothing suspicious or dishonorable about being paid to know what you're talking about.
well, i admit i am suspicious of him, Travis, as he is well paid for this ufo stuff he does.

(not suggesting Greenstreet makes alot, i never heard of Greenstreet before this thread)
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
But more importantly...how much could I potentially earn per debunk? And are payments backdated?
You'd be a wealthy man my friend! Well maybe. I guess it would depend on the payment schedule. Is it a salaried position with annual bonus or piece work, where you get paid per debunk? Maybe some stock options in the secret cabal?

Seriously though, this is borderline comical. TT will appear on all kinds of fringy nonsense like AA and I doubt it's for free, but then complains that there is paid de-bunkers out there? He's almost being the pot and the kettle.

And, even if there was wealthy person out there that was spiffing Flarky and others to show that the Chilian AF UFO is just an airliner, what is possibly illegal about it? People donate to causes they believe in all the time.

If it's legitimate de-bunk, then it's a legitimate de-bunk, regardless of whether someone was paid to figure it out. TT was paid by the UAP task force to figure out that boke of drones was in fact aliens. What's the difference?

I can't figure him out. Either he is all in as a UFOlogist, or he sees where his bread is increasingly buttered and is preaching to the choir. Hard. Really, The Men in Black?
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
an we get the fuller, in context quote from Taylor rather than the paraphrase with snippets from Greenstreet?
I haven't found it but haven't looked hard either. I did find this snippet on Jason Colavito's blog from Greenstreet's twitter where Dragon(?) is talking about finding out that TT was working for the UAP task force and therefore the Gov'ment the whole time he was interacting with these talking heads are in this little video. It's almost a little uncomfortable, as Dragon realizes TT has been playing both sides.

Is Dragon a code name or something or is this like a reality TV show, where everybody has a cool made-up screen name to heighten the drama?

...so it is of some interest that Ancient Aliens and Secret of Skinwalker Ranch star Travis Taylor, formerly on the government payroll studying UFOs, said during a live stream for paid members of the Skinwalker Ranch super-fans site that during his time in government employ, he used his position to provide “cover” for the ranch and prevent “Men in Black” from visiting the ranch. In short, he apparently confessed to being a double-agent actively undermining his government employer’s efforts in order to benefit a cable TV show.
Content from External Source
https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-ancient-aliens-s18e14-the-ufo-investigations

What Jason finds amusing is that as TT tries to wiggle out of this his spin is that he was protecting these 3 guys and Skinwalker ranch from the nefarious Men In Black that might be doing some illegal surveillance or something. Although he says they never actually found the MiB, just heard rumors. His rambling answer starts about :50 into the short bit.

What's more interesting is that the "they" TT refers to is once again Jay Stratton, the guy that was heading the UAP program or whatever it was. Stratton is likely referred to as Axelrod in the book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. So, as mentioned in other threads, that report giving to congress was prepared by a big time Skinwalker Ranch alum along with TT helping him out.

Source: https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1553049342298075138?s=20&t=qn8kzkgZB00_LGfJQaXO7w
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Can we get the fuller, in context quote from Taylor rather than the paraphrase with snippets from Greenstreet?
heres the full vid on youtube.. scroll down..there is a transcript option under the three dots.

you'll like he says skeptics don't understand the scientific method (in case youve been homesick for flat earth :) )

5:26
uh like green street for example have
5:28
have a motivation that's more than just
5:30
a personal motivation it's almost like
5:32
there's an economic motivation it's like
5:33
i mean for most of these people they're
5:34
into this topic because they find it
5:36
interesting or fascinating and they
5:37
pursue it and they're willing to
5:39
entertain very various other theories
5:41
and pursue it intellectually honestly
5:43
and it seems like guys like green street
5:44
they've got an adopted point of view and
5:47
that's the one that they want to stick
5:48
with
5:49
i don't want him to dominate our
5:50
conversation but i i have similar
5:52
feelings to what he does as a journalist

Content from External Source
@NorCal Dave what i did was click the original link in the OP twitter, and right on his page he had a youtube link
1663719206437.png

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jR2rX1WvCI
 
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jackfrostvc

Senior Member
At 4:30 in the video below , Travis says he got a Astronomy Master degree from the University of Western Sydney in Australia.
He goes on to say that as part of his thesis, he discovered 2 exoplanets
Anyone know which two planets he discovered?
It's cued up:

Source: https://youtu.be/Qkf-gFVK-Bc?t=270
 
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flarkey

Senior Member.
Staff member
At 4:30 in the video below , Travis says he got a Astronomy Master degree from the University of Western Sydney in Australia.
He goes on to say that as part of his thesis, he discovered 2 exoplanets
Anyone know which two planets he discovered?

Xenu and Nibiru? ;)
 

Mythic Suns

Member
"Everybody who disagrees with me is a paid shill" is a popular meme.
And one that I wish was true. If I was paid to make statements that people disagree with then I'd probably have enough money to end global poverty and still have enough spare change to live like a billionaire for the rest of my life.
 

MyMatesBrainwashed

Active Member
If such a group does exist then you have to question how good they are at doing the job they are being paid for.

Nevermind that discrediting will more likely reinforce the belief in these people.

This just ultimately wants to appeal to "they wouldn't fight it if it wasn't true" to justify their belief.

I'd be more inclined to believe the believers are funding debunkers. How does conspiracy not eat itself?
 

Scaramanga

Member
So, Travis Taylor, Scientific Advisor to the UAP Task Force seems to think that there's an organised group of debunkers who are paid to discredit UFOs.


Source: https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1571197516183654400?t=GOfHgV4RaJ7C6etJ_oiicw&s=09


What evidence can we find to confirm that this is true? Who are these shadowy members? Do they have a debunking website? But more importantly...how much could I potentially earn per debunk? And are payments backdated?

@sgreenstreet

Seriously ? The UAP Task Force is using Skinwalker Ranch guy Travis Taylor as their 'scientific' advisor ? What could possibly go wrong.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
Seriously ? The UAP Task Force is using Skinwalker Ranch guy Travis Taylor as their 'scientific' advisor ? What could possibly go wrong.
This actually makes sense, as the head of the UAP task force appears to have been Jay Stratton from navel intel. It's pretty likely that Stratton is the character called "Axelrod" in the book Skinwalker at the Pentagon and so, is a Skinwalker Ranch alum and believer himself.

Up until very recently, the entire US military UAP/UFO response runs through Skinwalker ranch.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Up until very recently, the entire US military UAP/UFO response runs through Skinwalker ranch.
Certainly, the weird part of it was. AATIP, etc. I doubt the rest of the military was simply ignoring every report of an unidentified object in their airspace.

But yes, if people want to follow the money, it's not sloshing around any skeptics or debunkers. It's in the military-UFO-entertainment complex. There are all kinds of interesting things going on there.

Even just entertainment. I keep getting producers suggesting I do a show with them, but then they run it up the flagpole and the executive say it's boring, and they want another Ancient Aliens or Skinwalker Ranch show.

It's pretty likely that Stratton is the character called "Axelrod" in the book Skinwalker at the Pentagon and so, is a Skinwalker Ranch alum and believer himself.
I thought that was confirmed, but I guess he isn't talking about it.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
I thought that was confirmed, but I guess he isn't talking about it.
I was just being careful. At one point Jason Colavito had a link to a Geroge Knapp story confirming this, but the link seems to have been removed:

Knapp broke the news that Jay Stratton, the former head of the Pentagon’s UAP Task Force, has resigned from the Pentagon and is joining Radiance Technologies to work on UFO issues. Stratton is almost certainly the “Axelrod” from Knapp’s Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, an official, radicalized by Bigelow and by Knapp’s first Skinwalker Ranch book, who claimed to be haunted by poltergeists and werewolves after visiting the ranch. “Axelrod” claims credit for keeping the UFO topic going after the end of AAWSAP and is responsible for bringing a “dapper” Lue Elizondo into the UFO fold. He is also very likely the unnamed Pentagon official who fed Politico’s Bryan Bender approving quotes about Elizondo and Chris Mellon for the past four years to give their wild claims official-sounding cover.
Content from External Source
https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/midweek-ufo-update-revenge-of-the-skinwalker-ranch-ghostbusters

So, it seems to be one of those "common knowledge" things that isn't confirmed. I'll keep digging.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
Steven Greenstreet seems convinced as well.
Thanks Mendel. I found other Twitter things, but not being a Twitter guy it's hard to chase things down.

In the Greenstreet's TT Twitter video, TT says "I know...I know Axelrod well, I know who he is." (0:14). And we know TT contracted to the UAP task force run by Stratton, but it's still all inuendo and reasoned speculation. I can see, having read Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, where Stratton as a professional in the military intelligence complex, might want to downplay his being Axelrod in the book.
 

jackfrostvc

Senior Member
Lot's of talk about whether Stratton is Axelrod from Skinwalkers at the Pentagon.
But for those who haven't read the book, what does that mean. And by that I mean, what does the book claim about Axelrod?
 

LilWabbit

Senior Member
Even just entertainment. I keep getting producers suggesting I do a show with them, but then they run it up the flagpole and the executive say it's boring, and they want another Ancient Aliens or Skinwalker Ranch show.

Maybe Marvel could get excited if you suggest that the chief debunker wears a cape, full-body tights and a big S for 'skeptic' glowing ominously on his forehead while his silverfox locks flutter in the wind like a shampoo commercial.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Lot's of talk about whether Stratton is Axelrod from Skinwalkers at the Pentagon.
But for those who haven't read the book, what does that mean. And by that I mean, what does the book claim about Axelrod?

He was someone working with Bigelow. He claimed to have lots of ridiculous-sounding paranormal experiences, including with his family at home.


The sun had almost completely set behind Skinwalker Ridge as the three comrades set off on their walk towards the west end of the ranch. They were in high spirits as they sauntered along the dusty trail, joking about some of their past missions and reminiscing about what had brought them to this strange place. They had flown from the East Coast the previous day and were on Skinwalker Ranch in Utah at the invitation of Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS). All three were seasoned warriors who had spent time in the war torn reaches of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Jonathan Axelrod was the acknowledged leader of the trio. A senior aerospace engineer in Naval Intelligence, his career had already spanned an upward trajectory, and his calm demeanor and infectious sense of humor enabled him to move easily in Pentagon circles. That same year, 2009, Axelrod was also the lead investigator of the now infamous “Tic Tac” case that had embroiled the Nimitz Aircraft Carrier Strike Group in a series of cat and mouse high stakes games off the coast of San Diego a few years previously. The so-called Tic Tac had out-maneuvered and out-performed multiple F/A-18 Hornets, leaving these top gun fighters from the Nimitz in the dust. Axelrod had personally interviewed all the pilots involved in the incident as well as the several radar operators on the USS Princeton and others on the USS Nimitz itself.

At the time of Axelrod’s arrival at Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, he had not yet completed the sub rosa Nimitz investigation. He had no inkling that his covert UAP investigation would explode onto the front page of The New York Times in December 2017. Axelrod was well versed in investigating anomalies, utilizing a thoroughly professional approach. His demeanor instantly put skittish military aviators at ease; he reassured them that there would be no negative career consequences for their testimony. Axelrod was, and is, the consummate military professional, but on that serene evening on Skinwalker Ranch he had no idea what he was about to run into.

Lacatski, James; Kelleher, Colm; Knapp, George. Skinwalkers at the Pentagon: An Insiders' Account of the Secret Government UFO Program (pp. 23-24). RTMA, LLC. Kindle Edition.

During a second call about a month later, Axelrod reported an alarming escalation in anomalous activity at his home. All of the activity appeared to be directed against his family. On several occasions, Axelrod was out of town. Axelrod reported that while he was on one mission overseas, his 16-year-old son, Paul, woke at night with multiple small blue “orbs” flying around his room; occasionally, one would fly very close to him. According to Paul, the orbs appeared to be moving under some kind of control. When he began yelling, his mother ran in the room, but the orbs were instantly gone. Even after the bizarre night with the orbs, Ruth continued seeing shadow-like figures in her home, and she routinely heard loud noises down in the kitchen after everybody had gone to bed. Ruth and Jonathan Axelrod were certain that these events had begun after he had returned home from his trip to Skinwalker Ranch.

Later, an even more bizarre event with strong links to the Skinwalker Ranch erupted in the Axelrod home. Again, Jonathan was out of town on a work assignment. It was after midnight, and Ruth had turned off all the lights in the kitchen and was preparing to go upstairs when her eye caught a movement out in the yard. She walked over to the window for a better look, then froze as she witnessed one of the most bizarre sights she had ever beheld. Standing upright and leaning against one of the trees at the perimeter of her yard was a huge wolf-like creature. She saw the creature plainly in the dim night light. It had long hair and looked like a wolf. But it was standing on two legs. Ruth stood paralyzed, feeling both confusion and a kind of dread.

The creature appeared to be staring right at her; its gaze was not friendly. She continued to stare at this eerie sight, trying to fathom the impossibility of an upright wolf-like creature in a quiet, upper middle-class suburban Virginia neighborhood. The creature then took one last look at her, turned, and walked slowly on two legs further into the tree line. Within minutes, she had lost sight of it. She stood there a long time trying to determine if she had just had a very intense hallucination, or if her mind was beginning to go. The scene had been so bizarre and frightening she decided not to call her husband or to tell her kids. The kids were stable and well-adjusted, but Ruth had noticed that they were on edge from the unexplained events that had happened in their household. Ruth went to bed and tried to put the surreal vision out of her mind.

Three days later, at about 10:30 on a bright Saturday morning, the two teenage Axelrod sons were downstairs in the living room. When Paul got up to stretch his legs, a movement in the yard caught his eye, and he gasped in astonishment at the sight of a huge wolf-like creature standing on two legs in the backyard staring straight at him. Alerted by his brother’s gasp, Michael jumped up and saw the seven-foot-tall “wolf” gazing menacingly at them. The animal appeared to be completely comfortable standing on two legs. Both Axelrod boys felt a sense of fear. Suddenly the beast took off running towards the tree line, its long brown, black hair blowing in the rapid movement. The beast ran easily and fluidly on its hind legs with long strides seemingly impossible for normal canine anatomy. Both boys stood in silence as the wolf was soon lost in the trees that bordered the Axelrod property. The thick insulated windows had prevented them from hearing any sound from the beast’s transit across their yard. A couple of hours later when Ruth came back, the boys breathlessly told their mother about the event. Ruth felt a deep chill as they excitedly described in detail an apparition identical to what she had seen a few nights previously and that she was still hoping was a hallucination.

Lacatski, James; Kelleher, Colm; Knapp, George. Skinwalkers at the Pentagon: An Insiders' Account of the Secret Government UFO Program (pp. 28-29). RTMA, LLC. Kindle Edition.

Content from External Source
 

Mythic Suns

Member
Maybe Marvel could get excited if you suggest that the chief debunker wears a cape, full-body tights and a big S for 'skeptic' glowing ominously on his forehead while his silverfox locks flutter in the wind like a shampoo commercial.
Skepticism...because you're worth it.
 

RTM

Member
Maybe Marvel could get excited if you suggest that the chief debunker wears a cape, full-body tights and a big S for 'skeptic' glowing ominously on his forehead while his silverfox locks flutter in the wind like a shampoo commercial.
One of the new X-Men could be called Skeptik. His special power is pouring cold water on things.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
because an unknown entity that I've never met has told me I'm worth it.
Oh, come on! Who wouldn't want an unknown entity to tell them "Your worth it!"? Especially if no known entity is telling them that.

Just to pick up on Jason's blog about Stratton going to work for Radiance Technologies:

Knapp broke the news that Jay Stratton, the former head of the Pentagon’s UAP Task Force, has resigned from the Pentagon and is joining Radiance Technologies to work on UFO issues.
Content from External Source
Look at who else has joined Radiance:


1665453995877.png

Huntsville, Alabama — Dr. Travis S. Taylor, scientist, author, engineer and star of television shows such as the National Geographic Channel’s “Rocket City Rednecks” and the History Channel’s “The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch,” joins Radiance Technologies (Radiance) as a Principal Research Scientist. Taylor will be supporting technical activities across the company as part of Radiance’s Defense Sector.

“I’m a hands-on type of researcher, and I really look forward to getting acquainted with all the work being done at Radiance and what we might do that is new in the future,” said Taylor.

Taylor boasts a doctorate in aerospace systems engineering, a doctorate in optical science and engineering, a master’s degree in physics, a master’s degree in mechanical and aerospace engineering and a master’s degree in astronomy. With a 20-year career supporting NASA, the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command and other customers. An accomplished writer, he has written two textbooks, over 15 papers and 21 science fiction novels.

“Dr. Taylor is an outstanding and highly qualified scientist whose inventive way of thinking will be a great asset for Radiance,” said Radiance CEO Bill Bailey.
https://www.radiancetech.com/dr-travis-s-taylor-joins-radiance-technologies/

I'm trying to track down who else in the military/UAP complex has gone to work for Radiance. Some of these guys aren't big on making LinkedIn pages.
Content from External Source
Content from External Source
 

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