Claim: The Plasmoid Unification Model (PUM) of Malcolm Bendall provides "free energy".

[Mauro]

wouldn't the wire (or whatever makes the conndction) melt first?

It depends on the resistance of the heating element vs. the resistance of the wire, a resistive electric heater can glow red without the wire cord heating too much. Another possibility is induction heating.

 

[NorCal Dave]

wouldn't the wire (or whatever makes the conndction) melt first?

I don't think so. It would be similar to this electric space heater:


It probably has no more than a 14 gauge cord to plug it into the wall. The wire in the cord would be copper as it has very low resistance, that's why buildings are wired with copper. The copper wire can easily carry the current needed from the wall socket to the heater, where the current then encounters the heating elements that are much more resistive than the copper wire, so they heat up. This particular unit uses some sort of ceramic elements, which I assume are highly resistive, as this is intended to be a space heater.

In the case of the TG, if some of the copper wiring from the ICE Generator got connected to the stainless-steel of the TG ,it would be the same effect, though likely not as efficient.

Here is a resistance chart for common metals, showing that copper is far less resistive and therefore a better conductor than Stainless-steel:


So again, the stainless-steel TG is just heating up due to it being more resistive than copper wire and acting like a simple heating element. At least, that was my thought as a possible explanation.

Obviously there becomes a point at which there is too much current for the size wire being used and it melts, that's why fuses/circuit breakers and wire sizes go together.

 

[Mendel]

The copper wire can easily carry the current needed from the wall socket to the heater, where the current then encounters the heating elements that are much more resistive than the copper wire, so they heat up. This particular unit uses some sort of ceramic elements, which I assume are highly resistive, as this is intended to be a space heater.

In the case of the TG, if some of the copper wiring from the ICE Generator got connected to the stainless-steel of the TG ,it would be the same effect, though likely not as efficient.

the heating elements in that space heater look like glass tubes with thin wire coils inside them, similar to these:


ceramic heating elements often feature coils of thin wire as well

the problem with the TG is that its steel casing offers many times the cross-section of the power wires; it would have to be quite thin to not match or exceed the ×50 difference in resistivity

 

[NorCal Dave]

the problem with the TG is that its steel casing offers many times the cross-section of the power wires; it would have to be quite thin to not match or exceed the ×50 difference in resistivity

Like I said, I'm engaging in a bit of hopefully reasoned speculation. The claim of over-unity isn't based on standard test of the ICE generator's output relative to the energy input compared to it's output while hooked up Bendall's device. Until there is abundant independent confirmation that the ICE generator and the device are outputting more energy than all possible energy inputs, you and I are going to dismiss it as an unproven claim.

However, I did find a number of people that bought his unusual claim that the glowing hot TG was proof, so how to explain it.

This is the best picture there is of it being built. It's not very helpful other than to show its size:



Here it is "working" and glowing:



As it's supposed to be a "reaction chamber" and hollow, I think it's certainly plausible it's made from relatively thin metal.

This is the best picture of the ICE Generator used:



Which appears to be this, a Welpro SC6000E-THD:



I found it here: http://www.ppeinter.com/เครื่องกำเนิดไฟฟ้า-Welpro/SC6000E-THD.html

A Thai company, which makes sense as this test was claimed to have been done in Bangkok. It puts out 5500 watts at 230 volts with a 22 amp breaker. So, a regular #12 copper wire should be able to carry the max output of this unit. I'm thinking it's enough current to heat up the TG, if it's walls are thin enough.

This all assumes the TG is being heated by something going on in the device and it's not a straight-out hoax with the TG plugged in a high amperage wall socket somewhere, was heated up with a blowtorch or they painted it red.

As mentioned, I don't know my chemistry well enough to know if it's possible that hydrogen from the claimed electrolysis stage is being combusted in the chamber, but if that were the case, the energy in the H would have to be added to the energy in the gasoline when determining if it's over-unity.

All other screenshots from: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5cc...+ENERGY+FROM+WATER+PLASMOID+PROTIUM+POWER.pdf

 

[deirdre]

However, I did find a number of people that bought his unusual claim that the glowing hot TG was proof, so how to explain it.

is a muffler different than the piece on the TG?

 

[NorCal Dave]

is a muffler different than the piece on the TG?

It's supposed to be something different, but if one looks at the diagram it is in effect acting as a muffler, or at least an intermediate one. It's between the ICE generator's regular muffler and Bendell's added on final muffler. The claim is that the exhaust gas coming out of the regular muffler is at 241C. I think your pictures are of high-performance engines running flat out, something I wouldn't think a common generator would be capable of, but it's at least another possibility.

Here's a screen grab from his video showing the device working. The TG seems to be connected directly to the cylinder head of the ICE generator. So, the TG IS the muffler. Note the fitting between the TG and the cylinder head, it's called a union, a standard plumbing part for gas lines. It looks as if it's glowing a bit too. It's likely black gas pipe made of cast iron and much thicker than the thin walled TG:



IF the ICE generator is running hard enough to make the cast iron union glow, then it would certainly be hot enough to make the TG glow. It could also be that whatever is heating up the TG is passing some of that heat onto the union.

But clearly the TG is functioning as the primary muffler. Good call.

 

[NorCal Dave]

But clearly the TG is functioning as the primary muffler. Good call.

To follow up a bit, here's some in info on glowing exhaust manifolds. To correct myself above, the TG is functioning almost as an exhaust manifold rather than a muffler:

This problem is common to petrol, diesel, and gas engines. Glowing of the exhaust manifold/turbocharger has to do with the burning of the fuel beyond the combustion chambers, and causing excess heat to be collected in the exhaust manifolds.

There are lots of factots responsible for this condition. Among other problems are;

1. Clogged catalytic converter.

2. Retarded ignition timing.

3. Faulty gas pressure regulator.

4. Bad injectors/nozzles.

5. Failed turbocharger.

6. Faulty governor setting.

7. Wrong valve lash adjustment/injector height setting.

8. Wrong air-fuel ratio.

9. Clogged exhaust gas re-circulation EGR valve.

10. Leakage along the air line after the compression end of the turbocharger.

11. Restriction along the air line or exhaust line.

12. Defect on the inlet or exhaust valves.

Content from External Source

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/glowing-engine-exhaust-manifoldturbocharger-causes-olufemi/

Note that many of the problems listed could be the result of trying to incorporate the ICE generator with Bendell's other devices. Other generator forums seem to indicate a bit of a glowing manifold/muffler isn't that uncommon:

Glowing exhaust is normal. I wouldn't be taking anything apart to try to correct it.

Content from External Source

My Honda 6500 genny muffler would glow at times.

Content from External Source

Still glows in the dark. Gas just burns hot, I guess.

Content from External Source

Also, from the same forum there is this possible explanation (bold by me):

Clean the carb and keep the MMO running through it. All of my exhausts run 600*F-700*F by the non contact thermometer including an old 16HP Montgomery Wards Gilson Tractor. It used to run really hot until I cleaned all the water out of the float, adjusted it, and ran some additives through it.

Content from External Source

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/generator-muffler-glowing-orange.141695/

Recall that the various devices are adding water into the system. This screengrab shows water dripping and puddling under the TG:

 

[Mendel]

so the TG glowing would potentially indicate that the engine is operating inefficiently, with combustion taking place in the TG and not in the cylinders

and since the mechanical power output is never getting measured, this escapes detection

beware the old adage of conspiracy theorists, "anything I don't understand supports my view"—apparently it also applies to woo engineering

 

[deirdre]

Good call.

i personally still dont understand any of it, even with your posts -as i dont know what an exhaust manifold vs a muffler is etc (or any of the other parts int he system) i just remember one of my friends talking about a red pipe (or a header if a header is different than a pipe). And i do know that water in your gas tank is bad although i have no idea why.

This is my way of saying, that if you want to explain why the TG is glowing uisng this muffler thing...just remember that people likely dont know what any of those parts are or how engines work etc, so be sure to explain it to them ELI5 which is something this forum tends to forget to do quite often.

Article:

Welcome to Explain Like I’m Five (ELI5)!

Our mission is to simplify complex topics and make them easy to understand. We use optimized AI to make everything simple for you, without technical jargon. We also keep a lighthearted and fun tone to make learning enjoyable.

Source: https://explainlikeimfive.io/

 

[deirdre]

11. Restriction along the air line or exhaust line.

i did notice the TG thing is skinny ..more like a curtain rod than muffler sized. could that be backing stuff up?

 

[NorCal Dave]

so the TG glowing would potentially indicate that the engine is operating inefficiently, with combustion taking place in the TG and not in the cylinders

Yes, I think that's certainly possible, but there may be something else going on too. The claim is that the "exhaust gas temperature" (EGT) entering the TG is ~241C. This is below a normal range of EGTs for small generators. Here is a screengrab from the video showing the various temp readings:



Note that none of them are labeled EGT, but one is labeled "manifold" and while it's hard to read, it says 244C and a few seconds after this shot it raises to 301C. Nothing is labeled or explained much, but what if the "manifold" sensor is this one on top of the cylinder head, or possibly just below the union?




It's no measuring the EGT, the actual exhaust gas, rather, it's measuring the temperature of the cylinder head or maybe the union connecting the cylinder head to the TG. If so, then 241C is a perfectly normal temperature for a cylinder head on an air-cooled generator:



That it pops up to 300C probably means its overheating and not running correctly. We've already established that the EGT for a generator can get up to 487C with 315C being the normal average. Now take another look at the temperatures. The two highest numbers here are 301c for the manifold and 362C for the "lower pipe".



These temperatures are with the TG glowing red hot. He's measuring the temperature of the exterior manifold or cylinder head and then measuring the temperature of the TG, but he's not measuring the temperature of the exhaust gases flowing into the TG.

We have an overheating generator producing hotter than normal exhaust gases that are then flowing into a thin walled Tg and heating it up to the temperature of that exhaust gas.

It might fit with his list too. If T1 below is the same as "lower pipe1" and T4 is the same as "manifold" then they go together similar to what we're seeing on the above temperature read outs:



The max temperature of 767C could be a transitory spike after a few minutes of the generator running really, really hot. Note also the claim of a minimum temperature of -86.3C on T3 at the same time T1 was spiking. If I understand it all, while the outer shell of the TG was reaching 767C, the inner section was outputting air(?) at -86C.

i did notice the TG thing is skinny ..more like a curtain rod than muffler sized. could that be backing stuff up?

Yes, back pressure is a contributing factor. Besides being skinny, the cut away shows that there is another inner pipe, so even less space for the exhaust gasses to go. If it becomes to restrictive then the motor will stop running.

And I will work on a ELI5 post later this evening.

EDIT: picture didn't work, fixed now.

 

[deirdre]

That it pops up to 300C probably means its overheating and not running correctly.

the literature all says it has to reach 300c for the TG to be "operational" too. i was wondering where you got the 241c from.

(would be nice if all the reading minutes matched so we could see what everything was doing simultaneously )
page 9 of 28

The Bendall engine ignition begins with the use of fossil fuel in order to heat the THunderstorm Generator to operational temperatures. Once the Thunderstorm Generator has reached its opeational temperature (around 300C) our plasmoid fuel is introduced where it is charged.

Content from External Source

https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5cc...+ENERGY+FROM+WATER+PLASMOID+PROTIUM+POWER.pdf

 

[deirdre]

And I will work on a ELI5 post later this evening.

i suggest too a new OPthread with only the specific claim "red glowing TG proves such and such".. so outside readers can find your info easier without losing interest from all the astronomy/protium weirdness and character attacks on page 1. ??

 

[JohnHoward]

Yes, I think that's certainly possible, but there may be something else going on too.

Thanks much for the deep dive! The posts just above with pics & diagrams of the TG got me wondering if this entire thing is just an obfuscated version of the old 200 mpg vaporizer / Pogue / Winnipeg / dry gas carburetor? Many versions have been tried but the common factor is always using heat to vaporise fuel into smaller particles than the normal droplets produced by venturi action that apparently only burn on the surface. Pollution known as unburned hydrocarbons / fuel droplets that are still burning as they exit the cylinder, hence glowing red exhaust manifolds, are the reason we need catalytic converters to burn it up. It does sound reasonable that burning vaporised / dry gasoline one molecule at a time might result in more complete combustion in the engine cylinders, and result in a much cleaner exhaust. Sound familiar? I never understood all the stoichiometric ratio business, but I‘ve seen fire coming out exhaust and that does seem like wasted energy.

I went to a popular seminar on 200mpg carburetors in the late 70s and at that time dabbled a bit with some crude home built devices designed to heat gasoline and allow the vapors to be sucked into engine. The simplest one was simply a converted air cleaner housing with filter element removed & a float bowl set to maintain a puddle of gasoline inside. A channel to circulate hot water from radiator was plumbed directly under the puddle of gas that started to boil once engine was up to normal operating temp. At this point engine was obviosly running very rich & producing black exhaust smoke. A fuel tank switching valve was rigged to shut off fuel supply to the OEM carb and once it ran dry the car ran normally, although prone to stumble on acceleration. 3 of us went for a 20-30 mile ride at freeway speeds. The car eventually started stalling so the fuel supply was switched back to regular carb and driven back to the shop. Inspection revealed our puddle of gas was now reduced to dark brown sludge. We had burned off the lighter elements and were stuck with the heavy ones that were maybe on their way to becoming something like asphalt. We had no way to accurately measure fuel used on that trip but it seemed the mileage was maybe 2-3 times better than normal on the fuel that was actually burned, but factoring in the unburned sludge we were stuck with, it’s doubtful there was a great improvement. The seminar folks predicted this would happen! Not enough heat is available from 200 degree coolant to totally vaporise heavier elements of gas.

The Pogue device used exhaust heat I believe, swirled together in a chamber around incoming mixture, (again sounding TG like) and supposedly worked better on 1930s vintage gas produced via “cracking vs splitting” (or vice versa maybe) refinery processes. I remember the gas lines! I can believe refining science changes with a fuel crisis to get the most usable product from a barrel of oil! The seminar folks insisted a Pogue carburetor would sludge up on todays gas too, and the only way to get these vaporizer devices to work with modern gasoline was to heat small amounts of gasoline, on throttle demand, with much higher heat to totally vaporize all elements instantly as they are introduced to intake manifold. At this point the devices need to get a lot more complicated because they require electric heating in a pressurized vessel, sealed to exclude oxygen, and resulting spontaneous combustion, before vapor is introduced to cylinder where it can produce power. That thing in Bendall‘s device supposedly dripping “water“ into a puddle sounds suspiciously similar to seminar examples of the “best” way to achieve total vaporization. Are we sure it’s dripping water? Or is it possibly a hidden fuel source? That bubbler thing also sounds like something that was part of the vaporizer carb seminar.

Nobody in the entire “miracle carburetor craze” ever suggested there was anything more than better fuel vaporization taking place. No plasma vortex creating free energy. Google does mention Pogue using the term “catalytic carburetor” but I don’t know if that involved a new claim or was just jargon to impress. There were those who claimed they could run engines on water but I’m not aware of anyone driving them down the road like we did in my friends car. We came to the conclusion by 1980 that there may be fragments of truth that could be exaggerated, to make an impressive demonstration, but little to be actually gained. The things we built were crude. They needed skills similar to those involved in firing up a steam locomotive to get them going and involved the constant possibility of backfires setting the whole thing on fire. The seminar folks even showed those making gas heaters in their air cleaners how to install a taller threaded stud, with a spring under the nut, to allow for backfire explosions to let the WOOF lift the top then largely self extinguish the fire, and they told us to ALWAYS keep the fire extinguisher handy! It did get used!

You can get an engine to run on fuel vapor but it’s not something you would let the wife & kids drive In traffic. If it’s your only means of daily transport the problem is much greater & getting it going in sub zero temperatures might be impossible. Some early internal combustion engines circa 1800 something did use heat to vaporize fuel but they may have been doing it with a much more basic petroleum blend like kerosene or Coleman gas??? Bendall using a gas engine driven generator makes me wonder if he is simply using electric heating elements somewhere to better heat / vaporize some hidden gas? Does he tell us anywhere how much of that 6500 watts he is using? If we had proceeded to experiment with pressurized electrically heated vaporizers in 79 we expected to greatly increase the size & output of the alternator, possibly add a dedicated one just for said vaporizer. Bendall’s gizmo sounds similar, maybe some added bells & whistles?

 

[Mendel]

You can get an engine to run on fuel vapor but it’s not something you would let the wife & kids drive In traffic.

just run it on autogas/LPG/propane, then

commercial vehicles and a distribution network exist in many countries

 

[JohnHoward]

just run it on autogas/LPG/propane, then

Indeed. There are vehicles converted to propane, mostly commercial, as noted. I believe there is less energy in a given amount compared to gasoline, so larger tanks are needed. The one pickup I knew of had a tank about the size of a 55 gallon drum permanently mounted in the bed. Cuts into cargo capacity, and not as easy to find a fueling station, but with planning it can be done. Indoor forklifts & other engine powered machines are often propane powered, the advantage being cleaner exhaust for better indoor air quality. The ones at the lumber mill used 30 pound cylinders that swapped in minutes for full ones as needed. The guy with the pickup was in the propane business & said it used more, but his per gallon cost was less, so a good deal for him but not a great saving for most. Refueling infrastructure is maybe on par with electric car charging?

It does make the point about better vaporization but certainly is no miracle like a 200mpg carburetor would be on a 20mpg car. Helps debunk the myth maybe.

 

[NorCal Dave]

200 mpg vaporizer / Pogue / Winnipeg / dry gas carburetor?

I remember those claims. Seems as late as the early '00s I had a friend whose dad had a cousin that had friend that built a 50-200+MPG carburetor. But it was always 2-3 people removed.

It could almost use its own thread, but in the modern era of fuel injection and the advent of BEV cars, it's kinda just nostalgia.

The whole thing reminds me of my first introduction to over-unity when I read an article about The Newman Energy Machine. Note the similarities, like advancing Einstein's theories and the religious tie ins:

Joseph Westley Newman

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(July 2, 1936 – March 6, 2015) was an American inventor and author who developed an "energy machine" deemed by the US Patent and Trademark Office to be a perpetual motion machine. He described this device in a book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman. Newman alleged that he had a mechanical explanation for Albert Einstein's unified field theory of physics.

Content from External Source

In 1987 he announced a run for the American Presidency, claiming that God had instructed him to run in order that the extinction of humanity by 1999 might be averted, and that Nostradamus had predicted his existence.[8] In 1989 Newman claimed, while already married, to have married his secretary and her 8-year-old daughter, acting on orders from God.

Content from External Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Westley_Newman