Claim: Organ donors give up their right of being totally dead before donating & may still feel pain

Esther L

New Member
Can someone give me links to prove or disprove what this doctor, Dr. claims to be true?
... He states that there are many cases where so called :dead people: still feel pain when their organs are removed based on signs of increased B/P and major twitching movements. He says, there should be more tests done to prove one is really dead and that if you don't sign a donor card, you and your relatives will have more leverage in getting these tests done before allowing organ donation.
http://worldtruth.tv/what-you-lose-when-you-sign-that-organ-donor-card-shocking/
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Can someone give me links to prove or disprove what this doctor, Dr. claims to be true?
... He states that there are many cases where so called :dead people: still feel pain when their organs are removed based on signs of increased B/P and major twitching movements. He says, there should be more tests done to prove one is really dead and that if you don't sign a donor card, you and your relatives will have more leverage in getting these tests done before allowing organ donation.
http://worldtruth.tv/what-you-lose-when-you-sign-that-organ-donor-card-shocking/
its a long article. I'm having a hard time finding your section.
1. what doctor is making these claims?
2. can you copy/paste his exact claim. as my quick, brief read through I'm not really seeing your interpretation of the claim.

as far as organ donor law, it seems each country has different laws. so are we talking the United States here?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Can someone give me links to prove or disprove what this doctor, Dr. claims to be true?
... He states that there are many cases where so called :dead people: still feel pain when their organs are removed based on signs of increased B/P and major twitching movements. He says, there should be more tests done to prove one is really dead and that if you don't sign a donor card, you and your relatives will have more leverage in getting these tests done before allowing organ donation.
http://worldtruth.tv/what-you-lose-when-you-sign-that-organ-donor-card-shocking/
Hi Esther, and welcome.
I read the article...
While WorldTruth.tv is, in general, a terribly unreliable source, this particular article is basically a re-print from the
somewhat more reputable (well, on certain matters, anyway) ;) Wall Street Journal
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598

Dr. Robert Truog is clearly not making any claim that dead people still feel pain...he only says that he didn't use the
'rock' metaphor...likely because it could be interpreted as insensitive to families...
Possibly telling, though: Truog does not seem
to distance himself from the implications (that dead = no pain) of the 'rock' quote.

Author Dick Tirisi
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/books/review/the-undead-by-dick-teresi.html?_r=0
writes about science stuff, but is not and has never been a doctor, so that can't be who you
mean, either.



ETA: As I was typing this long-winded response, deirdre basically cut to the chase:
that there doesn't seem to be any doctor making any such claim...
 
Last edited:

Hevach

Senior Member.
The claims of donors showing signs of surgical distress are true - there are medically documented cases, and there's dispute about whether they were simply unsuitable donors (i.e. not yet brain dead) or if a genuine phenomenon of physiological response without a neurological one.

However, all that is irrelevant with regards to organ donor cards. Yes, doctors have skirted rules, half-assed tests, harvested organs from unsavable patients rather than simply brain dead ones (technically this improves the chances of a successful transplant, since organs can start dying very quickly after the brain even with life support hooked up, so as awful a thing as it is, there's medical incentive), but none of those are nefarious terms you agree to when you sign your organ donor card... They're medical malpractice.

It happens with all types of donations, not just card donors. What the article omits is that those are legally and ethically required in ALL CASES, the United Network for Organ Sharing has allowed perfectly viable organs to be discarded rather than donated if they find these tests lacking. If a doctor will half-ass or outright falsify them for a card donor, they will half-ass or outright falsify them to the family as well.

In fact, there's a slightly better chance of that working if the family approves the donation, because in that case, the doctor seeking the donation can request a directed donation to a specific patient, bypassing the transplant list and keeping any approval process in the hospital, where an outside transplant board like UNOS can't reject the organ.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
its also in the wall street journal, which is odd considering the inconsistencies and quote from Dr. truog that he never said such a thing.


inconsistencies such as:

but then the article mentions the Uniform Determination of Death Act which states no brain activity anywhere.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
an informative thread/forum of a transcript response to the article.

 

Esther L

New Member
Hi Esther, and welcome.
I read the article...
While WorldTruth.tv is, in general, a terribly unreliable source, this particular article is basically a re-print from the
somewhat more reputable (well, on certain matters, anyway) ;) Wall Street Journal
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598

Dr. Robert Truog is clearly not making any claim that dead people still feel pain...he only says that he didn't use the
'rock' metaphor...likely because it could be interpreted as insensitive to families...
Possibly telling, though: Truog does not seem
to distance himself from the implications (that dead = no pain) of the 'rock' quote.

Author Dick Tirisi
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/books/review/the-undead-by-dick-teresi.html?_r=0
writes about science stuff, but is not and has never been a doctor, so that can't be who you
mean, either.



ETA: As I was typing this long-winded response, deirdre basically cut to the chase:
that there doesn't seem to be any doctor making any such claim...

Thank you No Party, I had forgot to insert the dr's name, Dr. Robert Truog, is who I was referring to. But I was wondering if the article was legit in that some people can feel pain during the harvesting of their organs.
Whether this is unethical or illegal, won't affect the "dead" person but it will sure make their last minutes on earth a living hell. :-(
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Thank you No Party, I had forgot to insert the dr's name, Dr. Robert Truog, is who I was referring to. But I was wondering if the article was legit in that some people can feel pain during the harvesting of their organs.
Whether this is unethical or illegal, won't affect the "dead" person but it will sure make their last minutes on earth a living hell. :-(
read through all the links provided. (blue text)

Efft up's shows what procedures are required. and other links talk of brain dead vs pain. if the total brain is not functioning (as per law..the TOTAL brain) then there would not be an ability to feel pain. seems to be the consensus of what I've read researching your article. and Dr. Truog (in that article) says they don't feel pain.

if the authors 'evidence' is twitching, as you put it... see my response above yours. the twitching is not evidence of brain activity according to Drs.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Yes, I think we are a LONG way from the Monty Python "Live Organ Transplants" (I decided NOT to link the video).

I can't remember if this was the US or the UK I was rerading but there was definitely something about 2 doctors being required to declare brain death and NEITHER was allowed to be part of the organ tranplanting procedure (so you don;t get a dr hanging about for a liver going "yeah, he;s definitely dead"

I am sure the link I posted ALSO said they have to monitor them for 6 hours AFTER brain death declared to make sure there is nothing that would suggest it was a misdiagnosis.

It is sad, because it is certainly clear this type of malpractice is rare if ever happening but a scare story like this will put people off donating, and as such is as damaging to overall health as antivaxxers.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
This is the standard UK procedure...
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Organ-donation/Pages/Donationprocess.aspx

 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Rory Claim: Covid vaccines contains self-aware aluminum parasites Coronavirus COVID-19 34
T Claim: Offguardian article claiming that Covid PCR testing is flawed and not reliable Coronavirus COVID-19 8
Edward Current Does the beginning part of Gimbal debunk the claim that the object rotates? UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 9
SkepticSteve Claim: Existence of an Allied Forces Report about a 1963 Mass UFO Sighting in Europe UFOs and Aliens 10
Rory Claim: Harriet Hall says that acupuncture isn't "ancient" and maybe doesn't come from China Health and Quackery 0
Rory Debunked: UK undertaker's claim that Covid vaccine is responsible for spike in deaths Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Claim: Faraday Cage Experiment with radios contacts Non-Human Intelligence UFOs and Aliens 48
Oystein Debunked: Claim that Bobby McIlvaine's injuries ("lacerations") are best explained as result of glass shards and debris from bombs 9/11 22
J Claim: Genomic analysis of SARS-CoV-2 shows that it already existed in other countries such as France, India, Netherlands, England and United States Coronavirus COVID-19 1
D Claim: Videos of people exhaling vape smoke through a mask, demonstrate masks as useless against a virus.. Coronavirus COVID-19 42
Peter Robert Malone and Steve Kirsch claim spike protein is Cytotoxic Coronavirus COVID-19 19
Rory Claim: The Indian/Chinese systems of nadis/meridians have been proved by science because of hyaluronic acid and piezoelectricity Health and Quackery 113
V Needs debunking: flat earthers claim this reflection to show a harness in ISS video Flat Earth 10
T Claim: Communist Gus Hall express support for LBJ's Great Society Quotes Debunked 3
P Claim: Ghost of deceased Soldier, Freddy Jackson, captured in a photo UFOs and Aliens 18
T Claim: Heritage Foundation article asserts that Sex Ed programs encourage porn use General Discussion 6
T Claim: Willi Munzenberg said that ''We must make Western Civilisation stink'' Quotes Debunked 2
H CLAIM: USS Omaha videos were taken on the ship's "Combat Information Center" by "VIPER team" UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 5
gtoffo CLAIM: Sen. Martin Heinrich on UFOs (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Member) UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 10
R Flat Earth Claim: "The Greatest Laser Experiment In History" - FECORE Flat Earth 11
Mick West Claim that the Nimitz FLIR1 object could not be a plane because it would have been Identified UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 54
T Claim: Jim Hoffman's "9/11 progressive collapse challenge" can't be met 9/11 353
BigFatAtheist Claim: MI Court: Michigan Secretary of State’s Absentee Ballot Order Broke Law, Vindicating Trump Claim Election 2020 6
TEEJ Debunked: Claim that Joe Biden's hand passes through microphone during White House press gaggle, 16th March 2021 Election 2020 8
S Claim: "Most U.S. terror deaths have come from 'extreme right wing groups' in recent years" General Discussion 14
G Claim: China refused to hand "key data" to WHO delegation during the recent investigation in Wuhan Coronavirus COVID-19 29
P Claim: NASA tried to stop Spielberg's 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' Quotes Debunked 21
Mick West Mike Lindell's 2-Hour Election Fraud Claim Video "Absolute Proof": Hacking Claims Election 2020 7
P Claim: NASA cuts ISS livestream after "Millennium Falcon UFO" enters the frame UFOs and Aliens 16
P Claim: Admiral Byrd's "secret diary" proves hollow earth Flat Earth 9
P Claim: UFOs appeared at the Stadio Artemio Franchi in Florence UFOs and Aliens 15
P Claim: 1990 Calvine UFO UFOs and Aliens 24
P Claim: Men in black "Threatened a hotel manager" in 2009 UFOs and Aliens 14
P "Deleted Votes" Claim, 2020 Election, Erie County, New York Election 2020 16
T Claim: Thousands of fraudulent votes in Georgia cast by felons, dead, underage voters Election 2020 6
Rory Claim: Li Hongzhi (founder of Falun Gong) was made an honorary citizen of Houston, Atlanta and Georgia People Debunked 1
P Claim: "Dogman" spotted on a Facebook livestream Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 35
Mick West Debunked: Claim that the Electoral College Count On Jan 6 will Change the Election Election 2020 136
P Claim: Biden campaign short code '30330' is veiled message Election 2020 29
Mick West Debunked: Trump's Claim of "1,126,940 votes created out of thin air" in PA Election 2020 9
P Claim: UFO Black Knight Satellite spotted over Philippines UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 3
Mick West Explained: Trump's Claim of Suspicious Early Morning Michigan Bump [It's Detroit] Election 2020 1
Mick West Claim: R-Squared Coefficient of Determination as a Election Fraud Signal Election 2020 5
Akton Claim: Ballots in Wayne County were run through the tabulator and counted as many as 4-5 times Election 2020 16
Mick West Trump's Claim that "THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS." Election 2020 6
P Claim: Authorities supressed alleged UFO findings of a reporter of the 1965 Kecksburg crash UFOs and Aliens 7
M Claim: Hints of life on Venus: Scientists detect phosphine molecules in high cloud decks UFOs and Aliens 21
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
P Claim: Ronald Reagan warned the world of aliens/alien invasion UFOs and Aliens 4
P Claim: Man took photo of an alien spacecraft in 2016 UFOs and Aliens 21
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top