Claim: Martin Gugino Was Using a "Police Tracker."

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Source: https://twitter.com/i/status/1270335685514403840

In this report, One America News correspondent Kristian Rouz claims...


Does such technology exist? What is Martin Gugino holding?
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
Rival theory: Gugino is actually Batman, and he's holding a super-efficient Soros Freeze-Ray.®

Sources: Federalist Society bathroom on I Street, and OANN. So, which story has more evidence?
 
That video would convince my parents. He truly does some odd "wanding" with his cell phone. (he should have been wearing that helmet. We saw more people wearing helmets in the last major protests a few years back.not as many this time around that I see.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
image.png
It looks like he is holding the same kind of helmet that the officers are wearing; the helmet lacks the chin guard that most motorcycle helmets have.
He may have approached the officers to return that helmet to them.

My guess is that he was recording the officer's uniform IDs with his phone camera, or simply gesturing with it.

This is a slow-motion clip of the encounter and the fall:
Source: https://youtu.be/N703XiJC_i0


Article:
Nate Buckley, a co-owner of the Burning Books bookstore on Connecticut Street in Buffalo, said that Mr. Gugino was a regular customer who often came to hear the speakers in the shop — everyone from figures in the Catholic Worker Movement to Princeton University professors lecturing on race.

“He’s one of the most gentle people I know,” Mr. Buckley said. “He’s not aggressive at all. But people make up the most insane stories so they don’t have to deal with reality.”
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
He may have approached the officers to return that helmet to them.

My guess is that he was recording the officer's uniform IDs with his phone camera
now you're making up stories to make him look more innocent. just like Trump spread made-up stories to make him look more guilty.

and your comment has zero to do with the thread topic.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
and your comment has zero to do with the thread topic.
How about yours?

The facts are:
* Mr Gugino approached the police
* in an open, friendly manner
* carrying a black helmet in one hand
* and a smartphone in the other hand
* which he was moving in front of the officers he talked to.

These facts are explained by
a) the antifa conspiracy theory that reaches us via Trump/OANN/Conservative Treehouse
b) my guess

These are both guesses, Mr Gugino is still hospitalized, he's expected to recover, and his only comment on this issue so far has been "Black lives matter". But that's what metabunk often does with other phenomena: put a plausible, "normal" theory forth that contradicts the conspiracy theory and fits the same facts, without requiring additional unlikely assumptions.

Article:
There are plenty of apps claiming to be able to listen into police audio that have been popular during the recent wave of protests in the United States.
But these apps wouldn't allow you to interfere with a police device - or to "black out police equipment" as the president suggested.
Buffalo police say their dispatch channels are not encrypted, and there are even websites that broadcast police calls.
If you were attempting to jam police radio signals, you wouldn't need to be physically close to an officer.
However, most modern radio systems used by emergency services have defences against such jamming, says Professor Alan Woodward, a cyber security expert at Surrey University.
"In any event, even if you were attempting to scan police radios in order to jam them using a mobile phone, which is what the man appeared to be holding, this is not the equipment you would use. You would need much more sophisticated scanning equipment.
"In terms of interfering with police communications frequencies, mobile phones simply don't have components that work at those frequencies," he adds.

Article:
Kelly V. Zarcone, Gugino’s attorney, said in a statement that Gugino has "always been a peaceful protester."

"No one from law enforcement has even suggested anything otherwise, so we are at a loss to understand why the president of the United States would make such dark, dangerous, and untrue accusations against him," she said.

Article:
image.jpg
 

Arugula

Member

I think the video is purposefully worded to be vague and use words that suggest wrongdoing but don't actually mean anything. Using his phone to "Scan Police Communications" means that he was listening to a police scanner? There is nothing nefarious about that, it's a common thing hobbyists do. Scanners don't black out communications, they simply listen on the radio frequency. You can buy an analog scanner at electronics stores or download an app to be able to listen to Police, Fire, EMS, Air traffic, etc. (Personally I use the "Citizen" app, since it's essentially a police scanner & social media app that lets people share live videos of what's going on in the neighborhood.)

The report mentions "Skimming", which I've never heard in this context, but I know of skimming as a credit card theft technique where people alter credit card readers at ATMs to track people's bank cards and PIN numbers. I imagine they're trying to imply he's trying to "intercept" some kind of communication, presumably using his phone's inbuilt near field communication (NFC) for some kind of data exchange. But I don't think an officer has anything on them that would even interact with NFC except maybe a key fob to open doors of the police station. But I feel like if he was a master hacker enough to somehow steal that data, there would be a much safer way to do it than by walking up to a group in riot gear. (It's also not what this video or conspiracy is claiming either.)

I think think Occam's razor is that he had his phone in his hand and was making a nervous attempt to take a picture of the officer's nametag while two of them were walking toward him at once.


https://www.ibtimes.sg/martin-gugin...g-shoved-by-buffalo-police-suggests-new-46401

Regarding the false flag theory that he "wearing a blood pack" - there would obviously be evidence of this after the incident when paramedics rushed him to the hospital (where he still is, in serious condition). So were this theory to be true, the policeman who stopped the officer from helping him up, the fire personnel, the paramedics and healthcare workers would all have to be in cahoots on this conspiracy too, to cover up the evidence of a blood pack being used and a man not being injured, despite a very audible noise of him hitting the ground on the video.

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/l...-york/71-7a8c4179-8d88-4c99-88ae-86430bea468a
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
now you're making up stories to make him look more innocent.
Coming up with various plausible hypotheses bases on incomplete information, to try to figure out what is going on, is a big part of what we do here.
And saying what you think something looks like is kind of a valid data point, when everything else is going by what they think something looks like, of if someone is making a claim that it looks like something in particular.

What does it look MORE like? What evidence is there that he's doing something other than waving his phone around?



I'd say it looks consistent with recording video for the first second of the encounter, then it looks like he's simply using it to point, maybe at the baton.


Metabunk 2020-06-10 09-42-52.jpg
 

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deirdre

Senior Member.
Coming up with various plausible hypotheses bases on incomplete information, to try to figure out what is going on, is a big part of what we do here.
And saying what you think something looks like is kind of a valid data point, when everything else is going by what they think something looks like

it looks like he is returning a police helmet? or recording uniform IDs?

Trump was just repeating what he thought it looked like too. 'plausible' is subjective.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
it looks like he is returning a police helmet? or recording uniform IDs?

Trump was just repeating what he thought it looked like too. 'plausible' is subjective.
Trump thought Gugino looked like one of the well-known Antifa Septuagenarian Solo Gangstas?
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
If he were using a radio "scanner" why would he have to make swiping movements?

I think people are conditioned to expect such movements because of metal detectors and (credit) card readers.

A metal detector doesn't require a swiping motion either. That's just a motion hunting for the metallic object.

The only thing that requires a swipe, as far as I know, is an old-fashioned card reader that reads a magnetic strip on the card. And that's because it needs to move across the strip, something like a tape recorder, to read digital information in a linear way - from start to finish.

So the whole swiping motion thing is meaningless.

It's the kind of thing that would work, dramatically, in a movie, because of what people unconsciously expect. And it works, dramatically, here in this conspiracy theory. But that's all it is - drama.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I think people are conditioned to expect such movements because of metal detectors and (credit) card readers.
very hypothetically his movements could mimic more bar codes shopping. at the grocery store they swipe the items over the scan light. and at clothing stores where they have a scan gun, they often go back and forth like that because the gun didn't grab the bar code the first time i assume because maybe the gun was at the wrong angle.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Coming up with various plausible hypotheses bases on incomplete information, to try to figure out what is going on, is a big part of what we do here.
And saying what you think something looks like is kind of a valid data point, when everything else is going by what they think something looks like, of if someone is making a claim that it looks like something in particular.

What does it look MORE like? What evidence is there that he's doing something other than waving his phone around?



I'd say it looks consistent with recording video for the first second of the encounter, then it looks like he's simply using it to point, maybe at the baton.


Metabunk 2020-06-10 09-42-52.jpg
My speculative story...

He's an irritating, self-righteous guy. We have video of him irritating other protesters. In this clip he's being irritating and self-righteous. Probably saying something like, "Hey, you don't need those batons" or "City regulation so and so says I have the right to... and here you are with those clubs and guns..." And he's gesticulating in a self-righteous and irritating way with his irritating phone flapping around for no other reason than it was already in his irritating hand.
The cops are irritated and saying something like,"Shut the **** up." or "We said move it."
They're giving him an irritated shove like you'd give some slob in high school. But they're not supposed to do that.

In a comedy movie it might even be funny, because he's irritating. Look at the cop on our right. He turns his head in exasperation, like Moe Howard just before he hauls off and socks Curly. "What!?! Why you numbskull!"
 
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How about yours?

The facts are:
* Mr Gugino approached the police
* in an open, friendly manner
* carrying a black helmet in one hand
* and a smartphone in the other hand
* which he was moving in front of the officers he talked to.

These facts are explained by
a) the antifa conspiracy theory that reaches us via Trump/OANN/Conservative Treehouse
b) my guess

These are both guesses, Mr Gugino is still hospitalized, he's expected to recover, and his only comment on this issue so far has been "Black lives matter". But that's what metabunk often does with other phenomena: put a plausible, "normal" theory forth that contradicts the conspiracy theory and fits the same facts, without requiring additional unlikely assumptions.

Article:
There are plenty of apps claiming to be able to listen into police audio that have been popular during the recent wave of protests in the United States.
But these apps wouldn't allow you to interfere with a police device - or to "black out police equipment" as the president suggested.
Buffalo police say their dispatch channels are not encrypted, and there are even websites that broadcast police calls.
If you were attempting to jam police radio signals, you wouldn't need to be physically close to an officer.
However, most modern radio systems used by emergency services have defences against such jamming, says Professor Alan Woodward, a cyber security expert at Surrey University.
"In any event, even if you were attempting to scan police radios in order to jam them using a mobile phone, which is what the man appeared to be holding, this is not the equipment you would use. You would need much more sophisticated scanning equipment.
"In terms of interfering with police communications frequencies, mobile phones simply don't have components that work at those frequencies," he adds.

Article:
Kelly V. Zarcone, Gugino’s attorney, said in a statement that Gugino has "always been a peaceful protester."

"No one from law enforcement has even suggested anything otherwise, so we are at a loss to understand why the president of the United States would make such dark, dangerous, and untrue accusations against him," she said.

Article:
image.jpg
It truly does look like a riot helmet and not a moto
 
My speculative story...

He's an irritating, self-righteous guy. We have video of him irritating other protesters. In this clip he's being irritating and self-righteous. Probably saying something like, "Hey, you don't need those batons" or "City regulation so and so says I have the right to... and here you are with those clubs and guns..." And he's gesticulating in a self-righteous and irritating way with his irritating phone flapping around for no other reason than it was already in his irritating hand.
The cops are irritated and saying something like,"Shut the **** up." or "We said move it."
They're giving him an irritated shove like you'd give some slob in high school. But they're not supposed to do that.

In a comedy movie it might even be funny, because he's irritating. Look at the cop on our right. He turns his head in exasperation, like Moe Howard just before he hauls off and socks Curly. "What!?! Why you numbskull!"
he got what he wanted it seems from the video you shared. he walks up "wands" and gets shoved. Lawsuit win.
 
Coming up with various plausible hypotheses bases on incomplete information, to try to figure out what is going on, is a big part of what we do here.
And saying what you think something looks like is kind of a valid data point, when everything else is going by what they think something looks like, of if someone is making a claim that it looks like something in particular.

What does it look MORE like? What evidence is there that he's doing something other than waving his phone around?



I'd say it looks consistent with recording video for the first second of the encounter, then it looks like he's simply using it to point, maybe at the baton.


Metabunk 2020-06-10 09-42-52.jpg
Your very may be right, but why walk up to the oncoming line with a recording phone if your just giving a helmet back? esp. when you know thousands of people are already recording? You're looking for trouble in my mind, and jabbing a black object at an officer? never smart
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Right ZW. Irritating self-righteous guy gets in the space of angry numbskull robots primed for violence, predictable outcome follows is what it looks like to me too.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
In this report, One America News correspondent Kristian Rouz claims...

Kristian Brunovich Rouz, that's the guy from Russia's propaganda outlet Sputnik.
Article:
Trump’s New Favorite Channel Employs Kremlin-Paid Journalist

Kristian Brunovich Rouz, originally from the Siberian city of Novosibirsk, has been living in San Diego, where OAN is based, since August 2017, reporting on U.S. politics for the 24-hour news channel. For all of that time, he’s been simultaneously writing for Sputnik, a Kremlin-owned news wire that played a role in Russia’s 2016 election-interference operation, according to an assessment by the U.S. intelligence community.
Rouz’s on-air reports for OAN include a wholly fabricated 2017 segment claiming Hillary Clinton is secretly bankrolling antifa through her political action committee. Clinton, Rouz claimed falsely, gave antifa protesters $800,000 that “went toward things like bricks, hammers, bats, and chains.”
...
Kremlin propaganda sometimes sneaks into Rouz’s segments on unrelated matters, dropped in as offhand background information. A segment on the Syrian rescue workers known as the White Helmets references “allegations of the White Helmets’ involvement in military activities, executions, and numerous war atrocities,” but doesn’t disclose that those “allegations” were hoaxes that originated with Vladimir Putin and his proxies.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
The "yellow line" in Aragula's post #9 looks like he's wearing a second mask underneath the surgical mask, possibly a workman's mask with an outflow valve. I'm pretty sure that if fakery had been involved in the fall, the EMTs would have noticed, and it'd be reported by now.

I've seen a speculation that Gugino attempted some bluetooth scanning, but for that I don't think he'd have needed to get that close or to swipe, either, and I haven't heard that it's even possible or useful.

One of his tweets supports the idea that he was trying to talk to the officers about the batons they were carrying:
image.jpeg
 

DavidB66

Active Member
Is there any news on the nature of his injury? When I saw a pool of blood under his head I assumed that it was coming from a scalp wound on the back of his head. However, the photo in #10 in this thread seems to show blood coming out of his ear. I'm no doctor, but blood coming out of someone's ear (assuming it is not faked) surely implies a serious head injury, such as a skull fracture.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
ation that Gugino attempted some bluetooth scanning, but for that I don't think he'd have needed to get that close or to swipe, either, and I haven't heard that it's even possible or useful
Security researcher Josh Mitchell had a talk at the 2018 DefCon security conference concerning the hackability of body cams:
Article:
In addition to connecting to Wi-Fi networks, higher-end body cameras like the Vievu LE-5 Lite and the Patrol Eyes SC-DV10 also have the ability to generate a Wi-Fi access point of their own. That allows other devices to connect to the camera's private network, but Mitchell found that these features had inadequate or missing authentication in the models he tested, so anyone could connect to a camera from a regular consumer device and access its data.

Presumably, these exploits are no longer possible today, but unpatched hardware might still be around, or new vulnerabilities might have been discovered; or these devices may now be secure against unauthorized access.

Either way, getting up close or "swiping" a phone should not be necessary for these kinds of attacks to work. And drawing attention to yourself while you're doing it doesn't seem wise, either.

I don't think you'd need to be militant or conspire with anyone to see the allure of being potentially able to download unedited footage off these body cams. It's not a terrorist act.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Is there any news on the nature of his injury? When I saw a pool of blood under his head I assumed that it was coming from a scalp wound on the back of his head. However, the photo in #10 in this thread seems to show blood coming out of his ear. I'm no doctor, but blood coming out of someone's ear (assuming it is not faked) surely implies a serious head injury, such as a skull fracture.
Article:
Gugino's friend, Mark Colville of New Haven, Conn., said he talked Tuesday morning to Gugino, who remains hospitalized at Erie County Medical Center.

"He's been removed from the ICU [intensive care unit]," said Colville, an activist himself. "He thinks he's going to be in the hospital at least another week. He's in a lot of pain and having trouble concentrating. He said they're expecting him to make a full recovery in about five weeks."

Colville said Gugino didn't tell him what his diagnosis was.
 

Bruno D.

Senior Member.
My speculative story...

He's an irritating, self-righteous guy. We have video of him irritating other protesters. In this clip he's being irritating and self-righteous. Probably saying something like, "Hey, you don't need those batons" or "City regulation so and so says I have the right to... and here you are with those clubs and guns..." And he's gesticulating in a self-righteous and irritating way with his irritating phone flapping around for no other reason than it was already in his irritating hand.
The cops are irritated and saying something like,"Shut the **** up." or "We said move it."
They're giving him an irritated shove like you'd give some slob in high school. But they're not supposed to do that.

In a comedy movie it might even be funny, because he's irritating. Look at the cop on our right. He turns his head in exasperation, like Moe Howard just before he hauls off and socks Curly. "What!?! Why you numbskull!"

I agree with @Z.W. Wolf , people REALLY need to stop with crazy speculative theories. We see it in protests every single day. People being irritating or trying to get under other people's skin, because they are exactly who they are protesting against, and they are going to scream, say harmful things, etc.

How many times Gurgino probably did that during the day? How many did others do that too? How many times did the policemen also shoved others out of the way? Probably multiple, but none is newsworthy because no one was hurt. Gurgino happened to be the exception because he was hurt and it was filmed.

The fact that it happens all the time is what is unacceptable. It's not a surprise to the police that this is the behavior they are going to face, so it's unacceptable that they don't have a clear strategy on what to do in those cases. Shoving self-righteous irritating people? that's a nope. Do you thing you really need to do that? Control your force based on the person you will shove and the surroundings. And so on and so forth.

So, my speculative story is ...
Multiple irritating self-righteous people are shoved all the time in all protests, and Gurgino's shoving ended badly and was filmed. And not a single shoving should be happening because policemen should be trained in de-escalating, and that's not what we see. No secret devices, no mischievous underlying motives, only a serious of unfortunate events that are avoidable and an outcome that is unacceptable.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Not that anyone cares but i decided to look at the original source -sourced by OAN in the OP- of the claim to see if any actual details were given. (vs novice vocabulary used by Trump)

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...eous-police-team-stand-together-and-walk-out/
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
The thing is, there aren't that many details in that quote.
You might have heard the term “skimming”; it’s essentially the same.
This links to another OAN video, at this time they seem to be referencing each other? with a strange time code, but at 3:03 they actually show a picture of a device they allege Gugino to be using:
capture communications 3 03.jpg
It's obvious that this device has an external antenna connected via an interface device; this is not in evidence in the Gugino video, his phone drops out of his hand when he's on the ground, and it's not connected to anything. And in any case, having an antenna means you don't need to do a "skimming" motion: "waving is phone over the officer's chests, which is exactly what you'd do if you were using a capture scanner" -- no, it isn't. If antifa tactics required getting that close to police officers in riot gear, they'd be deeply flawed. And that's not the only thing wrong in that video.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
I must be missing something, the claim makes no sense - he's trying to "locate police officers" by using a device when...standing in front of them?? I mean he's old but surely his eyes can't be that bad...

As for jamming, it would need a device a fair bit bulkier than that, and need to remain in the vicinity of the police radios he's trying to jam. But what would targeting a handful of police at that location achieve anyway?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
What incentive, in that place and time, would he have to "black out" police communication? To what end?

Does any known technology exist--phone-sized, or larger--that can actually do that?

Or is it ultra-sophisticated tech that only 75 year-old irritating white men can employ...for some reason...?


Well, at least it's distracting folks from Milley's admission re. the church photo-op, and 20 other problems...
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Could you please link to it (not an OANN assertion) ? Thanks.

The manufacturers tend not to put the procedures out there for obvious reasons.

You can jam radio signals in a limited capacity with small-ish devices (maybe bit bigger than phone...hand held radio size?). But that will give a range of tens of metres, and are fairly underpowered for what the claim is, as police radios and similar can throw out a fair bit of energy. They also need to stay in close range of the transmitter that's being jammed and be powered on. He's certainly not taking down a police comms network with that phone.

There's a few types of man-portable ECM platforms, usually limited to military/law enforcement. They jam RF / cell phone etc., again dependant on proximity, placement and the network. They're about the size of a backpack, have multiple antennae sticking out of them, and require a fair bit of power to jam signals by throwing out noise.

Quick Google will give you examples of size:
brouilleur-pour-opérations-spéciales-2-750-750-2.jpg

ECM_Scorpion2_01.jpg

There's a few diff units, https://www.scopex.fr/en/type/electronic-countermeasure-ecm-systems/ is the top one. Bottom is a "Scorpion" unit.

Dedicated cell phone jammers are similar
MODEL-CCJ800PLa.jpg
https://phantom-technologies.com/model-ccj800pl/

But he doesn't seem to be towing a Pelican case around with him.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Maybe HE was the technology - by using his powers of agitation he's now made an entire unit quit.
While that's funny, it was actually the police union, by leaving officers fiscally responsible for the consequences of their own conduct.

Have their been any reports by police of their communications getting blacked out at all? It would the "outside agitator" narrative, and many staff would have experienced it, so it's not likely to stay secret.

If Gugino had unusual technology, like a fake blood pack, or extra antennas, the police who did tend to him, or the EMTs, would have seen that, and we'd know. This is something proper journalists can find out.
But we don't have evidence of any of that.

We have evidence that Gugino walked up to the police in a non-threatening manner, with what looks like relaxed body posture, and his helmet off, and gesticulates with his phone.

We have evidence that Gugino was active in the Catholic Worker Movement:
Article:
The movement campaigns for nonviolence and is active in opposing both war and the unequal global distribution of wealth.

There is evidence that Gugino has attended and supported many protests, but there is no evidence that he or his friends have ever not been peaceful.

Inasfar as we require concrete evidence to debunk, we just don't have anything beyond what looks like a man talking to the police while waving his smartphone about, which we can explain by him being an activist who (proven via his tweet) thought police should not bring batons to a peaceful protest.
- there is no evidence of Buffalo police being attacked electronically
- there is no evidence of Gugino bringing electronic devices besides a phone
- there is no evidence of Gugino engaging in or supporting violent protest
- there is no evidence associating Gugino with violent antifascists

Of course, we can't rule out that Gugino is secretly a militant using powerful miniature technology sponsored by Moscow, but that'd be a complete fabrication.
What we can do is look at the evidence, and the evidence to support that Gugino was engaged in electronic warfare is conspicuously absent. Neither the police nor the press nor the president of the USA (which presumably encompasses the FBI and intelligence services) have been publishing such evidence.


What we do have evidence of is of Gugino talking to police on the street, then being shoved backwards unexpectedly. It looks like the police could have ignored him and walked around him, or maybe they could have arrested him for breaking curfew, but they did neither, instead turning to violence. That is the obvious evidence for criminal activity here, but OAN can produce a 5-minute segment on Gugino and say no more than "he was knocked to the ground when he refused to move". They ignore the obvious evidence, and fabricate a narrative from speculation. That's CT behaviour.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
We have evidence that Gugino walked up to the police in a non-threatening manner
You have your opinion that he walked up in a non-threatening manner. His actions don't look completely non-threatening to me. You've already shown his intentions were likely to confront police. (and we've got young people saying he wants to 'get punched in the face')

the president of the USA (which presumably encompasses the FBI and intelligence services) have been publishing such evidence.
it happened in Buffalo, New York.

there is no evidence of Gugino engaging in or supporting violent protest
if i capture an encryption code and/or radio frequency*, for future use, on my phone, that is considered violent? <that is a question, not a denial. i myself wouldn't consider such a thing 'violent protest', but maybe others would consider that violent protesting.

* @occams rusty scissor if police communications are private/encrypted, if I get that encryption data can I use it later? not that I think there is sufficient evidence to suggest he is anything other than just really old and making odd looking movements because of his oldness. but I can bump my phone against yours and get your contact info... can I bump my phone against your radio and get your encryption info?
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
You have your opinion that he walked up in a non-threatening manner. His actions don't look completely non-threatening to me.
I'm talking about the threat of violence, like a black-clad protester running up to a police line with a brick in their hand would be. This situation does not look as if the police had to fear more from Martin Gugino than being talked to, judging by his body language and demeanor, and the fact that he carried his helmet loosely in his hand.

I've been including Trump in my list of people who could have procured evidence because he suggested Gugino is a terrorist (he labeled him as antifa, and announced his intention to classify Antifa as a terrorist organization), and so he could have asked the FBI to investigate, or any other sources of intelligence.

Article:
Violence
extremely forceful actions that are intended to hurt people or are likely to cause damage

Accessing electronic information is not forceful and does not cause damage.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
have procured evidence because he suggested Gugino is a terrorist (he labeled him as antifa, and announced his intention to classify Antifa as a terrorist organization)
unfortunately it was being reported early on that the Mayor called him an instagitator and mentioned him instigating riot stuff. The papers of course got it wrong and the Mayor was talking about someone else. but... once fake news is out there, you cant always expect people to have seen the retraction.
https://www.newsweek.com/2-buffalo-...sault-protester-both-plead-not-guilty-1509182


But I don't think it matters if he was an Antifa type or an Antifa member or a lone wolf or just an old guy who likes to speak out. I don't think it matters to how he was injured or to whether or not he was trying to do something with his phone.

I'm talking about the threat of violence, like a black-clad protester running up to a police line with a brick in their hand would be. This situation does not look as if the police had to fear more from Martin Gugino than being talked to, judging by his body language and demeanor, and the fact that he carried his helmet loosely in his hand.
the topic of the thread is whether he was scanning the police with his phone. I guess I just don't understand what 'how he approached them' would have to do with the topic. Technically if your goal was to scan the police devices then you wouldn't run up to them with a brick, no?
 

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occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
* @occams rusty scissor if police communications are private/encrypted, if I get that encryption data can I use it later?
I guess? Really not sure, I don't know that side of the radios. If they're using the common Motorola radios, then that encryption is fairly solid from what I'm told, but I don't know much more about it.
Apparently Buffalo don't have their net encrypted anyway, which seems really bizarre to me, but maybe they got their reasons.


I can bump my phone against yours and get your contact info... can I bump my phone against your radio and get your encryption info?

The newer radios incorporate Bluetooth and Wi-Fi capabilities, but I don't think that would be possible. The encryption on the radios we use needs to be installed by setting each radio up to a laptop individually, so it can't be changed on the fly. It also means that our channel is dead to other members outside our unit even though they're on the same net.
I guess if you knew what sort of encryption was being used you could try ...something? I'm just guessing though, I have no idea about that stuff or how you'd implement it.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
I guess? Really not sure, I don't know that side of the radios. If they're using the common Motorola radios, then that encryption is fairly solid from what I'm told, but I don't know much more about it.
Apparently Buffalo don't have their net encrypted anyway, which seems really bizarre to me, but maybe they got their reasons.
Michigan still has a law that requires the public to be able to pick up dispatch transmissions for public safety, and most police use a separate channel on the same system for all communication rather than have a second set of equipment.

I would think emergency broadcast system largely renders the point of those laws moot but I doubt Michigan is the only state with a similar rule lingering on the books.

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/

Many are even available online, every state and most counties in the states I randomly clicked has at least one fire or police channel available to listen online.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Michigan still has a law that requires the public to be able to pick up dispatch transmissions for public safety, and most police use a separate channel on the same system for all communication rather than have a second set of equipment.

Righto, thanks, I thought may be it was a legislated public interest thing. I assumed they must have had at least some protected channels but wasn't sure. I have seen some of those channels broadcast online.
 
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