Claim: ISIS: Created and Supported by the CIA?

Chuck

Active Member
I have been bombarded with links purporting that ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State is a CIA/Mossad concoction, created to demonize Islam, spread terror and give the US further justification to invade other Islamic countries. As is typical of this argument, accompanying one post was the following:

I realize the above statements are far too much to unpack in one thread, since the statement is too broad.

To debunk:
1. Was ISIS a creation of the CIA/Mossad?
2. Is ISIS/ISIL being aided and abetted by the U.S. Government/CIA

U.S. AIRDROPS WEAPONS TO ISIS AS IRAQI ARMY MAKES GAINS (INFOWARS)

ISIL completely fabricated enemy by US: Former CIA contractor (PRESS TV)

Suspicions Run Deep in Iraq That C.I.A. and the Islamic State Are United (NY TIMES)
Was ISIS Created By The CIA? Many Arabs Think So (Inquisitr)


Following is Alex Jones arguing - ISIS: Creation of the CIA


(if this issue is covered somewhere else, I apologize. I could not find it.)
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Edit: Made a paragraph of nonsense because the article had typo'd ISIS as ISS at one point and I thought it was intentional.

The ISIS/CIA thing is a common conspiracy theory in that part of the world. Many people also think the Red Cross, Catholic Church, and Coptic Christians are CIA constructs. In part it springs from the fact that the CIA did some pants-on-head stupid things during the search for Bin Laden like actually dress up like Red Cross and give out (allegedly fake) vaccines. Ultimately it's no different than any of our more familiar western-born conspiracy theories.
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
Wait, did I get so caught up with holiday shopping that I somehow missed the big declaration?
("...openly and officially declared war against all patriotic Americans...")

Perhaps it was on MSNBC...explaining how most of us heard nothing of such a massive "official" & "open" announcement :eek:
 
Seems like a fairly broad claim which would be pretty difficult to debunk without any specific evidence, but the claim that "ISIS is a creation of the CIA" is made (in the Press TV article at least) by supposed 'former CIA contractor' Stephen Kelley.

The only link I could find to him and the CIA is that his company 'S.K Industries' made lasers that were possibly used by the CIA; seems like the lasers were used on guns. My question would be, why would a contractor supplying lasers to the CIA be given any exposure to information so sensitive?

It also seems Stephen Kelley really is convinced of almost every conspiracy going and even has a book which:
He also claims to have been asked to invent weapons for use against aliens by the Templar's and Bilderburgs...

So, seems like the claim being made is from an, at best, very dubious source.

(this is my first post. Love the forum and hope this info is of some use).
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
The only link I could find to him and the CIA is that his company 'S.K Industries' made lasers that were possibly used by the CIA; seems like the lasers were used on guns. My question would be, why would a contractor supplying lasers to the CIA be given any exposure to information so sensitive?
They wouldn't. They'd have some security clearance, but knowing a device exists is one thing, and knowing specific operations its been used in is something else entirely.

I'm not going to say this SKI guy is lying, but using this position as a contractor to call oneself an insider is a common tactic of liars. Most people (and most reporters) don't realize just how many people contract with various agencies, or how many people work for them and have no access to sensitive information, so having even the most passing connection to the agency is seen as the same as having full access to all its darkest secrets.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Admittedly, I havent watched the video but I do know that some of this "reasoning", at least initially as ISIS entered Iraq, was because the large quantities of US weapons that ISIS captured from the Iraqi army. Photos of ISIS with US weapons was where I saw this theory first mentioned.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
The whole middle East has been a war zone for years, after all, NATO and the Soviet Union fought the cold war by proxy there from the 50's onwards. Both the US and the soviets flooded the area with every kind of weapon you can think of from combat knives to fighter jets and battle tanks for years, each supplying their own pet governments and rebel groups. These weapons soon found their way onto the terrorist markets and into the hands of every group from the South American 'shining path' guerrillas to the IRA, ETA and beyond. So much so that by the 1970's the combo of semtex explosives, the trusty AK-47 and a Smith and Weston side arm was the kit of choice for the discerning terrorist / freedom fighter no matter where they were in the world, and most of that gear came from the middle east.

Now in the past 20 years or so there's been the Iran / Iraq war with the US supplying the Iraqis. then there's been the two gulf wars with lots of US weapons in use, and as mentioned above the US equipping of the Iraqi forces since the end of GW2. Then there's the civil war in Syria and the still on going ad oft over looked Kurdish conflict with Turkey, not to mention areas like the Yemen which have large numbers of tribal areas and the internal disputes that go with them. All of which means guns of all types from every nation that makes them are going to be available in the region. You have also got to bear in mind that the region is going to be a magnet for every arms dealer on the planet, and rest assured that if military style assault weapons are available over the counter in American high street stores, through third and fourth party dealers the same weapons are gonna show up in the Middle east.

So the fact that US weapons and equipment show up in ISIS videos just shows US weapons are available to them, not proof that the CIA is giving them the weapons directly.
 
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Whitebeard

Senior Member.
This is an interesting document...

http://conflictarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Dispatch_IS_Iraq_Syria_Weapons.pdf
http://conflictarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Dispatch_IS_Iraq_Syria_Weapons.pdf
It gives an over view of weapons captured from ISIS in Syria and attempts to identify the origins of these weapons. The results make an interesting read. weapons from US, modern Russia (and Soviet Union era), Belgium, Croatia, Saudi Arabia, and Austria amoungst others.

The last point here is of most relevance I think, as to put things into lay-mans term, it is saying ISIS has got it's arse in gear on a logistical level, making sure it has the weapons it need, where and when it needs them.

(and back ground info on the reports authors...)
http://www.conflictarm.com/
there's lots more on the site, including the 'itrace' project.
http://www.conflictarm.com/itrace/
 
As well as weapons, ISIS also captured a number of military vehicles, which were initially supplied to the Iraq Security forces by the US, during the capture of Mosul Airport in June 2014:
 
Some sources have lately been claiming that IS has been found using Israeli/Western arms, any information to debunk this?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/02/24/iraqi-army-downs-2-uk-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil/
http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/isis-elements-weapons-made-in-israel-says-birwari/

It appears Israel has in fact previously been in bed with certain muslim fundamentalist groups, as is explained in the following article

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/israel-used-false-flag-operation-recruit-anti-iran-223815985.html
http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/
 
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Hevach

Senior Member.
If it's true, there's not much reason to suspect Israel or the US is actually involved, anymore than there is to suspect Russia or China is involved because they use Russian weapons and their Chinese knockoffs. US and Israeli weapons are also available on legitimate and illegitimate markets just like Russian ones - Russian weapons may be the go-to for the budget minded upstart terrorist or dictator, but Israeli and western guns are available and widely used enough to ensure that some have captured the same iconic recognition in popular culture as "criminal" guns that the AK-47 has - the Uzi, for example.

The US has also armed many coalition members in the region, as well as Iraqi forces. ISIS has recruited fighters away from some of those forces, and has captured territory and weapons in northern Iraq.
 
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BombDr

Senior Member.
Some sources have lately been claiming that IS has been found using Israeli/Western arms, any information to debunk this?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/02/24/iraqi-army-downs-2-uk-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil/
http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/isis-elements-weapons-made-in-israel-says-birwari/

It appears Israel has in fact previously been in bed with certain muslim fundamentalist groups, as is explained in the following article

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/israel-used-false-flag-operation-recruit-anti-iran-223815985.html
http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/

I think I would be aware of the Veterans Today claim of two UK aircraft being shot down, and I have heard nothing of the sort.

In fact, the last fixed wing aircraft to have gone down in either Iraq or Syria was the Jordanian F16 and the Syrian MiG 21 shot down by the IDF last September.
 
While my post related specifically to the articles claiming that western powers had actually been caught supplying arms to IS, I agree that the sources which provide such news are of questionable quality, at least.
 

Santa'sSickRibs

Senior Member
They all predate living memory, though. To a single lifetime it can be hard to see the difference between 100 years and 1000.
The CIA was founded in 1947, its precursor in 1942, and Mossad in 1949.

As an aside, believing that a 100 year-old organization founded a prominent 1000 year-old one (even older, in the case of the Copts) requires the believer to argue that much of received history is fabrication and myth (or in a blue police box.) Exactly how old the orgs and whether I 'see the difference' are is irrelevant - though I think of 500 years as being no less distant than 600 years, I still cannot believe a 500 year-old cause had a 600 year-old effect.

In any case, all I've managed to get out of Google were CIA/Mossad/Zionist CTs involving more recent events like the formation of IS (with the exception of the Coca-Cola/Pepsi CT) and did not find anything about Copts or the Catholic Church being CIA constructs as was suggested above. Some links would be helpful.
 
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I first started lurking Metabunk when the "fake snow" thing hit. I didn't believe for a second that anything was amiss. it was just nice to see those claims get debunked.

Then I came across this claim:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...di-is-a-mossad-agent-named-simon-elliot.4263/

So I joined up specifically to make that thread. Just as I had expected, it was a claim with no basis in reality (the idea that Baghdadi is a Mossad agent originally came from Iran with the help of "Snowden Leaks"). And I had a feeling that the general idea of ISIS being a CIA/Israeli/Western-Zionist backed group would come up again, which leads me to here.

Some sources have lately been claiming that IS has been found using Israeli/Western arms, any information to debunk this?

I'll just address this point:
You can't "debunk" the idea that certain people are using certain weapons. If there are pictures and videos of it (there are) then it's a fact. You also can't draw a connection and say "Since they ARE using weapons from XYZ then they MUST be in cahoots with them".

Correlation (ISIS is using western weapons)=/=Causality (Western powers are supplying ISIS with arms)

If it did then the former USSR would be the first suspect for supplying Jihadists, what with all those Kalashnikovs and DsHK's they seem to get their hands on.
 
Yeah that's basically the way I looked at it until some very odd claims appeared that the West had actually been caught supplying the Jihadists, such as the news article alleging two British C-130s were shot down above Iraq. It's largely all nonsense indeed, but what do you guys think of the support Israel has lately been giving to the Al Nusra front across the Golan heights between Israel and Syria? Is it just an ordinary case of 'the enemy (Al Nusra) of my enemy (Assad, Hezbollah) is my friend'? Vice did a report on this.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
but what do you guys think of the support Israel has lately been giving to the Al Nusra front across the Golan heights between Israel and Syria? Vice did a report on this.

First of all, are you implying that Israel is helping terrorists?

Can you provide a link to where Vice claims Israel is giving support Al Nusra in the Golan Heights?
 
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Can you provide a link to where Vice claims Israel is helping Al Nusra in the Golan Heights?

I think he means this: https://news.vice.com/article/new-e...-the-golan-heights?utm_source=vicenewsyoutube
Just an excerpt that one may find relevant (emphasis mine)
"In November, VICE News sent a video team to the Golan Heights where they witnessed and recorded occurrences similar to those outlined by the UN. The team saw IDF soldiers treating wounded Syrian fighters along the border. Though VICE News could not confirm the affiliation of the fighters, some of the rebels being treated by Israel had long hair, a characteristic that is associated with members of the al Nusra Front.
Once the patients were stabilized, Israeli forces moved them to hospitals outside of the Golan Heights and inside Israel proper. At one hospital, VICE News spoke with a patient who identified himself as a member of the Free Syrian Army. He said that after recovering he hoped to return to fight in Syria. The Free Syrian Army is reportedly cooperating with al Nusra in parts of the Golan Heights."
I didn't read the article top to bottom (got a friend with me) but even skimming I can see that the article does not claim what he says it does.
Oh, and the title of the article is New Evidence Suggests Israel Is Helping Syrian Rebels in the Golan Heights

Not New Evidence Suggests Israel Is Helping Al-Nusra Front in the Golan Heights
 
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...sition-daraa-israel-communication-nusra.html#
http://www.timesofisrael.com/unlike...ia-border-as-assad-watches-his-country-split/

It is not in the least indicative of some massive global Jewish conspiracy, but it will fuel such conspiracy theories nonetheless

Was the point of posting those sources to show how these anti-Israel CT's are being fueled? Because the first one does so admirably. It even quotes anonymous "activists" and a Syrian General!

Other than that it's a Syrian General who, surprise surprise, sees Israeli involvement behind the failures of his army.
Honestly, it will take more than that to convince me, personally, that Israel somehow helps jihadist militants ON PURPOSE.

The second link has me perplexed. While it actually DOES claim that Al-Nusra are creating a stronghold in the Golan Heights, it makes 0 accusations about Israel helping Al-Nusra.


You seemed convinced earlier that Israel was supplying Al-Nusra through the Golan Heights. Has your position changed?
 
Ah well that makes sense.

So was the Vice report I linked to for Trigger Hippie the one you were referring to? I don't want to misrepresent your evidence or claims.
It's largely all nonsense indeed, but what do you guys think of the support Israel has lately been giving to the Al Nusra front across the Golan heights between Israel and Syria? Is it just an ordinary case of 'the enemy (Al Nusra) of my enemy (Assad, Hezbollah) is my friend'? Vice did a report on this.
 
Yeah I believe I was referring to the same report but it had been a while since I had seen their coverage so I have missed out on the specifics of the case.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
the support Israel has lately been giving to the Al Nusra front across the Golan heights between Israel and Syria?... Vice did a report on this.

Yeah I believe I was referring to the same report but it had been a while since I had seen their coverage so I have missed out on the specifics of the case.

This is a good example of how conspiracy theories get perpetuated; Make the vague and unsubstantiated claim that "Israel is supporting Al Nusra", when the reality is that Israel is treating unidentified wounded combatants.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
when the reality is that Israel is treating unidentified wounded combatants.

And in doing so is fulfilling its obligations under article 1 of the 1929 Geneva Convention.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
And in doing so is fulfilling its obligations under article 1 of the 1929 Geneva Convention.
I don't think Geneva would apply here, since the fighters are not attached to the armed forces or any entity of an official defence force/army.

If the fighters are indeed JN then that would seem more than a little strange, since JN is connected to al Qaeda. Although who knows which groups remain allies with each other, it seems to change weekly.
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
excuse me for the next two platitudes: "in war and love everything is permitted"; and "the first victim of war is the truth". The middle east is an almost inextricable tangle of interests. As Whitebeard explained above it was a theater of the cold war. It is still the world's main supplier of oil. Various ethnic groups are competing across nation borders that were imposed by the former colonial powers. Conflicting religious movements fight within and between nations.
All this means that claims like the above have in general two sides: on the one hand, several parties have an interest in spreading lies and disinfomation. Claims like the above mostly originate from Iranian or Russian press agencies, and why should you even want to believe those?
On the other hand: is it really so unlikely that western powers (including Israel) initially funded rebels (without looking too sharp at the ideological basis) against a Russian and Iranian ally (Syria)? It used to be a quite normal way of "fighting" in the cold war, just remember what happened in Afghanistan with the Mudjahideen. Now that things have possibly gone out of hand it seems very unlikely (silly actually) to assume that ISIS would still be supported and combatted at the same time
 
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On the other hand: is it really so unlikely that western powers (including Israel) initially funded rebels (without looking too sharp at the ideological basis) against a Russian and Iranian ally (Syria)? It used to be a quite normal way of "fighting" in the cold war, just remember what happened in Afghanistan with the Mudjahideen. Now that things have possibly gone out of hand it seems very unlikely (silly actually) to assume that ISIS would still be supported and combatted at the same time

I personally don't think that's an unlikely scenario but it's just conjecture. You need to provide EVIDENCE supporting your claim that Western powers supplied the rebels at first then cut off the relationship. Preferably involving the CIA considering that's what this thread is supposed to be about.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
With all the shifting allegiances in Syria it's almost impossible to track and control the flow of western money and weapons.

This just in from the NY Times. In 2010, Afghanistan used CIA money to pay the ransom on a kidnapped official. Unbeknownst to the CIA, their money ended up in Al Qaeda’s hands.

More fuel for the conspiracy theorists... "the CIA is funding Al Qaeda!!!"
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
I personally don't think that's an unlikely scenario but it's just conjecture. You need to provide EVIDENCE supporting your claim that Western powers supplied the rebels at first then cut off the relationship. Preferably involving the CIA considering that's what this thread is supposed to be about.
I agree but I'm not claiming anything. (Although I wouldn't be surprised). I thought this thread was about the CIA and the Mossad actually creating ISIS in order to demonize Islam. And I tried to make plausible that that intention is Iranian or Russian fiction, even IF there could be shown any connection between CIA/Mossad and (the precursor of) ISIS in the past.
 

qed

Senior Member
The US created ISIS only in the sense that *you* created the disaster on the Walmart floor, when, after repeated warnings from your family as to the effect and consequences, you insisted on reaching into the stacked display and removing the centre tin. And then repeating the stunt in Libya.:(



[... everyone knows Saudi Arabia created ISIS...]
 
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I agree but I'm not claiming anything. (Although I wouldn't be surprised). I thought this thread was about the CIA and the Mossad actually creating ISIS in order to demonize Islam. And I tried to make plausible that that intention is Iranian or Russian fiction, even IF there could be shown any connection between CIA/Mossad and (the precursor of) ISIS in the past.

I apologize, I obviously jumped the gun on what you said. I'm sort of new (which is no excuse) and I think I've been a tad overzealous, especially in this thread. I've already had one post pulled for being OT.

You're right about this:

I thought this thread was about the CIA...

But Mossad isn't in the title, nor is demonizing Islam. The title is "ISIS: Created and Supported by the CIA?"

So I'll settle down and wait for new evidence to be posted that links the CIA to ISIS.

Sorry again if I came across as rude.
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
I apologize, I obviously jumped the gun on wha t you said. I'm sort of new (which is no excuse) and I think I've been a tad overzealous, especially in this thread. I've already had one post pulled for being OT.

But Mossad isn't in the title, nor is demonizing Islam. The title is "ISIS: Created and Supported by the CIA?"

So I'll settle down and wait for new evidence to be posted that links the CIA to ISIS.

Sorry again if I came across as rude.
You don't need to apologize. I could have been more specific about what I meant to say. The Mossad and the demonising thing are not in the title, but they appear in Chuck's first line of this thread. And most of the conspiracy claims that go around on the blogosphere indeed name CIA and Mossad together.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
Infowars and a number of websites have recently touted a declassified 2012 DIA document obtained by Judicial Watch as “proof” that the United States created ISIS.

http://www.infowars.com/media-ignores-report-showing-pentagon-created-isis/

https://medium.com/insurge-intellig...west-saw-isis-as-strategic-asset-b99ad7a29092


Of course, a careful read of the heavily redacted, seven-page document reveals no such links.

It does identify the main opposition groups involved in Syria as “the Salafist the Muslim Brotherhood, and AQI (Al Qaeda Iraq),” however, at no point does it mention ISIS or Western support for ISIS.

Assuming good faith for a moment, one of the mistakes that I see over and over again is the penchant for conflating the anti-Assad opposition into ISIS. The reality is far more complex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Alternatively, people like Alex Jones also make hysterical claims for the sake of pumping up their own volume.
 

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