Claim: Crashed Disc - Sierra Ladrones, NM [Rainwater Catchment - Removed]

[Giddierone]

UPDATE: The structure has been identified as a rainwater catchment that has since been removed and replaced by a different structure

I downloaded the CarryMap application on my phone and the "New Mexico Hunting Recreation Map" as described here:

https://www.blm.gov/maps/frequently...nting-maps#DownloadInformationandInstructions

The map has various BLM features marked and shows a catchment at these coordinates:

For the replacement structure, see:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/cl...rainwater-catchment-removed.13616/post-322009

---

This claim has been repeated on social media and Youtube in the past couple of days. It's another promotion by MrMBB333, who brought us the Pleiadian Craft debunked on Metabunk here.


Source: https://youtu.be/amokuYcWKrU?si=dtzphLigI3rra3xa&t=320
[from 5:20]

The location of the "crashed disc" is in the Sierra Ladrones Wilderness Study Area [34.40598497022758, -107.09569295078362]:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tZPNS8s2kNcUhTud7

You can use https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ to search for historical aerial photos (select Aerial Photo Single Frames) and download them yourself. Some are very large / hi-res files.

From a quick search there appears to have been a structure built on that exact spot from at least the 1975 so it seems unlikely anything coincidentally "crashed" there.

So what is it? A research station of some kind? Something related to the nearby testing range? Some suggested a wildlife catchment tank (which looks similar if not a bit smaller) or a Frank Loyd Wright project (it's not).

Are there similar structures elsewhere?

 

[Giddierone]

Close up from one 1975 image. [file name 4NMLCS0204020].

Close up from a 1978 image [file name 1VEOM00010043].

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

There was once maintained dirt road leading to it, which now shows signs of becoming overgrown.

My wild guess is a process water tank for gold mining. There are other circular marks in the ground.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I'm completely out of time and must go. I've found this map, though. Possible lead.

https://www.mindat.org/loc-33172.html

 

[Ann K]

There was once maintained dirt road leading to it, which now shows signs of becoming overgrown.

My wild guess is a process water tank for gold mining. There are other circular marks in the ground.

If the road appears to be overgrown (which I can't really tell) it might be very old indeed, because in a desert that's a process that can take a long time. From my days in New Mexico in the 1960s, the century-old route of the Butterfield Stage was still clearly visible from above, from the pass through the Organ mountains.

 

[Duke]

I've seen this before, but I can't remember where or what it was explained to be. I'm thinking I saw it on the "What on Earth?" series produced by the Science Channel.

What on Earth? is an American television program broadcast on Science Channel. It examines strange satellite imagery and speculates on what caused the strange phenomenon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_on_Earth?_(American_TV_program)

Sorry I can't be more specific, but if it was on "What on Earth?," it would have probably been an episode produced/released before the summer (June) of 2022. I say this because that summer my granddaughter and I watched the series a lot.

For those unfamiliar with the program, here's a clip to show the style and format of the series.


Source: https://youtu.be/AvNZ8gAe1Dw?si=ld-Oa2mlwapJUcMF

 

[Bob Jase]

If the road appears to be overgrown (which I can't really tell) it might be very old indeed, because in a desert that's a process that can take a long time. From my days in New Mexico in the 1960s, the century-old route of the Butterfield Stage was still clearly visible from above, from the pass through the Organ mountains.

Heck, Connecticut isn't a desert yet you can still follow old wagon roads through woods here that used to lead to farms that were abandoned over a century ago.

 

[JMartJr]

Some suggested a wildlife catchment tank (which looks similar if not a bit smaller)

I'm seeing that suggested by folks claiming to be hunters/ranchers. Of course you can claim to be anybody on the Internet...

Called "guzzlers," there ar a lot of designs and sizes, and are used for wildlife and livestock. This one in Utah was set op for pronghorns, it says HERE----> https://www.alignable.com/dalhart-tx/wildlife-watering-systems-llc/12-wildlife-guzzler

I find it interesting in that it has similar radial lines seen in some pics of the mystery structure, from 2013:

That's the earliest clear image I've got, compare it to this one from 2017:

It is clear the structure is deteriorating. Part of the tan colored section between 9:00 o'clock and 12:00 appears to have been torn off and tossed on top of the structure. I wonder if it is a deck or porch from a round house, torn off by wind? Round houses like this

were popular in the mountains near me back in the 70s or 80s, for some reason... I wonder if we're looking at some variation on that idea?

 

[JMartJr]

I've taken the rather daring step of reaching out to folks at Soccoro County, NM county government and at the Chamber of Commerce, to see if anybody there knows what it is. I confess this feels like cheating, but might be the best way to get a definitive answer. If I learn anything, I'll of course post it here.

 

[jdog]

I've seen this before, but I can't remember where or what it was explained to be. I'm thinking I saw it on the "What on Earth?" series produced by the Science Channel.

What on Earth? is an American television program broadcast on Science Channel. It examines strange satellite imagery and speculates on what caused the strange phenomenon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_on_Earth?_(American_TV_program)

Sorry I can't be more specific, but if it was on "What on Earth?," it would have probably been an episode produced/released before the summer (June) of 2022. I say this because that summer my granddaughter and I watched the series a lot.

For those unfamiliar with the program, here's a clip to show the style and format of the series.


Source: https://youtu.be/AvNZ8gAe1Dw?si=ld-Oa2mlwapJUcMF

That's a fun show, though every segment is at least twice as long as it needs to be, especially when they rehash things after the commercial break. I know a researcher who was on one of the episodes and he was happy enough to use clips on his website.

 

[Giddierone]

similar radial lines

Yeah, it looks quite a lot like a water catchment tank where part of it has deteriorated and flipped over onto the top. Note the radial lines. They can be around 10m across like the object in the google image.

There appears to be a similar thing nearby here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sierra+Ladrones/@34.4451939,-107.0640307,205m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x872195c4f88775db:0xffd9826f3d474bef!8m2!3d34.3939529!4d-106.9919765!16s/m/0k0_031?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

 

[deirdre]

Note the radial lines.

that seems to be called "the apron"
a 1997 pamphlet with everything you didnt need to know about "guzzlers"
https://ia600101.us.archive.org/16/items/wildlifewatercat00brig/wildlifewatercat00brig.pdf

us geological survey
https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1734f/report.pdf 1989


it seems that area is owned? by BLM 1976
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/The_proposed_Ladron_Mountain_Primitive_Area_-_a_resource_analysis_(IA_proposedladron1331mant).pdf

In addition to the seeps and springs there are alsotwo 5,000 gallon butyl rubber wildlife catchments locatedon the upper north and west sides of the mountain. Thesecatchments have always held water since construction andprovide excellent reliable water sources for wildlife.Both bags are reported to have numerous leaks caused by

 

[John J.]

In the title of the YouTube video posted by MrMBB333 (see @Giddierone's OP https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-crashed-disc-sierra-ladrones-nm.13616/post-321672), MrMBB333 refers to the feature as a "crashed flying disc".

There is no evidence that it ever flew, or ever had any potential for flight, and no such evidence is put forward.
MrMBB333 ignores the possibility of a structure that has been built in situ.

The argument "Partly circular, in a remote location, not immediately identifiable by me therefore crashed flying disc" is weak.

In his video, approx. 5 mins 53 to 5 mins. 56 in, MrMBB333 states

You can see half of it's stuck in the top of the mountain...

...and it does superficially look a bit like that,
screengrab from video, approx. 5 mins 54:

...but we can see from the 2013 and 2017 images posted by @JMartJr (post #8) that this is definitely not the case:

(2013)

(2017)

It looks very much like an arc-shaped segment from the left edge of the structure has been lifted (perhaps by the wind?) and deposited closer to the centre:

At approx. 5:20 to 5:22 in the video, MrMBB333 claims that at this location

...there's no roads, no trails...

...but in images posted by @Giddierone it appears there are trails, or at least there were, and that this structure is located just to the left of one of them. Not sure if the feature indicated by the yellow arrow is a path or a stream, or something else.

(My use of multiple unnecessary arrows might be inspired by Luis Elizondo's latest book ).

MrMBBB333 also points out "windows", which he might imagine are windows, but for which there is no evidence.

I don't think there's any sensible reason to believe that there's anything unusual about the structure, although it might be of a type most of us are unfamiliar with in day-to-day life.

 

[deirdre]

it appears there are trails

looking in Google Earth pro, that looks more like just the peak of the mountain ridge. based off its location and that big sheer rock face next to it, (and my Zoo Tycoon video game) i think it likely was placed for Bighorn sheep.

 

[Mick West]

This guy on Reddit is currently going to take a look:

https://www.reddit.com/user/menntu/

 

[JMartJr]

Not sure if the feature indicated by the yellow arrow is a path or a stream, or something else.

Would seem odd to have a well-defined stream bed right to the ridge, I'm thinking it is a path -- whether human or animal-blazed, I have no opinion...

based off its location and that big sheer rock face next to it, (and my Zoo Tycoon video game) i think it likely was placed for Bighorn sheep.

I am skeptical that is a real "cliff face" there, it seems to have the same sort of scrub bushes growing up it, just distorted and elongated by being mapped onto the 3D. I think that sudden drop off is just an artifact of how the thing is rendered. Could be wrong, of course. If anybody is in communication with menntu mentioned in Micks post above, maybe ask if they can see if the cliff is really there? ^_^

 

[Giddierone]

Here's a better shot of that intact "disc" on a nearby ridge. Same kind of thing?
From Google Earth 2013.

also, I have to say the Geoestimation tool in Earth Kit gives quite an odd result when you feed it the screenshot from Google maps, and no other prompts. It thinks similar things are all over New Mexico...

 

[deirdre]

I am skeptical that is a real "cliff face" there

youre right i rotated around and it drops off on the other side too

 

[Mauro]

From the elevation map, it looks to be on or pretty close to the mountain ridge (google maps).

 

[Mauro]

I agree with @Giddierone, @deirdre et. al. it's a damaged guzzler. From the first document linked by @deirdre (page 95) I guess it's the 'inverted apron/umbrella' type:

In this case, this could be the watering hole (or maybe not, it could also just be vegetation, but it's in the right direction for water flowing by gravity):

 

[Ann K]

but in images posted by @Giddierone it appears there are trails, or at least there were, and that this structure is located just to the left of one of them. Not sure if the feature indicated by the yellow arrow is a path or a stream, or something else.

No, I think the yellow arrows are the ones that point to a distinct road. It doesn't look like a waterway at all. Is it possible that the orange ones point to a blurrier much-used animal trackway along the ridge line?

 

[JMartJr]

Would seem odd to have a well-defined stream bed right to the ridge, I'm thinking it is a path -- whether human or animal-blazed, I have no opinion...

I have to come back and contradict myself a bit: IF the disk is indeed a water collector, then a fairly steady or intermittent-but-from-the-same-spot flow of water from that spot cutting a bed/ditch would make sense. The presence of a water collector there could explain the otherwise odd appearance of a stream bed starting all the way up at from the ridge line.

However, it still looks to me more like a track or path. With the constant reminder that "that's what it looks like to me" is not really evidence... ^_^

 

[deirdre]

it's a guzzler

heres some info about the BLM website with plans. i imagine the info is in there somewhere.

edit dead links, so field office website here https://www.blm.gov/office/socorro-field-office

BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
Socorro Field Office901 S Highway 85Socorro, New Mexico 87801
www.blm.gov/nm/st/en.html1617 (A020)

July 28, 2010
Dear Reader:I am pleased to present the Approved Resource Management Plan (RMP or the plan) for the Socorro Field Office. The signed Record of Decision (ROD) approves the Socorro RMP. The Approved RMP is the Proposed Alternative in the Proposed Socorro RMP with some minor decision modifications. The plan provides guidance for managing approximately 1.5 million surface acres and 6 million acres of Federal mineral estate in Socorro and Catron Counties.The Approved RMP was prepared under the regulations implementing the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 and the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969. The RMP contains new decisions and management actions for special designations such as Areas of Critical Environmental Concern, off-highway vehicle (OHV) use and designations, land tenure, visual resource management, minerals and renewable energy development, and avoidance and exclusion areas for rights-of-way. The Approved RMP replaces the 1989 Socorro RMP.Copies of the ROD and RMP are also on the BLM website at http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en.html. For additional information on the RMP, you may also contact the Socorro Field Office at 575-835-0412

https://eplanning.blm.gov/public_projects/lup/56599/67448/73390/RMP_Socorro_2010_08_20.pdf

 

[Mendel]

I'm a bit incredulous about a water collector being placed on a ridge—collecting water at the bottom makes more sense to me. Unless it utilizes the wind?

 

[deirdre]

I'm a bit incredulous about a water collector being placed on a ridge—collecting water at the bottom makes more sense to me. Unless it utilizes the wind?

its a rain catcher..although a ridge seems weird to me too unless the ridge is wider than we think and the sheep walk along the ridge.

0:10
a guzzler is a water catchment system
..
1:13
building a guzzler is to build the apron
or the roof that rain would fall on

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iDJSLou1yQ

 

[Mick West]

its a rain catcher..although a ridge seems weird to me too unless the ridge is wider than we think and the sheep walk along the ridge.

Being high up lets you pipe the water. Being on a ridge gives you more options.

 

[Giddierone]

Two more close up images from 1951 and 1991. No path or trail visible in '51 (no apparent construction either). In 1991 a trail is visible going left. I think it's unlikely to be created by running water as it doesn't appear to take the shortest path down hill - judging by the contor lines.

Some construction of some kind visible in 1991 with a trail to the left.

Close up from one 1975 image. [file name 4NMLCS0204020].
View attachment 70983

Close up from a 1978 image [file name 1VEOM00010043].
View attachment 70984

 

[Mauro]

Ironically, Flying Saucer guzzlers are a thing too...

https://texnat.tamu.edu/files/2018/08/Water-rainwater-harvesting-for-wildlife-2006.pdf

 

[deirdre]

Hey! That place is just over a mile and a half from my place!
Going up 36th st further takes you to a great drop-in point into Phoenix Mountain Preserve, about 10 sq mi of desert valleys and jagged peaks.
Lots of cool looking houses in the PHX area.

wrong thread.

 

[Ann K]

its a rain catcher..although a ridge seems weird to me too unless the ridge is wider than we think and the sheep walk along the ridge.

If there's a source of water, animals would certainly make tracks toward it.

 

[Ann K]

Hey! That place is just over a mile and a half from my place!
Going up 36th st further takes you to a great drop-in point into Phoenix Mountain Preserve, about 10 sq mi of desert valleys and jagged peaks.
Lots of cool looking houses in the PHX area.

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to find your way there and take some photos for us.

This tape will self-destruct in three seconds <** fizzle **>

 

[Jon Adams]

...
So what is it? A research station of some kind? Something related to the nearby testing range? Some suggested a wildlife catchment tank (which looks similar if not a bit smaller) or a Frank Loyd Wright project (it's not).

View attachment 70981

Are there similar structures elsewhere?

Hey! That place is just over a mile and a half from my place!
Going up 36th St further takes you to a great drop-in point into Phoenix Mountain Preserve, about 10 sq mi of desert valleys and jagged peaks.
Lots of cool looking houses in the PHX area.

 

[deirdre]

If there's a source of water, animals would certainly make tracks toward it.

yea but it defeats the purpose a bit making them travel out of their way.

 

[JMartJr]

yea but it defeats the purpose a bit making them travel out of their way.

But you can always pipe it down hill on either side to troughs at lower elevations. And if the apparent trail along the ridge is real, and is a game trail, SOME critters are up there, and might be thirsty!

A problem with the ridge location might be that you're going to risk wind coming up the hill getting under your "umbrella/skirt" bit, and tearing it off. Which in fact looks to have happened...

 

[MapperGuy]

Close up from one 1975 image. [file name 4NMLCS0204020].
View attachment 70983

Close up from a 1978 image [file name 1VEOM00010043].
View attachment 70984

The obvious trail coming in from the left side of these images clearly shows that people know there is something there of interest. People hike to this location and then turn around and go back the way they came. Funny how none of them ever reported the flying saucer sitting there.

 

[MonkeeSage]

I downloaded the CarryMap application on my phone and the "New Mexico Hunting Recreation Map" as described here:

https://www.blm.gov/maps/frequently...nting-maps#DownloadInformationandInstructions

The map has various BLM features marked and shows a catchment at these coordinates:

Edit: The other similar looking gray one is also marked as a catchment.

 

[Ravi]

That took not too long to debunk another ufo youtube grifter. Good job. He probably knows very well it is just a water catchment.
Of course, if it was a secret downed ufo, do you think the government will let it rot away in the desert? Rediculous.

 

[Mauro]

I downloaded the CarryMap application on my phone and the "New Mexico Hunting Recreation Map"...

Good job, thank you!

 

[MonkeeSage]

Good job, thank you!

Topographical maps were only showing large water features, but I thought a hunting map might possibly show some smaller stuff, especially if potentially game related. I didn't know BLM maintained a map file with all different features like that though, so lucky find!

 

[Giddierone]

Edit: The other similar looking gray one is also marked as a catchment.

Does the map incude an OSM tag for the catchements? i.e. man_made=water_catchement. I wonder if all catchements in New Mexico can be plotted in Overpass Turbo.