Chemtrails in the news

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Athens , GA news editor wrote an article:

[EX=Jim Thompson]The Editor's Desk
Athens Banner-Herald

Published Monday, May 09, 2011
A few weeks back, I wrote about "chemtrails." That's the name given to the condensation trails behind jet aircraft by people who believe the trails are actually chemicals being dispersed into the atmosphere for some nefarious purpose.

My thoughts found their way digitally to the editor of another Southern newspaper, who wrote:

"For the past two days I've been harassed by a somewhat prominent citizen in this community who cannot believe I won't take a photo of jet contrails and write a story exposing the vast conspiracy to ... well, do something - he's not real clear on that.

This morning I threw him out of my office, something I have never done before in 37 years in this business - verbally only, but he (and everyone here) could tell I meant it."


Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Who doubts that besides reading the article itself, many, including Murphy individually & Close Associates are also getting down into the comments section. Their promotion of the article is actually working against them as many who have no idea get exposed to somethng outside MJM's sphere of influence. I really enjoy taking the battle to the top and this has been fun.

One interesting person who hasn't shown up in the debate is MJM himself. Just like Carnicom and William Thomas, they send out their worker bees while they hide.

BTW, Dave Baker is the meteorologist at KATC, and I congratulate him.

But I'm sure Dave didn't appreciate the threat, which was very bad form.
Clare Swinney said:
I told him I am a holistic practitioner with real live patients with morgellons disease and maybe he would like a dose of morgellons.

Jay Reynolds

In case someone wants to know what the woman is talking about, Morgellons is an element which merged with the chemtrail hoax about 2006, though it started earlier. It is a very sick hoax when you realize that it has been promoted by both well meaning and delusional people, medical quacksters, and outright fabricators. The last two profit or derive pleasure from the fears of very weak people some of whom have severe mental problems.

A least one person committed suicide over this hoax which makes it possibly worse than chemtrails.

So sick that I couldn't bear further contact with it. Extremely sick stuff.

There is this skeptical site, I think the owner had enough, too. To see the fabrications, just read the comments, if you dare.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Interesting about you and that site, Mick. I do recall that there was someone making comments there that were wholly fantasy, but seemed to be designed by a rational person to lure others in to the world of morgellons.
Did you ever get that impression?

Mick West

Staff member
Well, there's 14,000 comments there, so quite possibly.

Certainly some of the quacks who were offering a diagnosis (and hence treatment) of Morgellons, seemed to be more salesmen than scientist. But for many of the people involved, their minds were made up, and their interest was in promotion, not really in investigation.


The first comment on the paper's website seems to have been written by someone who thinks "Stargate Atlantis" is a documentary, rather than fiction.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Why We Fight

My dad obsessed with conspiracy theorys?
So, Im starting to worry about my dad. Ever since i told him you can see your house from google earth 2 years ago he's become crazy. He started researching nonstop about illuminati/conspiracys his newest thing is chemtrails. A year ago he moved to Panama in fear the government was after him and brought us with him. My mom totally rejected his ideas untill recently she's believing it's an us vs government fight. He's bought guns and ammo and wants to stockpile food and water. He believes in an alien attack and pretty much sits at his computer 12 hours a day watching NON STOP videos and occasionaly taking work calls. I watched him yesturday and he was bighting his lip/nails and looked super paranoid and was freaking out about the chemtrails video. Getting help isn't really an option becuase he believes he has no problem at all, even though this is all he talks about. My parents both believe in god and the bible which is the reason they give me for "knowing the end" It's rediculous what should I do

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
The age of credulity
"This strange credulity is growing. Many reporters remember when there were a few guys with fax machines who sent us badly typed letters analysing why the Kennedy assassination was a hoax. Now it has spread to everything. We are besieged with claims that H1N1 vaccine will kill you, that Obama was born in Kenya and is secretly a Muslim (to the point where he actually had to produce his birth certificate, for heaven's sake), and that aircraft contrails are actually "chemtrails" - mind control drugs sprayed on us by the government."

Timothy Taylor can’t resist society’s ‘rabbit holes’
"Timothy Taylor was recently walking around downtown Vancouver when he came across a gathering of “Architects for 9/11 Truth.” The idea, he says, is that 35,000 architects have signed a petition alleging that the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were an inside job, and the group was spreading their findings with the general public.

“I cannot stay away from stuff like that,” Taylor says with a sly smile, “so I walked up to the table and started talking to them."

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
NASA Admits Ionospheric Chemtrails Created Sunday, Plans More Tomorrow

Two sounding rockets launched Sunday to deploy chemtrails in the ionosphere:

Two more will go up Tuesday, release of lithium:

Possibly as a result of mass panic due to the previus experiments of 2003, when trimethyl aluminum clouds at 56 miles above the earth resulted
in a release of aluminum oxide:

The current experiment utilizes a rocket 14 inches diameter and six feet long, which could carry at most a payload of approximately 6 cubic feet in volume.

In unrelated news, after releasing thousands of tons of aluminum oxide containing ash into the sky, the eruption of Mount Soputan in Indonesia has stopped:

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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
ABC 15 in Arizona has hosted a written chemtrails debate featuring former state senator Karen Johnson.
Johnson repeats the whole enchilada from Michael Murphy including all the falsehoods (someone needs to let her know what we found).
A U of AZ professor describes basc contrail science.
The comments were mostly positive, chemmies aren't bragging about this one.......expect the typical angry backlash.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Dutchsinse gets debunked by KCET

KCET said:
This month's breaking news from the Central Mojave: The Pisgah Crater, a cinder cone two miles south of Interstate 40 near Ludlow, California that has likely been dormant for at least 20,000 years, is not erupting.

That's right: not erupting. The US Geological Survey has even issued a press statement to that effect, after two agency geologists were interviewed by local press. Why? Because a fellow going by the name of Dutch Sinse, a conspiracy buff far from the Mojave Desert, viewed NEXRAD doppler radar videos of what would seem to be monsoonal storm cells and declared them to be "volcanic plumes" -- an eruption, of sorts, in progress.


Closed Account
ABC 15 in Arizona has hosted a written chemtrails debate featuring former state senator Karen Johnson.
Johnson repeats the whole enchilada from Michael Murphy including all the falsehoods (someone needs to let her know what we found).
A U of AZ professor describes basc contrail science.
The comments were mostly positive, chemmies aren't bragging about this one.......expect the typical angry backlash.

Readign the comments there are some questions there that you'd expect people to be able to answer themselves - unfortunately i'm at work ATM & don't have access to join the forum (it's via FB...& that is blocked), but if anyone wants to make a point on my behalf I'd be happy for them to use this info.

apart from the usual attempts at character assination of the professor, someone has asked what a/c they had that could reach that high & linked to a list of WW1 military a/c.

I don't know what type of a/c created the reported contrails from 1917 - but some of the a/c of that era also had sevice ceilings of almost 20,000 feet - eg the Albatross DIII 18,000, Fokker Dr 1 (Triplane) 20,000, Sopwith Triplane 20,500.

Most fighters by the end of the war had service ceilings in the order of 20,000 feet, and the big German bombers (Gotha, Fredrischaven) were up at 21,000+ feet - service ceiling is defined as the altitude at which the maximum rate of climb is only 100 ft per minute.

Take out the machineguns & ammo & they'll go a lot higher!

The world altitude record in 1920 was 33,000 or so feet, made with a LUSAC 11 - a 1918 vintage US 2 seat a/c modified with a turbocharger & oxygen.


Mick West

Staff member
There's a detailed discussion here. The key point being that you do occasionally get contrails at 20,000 feet.;col1

The First World War started in 1914, a little over a decade after Orville Wright coaxed his frail, primitive flying machine aloft for a twelve-second flight that covered a scant forty yards, about the length of a long pass in the National Football League. (2) Given the immaturity of aviation technology, it is not surprising that European powers opened the war with small air forces comprised of planes that were so slow that they could scarcely keep pace with today's freeway traffic. Moreover, these planes were open-cockpit machines that were generally limited to altitudes below 12,000 feet. By the end of the war, however, frontline aircraft could reach speeds of 130 mph and operate as high as 20,000 feet. (3)

While this operational ceiling is still below the band between 25,000 and 40,000 feet where atmospheric conditions are most often conducive to contrail formation, (4) planes flying at 20,000 feet and even lower can generate contrails under the proper conditions of temperature and humidity. Therefore, in the later stages of the Great War, contrail-generating flights would have become increasingly common as the operational ceilings of first-line aircraft increased. Given the number of planes flying over the Western Front and the number of men on the ground with a vital interest in watching the skies for hostile aircraft, it was virtually inevitable that substantial numbers of people would eventually notice that at least some high-flying planes were producing long thin clouds as they crossed the skies.

In early October 1918, while the American Expeditionary Force was engaged in the Meuse-Argonne offensive, several hundred AEF members noticed a number of strange clouds that seemed to emanate from high-flying aircraft and stretch across much of the sky. Three of these observers thought the phenomenon unusual enough to take special note of it. After the war the three independently brought their observations to the attention of the public.

And see:


Senior Member.

I know it's naughty, but I signed it.

Before you start telling me I'm not helping, just think about what signing a petition to outlaw a fiction actually means. Nothing. The whole of the Bible Belt could sign it and it would still mean nothing.

I also added a comment:
I'm signing this ironically, as there is no reason not to sign a petition outlawing a fiction. The 'petition' falls apart in the 2nd para, for the same reason it falls apart at the 4th: it has been consistently scientifically disproven that contrails are anything other than they have always been since 1921. Don't blame the government for your ignorance of simple aviation and meteorology.

I wonder if they understand what ironically means...

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Probably not. I have found that irony is totally lost on the type of intellect that falls for the chemtrails idea.
I have a vague idea that the inability to recognise irony is a symptom of a certain mild mental illness. (I don't know which one.)


Senior Member.
This striking case of pareidolia is from Grand Falls, Canada, a few days ago.

Clearly it's not a 'chemtrail', but then we say that, and nearly every visual atmospheric phenomena is being misunderstood and linked to the hoax these days.
I'm Surprised it hasn't already been re-posted by Tankerenemy...


Closed Account
I'm not sure if this is news or not, but apparently a friend of Dutchsince was recently shot and badly wounded in his bed - http://ascendingstarseed.wordpress....t-5x-with-ak-47-dutch-now-in-secure-location/

And of course it is beign seen as a "warning" because the person was shot in the limbs...

Local news has a story on it which basically repeats the facts of the crime -

I'm sur we'll be hearign more about this - I'm surprised it hasn't been more widely mentioned by the CT fraternity....

Mick West

Staff member
Feel free to start new threads on any news stories, especially if they are likely to generate follow-up discussions.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Youtube video calling for the Serbian military to shoot down planes, not to wait for orders from their command?
I can read the subtitles, but cannot confirm their accuracy.
Can anyone translate to be sure?
This fellow appears to lead what sounds like the 'Green' party of Novi Sad, Serbia's second largest city with a population of 250,000.
Anthony Hilder has unfortunately put his support behind the statements in the video above. He tells his followers that
"They are poisoning you"
"You will die, if you continue to go on that course."
"Nikola Aleksic has the answer, if you'll listen, if you'll but see"
"He's doing that which needs to be done"
"He's speaking up for you because some of you just won't speak up."
"Death Dumps which contain nanoparticles of akluminum oxide, strontium, barium, sulfur hexaflouride, manganese, arsenic. They intend to kill you."
"The air above is not safe to breathe, the water is not safe to drink, the food is not safe to eat"
"We have to speak out, we have to touch, and we have to reach out"
"Nikola Aleksic is giving you guidance, I pray that you take it."
"The air now that you breathe over your country is often worse than what they breathed in the camps at Auschwitz"
"I hope that you can get the translation."


Senior Member.

Forget the imagined atrocity of the 'chemtrail' hoax. Lets focus on the real atrocity: the design of Anthony Hilder's website.
It's a classic; red, white and blue text, all bold, flashing banners, all set against dark repeated popular 'illuminati' imagery.

But seriously, this is ridiculous. We would all agree that squeezing money out of people stupid enough to fall deep enough into this hoax to part with it is basically pathetic. Anthony Hilder doesn't seem satisfied with being pathetic, and is instead encouraging and pushing those people he now has power over to commit violence, convincing them of righteous absolution. He seems to be actively digging down to truly despicable.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
This youtube video features a talk by Ken Caldeira and two others about geoengineering proposals. At the end, during Q & A, some cemtrail believers begin asking questions just after the 1 hour 5 minute mark, and continue after the session ends. You can see that Caldeira and the others expect and recognize that conspiracy theorists are there, but don't respond very well. I think that they have gone through it before, don't understand what is happening and don't feel it is productive or that they will be able to make a difference. As a result, their response isn't productive, they get frustrated, and end it by walking away.

On the chemtrails believer side, the most interesting and sad part is at 1 hour 19 minutes, where chemtrail believers demonstrate complete ignorance of
lapse rate, contrail historical photos, spatial variation of humidity, and contrail persistence. They claim that WITWATS is "peer reviewed", claim that magnesium is in chemtrails, claim that Rosalind Peterson was hired by the government to do soil analysis, claim that geoengineering has been going on for 18 years, claim that contails last for only a minute, and that Weather Modification, Inc. and Evergreen Aviation are involved.

At the end, one chemmie says that even if it's not spraying, water vapor contrails are geoengineering......

It is quite obvious that these people haven't a clue how many things they have been told that are completely wrong.

What this shows is that a great opportunity exists to educate Caldeira and ohers in what is being claimed, the common misinformation and how to easily counter it, and that whenever they get confronted by chemmies, they should verbally plug verbally so that it is part of he video record.

Mick West

Staff member
Which video? Did you forget to link it?

Ken Caldeira (not Caldiera - I corrected your post for Google) did actually tell me he directs people interested in chemtrails to, however he tends not to engage the "true believers", as it's not been very productive.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Woops, got in a rush on the road.
Here is the link:

It's good that he recommends your site. It would be great if he could develop a better response and get acquainted with what their claims are and their weak points, but I agree he probably gets frustrated. He better get used to this, they aren't going away soon, and he and fellow scientists have actually been 'targeted'.

Mick West

Staff member
The thing is, these are the old-school classic chemtrailers, who claim that "normal" contrails are short. That really should be the point of debate there. Plenty of people remember the long contrails. The evidence for them is quite conclusive. That should really be the point that is focussed on.

And maybe the samples.

The second guy, Dan Whaley, did a bit better job. I think though that since they did not arrive at the talk expecting to have to debate chemtrails, then they really were not into it.

Mick West

Staff member
That's a rather impressive list there from Greg. Unfortunately it also illustrates one of the problems with debunking. It's such a huge dump of information that nobody is going to read through it all.

Debunking doesn't just have to be correct and comprehensive. It also has to be accessible.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Alfred Webre and Leuren Moret go off the deep end

In this web page, Webre admits he wrote Kucinich's Bill that banned "chemtrails". Kucinich pulled the Bill, which he had evidently not even read, and now Webre and Moret are blaming him for just about every disaster over the past decade, plus "the long term depopulation of the human race":
Alfred Lambremount Webre said:
The environmental warfare events created by the HAARP and chemtrails (space-based and atmosphere-based) weapons system includes at least, by the evidence the following: 9/11 (the molecular dissociation and collapse of the World Center twin towers); the Katrina Hurricane of 2005; the 2008 Myanmar cyclone (150,000) dead); the 2008 China earthquake (80,000 dead); the 2010 Haiti earthquake (200, 000 dead); and the March 11, 2011 Fukushima false flag tectonic and global radiation attack. The results of the Fukushima event, triggered by the HAARP and chemtrails (space-based and atmosphere-based) weapons system includes a projected 100,000 deaths in USA and Canada by the end of 2011, the radiation contamination of Japan, USA and Canada, and long-term radiation depopulation of the human race.

They really demonize Dr. Paul A. Bernhardt, too.
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Mick West

Staff member
Off the deep end? Maybe you've not seen the time travel stuff where DARPA travel into the future to get a copy of Webre's book to predict the election.

DARPA’s Project Pegasus (1968-73) under which the U.S. government program of quantum access Tesla-based teleportation and time travel was developed was historically under the control of then-U.S. President Richard M. Nixon’s cabinet member Donald H. Rumsfeld.
Mr Basiago revealed that the reason Project Pegasus was able to identify Mr Carter, who was the then Governor of George, in 1971, as a future U.S. President, is that the program was in possession of a copy of Exopolitics: Politics, Government and Law in the Universe by Alfred Lambremont Webre—a book that this reporter would not write until 1999 and would not be published as a library book until 2005, but which bears a quote on its front pages of a statement made by President Jimmy Carter.
According to him, Mr Webre's book Exopolitics was, among other written works, physically retrieved from the future by Project Pegasus and brought back in time to 1971 or a prior time. At that time, 1971, Mr Webre was General Counsel of the New York City Environmental Protection Administration and had been placed under time travel surveillance by the U.S. government.

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
There is a book out there someone could write about the many figures who start off as ordinary or even extraordinary people, but who take wrong turns in their lives and descend into a world that is so deeply flawed. David Icke, Leonard Horowitz, Webre are a few. Evidently respected or high achieving individuals but who turn out to be raving nutters, I have no earthly idea what causes this, yet there is bound to be something behind it.
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