Chemtrail discussion: ethics, psyops, and stuff

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
[This partial thread spun off from elsewhere]

Don't take me for a fool, George.
And how would I do that Jay?? It has been my policy since 2009 to research all facts on my own . . . from their original sources . . . my theories are my own (can you find anyone else with my position?). . . . I may have accidentally stumbled upon a study done by someone that I had to go to a website to view . . . because it was the only source . . . I never even noted who are the kingpins of the movement . . . I learned almost all that here. . . .

In all my Threads, since I started in 2009, there are rare cites for Whistleblowers. . . . Which I am sure has to be from a chemtrail website or sites . . . And one study of a contrail study in Houston Texas. . . . If you find any others that I cited . . . I would be amazed. . .

I realize to you this is a war . . . you have been waging for 10 years or more . . . In comparison I am very new to your battleground and don't comprehend the emotional investment you have spent . . . to me it is more of an intellectual exercise and is part of a larger battle between strict empiricism and subjective intuition . . . it is also a battle between an underdog (Chemtrail supporters) and all the rest . . .I always seem to relate to the underdog . . . it is my nature . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I have never supported any Chemtrail supposed leader or even visited their websites except by mistake when referred to them by a debunker . . . I don't see how responsible discussion of the Chemtrail conspiracy theories can be held responsible for this kind of behavior by a few cooks and zealots . . . .
I do.

Your totally speculative "there could be 14 747's spraying sulphates we don't know about" theory is exactly the sort of ill-informed and baseless conjecture that gives credence to the more crackpot theories, and thus helps supply "moral justification" for these threats.

I'm sure you won't agree, but that's how I feel about you and your "responsible discussion".
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I do.

Your totally speculative "there could be 14 747's spraying sulphates we don't know about" theory is exactly the sort of ill-informed and baseless conjecture that gives credence to the more crackpot theories, and thus helps supply "moral justification" for these threats.

I'm sure you won't agree, but that's how I feel about you and your "responsible discussion".
So it is your conclusion my speculation gives them credibility and motivation to continue . . .?? That presupposes at least three things . . .
1) They know what I have said
2) In their minds I fundamentally support their beliefs and specifically that persistent contrails are chemtrails
3) And my discussions are inflammatory . . . they fuel fear and inappropriate action or the need to act or talk out with threats etc. . . .

Why then have I also been accused of being a Shill and a government agent . . .?? If people are interested in what I have to say I think they are not of the lunatic fringe . . .

PS . . . Do you then also blame anyone who speculates about the possibility of ongoing covert activity or even the geoengineering specialists and scientists who publish the proposals and cost analysis showing such a project is possible as fueling the debate . . . and motivating threats????

Where do you draw the line??
 

Fred259

New Member
Its grossly irresponsible George to use key anchor phrases. Expression like “ongoing covert activity” and
“ geo-engineering specialists”. Earlier you posted up about 14 covert B747's


The bottom line is that none of this is happening now and has never happened in the past.


Therefore;

No covert activities

No Geo-engineering

No Spraying / Chemtrails

and

No Covert 14 B747.

Given the above, the Government aren’t trying to kill you and so you should at least take some comfort from that.

What is happening here is that large sections of society are demoralised. This is a form of Psyops or subversion. A whole generation of people in the US / UK and the English speaking world at large have been exposed to this idealogical subversion and as such they are unable to process information correctly.

Even is you strip a B747 down to its main spar and go through all the components painstakingly one by one.. If they then reassemble the aircraft and spend a week flying around the world in the jump seat, they will still come out and say that these aircraft are chem-trailing. The reason for this is that their “perception of reality has been permanently changed” and as such they are unable to process information correctly.

Therefore we must conclude that those people who believe that aircraft are spraying chemicals or Geo engineering are victims of this process.

The reason why they continually keep re-visiting and discussing geo-engineering is because its part of the soft drip, drip, drip soft feed directly into the brains of these demoralised people in society. This is the Psyops, or Psychological warfare to be precise.

If its not Chemtrails its HAARP. Exactly the same process is being used to destroy those who choose to absorb this total utter rubbish. In American speak, its total utter BS.

HAARP is an atmospheric research project. VLF radio waves are for long range communication with submarines and in the past for long range navigation in aircraft via a system called Omega. HF is used for long range voice communication. For example Qantas overhead Kazakhstan, can only communicate with Sydney head office by using HF radio. Its for communicating, its voice intelligence modulated (attached) onto the HF carrier wave. None of these radio waves are remotely capable of causing earthquakes, moving weather fronts or steering hurricanes from the tropical Atlantic up the east coast of the US and down the Hudson river!! For goodness sake folks get a grip. The people who are putting out this total nonsense are sitting back drinking scotch, smoking cigars and laughing at you!
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Even is you strip a B747 down to its main spar and go through all the components painstakingly one by one.. If they then reassemble the aircraft ....
That's pretty much what is done in a 'D-Check'.
No hole is left unexplored.

And to no rational persons surprise, there has never been any 'chemtrail' equipment ever found.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Its grossly irresponsible George to use key anchor phrases. Expression like “ongoing covert activity” and
“ geo-engineering specialists”. Earlier you posted up about 14 covert B747's


The bottom line is that none of this is happening now and has never happened in the past.


Therefore;

No covert activities

No Geo-engineering

No Spraying / Chemtrails

and

No Covert 14 B747.

Given the above, the Government aren’t trying to kill you and so you should at least take some comfort from that.

What is happening here is that large sections of society are demoralised. This is a form of Psyops or subversion. A whole generation of people in the US / UK and the English speaking world at large have been exposed to this idealogical subversion and as such they are unable to process information correctly.

Even is you strip a B747 down to its main spar and go through all the components painstakingly one by one.. If they then reassemble the aircraft and spend a week flying around the world in the jump seat, they will still come out and say that these aircraft are chem-trailing. The reason for this is that their “perception of reality has been permanently changed” and as such they are unable to process information correctly.

Therefore we must conclude that those people who believe that aircraft are spraying chemicals or Geo engineering are victims of this process.

The reason why they continually keep re-visiting and discussing geo-engineering is because its part of the soft drip, drip, drip soft feed directly into the brains of these demoralised people in society. This is the Psyops, or Psychological warfare to be precise.

If its not Chemtrails its HAARP. Exactly the same process is being used to destroy those who choose to absorb this total utter rubbish. In American speak, its total utter BS.

HAARP is an atmospheric research project. VLF radio waves are for long range communication with submarines and in the past for long range navigation in aircraft via a system called Omega. HF is used for long range voice communication. For example Qantas overhead Kazakhstan, can only communicate with Sydney head office by using HF radio. Its for communicating, its voice intelligence modulated (attached) onto the HF carrier wave. None of these radio waves are remotely capable of causing earthquakes, moving weather fronts or steering hurricanes from the tropical Atlantic up the east coast of the US and down the Hudson river!! For goodness sake folks get a grip. The people who are putting out this total nonsense are sitting back drinking scotch, smoking cigars and laughing at you!
Someone please interpret the above . . . I have no idea what you are talking about . . . Psyops?????
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
As in, an operation to change the psychology of a large group of people.

A vision of the world has been invented and transmitted, with attendent changes in the believer's outlook and psychology - an increase in fear and distrust, and a willingness to accept irrational conclusions without proper investigation.
The 'operation' could just be for money, or someone wanting to set the scene for a large pool of disgruntled people, capable of being steered in a certain way.
I don't think it goes that far, I think it's just a meme-virus that creates a market for those willing to capitalise on it.
And destroys the mental health of those who really believe it's happening.
It's hugely unethical.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
As in, an operation to change the psychology of a large group of people.

A vision of the world has been invented and transmitted, with attendent changes in the believer's outlook and psychology - an increase in fear and distrust, and a willingness to accept irrational conclusions without proper investigation.
The 'operation' could just be for money, or someone wanting to set the scene for a large pool of disgruntled people, capable of being steered in a certain way.
I don't think it goes that far, I think it's just a meme-virus that creates a market for those willing to capitalise on it.
And destroys the mental health of those who really believe it's happening.
It's hugely unethical.
I understand the concept . . . who is he implying is using Psyops and for what expected outcome???
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
As in, an operation to change the psychology of a large group of people.

A vision of the world has been invented and transmitted, with attendent changes in the believer's outlook and psychology - an increase in fear and distrust, and a willingness to accept irrational conclusions without proper investigation.
The 'operation' could just be for money, or someone wanting to set the scene for a large pool of disgruntled people, capable of being steered in a certain way.
I don't think it goes that far, I think it's just a meme-virus that creates a market for those willing to capitalise on it.
And destroys the mental health of those who really believe it's happening.
It's hugely unethical.
Indeed. I think George B is confused by the use of the term "psyops" because of the connotation it carries, that of something perpetrated by a shady government organization. The reality is however that a "psyop" can be carried out by any individual or group, and the various chemtrail/HAARP/NWO/etc groups are a great example of this.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
So it is your conclusion my speculation gives them credibility and motivation to continue . . .?? That presupposes at least three things . . .
If you care to read my post again you will see that I said that your speculation is the "...SORT of.....theory...." that helps them continue.

I have no ide how many actually read your posts here.

Why then have I also been accused of being a Shill and a government agent . . .?? If people are interested in what I have to say I think they are not of the lunatic fringe . . .
IMO the last 2 words are sufficient to explain your initial question - "believers" have a number of competing theories - it would not surprise me for them to consider someone who proposes something different to be a shill/disinfo agent.

PS . . . Do you then also blame anyone who speculates about the possibility of ongoing covert activity or even the geoengineering specialists and scientists who publish the proposals and cost analysis showing such a project is possible as fueling the debate . . . and motivating threats????

Where do you draw the line??
I draw the line at someone who is in a forum I am participating in.
 

Fred259

New Member
That's pretty much what is done in a 'D-Check'.
No hole is left unexplored.

And to no rational persons surprise, there has never been any 'chemtrail' equipment ever found.
Indeed Billzilla, here we go B747 D Check video.


30,000 man hours, 200 engineers, around the clock, 5 weeks.

This is a major check as Billzilla has pointed out and this is just one aircraft for one airline. Much the same is happening every day at maintenance organisations around the world.


Another thing, has anyone ever found a circuit breaker for this so called Chemtrail pump. Which panel is it on? Has anyone got a wiring diagram? I'm sick to death going through page after page of diagrams without any luck.


 

Fred259

New Member
[
QUOTE=Pete Tar;20344]As in, an operation to change the psychology of a large group of people.
Yes. Bang on.


A vision of the world has been invented and transmitted, with attendent changes in the believer's outlook and psychology - an increase in fear and distrust, and a willingness to accept irrational conclusions without proper investigation.
Yes. This is Correct.

I’m trying to understand the mindset of those who think they are being sprayed from the stratosphere and more importantly why they are now posting ridiculous comments such as shooting at aircraft and interrogating pilots!


I’m also trying to understand the so called truth industry that has evolved over the last 10-15 years. The people who seem to strive for the truth are the very same people who subscribe to sites like Project Camalot, Jeff Rense Carnicon, and all the other alternative news forums.


I’m talking here about Idealogical Subversion, Psychological Warfare or PsyOps as its known for short.


What has happened to the American Dream? Indeed what has happened to America? The same can also be said of the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and much of the English speaking world.


Idealogical Subversion is the psychological process that is used to destroy an enemy. Yuri Andropov, President of the then USSR said “ We will destroy America without wasting one bullet”


It helps if you are older in order to understand this. For the last 40 years Russia has slowly infiltrated every aspect of Western Society and destroyed our way of life from within. What has happened with the once great US Education system? Infiltrated and now destroyed we are left with these half backed intellectuals in every department of government who were psychologically conditioned to think and behave in a certain way. These people are now running the United States. Its exactly the same situation in the United Kingdom.


Embedded within society are people like Alex Jones, Rense, Michael Murphy who 30 years ago were the very types who were running around protesting the Vietnam War. The Soviet Union of course infiltrated the peace movement controlling its direction and above all funded its activities.


30 years on its the Jones, Rense, Cassidy, and Murphy brigade who are still at it. They were conditioned to behave and think this way and so now all these years later they are corrupting and contaminating the mindsets of a new generation. Its this new generation who are being manipulated and conditioned to think differently be it chemtrails HAARP and the absolutely mindless Morgellons! This was all planned. Its part of the agenda. This is Idealogical Subversion.


Yuri Bezmanov a former KGB officer in the video below describes this process. I strongly urge you to set aside time to listen to his message. It's critically serious. The video was recorded 25 years ago after he defected to Canada where he was given a new identity as Tomas Schuman.


While watching the video keep in the back of your mind the forum and this thread and the troubled minds of many who have been conditioned to believe in chemtrails.






This second video is the same video as the one above. Its the same video, and the same voiceover and the same message. In this second video someone has added photo images from society today and if you watch this second video I promise you cant fail to understand the problem.





( Voiceover recorded in 1985, with images inserted from today)


This therefore is the problem. This is also the problem we have with those who believe in chemtrails.


Its now getting serious. Ridiculous comments such as shooting down aircraft (as if it were actually possible) confirm just how confused many of these people are. Those who are posting these threats aren’t bad people, rather they are victims of the confused message.​
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I’m talking here about Idealogical Subversion, Psychological Warfare or PsyOps as its known for short.


What has happened to the American Dream? Indeed what has happened to America? The same can also be said of the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and much of the English speaking world.


Idealogical Subversion is the psychological process that is used to destroy an enemy. Yuri Andropov, President of the then USSR said “ We will destroy America without wasting one bullet”


It helps if you are older in order to understand this. For the last 40 years Russia has slowly infiltrated every aspect of Western Society and destroyed our way of life from within. What has happened with the once great US Education system? Infiltrated and now destroyed we are left with these half backed intellectuals in every department of government who were psychologically conditioned to think and behave in a certain way. These people are now running the United States. Its exactly the same situation in the United Kingdom.


Embedded within society are people like Alex Jones, Rense, Michael Murphy who 30 years ago were the very types who were running around protesting the Vietnam War. The Soviet Union of course infiltrated the peace movement controlling its direction and above all funded its activities.


30 years on its the Jones, Rense, Cassidy, and Murphy brigade who are still at it. They were conditioned to behave and think this way and so now all these years later they are corrupting and contaminating the mindsets of a new generation. Its this new generation who are being manipulated and conditioned to think differently be it chemtrails HAARP and the absolutely mindless Morgellons! This was all planned. Its part of the agenda. This is Idealogical Subversion.
That doesn't make any sense to me. The education system might not be as good as it once was (and I'm not sure I'd even agree with that), but it's still producing many intellectuals. Were politicians really more intelligent 40 years ago? I'd grant you Bush, but Were Reagan and Carter more "intellectual" than Clinton and Obama?

Suspicious and paranoid people have always existed in all societies. Over 40 years ago we had just the same kind of people harping on about vaccines and fluoridation conspiracies. There's no need to invent some secret infiltration by the KGB in order to explain it.



And such things go back hundreds of years:
http://www.dancutlermedicalart.com/AlbertEinstein'sZionism/01EinsteinBeforeZionism.htm

What is happening to the American Dream? Nothing new. We just have the internet now.
 
Last edited:

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Thanks for that, Fred, an excellent video.

So, George, why has nothing ever been found on any airliner ever? Even with extremely thorough and invasive checks?
1) The injection equipment is likely modular
2) The maintenance is accomplished in a secured location by dedicated employees of the injection operation
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
That doesn't make any sense to me. The education system might not be as good as it once was (and I'm not sure I'd even agree with that), but it's still producing many intellectuals. Were politicians really more intelligent 40 years ago? I'd grant you Bush, but Were Reagan and Carter more "intellectual" than Clinton and Obama?

Suspicious and paranoid people have always existed in all societies. Over 40 years ago we had just the same kind of people harping on about vaccines and fluoridation conspiracies. There's no need to invent some secret infiltration by the KGB in order to explain it.



And such things go back hundreds of years:
http://www.dancutlermedicalart.com/AlbertEinstein'sZionism/01EinsteinBeforeZionism.htm

What is happening to the American Dream? Nothing new. We just have the internet now.
Cultures evolve . . . change is hard . . . people get left behind . . . American Public Education is more concerned in creating a mono-culture than maintaining high academic standards . . . PsyOps has nothing to do with the Chemtrail Conspiracy . . .
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Billzilla

Senior Member.
1) The injection equipment is likely modular
2) The maintenance is accomplished in a secured location by dedicated employees of the injection operation

Really?
So where does it plug in?
And how would these airliners get to some obscure place without disrupting the schedules or otherwise be noticed as missing?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I'm not ready to commit to the demoralization of society yet, and maybe this isn't the place for a totally political discussion, but so far as the chemtrails believers and conspiracy theory mindset, the whole thing does definitely demoralize these people, and many of them already come psychologically damaged, confused, and seem hopeless. They might become focused by this thing, but it is anirratonal focus that leads downhill not up. That sort of person has always been the prime target for cults, those who are in a weakened state in some way, and easily manipulated. The media both traditional film and now social is now being used to capture them very effectively.

Fred, you need to read "Among The Truthers" to get a fuller understanding of how this culture works, even though the author is left wing he does a good job of recounting what has happened.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Really?
So where does it plug in?
And how would these airliners get to some obscure place without disrupting the schedules or otherwise be noticed as missing?
Hidden in plain sight . . . some charter or transport company contracted by military, government, or front Corporation in US, Canada, Russia, Northern Europe . . . flies from one location to another with pretense of moving secure or sensitive cargo . . . I saw mystery aircraft on military airfields frequently . . . I use to watch 747s do touch and goes for hours at an obscure North Texas Military Airfield . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
You not knowing what a particular aircraft is doing does not make it a "mystery aircraft" - it just shows that you had limited knowledge at the time.

Modular equipment still requires somewhere to fit, and somewhere to "spray from".

you are just making ideas up to counter every "real world" difficulty, without regard to anything other than preserving your own pet theory. your continued behaviour in this manner confirms to me that you have no actual interest in reality, and your type of speculative fiction is EXACTLY what chemmies do all the time - eg this thread on ATS where one chemmie invents a conspiracy whereby the DOD apparently datamine anyone using the Andriod Flightradar24 App, on hte basis that there are supercomputers and Sweden wants to get hold of Assange in order to extradite him to the USA! He starts by asking "does this happen?" - and then rapidly degenerates into "of course it does and if you don't believe it you are a fool" - with support from fellow believers.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I'm not ready to commit to the demoralization of society yet, and maybe this isn't the place for a totally political discussion, but so far as the chemtrails believers and conspiracy theory mindset, the whole thing does definitely demoralize these people, and many of them already come psychologically damaged, confused, and seem hopeless. They might become focused by this thing, but it is anirratonal focus that leads downhill not up. That sort of person has always been the prime target for cults, those who are in a weakened state in some way, and easily manipulated. The media both traditional film and now social is now being used to capture them very effectively.

Fred, you need to read "Among The Truthers" to get a fuller understanding of how this culture works, even though the author is left wing he does a good job of recounting what has happened.
Jay, you make people who believe in a conspiracy sound like a hopeless human wreck . . . that is demeaning and false . . . and you need to apologize . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
You not knowing what a particular aircraft is doing does not make it a "mystery aircraft" - it just shows that you had limited knowledge at the time.

Modular equipment still requires somewhere to fit, and somewhere to "spray from".

you are just making ideas up to counter every "real world" difficulty, without regard to anything other than preserving your own pet theory. your continued behaviour in this manner confirms to me that you have no actual interest in reality, and your type of speculative fiction is EXACTLY what chemmies do all the time - eg this thread on ATS where one chemmie invents a conspiracy whereby the DOD apparently datamine anyone using the Andriod Flightradar24 App, on hte basis that there are supercomputers and Sweden wants to get hold of Assange in order to extradite him to the USA! He starts by asking "does this happen?" - and then rapidly degenerates into "of course it does and if you don't believe it you are a fool" - with support from fellow believers.
No . . .I know the military . . . There were many flights that the mission purpose was not known by anyone . . . they just had landing and refueling privileges . . .
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I’m talking here about Idealogical Subversion, Psychological Warfare or PsyOps as its known for short.
...
Idealogical Subversion is the psychological process that is used to destroy an enemy.
But who is the enemy in this scenario? Are we really talking Communism vs Capitalism? Or were you saying that because the USSR covertly fostered these attitudes during the cold war (although lots of people legitimately had these values born of their own conscience) the subjects of that subversion continue it as a habitual anti-authoritarianism now that the original intent has long gone, fostering dissent for no particular group's gain?
Except of course, their own share of the market.


...

What has happened to the American Dream? Indeed what has happened to America? The same can also be said of the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and much of the English speaking world.

The 'dream' was only valid when there was a new world and frontier to plunder, with the (theoretical) availability of equal opportunity to anyone to capitalise on with luck and hard work. Barring colonisation of other planets, that particular vision will never happen again.

The work of Alex Jones, Rense, Michael Murphy, etc could be said to be the continuation of that opportunism carried over to the resource of human gullibility. That is where the 'dream' (of personal success) now lies, and with decades-worth of marketing research and advertising psychology readily available it is relatively easy to create a market for something if it taps into the basic drives the research of selling stuff to people has identified.


I think what has happened (to the 'dream' with its connotations of lost abilities and ingenuity) is we've been conditioned to be consumers, because our consumption is relatively rewarding. Being comfortable may have led to some stagnation in certain areas, and there is certainly no real incentive for marketers to have a more discerning and critical consumer base, and I'm sure there will be various competing collusions and conspiracies (psyops) around this idea. But it's just the economic rationalisation of our society that tends to degrade us over time, I don't see an operation to undermine western society behind it (though I'd be interested in what the case was for one).
 

solrey

Senior Member.
I use to watch 747s do touch and goes for hours at an obscure North Texas Military Airfield . .
When I was at a base in Spain in '88 I watched F-16's do touch and goes, with full afterburners on the take off culminating in a crazy "turn and burn", all day for a couple of days in a row each week for the two weeks I was there. Earlier this year on vacation I watched helicopters do touch and goes at a training field just south of Imperial Beach, CA while walking for a couple of hours through the Tijuana Estuary to the beach and back. On the same trip while hiking in the foothills around Tucson, Az I saw A-10's flying touch and go patterns in the distance. And your point about routine training is...?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
When I was at a base in Spain in '88 I watched F-16's do touch and goes, with full afterburners on the take off culminating in a crazy "turn and burn", all day for a couple of days in a row each week for the two weeks I was there. Earlier this year on vacation I watched helicopters do touch and goes at a training field just south of Imperial Beach, CA while walking for a couple of hours through the Tijuana Estuary to the beach and back. On the same trip while hiking in the foothills around Tucson, Az I saw A-10's flying touch and go patterns in the distance. And your point about routine training is...?
Simple, the 747s were not military aircraft . . . they were commercial aircraft and no one felt there was a conspiracy or something so unusual with the behavior . . . why would a few heavy lift aircraft taking off and landing at obscure airfields be so difficult to accomplish . . . once a precedence has been set in the past such behavior would be accepted as normal . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Hidden in plain sight . . . some charter or transport company contracted by military, government, or front Corporation in US, Canada, Russia, Northern Europe . . . flies from one location to another with pretense of moving secure or sensitive cargo . . . I saw mystery aircraft on military airfields frequently . . . I use to watch 747s do touch and goes for hours at an obscure North Texas Military Airfield . . .


Simple, the 747s were not military aircraft . . . they were commercial aircraft and no one felt there was a conspiracy or something so unusual with the behavior . . . why would a few heavy lift aircraft taking off and landing at obscure airfields be so difficult to accomplish . . . once a precedence has been set in the past such behavior would be accepted as normal . . .
Right to clear up your 'mystery' of 747's doing circuits at an air force base, that's because it's usually not possible to do them at civil airports because of noise complaints, landing & movement fee's, and traffic flow. It's cheaper and easier to just do them at a military airport and it's not the slightest bit suspicious and perfectly normal and even common.

As for 'hidden in plain sight', that's just ridiculous and doesn't answer the question at all - How do so many airliners leave contrails (mistaken by the ignorant as 'chemtrails') when they clearly do not have any special equipment on board?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Right to clear up your 'mystery' of 747's doing circuits at an air force base, that's because it's usually not possible to do them at civil airports because of noise complaints, landing & movement fee's, and traffic flow. It's cheaper and easier to just do them at a military airport and it's not the slightest bit suspicious and perfectly normal and even common.

As for 'hidden in plain sight', that's just ridiculous and doesn't answer the question at all - How do so many airliners leave contrails (mistaken by the ignorant as 'chemtrails') when they clearly do not have any special equipment on board?
Because contrails are contrails . . . no aircraft needs special equipment to leave contrails . . . and only a tiny fraction of heavy lift aircraft need injection equipment as has been proposed somewhere between 9 and possibly 30 . . . sulfur injection would most likely not be visible especially injected in the stratosphere . . .

PS . . . thanks for demonstrating how commercial aircraft can be seen in significant numbers at military facilities without seeming unusual or strange . . .
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
George, when I became a first officer on the 767, we took an empty aircraft to RAAF Amberley and flew circuits there for three hours. Amberley was the F-111 base at the time, and the home of Australia's strike squadrons. no-one batted an eye lid then because it was routine training at an airfield with a runway comfortably long enough to do touch and go approaches, but without the constant traffic of a civilian airport. All arranged by the airline beforehand.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Jay, you make people who believe in a conspiracy sound like a hopeless human wreck . . . that is demeaning and false . . . and you need to apologize . . .
No. I know some of these people personally who have gotten out of it. They have told me their stories. I'm sure Mick has gotten some of the same sorts of comunications. You can read the chat from yesterday's Sylvain Henry meeting and see how messed up some of them are.. Hopeless human wrecks make threats to shoot, kill, blind and maim pilots, to shoot down jets whose identity they have no idea about and to kill individual scientists who are public persons. Those are not normal balanced people. You aren't trying to claim that these (you say) "uncalled for" threats are coming from normal undamaged moral people? These aren't people who are rational, they are irrationally living under a delusion brought about by the promotion of a hoax.

I have been contacted by the relatives of some of these, asking for my help. They know a family member who is a leader, that person is so hopeless they want the whole world to end as quickly as possible. That is my sense of reality, direct and personal, I spoke to the person for 2 hours.

Maybe you need to get a better perspective. You may honestly feel you are somewhere above the fray and just speculating, but there is no doubt in my mind that the 1,000's of posts you have made have played some part in the maintainance of this hoax, whether intended or not, and I see very little evidence of your understanding the toll this has taken or where it will most likely lead. Hell, you won't even express yourself in full sentences, just to keep it vague.

just an intellectual exercise.... uncalled for.....I relate to the underdog....you need to apologize...
So who do I apologize to? The leaders of a hoax? The families of the victims? You need to consider who you will eventually be apologizing to, George. What would you say if some Ted Kazynski type kills a scientist? Have you apologized to David Keith's office staff for the phone threats they have already received? Have you written to even one of the leaders like Murphy who still features the threats on his Facebook page at this very moment? Doing so would be greatly appreciated. Let me know what he says.

Ethically, we are all our brother's keeper. I wouldn't let a drunk get into a car and drive away down the freeway. I will not stand by and simply watch others be taken off a cliff by a hoax as you seem perfectly content to do. I will do anything in my power to counter what is going on, and won't be stopped by you or anyone else.

No apologies. Period.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
That doesn't make any sense to me. The education system might not be as good as it once was (and I'm not sure I'd even agree with that), but it's still producing many intellectuals. Were politicians really more intelligent 40 years ago? I'd grant you Bush, but Were Reagan and Carter more "intellectual" than Clinton and Obama?
Suspicious and paranoid people have always existed in all societies. Over 40 years ago we had just the same kind of people harping on about vaccines and fluoridation conspiracies. There's no need to invent some secret infiltration by the KGB in order to explain it.
What is happening to the American Dream? Nothing new. We just have the internet now.
I entirely agree.

I bounced around Britain and Germany every eighteen months as a "forces brat" and in the process went to fourteen schools.
These schools were each very different in character and make-up from each other, but all delivered a controlled curriculum of information and education, and provided mobility for any pupil's chosen change in direction. I was handed on from state school to state school just as patients are handed on to new doctors.
Through that experience it soon became apparent to me that any one generation of children is no more or less able than the next.

The difference is cultural. NOW is very different from the sixties. There has been so much bad "information" which is now so freely available/creatable. Learning anything decent at all requires some training in debunking before one can spot the real 3%...

There is no such thing as a "British Dream". We either KNOW we are the best, or have lost all hope. We either OWN property, or we ARE property.

Ethically, we are all our brother's keeper. I wouldn't let a drunk get into a car and drive away down the freeway. I will not stand by and simply watch others be taken off a cliff by a hoax as you seem perfectly content to do. I will do anything in my power to counter what is going on, and won't be stopped by you or anyone else. No apologies. Period.
I just wish to express that my thanks seemed inadequate for this post. You express yourself so clearly and uncompromisingly that I am frequently struck dumb... :)

George is a troll. He's very polite about it.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
George, when I became a first officer on the 767, we took an empty aircraft to RAAF Amberley and flew circuits there for three hours. Amberley was the F-111 base at the time, and the home of Australia's strike squadrons. no-one batted an eye lid then because it was routine training at an airfield with a runway comfortably long enough to do touch and go approaches, but without the constant traffic of a civilian airport. All arranged by the airline beforehand.
Obviously a common practice throughout the world . . . few would bat an eye at large heavy lift aircraft in those regions where this is common practice . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
No. I know some of these people personally who have gotten out of it. They have told me their stories. I'm sure Mick has gotten some of the same sorts of comunications. You can read the chat from yesterday's Sylvain Henry meeting and see how messed up some of them are.. Hopeless human wrecks make threats to shoot, kill, blind and maim pilots, to shoot down jets whose identity they have no idea about and to kill individual scientists who are public persons. Those are not normal balanced people. You aren't trying to claim that these (you say) "uncalled for" threats are coming from normal undamaged moral people? These aren't people who are rational, they are irrationally living under a delusion brought about by the promotion of a hoax.

I have been contacted by the relatives of some of these, asking for my help. They know a family member who is a leader, that person is so hopeless they want the whole world to end as quickly as possible. That is my sense of reality, direct and personal, I spoke to the person for 2 hours.

Maybe you need to get a better perspective. You may honestly feel you are somewhere above the fray and just speculating, but there is no doubt in my mind that the 1,000's of posts you have made have played some part in the maintainance of this hoax, whether intended or not, and I see very little evidence of your understanding the toll this has taken or where it will most likely lead. Hell, you won't even express yourself in full sentences, just to keep it vague.



So who do I apologize to? The leaders of a hoax? The families of the victims? You need to consider who you will eventually be apologizing to, George. What would you say if some Ted Kazynski type kills a scientist? Have you apologized to David Keith's office staff for the phone threats they have already received? Have you written to even one of the leaders like Murphy who still features the threats on his Facebook page at this very moment? Doing so would be greatly appreciated. Let me know what he says.

Ethically, we are all our brother's keeper. I wouldn't let a drunk get into a car and drive away down the freeway. I will not stand by and simply watch others be taken off a cliff by a hoax as you seem perfectly content to do. I will do anything in my power to counter what is going on, and won't be stopped by you or anyone else.

No apologies. Period.
It is obvious I have not had your experiences . . . seems you have been involved with the extreme cases . . . if I had your experiences I might feel the same way; however, the vast majority of people who think the Chemtrail conspiracy is possible are not hopeless and emotionally dependent people . . . and if they are . . . chemtrails are not the only conspiracy they are obsessed with . . . seems to talk to people they need to feel you understand them . . . if they think you think they are a nut case do you really think they are going to listen???
 

MikeC

Closed Account
No . . .I know the military . . . There were many flights that the mission purpose was not known by anyone . . . they just had landing and refueling privileges . . .
there are no flights where the purpose is not known by anyone.

Not ever.

Your insistance that somehow you should know the purpose of any flight is a fantasy - stop being silly.
 

Nessa Celery

New Member
It is obvious I have not had your experiences . . . seems you have been involved with the extreme cases . . . if I had your experiences I might feel the same way; however, the vast majority of people who think the Chemtrail conspiracy is possible are not hopeless and emotionally dependent people . . . and if they are . . . chemtrails are not the only conspiracy they are obsessed with . . . seems to talk to people they need to feel you understand them . . . if they think you think they are a nut case do you really think they are going to listen???
I'm wondering if you know many chemtrail people in real life *outside of the conspiracy community*. If not, you may not be seeing this in the same way as some of us. I don't mean to disrespect you by saying this. It's just... having someone who is so focused on the issue it consumes them, when conversation with that person about anything not conspiracy-related has become all but impossible.... it's very hard, and for some I should think it's heartbreaking. Indeed in many cases chemtrails are not the only conspiracy they are obsessed with. But that there are people making money and grasping for attention out of that suffering, it's at best frustrating.

There's an insidious thing about the chemtrail theory, a thing that in my opinion makes it so much worse than for example "faked moon landings" or the obsession with the idea of 9/11 being an inside job. Now let me clear - I don't mean to be insensitive or in any way disrespectful to people who suffered and still suffer because of the tragic events which happened on that day. The reason the chemtrail theory is potentially more damaging, is that people believe they and their loved ones are being poisoned, violated, even having their DNA tampered with. Every single day. Not just in one country, this is affecting people all over the world. How hopeless, how tragic their situation must seem. How terrifying it must be to see your relatives and friends being poisoned yet they won't listen! How isolating. How utterly exhausting.

And yet there is Michael J Murphy, Sophia Smallstorm etc, etc, oh relief - people who "know the truth"! Like cult leaders they embrace their flock. (Reminds me of the captor whose captives succumb to Stockholm Syndrome.) Families, friends, colleagues, neighbours - they won't listen, but there's a whole community online. It's comforting. It's reassuring when one begins to doubt "the truth", but there will always be someone there, someone who's getting their "facts" from "looking up", and from What in the World are They Spraying?

"Us" against "Them" - it's a comforting position to be in when you believe you are being slowly killed by "Them".

Recently someone I used to consider a friend was talking about not seeing their kids grow up. Because of "chemtrails". I don't know whether to pity that person more than their children...
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Because contrails are contrails . . . no aircraft needs special equipment to leave contrails . . . and only a tiny fraction of heavy lift aircraft need injection equipment as has been proposed somewhere between 9 and possibly 30 . . . sulfur injection would most likely not be visible especially injected in the stratosphere . . ..
So a tiny number of aircraft injecting a tiny amount of a natural element into the atmosphere is going to have global-changing effects?
How about no.


And because you know that airliners aren't producing these mythical 'chemtrails' I assume you will also help us correct the errant thinking of those that do believe that airliners are making 'chemtrails' ?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
there are no flights where the purpose is not known by anyone.

Not ever.

Your insistance that somehow you should know the purpose of any flight is a fantasy - stop being silly.
There are many missions where the servicing airfield does not know what the mission is of the aircraft on their runway . . . someone somewhere does . . . that is not an argument . . .
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
There are many missions where the servicing airfield does not know what the mission is of the aircraft on their runway . . . someone somewhere does . . . that is not an argument . . .
So you know how the flight information is presented to each controller along the aircraft's route?
Please tell us how this is done.
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
It is obvious I have not had your experiences . . . seems you have been involved with the extreme cases . . . if I had your experiences I might feel the same way; however, the vast majority of people who think the Chemtrail conspiracy is possible are not hopeless and emotionally dependent people . . . and if they are . . . chemtrails are not the only conspiracy they are obsessed with . . . seems to talk to people they need to feel you understand them . . . if they think you think they are a nut case do you really think they are going to listen???
Are you familiar with the concept of collusion in psychiatry George?
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mick West GeoengineeringWatch Chemtrail Posters fly-posted in Sydney Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Mick West Do Polls and Google Trends show Chemtrail Belief Declining? Contrails and Chemtrails 11
Mick West TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 51
Mick West YouTube adds Encyclopedia Britannica article on Contrails to "Chemtrail" Videos Contrails and Chemtrails 18
StratMatt777 How to effectively talk to chemtrail folk Practical Debunking 9
Leifer Claim: magnetic dust on cars proves chemtrail fallout Contrails and Chemtrails 11
cmnit Malpensa technician whistleblower on chemtrail activities in airport Contrails and Chemtrails 10
Mick West A Conversation with "Chemtrail" activist Patrick Roddie Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Trailblazer Explained: Vatican "chemtrail spraying" coin [part of set depicting Pope's travels] Contrails and Chemtrails 4
deirdre J.Marvin Herndon tries to pass off Bird Poop as evidence of "chemtrail" spraying Contrails and Chemtrails 24
TEEJ Claim of "UFO" interacting with "Chemtrail", Paris, France, 28th September 2016 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 2
JRBids "Chemtrail off your left wing": Air Traffic Controller Contrails and Chemtrails 18
MikeG Debunked: Air Force Verifies Chemtrails are Real Contrails and Chemtrails 6
Mick West Why "Chemtrail" Tests on the Ground Find Metals That Don't Occur Naturally Contrails and Chemtrails 14
MikeC New Zealand Ministry of Environment reply to "chemtrail" query Contrails and Chemtrails 6
MikeG Debunked: Geoengineering Killing Great Barrier Reef Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Tapir-mâché Curious-- how low can persistent contrails form? Contrails and Chemtrails 25
Trailblazer Chemtrail response from Swiss Federal Office of the Environment Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West Persistent Trails Survey Shows Chemtrail Believers Only Recently Noticed Persistent Trails Contrails and Chemtrails 32
MikeC Aircraft weight and balance in the real world Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Trailblazer Another photoshopped chemtrail poster: Michael J Murphy Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Jay Reynolds Chemtrail Believers' predictions of "years left" before disaster Contrails and Chemtrails 6
A Augie Snyder's contrail/chemtrail questions Contrails and Chemtrails 18
Mick West Debunked: Rise In Respiratory Mortality from 4th to 3rd Cause of Death. "Chemtrail Flu" General Discussion 13
Mick West How Rogue Scientist J. Marvin Herndon Disproved the Last Resort of the Chemtrail Theory Contrails and Chemtrails 31
Trailblazer Photoshopped "chemtrail" images on Geoengineeringwatch.org Contrails and Chemtrails 76
JFDee New fuel dump "chemtrail" video [Munich, Thai Airways Flight 925] Contrails and Chemtrails 33
Critical Thinker Why we debunk and who do we reach. Practical Debunking 2
Trailblazer Identified: Chemtrails Project UK's "chemtrail plane" (Air France A340) Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Mick West Debunked: Kylie Jenner's Chemtrail Meme Tweet Contrails and Chemtrails 54
S Contrail shadow Contrails and Chemtrails 15
Trailblazer Video of helicopter leaving "chemtrail"? Contrails and Chemtrails 8
TEEJ Chemtrail Fleet - Peter A. Kirby Contrails and Chemtrails 10
cmnit Chemtrailists articles on Las Vegas Tribune (in 2005) Contrails and Chemtrails 5
Critical Thinker San Diego Chemtrail group to 'educate' & Protest Scientists/Doctors Contrails and Chemtrails 3
TWCobra Madisonstar Moon posts 59 year old photo of B47's contrailing. Contrails and Chemtrails 0
S Black exhaust, contrail, or chemtrail? Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
Mick West The Best Book for Explaining Contrails to Chemtrail Believers Contrails and Chemtrails 39
Husband of chemmy Help me! Wife is Chemtrailing... Contrails and Chemtrails 69
Jacob Aman J. Marvin Herndon's chemtrail letter to San Diego City Council Contrails and Chemtrails 39
A Dr. Kirkby 2009 CERN presentation: "Clouds Seeded by Jets" [Misunderstanding by Chemtrail Theorists] Contrails and Chemtrails 28
TWCobra Chemtrail evidence that would stand up in court Contrails and Chemtrails 20
Whitebeard Claim - 'Orbs Killing Chemtrails' Contrails and Chemtrails 29
Trailblazer Debunked: "The Snake" non-commercial chemtrail plane (China Eastern A330) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 33
Chemtrail_Follower Chemtrail Follower Escaping The Rabbit Hole 70
Peter How 'alive' is the topic of chemtrails nowadays? Contrails and Chemtrails 32
MikeC Homeopathic chemtrail detox formula Health and Quackery 25
TWCobra Very good question asked by Madison Star Moon Contrails and Chemtrails 27
Gundersen Debunked: Australian Rainwater "Chemtrail" test Contrails and Chemtrails 11
M Need help debunking a picture [Four Jets in Formation, Leaving Contrails] Contrails and Chemtrails 12
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top