Captain Rudd Flight - Starlink UAP

jarlrmai

jarlrmai

Senior Member.
Here's a possibly fun one

I saw it in this Reddit thread:


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1eqbrrz/pilots_flying_from_saudi_arabia_to_nigeria_in_a/


It looks like Starlink but there's no date/time/flight number, however this is a 4k YouTube cockpit and b roll video with lots of possible clues that means it might possible (and fun) to track it down...


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86L3UYZAeys

Some clues

Before 4th Aug (video date on YT)
747-400
Flight from Jeddah

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Airline probably (could be B roll from earlier, but pilot is wearing MaxAir pin in actual flight video):
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Possibly this named 747

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UFO encountered 30 minutes after reaching cruising and eating breakfast.

Plane at 34000 cruising, is that heading on the left?

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flarkey said:
The adsb track is a little fragmented, both from FlightRadar24.com and FlightWare,com - but there's enough to say that multiple starlink flares would have been visible off the right side of the aircraft...
Click to expand...
Do we agree that the lights show no evidence of the movement he ascribes to them - dancing etc.? Starlink certainly seems the most likely explanation.
 
Aircraft registration is visible on the crew manifest stuck to the pilots yoke.

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Time code: youtu.be/86L3UYZAeys

Edit: and and 22m53s....

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FatPhil said:
Do we agree that the lights show no evidence of the movement he ascribes to them - dancing etc.? Starlink certainly seems the most likely explanation.
Click to expand...

When described as "dancing" and "running in circles" and "playing with us", and in reality nothing realy special happens (see video), it is not surprising I don't take written witness accounts seriously.

Similarly you often (sorry to generalise, I have no statistics to share here) read about an account of the thing being "above them" and "within reach", where in fact it must have been very far away. Something to do with individual perception of stuff, where one is convinced it is very close, where the other thinks it's orbiting the sun..
 
Why at the end of that video being discussed, does he add what seems to be the triangle bokeh pic near the end?
Is he talking about other UFO cases at the end?
 
flarkey said:
@jarlrmai Sticker on the dash confirms flight number as NGL2008 Edit - I think that is actualy NGL2006 (codeshare for VM2006)
Click to expand...
It's definitely NGL2006, you can hear the first officer identify their flight as 'November Golf Lima Two Zero Zero Six' several times.

This is from 22:53,

1.jpg


So the screens play havoc with the camera and everything shows up two or three times which doesn't help, but it seems they are flying towards waypoint DITAR, distance 151 nm, bearing 283°. ETA appears to be 2259.0Z, or maybe 2259.8Z? In any case, shortly before 2300Z. They are at FL340, M.856 or 300 kts IAS, that's a true airspeed of 495 or so kts. Looks like the wind is from 236° at 41 kts, that would result in a headwind component of a bit less than 30 kts given their heading. So a ground speed of 465-ish kts. At that rate they need about 20 minutes to get to DITAR.

So in short, at that point in the video it's about 2240 UTC and they are located somewhere near 26°13'N 27°40'E.

Seems like this would be the next part of their route, you can see a similar 90-degree bend on their nav display.
2.png

https://skyvector.com/?ll=25.862189...13&chart=304&zoom=2&fpl=DITAR103151 DITAR KFR
 
Hmm, that's a bit weird. I'd trust FR24 to display the correct time in UTC. I wonder if it's local time then for some reason? Either local as in their position at that moment or local as in the timezone of the departure airport. Both Jeddah and Egypt are UTC+3 in the summer, so that would check out - the time would then be around 1940Z instead of 2240Z.

It's not like it might have been later into their flight, either. They are without a doubt over central Egypt, you can see the next legs in the FMS only a few moments later, it goes DITAR-KFR-TONBA-ILDOR-DEMOX.

3.jpg

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I think you're right about the time zone. UTC+3 fits, maybe that is so they are on Mecca time?

The FR24 time jumps from 19:16hrs to 20:03hrs as the aircraft goes over the ADSB data gap.

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1723567751938.png
 
So looking at VM2006 in Sitrec at approx 1945UTC we can see that they are very close to the Starlink band, and some flares would start to become visible off their Starboard side at around this time. @Mick West has always said that the Starlink/Earth model could be refined a little to make the conditions for sighing more accurate. These seems to be the case in this sighting.

https://www.metabunk.org/u/XGgZqm.html

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Could it actually be a flight from another date? I think we are sort of assuming it's the most recent redeye for this aircraft between these 2 airports. Which makes sense but it might be a different flight?
 
flarkey said:
So looking at VM2006 in Sitrec at approx 1945UTC we can see that they are very close to the Starlink band, and some flares would start to become visible off their Starboard side at around this time. @Mick West has always said that the Starlink/Earth model could be refined a little to make the conditions for sighing more accurate. These seems to be the case in this sighting.
Click to expand...
The band is a bit ad-hoc, but the individual flares should be more accurate.
 
jarlrmai said:
Could it actually be a flight from another date? I think we are sort of assuming it's the most recent redeye for this aircraft between these 2 airports. Which makes sense but it might be a different flight?
Click to expand...
I thought so too at first but there's many small details that fit the June 24 flight. For example you can hear this other flight read back their clearance as our plane is taxiing (12:45 in the video). That's THY5299, and if this list is anything to go by then it's the only date that makes any sense (they would have taken off a half hour or so after getting their clearance, so NGL2006 at 21:14, the Turkish at 21:42 - these are local times again so as to confuse things further).

5.png

https://airportinfo.live/flight/tk5299

As you can see this not a regularly scheduled flight. I suspects it's an overflow service run during Hajj. I think the dates kind of fit.

Also when you check the METAR messages from that evening you'll find they match, too. The cockpit altimeter is set to 1002, the outside temperature sensor (in the centre display next to the engine status) reads 35 or 36 degrees.

METAR OEJN 241700Z 33013KT CAVOK 36/13 Q1002 NOSIG= - Jun 24, 8 pm local
METAR OEJN 241800Z 34011KT CAVOK 35/16 Q1003 NOSIG= - 9 pm
METAR OEJN 241900Z 35009KT CAVOK 34/16 Q1002 NOSIG= - 10 pm

So I'm fairly certain we have the right date and flight. It's just that their clock seems to be off by three hours.

@flarkey I thought it might be a Mecca time thing! But then I thought it might be too far-fetched. Surely they aren't going to set the plane's clocks to Mecca time only because they shuttle pilgrims? Or would they?
 
jarlrmai said:
Could it be a prayer time thing?
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Prayer times should be based on local time -- or more accurately by local Sun positions.

External Quote:

Salat times are prayer times when Muslims perform salat. The term is primarily used for the five daily prayers including the Friday prayer, which takes the place of the Dhuhr prayer and must be performed in a group of aibadat. Muslims believe the salah times were revealed by Allah to Muhammad (SAW).

Prayer times are standard for Muslims in the world, especially the fard prayer times. They depend on the condition of the Sun and geography. There are varying opinions regarding the exact salah times, the schools of Islamic thought differing in minor details. All schools of thought agree that any given prayer cannot be performed before its stipulated time.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_times

My experience on flights in and out of countries with Muslim majorities, including Saudi Arabia into Madinah, has included finding the direction to the city (qibla) on the seat back entertainment and information screen on the back of the seats. Time can be retrieved by destination, point of embarkation, or local time zone. I did not note any indication of local solar times or a call to prayer on the plane, though there might have been some way to set that "alarm" if I had needed it and looked for it.

But there does not seem to be any reason for the plane control systems to take that into account that I can think of.

This might be of interest to some folks:
External Quote:

Question:
How does one pray on an airplane? How do I find the Qibla (prayer direction), and can I pray whilst sitting down?

Answer:
It is a very spiritual experience to pray in the air and of course it is an obligation too. So make sure you don't miss it! You can find out the local time either by looking outside or by asking the cabin crew. Also, usually you can find Mecca in Saudi Arabia on your screen, otherwise, simply ask the cabin crew to help you find the direction of Saudi Arabia and Mecca in particular.

Then, if you are allowed to offer your prayer in a standing position, you can find a place where you can stand for prayer. Otherwise, just offer your prayer whilst seated in your chair, positioning your face towards the Qibla. Remember to take off your shoes. For Ruku' you can just bend a bit forward and keep your hands on your knees, and for Sojood you may put your stone on your food tray. Remember to touch the floor with your big toes. If the Qibla is in your opposite direction, then sit in front of your chair – facing your chair – to face the Qibla and put your stone on your chair for Sojood.
Source: http://www.askthesheikh.com/how-to-offer-salat-prayers-on-airplane/
 
Easy Muffin said:
So I'm fairly certain we have the right date and flight. It's just that their clock seems to be off by three hours.

@flarkey I thought it might be a Mecca time thing! But then I thought it might be too far-fetched. Surely they aren't going to set the plane's clocks to Mecca time only because they shuttle pilgrims? Or would they?
Click to expand...
we do have one other indicator of time in the video... the pilot's watch... which seems to show 0205hrs for the meal, which was 30mins before the UFOs showed up, so say 0240h. Assuming that is Jeddah time it would make it closer to 2240hrs UTC which is the time we see on the flight data display.

1723648468104.png



Also weird is the claim that this was a flight from Jeddah to Abuja , but VM2006 was Jeddah to Kano.

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VM2008 is Jeddah - Abuja

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I'm starting to think - have they edited video from two different flights to create this one?

Edit - note how the co-pilot has removed his rank insignia between eating the meal and filming the UFOs, almost like it is a different shirt? maybe a different day?

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He's also wearing a cap and headset before the UFO cut at 21 mins and does not appear to have it on during the UFO vid.

Of course he could just have changed shirts and removed his cap after dinner but the time differences indicate something does not add up.
 
Interesting observation. If the latter part of the video is from the NGL2008 flight on the 26th then it'd fit the time we see in the FMS. They followed a similar route to NGL2006 but took off about three hours later, so that would explain the difference.

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Is the writing on the sticker note the same? I'd like to say it is not but it's difficult to tell.
 
Easy Muffin said:
Interesting observation. If the latter part of the video is from the NGL2008 flight on the 26th then it'd fit the time we see in the FMS. They followed a similar route to NGL2006 but took off about three hours later, so that would explain the difference.

View attachment 70830

Is the writing on the sticker note the same? I'd like to say it is not but it's difficult to tell.
Click to expand...
The sticker looks different to me.
 
Using @Easy Muffin 's Skyvector map and cross referencing it with the FlightRadar24 flight paths I have been able to reconstruct the route via VORs and nav points back to Jeddah.

VM2006 & VM2008 available ADSB data on FlightRadar24 & FlightAware.
1723675983753.png


https://skyvector.com/?ll=25.496834878617104,32.064697268507345&chart=304&zoom=8&fpl= OEJN GIBAL HELX HEKG DITAR HLKF TONBA ILDOR

1723674893768.png


During the meal segment the FMS shows a left turn approaching, which I think is at the LUXOR VOR.
1723674974533.png


This is at approx 1911UTC for VM2006 and approx 2215UTC for VM2008 (according to the FlightRadar24 data). A difference of approx 3hrs.

1723679782569.png
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The UFO section then shows the FMS approaching DITAR with the ETA of 2259UTC. This section is missing from the FlightRadar24 ADSB data, but with a distance to go of around 480nm and a groundspeed of approx 510kts the time difference of 55mins is about right. This confirms that the UFO section of the video must be from VM2008 becasue of the time seen on the FMS during that section.

1723675040728.png



But... if we are seeing videos from one flight - that doesnt fit with the pilots watch. It would suggest that it was set to UTC+4, not UTC+3 as previously assumed. That makes no sense at all.......

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unless...... The first section of video (up to the meal) is actually of VM2006, which took off 3hrs (and one day) before VM2008. So the time of the meal is actually 1905UTC and the pilots watch is set to UTC+7.

But why would his watch be set to UTC+7...?

Because the pilot Captain Rudi van Pangemanan is from Jakarta. He lives in Indonesia and his watch is set to his home time. I Googled his name and found out that he has a swimming pool business based on Depok City, Indonesia.
https://www.instagram.com/noahfuntasticpools?igsh=MXI0ejllZzB0OXM3Ng==
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In his YouTube Profile
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He even made a YouTube video about his side job...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=SwX9rLAmOxs&ab_channel=CaptainRuudVanPangemanan

Depok City is in the UTC+7 timezone.

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Conclusion: It is definitely 2 flights/videos edited to look like one , up to the meal section is VM2006, and the ufo section is VM2008.
 

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I have managed to reconstruct the ADSB track of flight VM2008 by using the ADSB data for VM2006 and offsetting the Date & Time to be representative of VM2008. KML is attached. This now gives an accurate track that we can use in sitrec to recreate the views seen in the UFO video from VM2008.

Permalink: https://www.metabunk.org/u/WtDDTn.html

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That's some nice detective work there, and it puts the video time and location right back in the starlink band in Sitrec.

taurusclover21 said:
Is this video now confirmed to be a hoax?
Click to expand...
Well, the video is not 100% truthful but I don't think there's any malicious intent behind it. I suppose he originally aimed to turn the (uneventful as far as UFOs are concerned) footage he shot on the 24th into a video for his channel, and when he flew again on the 26th he spotted these lights on the return leg, thought this should be part of the video too and appended it. Not knowing that there are actually anoraks out there that will go through these things with a fine comb...!
 
The misrepresentation of two flights as one is certainly relevant to the whole "pilots are reliable and infallible observers" narrative of Ufology it shows some are not above a little showmanship when presenting strange things they encounter.
 
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