Canadian Terror Plot

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I added a link to the story,but there are lots now.

Who said NYC? I don't see any mention so far.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
I added a link to the story,but there are lots now.

Who said NYC? I don't see any mention so far.

UPDATE: Plot reported to be to blow up a Toronto to NYC commuter train while on a bridge leaving Canada. This is apparently the NYC connection. No reported connection to Boston.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
UPDATE: Plot reported to be to blow up a Toronto to NYC computer train while on a bridge leaving Canada. This is apparently the NYC connection. No reported connection to Boston.

A NYC commuter train leaving Canada, sound pretty strange.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
A NYC commuter train leaving Canada, sound pretty strange.

Not when you consider the projected, multiple consequences and disruption.......

Supposedly two arrests.

Listening to CBC RCMP news conference now ......
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Not when you consider the projected, multiple consequences and disruption.......

Supposedly two arrests.

Listening to CBC RCMP news conference now ......

Dang, that two-language thing is a little annoying. Everything takes twice as long. They say it English, then in English translated from French.

It's going to be interesting to see if this is like the FBI string operations that account for most of the arrests in the US. Alex Jones, et al, frame that type of operation as essentially the government faking terrorism to keep people in a state of fear.
 

Drew

Active Member
A NYC commuter train leaving Canada, sound pretty strange.

Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's probably the "Maple Leaf" which is jointly operated by Amtrak and Via Rail between NYC and Toronto. So no. Not "commuter rail" at all.

Edited To Add:
Despite what the Reuters story said, it seems like there is no specific mention by the RCMP that New York was a destination —only that Via Rail trains in the Toronto area were targeted. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...supported-plot-to-bomb-train/article11465138/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/news-nouvelles/2013/04-22-ns-sn-eng.htm

RCMP Arrests Two Individuals for Terrorism-related Charges

Ottawa, April 22, 2013– Today, the RCMP arrested two individuals and charged them with conspiring to carry out a terrorist attack against a VIA passenger train. The accused have been charged under sections 248, 235 (1), 83.2, 83.18, 83.21 of the Criminal Code of Canada. As a result of extensive collaborative efforts, the RCMP was able to disrupt the threat early. While the RCMP believed that these individuals had the capacity and intent to carry out these criminal acts, there was no imminent threat to the general public, rail employees, train passengers or infrastructure.

The two accused, Chiheb ESSEGHAIER and Raed JASER, who live in the Montreal and Toronto area were conspiring to carry out a terrorist attack against a VIA passenger train. Charges include conspiring to carry out an attack against, and conspiring to murder persons unknown for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association with a terrorist group.

The RCMP investigation named Project SMOOTH, was coordinated by RCMP-led Integrated National Security Enforcement Teams (INSETs) in Montreal and Toronto with the close collaboration of domestic partners and the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI). The RCMP would like to thank its INSET partners including the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, Canada Border Services Agency, Toronto Police Service, York Regional Police, Peel Regional Police, Ontario Provincial Police, Durham Regional Police, the Sûreté du Québec and the service de police de la Ville de Montréal. The RCMP is also grateful for the valuable assistance of the FBI, Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Transport Canada, VIA Rail and CN Police. These exceptional collaborative efforts directly contributed to making the arrests.

“Each and every terrorist arrest the RCMP makes sends a message and illustrates our strong resolve to root out terrorist threats and keep Canadians and our allies safe,” stated Assistant Commissioner James Malizia, responsible for Federal Policing Operations. “A meaningful response to these threats begins on Canadian streets and in Canadians homes and the RCMP works with all their partners, including communities across Canada, in the fight against terrorism.”

The public is always encouraged to bring any suspicious activities to the RCMP’s attention through the National Security Information Network (1-800-420-5805) or by contacting the police in their community.
Content from External Source
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's probably the "Maple Leaf" which is jointly operated by Amtrak and Via Rail between NYC and Toronto. So no. Not "commuter rail" at all.

Edited To Add:
Despite what the Reuters story said, it seems like there is no specific mention by the RCMP that New York was a destination —only that Via Rail trains in the Toronto area were targeted. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...supported-plot-to-bomb-train/article11465138/

Initial report stated a commuter train between Toronto and NYC. Clarification since is a once daily passenger round tip.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
While the RCMP believed that these individuals had the capacity and intent to carry out these criminal acts, there was no imminent threat to the general public, rail employees, train passengers or infrastructure.
stuff like this is a bit of a red flag for me. The RCMP has a pretty well documented history of fabricating events to influence public opinion, and that's not a conspiracy theory, but a simple fact. These guys may well have been plotting an attack, but two youths mulling violence often stays two youths mulling violence, and doesn't go anywhere from there. Given there was no 'imminent threat', it could well be this was just two men talking tough until approached by the RCMP in the guise of a terrorist cell, encouraging them to escalate. That's not unheard of for the RCMP or the FBI, and as I understand it such a tactic isn't considered entrapment. That relatively small news (two dudes mulling an attack that didn't get past the planning stage getting arrested.) is being made into a bigger deal, and at this particular moment, is worrisome. Makes me wonder what Harper's going to start selling next week.
 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
It's going to be interesting to see if this is like the FBI string operations that account for most of the arrests in the US. Alex Jones, et al, frame that type of operation as essentially the government faking terrorism to keep people in a state of fear.

Jones might be right. My view is that the FBI and DHL use these string ops to help keep citizens convinced that the billions being spent are being well spent. One thing Jones does have fairly right is that it is 'fake terrorism'.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Jones might be right. My view is that the FBI and DHL use these string ops to help keep citizens convinced that the billions being spent are being well spent. One thing Jones does have fairly right is that it is 'fake terrorism'.

I would agree that a lot of the people caught by FBI stings do seem to not really have been likely to be fully fledged terrorists if the FBI had not contacted them. There's also a lot of trumpet blowing over what seem like very small fish. But I also think that such "honey-pot" sting operations are not entirely a bad idea. What if a real terrorist had made contact with the people before the FBI? Hard to say.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Figger'd there had to be a reason.

On Friday, the Conservative government announced that it was changing the House of Commons’ agenda, scheduling third and final reading of its “Combating Terrorism Act” (Bill S-7) to begin Monday and conclude this week. Bill S-7 gives the state vast new powers. These include: the right to hold terrorism suspects for 72 hours without charge, to convene “investigative hearings” at which those believed to have information about an imminent terrorist attack are stripped of their right to remain silent, and the power to place restrictions for up to a year on the movements and rights of persons deemed by the state to be terrorist suspects but against whom they have insufficient evidence to lay charges.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
I would agree that a lot of the people caught by FBI stings do seem to not really have been likely to be fully fledged terrorists if the FBI had not contacted them. There's also a lot of trumpet blowing over what seem like very small fish. But I also think that such "honey-pot" sting operations are not entirely a bad idea. What if a real terrorist had made contact with the people before the FBI? Hard to say.

I like that this thread appears to be more 'balanced'. I agree it is difficult when trying to balance rights over attempts to foil plots. Interesting that apparently the Boston bomber was interviewed extensively by FBI in 2011.

It would be easy to harangue them for not doing more to prevent events but I would take the view that 'if we all lose our freedoms', then 'terrorism has won'.

On that basis, I can only conclude difficult decisions had to be made and I am glad I did not have to make them and I am not prepared to criticise those who did, on the evidence available.
 
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