Can facilities like HAARP be used to manipulate the weather? (No)

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Well as Eastlund himself has said it's impossible, no.

(Tim The Toolman's post in another thread...)

HAARP CANNOT EFFECT THE WEATHER, and it does not represent Dr. Eastlunds patents either, as Dr. Eastlund says in his own words.

Including Quotes from Dr. Eastlund Himself stating that point

....
Also... The patent that he and others totally misunderstand and misrepresent and seemingly just make shit up about IS NOT THE HAARP DESIGN OR THE PLANS FOR HAARP.

Dr. Eastlund has confirmed this himself some years ago during some interviews that are freely available on the internet. I would suggest that if someone had claimed to have done so great of a job of “In Depth” research that they also god have found these as easily as I did.

The first is from an environmental Website and article. In it Dr. Eastlund says, “What's up there now is not, in my opinion big enough to be concerned about. It has to be used judiciously, but it’s not the kind of power level that can do the stuff that's in my patents yet.”

Link to article here: http://www.emagazine.com/includes/print-article/magazine-archive/8282/

The second quote is from a part of the interview while at his home grilling out it seems: From the article “"You can certainly do things that will change the ionosphere," he said from his Texas home. "Then it becomes the burden of proof to see if it has deleterious effects on the ground. And some people speculate that it does. But (the ionosphere) is a pretty low energy density environment."

The third very interesting quote from the article is, “Eastlund was less sure that rearranging the ionosphere could cause a calamity. "You can certainly do things that will change the ionosphere," he said from his Texas home. "Then it becomes the burden of proof to see if it has deleterious effects on the ground. And some people speculate that it does. But (the ionosphere) is a pretty low energy density environment."

The fourth interesting quote is, from the article, “”While grilling a steak at his backyard, Eastlund used a cooking analogy to illustrate HAARP's anticipated surface power level of one-watt per square centimeter. "You wouldn't be too worried about that, would you?" he asked. "You've got that in your microwave oven. You cook your turkey with it."”

Link to article here: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~wbova/fn/earth/yonder_2.htm

The only relationship of his purely theoretical and untested patent is that it does happen to include a far smaller and much lower powered Ionospheric Heater, which there are many of, and there was before Dr. Eastlund, and that he of course did not invent....

I could go on and on, but the above information Nullifies his and others claims completely, and each example that I have researched, on each offer of proof that he has given, as to why he is right, and all the other real scientist are wrong, are the same type of muddled mess. He is not correct, and peer reviewed science documents do not back his claims up. PERIOD.

If you would like to hear from Real HAARP scientist that actually worked up at HAARP and conducted studies... Here is a podcast with a couple of them as they were interviewed by Armed with Science
Worth a listen........

http://podcast.dma.mil/pentagonchan...e_audio/20100224_AWS56_audio_022410154908.mp3

I do plan on including most if not each and every single one both in a group document and of course as much as I can fit in the film. At some point when I get the time..

Thanks,

~Tim
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
“Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.”

Was the Secretary of Defense referring to the manipulation of the ionosphere by facilities like HAARP when he made this statement?
No he was not. That Cohen quote has been fully debunked.

William S. Cohen is explaining how an agency can be crippled as it spends time and resources dealing with rumors. He supports his point by calling on James Woolsey, a former director of the CIA, to recall his experiences of chasing down fake moles. Cohen then goes on to say that the same waste of time and resources can be made while chasing down other types of false scares.

He actually states it explicitly: "The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon ..."

He lists false scare scenarios mentioned by writer Alvin Toeffler: ethnic specific pathogens, genetically engineered insects, and eco- type terrorism via earthquakes and tornadoes. The last example being a favourite of conspiracy theorist who use it as evidence weather weaponization, when in fact it's an example of the opposite.
 
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Tim TheToolman Coles

Senior Member.
Nowhere in the Claims section of his patent does it list Weather Modification.
Claim:


Now from the the bottom summary and discussion of his theoretical and untested patent.

Dr. Eastlund however, does mention the "POSSIBILITY" in the bottom section of the patent which I will describe it's usage below, where he in fact states...

"Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device. Also as alluded to earlier, molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved."

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=4686605.PN.&OS=PN/4686605&RS=PN/4686605

However, after having filed for a patent myself, and researching other patents, as well as discussing it in depth with the attorneys as to why they ask me to list any and all remote possibilities that the patent might even be able to do, or might be able to possibly be realized, even if untrue right now, but that I could envision, is so that IF, ever any such alternate use or purposing of the original patent for these additional purposes, I would, as Dr. Eastlund would, also be able to claim ownership as well for that idea, and be able to claim monetary compensation for future uses that fall within whatever I can make up in that section. These claims can be and often are disputed, but at least it does set the date of first being mentioned, and sets on the record that the patent holder did mention it as a possibility.

This is common practice and is done every single day and included in patents. It does not make it a fact that these additional claims are real or have been tested, or may ever even work as stated. It is just a possibility that was listed by the inventor.


We can all agree on the above, or should.

Now lets break this down. We are using Dr. Eastlund's own words, and relying on that as evidence and fact in regards to whether HAARP can do these things correct?

For the sake of argument, lets just say, that it is not just a possibility, but instead is an absolute truth.. In this "Just for the sake of argument" logical analysis, if we take what Dr, Eastlund says, we take it all, as would be the logical progression of analysis.

So in summary of this logical analysis using an example for the sake of argument, Dr. Eastlund has said that HIS PATENT can change or alter the weather. Because he said so.

In interviews, conducted by a Biased Conspiracy Theorist even, Dr, Eastlunds own words were also recorded to have said very clearly...
and I quote......

What's up there now is not, in my opinion big enough to be concerned about. It has to be used judiciously, but it’s not the kind of power level that can do the stuff that's in my patents yet.

Source: http://www.emagazine.com/includes/print-article/magazine-archive/8282/

SO, HAARP is not designed using his patents specifications. Just a simple review and reading of Dr, Eastlunds patents, then comparing to the size, and power that sets now in Alaska at the HAARP facility, as well as reviewing all of the HAARP documentation. The two are so far apart that it is not even funny.

Eastlunds patents call for many thousands of times more power than what HAARP is capable of. In the patent it states in the Claims Section on line 1...

And on line 9......

HAARP specs however state that...
http://web.archive.org/web/20130121011744/http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/tech.html

Also from the HAARP specs....
http://web.archive.org/web/20130202021127/http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/ion4.html

*** Note. It is very easy to see that HAARP is not what is represented in Dr.Eastlunds patents, and as he has stated it IS NOT, in his own words.

HAARP is reported to be the best, most advanced, and most powerful such Ionospheric Heater in the World.

If Dr. Eastlunds patent should ever be utilized in it's entirety, and actually built, and used, then we would still have to test, and prove that his listed "possibility" of Weather Control would actually be possible. But we are not even anywhere near that now.


If we are going to take Dr. Eastlunds own words, then lets take all of them, and let us not compare Apples to Oranges.

Please.........

Think about this for a minute.

What HAARP and other Ionospheric Heaters do, essentially is try to replicate what the Sun does up there in this region of our atmosphere every single day(But at many thousands of factors less in power). They do it in a controlled fashion, and in a specific location so that they can, under these controlled conditions, properly study the effects and observe the science and physics of what is happening.

Remember that the Ionosphere is created and maintained in our upper atmosphere by the Suns energy and full band of electro-magnetic radiation.

If replicating what the Sun does, by many thousands of factors less than the Suns power, causes Severe Weather, then every single time our planet was hit with a CME, and associated Geomagnetic Storm that are millions of times stronger than anything any of these Ionospheric Heaters can cause, we would be experiencing massive, horrific Severe Storms, Hurricanes, and other unstoppable weather events the likes of which we have cannot even fathom.

If the Sun cannot do it, in the ionosphere, how in the hell can this pea shooter do it?

From FAQ:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130221092611/http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/faq.html

 
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