Can cars be hacked and used to assassinate people?

JRBids

Senior Member.
I still think they need prior access to the car. And Joe....why not kill him BEFORE he spills the beans?
 
J

Joe

Guest
I still think they need prior access to the car. And Joe....why not kill him BEFORE he spills the beans?
I agree just found it interesting .. seems the way they had it ripped apart they did access its ECM
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Perhaps you'd make a better case if you explained how his car could have been remote controlled into a tree.

Why would the Pentagon be sponsoring research into hacking into car computers?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...tely-control-steering-and-brakes-8733723.html

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Even self-hacked the response to one of them. That's pretty extreme.

lee h oswald said:
Why would the Pentagon be sponsoring research into hacking into car computers?


DARPA sponsored all kinds of hacking research. The aim is to improve cyber security.

The "fast-track" program that funded Miller was shut down recently, funding.
http://www.infosecurity-magazine.co...e-to-hackerfriendly-cyber-fast-track-program/

Here's the original program page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130318011230/http://cft.usma.edu/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The DOD is also working on self driving trucks. A huge amount of fatalities in Afghanistan are to folks in truck convoys. If a truck does not need a driver, that will reduce that type of loss. A concern would be is them being hacked and either used against others or for theft.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Can't they isolate the control system computer from all other electronic interaction, eg bluetooth connectivity?
I hate not being able to wind down my own window when I need to. This amount of control being dependent on a centralised system seems like a bad idea.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Can cars be hacked and used to that end? Most assuredly the possibility exists with modern cars, but let's not forget the limitations of those attacks:

  • The attacks demonstrated in the video require at the very least ODB-II access, meaning someone would ostensibly have to get into the car at some point if that were indeed the vector used. Additionally I think some of the more complicated attacks required tapping into wires directly, as evidenced by the fact that they basically dismantled the entire dashboard.
  • Bluetooth is another possible attack surface, though in my understanding most critical car systems are separated from the bluetooth functionality(which is typically for making phone calls and entertainment, not to interface in any way with the car's systems). Also, the common variety of Bluetooth, class 2, is of fairly limited range - about 10 meters.
  • Car companies are aware of the inherent problems with ECUs from a reliability and safety standpoint. It is in their interest to develop systems that would not place the occupants of the car in danger in the event of a software/hardware malfunction. Now, as evidenced by the video, the argument can be made that car companies do not or have not paid enough attention to security, but we shouldn't forget that they *do* pay attention to reliability in the case of hardware/software malfunction. In all likelihood the driver in the video is able to stop the car by applying the e-brake fully. Note that many of the attacks are not literally applying the gas or brakes at random, but rather tricking the car's collision avoidance system into believing it was about to get into an accident and thus behaving erratically compared to the actual driving conditions.
  • To that end, I believe(but could be wrong) that effort is being made on the part of manufacturers to separate critical car functionality from the more general-use computers on board such as navigation and entertainment systems, similar to aircraft(see: recent hype around mobile app that could supposedly take over airplanes, but was really tricking their altitude separation systems and nothing more).
 

asolovoice

New Member
This is a tricky one, with no real answers....yet. Being that most self driving cars are running some version of Linux, the software is being treated the same as if it were simply in a device. That means there are supposed layers to everything and the system is supposed to be doing everything in a separate layer as the os. However, as can be seen by devices, it doesn't always work, shortcuts are taken (for a short time, to be patched later), and in general things are done incorrectly.
Time will tell if someone can be killed remotely in a self driving car. My money is on yes. I live in a city that is a testing ground for self driving cars, I have to deal with these very unsafe vehicles everywhere. The simple fact that the company where I live refuses to turn over any crash data is very troubling, but they are a civilian wing of the Federal government, and want us to blindly believe them when they state that 'no accident was our fault'.
This is extremely troubling for many including me. I have tried to reach out and talk to them about how unsafe their vehicles are, and they refuse to talk to me.
So, I will say this about self driving cars: I have been studying them and how they work, I have dumpster dived and found the software being used, I know the frequency ranges being used and earmarked for them. If the silence continues until the eventual release to customers to be driven on city streets; I will be releasing a packet of info on torrent sites and on hundreds of deep-web sites detailing how to shut the cars down at any time in almost any place. Somebody may not use your car to kill you, but will most likely prevent you from getting to where you are going by creating dead spots on roads and highways to render your vehicle useless and stuck in a traffic jam with other cars that can't go anywhere either.
 

Spectrar Ghost

Senior Member.
The simple fact that the company where I live refuses to turn over any crash data is very troubling, but they are a civilian wing of the Federal government, and want us to blindly believe them when they state that 'no accident was our fault'.

The company where you live? Typo? Care to elaborate otherwise?
 

Gridlock

Senior Member.
You could simply need to put pinholes in the brake lines, or cut the steering column to within a few turns of snapping, or fix it so the throttle cable sticks. Or all 3 if you really want to be sure. Which is to say a hacksaw is cheaper than a zero-day exploit...
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
You could simply need to put pinholes in the brake lines, or cut the steering column to within a few turns of snapping, or fix it so the throttle cable sticks. Or all 3 if you really want to be sure. Which is to say a hacksaw is cheaper than a zero-day exploit...

You could do all of those things, but they might leave traces of foul play.

The theory that Michael Hastings was murdered in this way has some plausibility (ie it is possible), but extremely improbable.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
View attachment 15411 Good luck trying to hack my car....
ewwww Fuchs!!!

Also the Steering was only able to be hacked into because the car had a self parking system and they tricked it into thinking it should be doing a parking maneuver.
so right now I don't think they could sensibly do anything to a person's car as standard without this access but it is useful for car manufacturers (and the military who want self driving vehicles) to look at. The military want to know how to prevent others tampering with them and how to tamper with other cars. Car manufacturers want to know their cars are safe and that you can't trick a car into thinking it is being emissions tested and reduce the performance for example.
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
The military want to know how to prevent others tampering with them and how to tamper with other cars.

The irony of modern warfare against terrorist organisations is that the higher tech we employ, they counter it by lower tech solutions. We spent billions on EOD technical solutions in Afghanistan, and the Taliban replied by making IEDs with zero metal content...

Stick to pre ECU era vehicles and this capability is somewhat useless...
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Also the Steering was only able to be hacked into because the car had a self parking system and they tricked it into thinking it should be doing a parking maneuver.
so right now I don't think they could sensibly do anything to a person's car as standard without this access
This summer they say (with this particular jeep) they could only takeover steering when the car is in reverse. Is that the same thing you are saying?
I hear this isnt possible really to do as the internet providers themselves have locked down access, But this summer they learned to hijack certain cars through the wifi entertainment systems. (dont quote me as this tech stuff is confusing)

oddly enough as i searched for the above link a new article october 2, 2015 popped up about legislation issues
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
This summer they say (with this particular jeep) they could only takeover steering when the car is in reverse. Is that the same thing you are saying?
Kind of. In the film they specifically said that they tricked it into thinking it was going in reverse and that it was trying to do the parking maneuver and that if they had let it, it would have done 2 full revolutions of the wheel
 
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