Bill Gates is helping fund geoengineering (chemtrails) ... so why are you denying it?

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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
No-one's denying discussion has happened. The reason people deny it is currently happening is because there is no evidence that it is being carried out, and there is evidence that it isn't. (atmospheric records contradict it actually happening)

Perhaps you could highlight the quote where "The scientists themselves openly discuss literally spraying aluminum into the air to stop global warming", couldn't see aluminium mentioned anywhere?
 

JDubyah

Member
Try thinking of it in this way:

There's a problem with climate change that is considered man-made. That's what used to be called 'Global Warming'.

The best 'fix' to this problem is to convince all the countries in the world to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, among other things.

Countries are not really moving on that very fast, and people began to get worried.

Some people - scientists, governments, and so on - began to think up possible 'plan B' options to help mitigate Climate Change until we're able to get Plan A (emissions reduction) up to speed. This in case things start to go really bad with the climate, and emergency measure might be needed.

So, a lot of people began writing down and discussing theories on what 'Plan B' might be.. a 'quick fix' so to speak. There had already been a lot of theories about this, especially in science and science fiction, for a long, long time. People with imaginations and intelligence could see this situation coming for a while.

A lot of these theories, plans, studies, simulations, documents, etc. made their way out to the public.

Some people who read them saw that they were just that - plans, studies, theories.

Some other people believed that it was evidence that it *was already happening*.

Some of those people read about 'spraying' aerosols in these papers, and thought that because airplane contrails look like 'sprays' to the untrained eye, then these plans must be in effect, and were being carried out by all those planes and trails we see in the sky.

However, those planes had been emitting contrails and persistent contrails for a long time, even before these theories came up. There may be more contrails now than in the past, but there are also a lot more flights now than in the past.

People were just not generally looking up, noticing them, and worrying about them - until some of the people who mistakenly believed these contrails were part of a secret program *told* them to look up, notice and be worried.
 
No-one's denying discussion has happened. The reason people deny it is currently happening is because there is no evidence that it is being carried out, and there is evidence that it isn't. (atmospheric records contradict it actually happening)

Perhaps you could highlight the quote where "The scientists themselves openly discuss literally spraying aluminum into the air to stop global warming", couldn't see aluminium mentioned anywhere?
How about from the horses mouth?

 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/06/bill-gates-climate-scientists-geoengineering

Geoengineering has been discussed on an open panel for some time now. The scientists themselves openly discuss literally spraying aluminum into the air to stop global warming... How is anyone really denying it's happening? Just trying to wrap my head around some of the thinking I'm seeing around here.
The article contains this: "The scientists, who advocate geoengineering methods such as spraying millions of tonnes of reflective particles..."

I'd like to see where they actually "advocate" such things. Studying methods of doing things is not the same as "advocating" that they actually be done.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I note that the article is almost 3 years old (Feb 2012) - and there is STILL no actual evidence of any of these programmes being anything more than studies.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
How about from the horses mouth?
Yes it is well known that Keith has advocated a plan for using Aluminium for SRM.

I think Pete Tar's point was that the aluminium thing is not anywhere in the article you linked - if you make a claim on here you are expected to provide the supporting evidence - linking to 1 article that doesn't include evidence of the claim is going to mean you get challenged as to your source - exactly as you were.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Well what's your problem exactly?
The article you posted CLEARLY says they are talking about stuff that MIGHT happen in the future.
There is concern that these people might get their way and we will have EXPERIMENTS.
This is a LONG way from Geo -engineering is happening right now sprayed by commercial aircraft.

The article does NOT actually mention aluminium either, it only mentions Sulphur dioxide and at 30 miles above the surface at that. Aircraft cruise at about 6 or 7 miles above the surface. You are suggesting it is clearly happening and everyone here is denying it, like the truth is in our faces and we refuse to see it.

I don't think anyone here is saying that is DEFINITELY NOT HAPPENING, just that there is no evidence of it.
Pretty much everything put forward as "proof" by the chemtrail promoters is speculative at best.

If you seriously think that stuff is being sprayed from aircraft, DO THE MATHS and find that it just won't fit.
the reason a persistent contrail IS Ice crystals is that MOST of the material in the trail was ALREADY IN THE AIR.

If you find Aluminium in collected rainwater, it is not proof it came out of a trail miles up in the air UNLESS you have managed to properly rule any other source. Aluminium s the 3rd most abundant element in the Earth;s crusdt so it is in dust. If dust has blown into your collecting bucket, that is a possible source right there. THat doesn't even take into account the fact that dust is always blown about the air and the rain falls through it, collecting it on the way.
This is why the air always seems a little bit cleaner just after a rainstorm.

People here understand science and proper reasoning and do not just rashly jump to conclusions based on, you know "reasons".
If you are certain aluminium is being sprayed for geoengineering, then show us some PROOF.
show us who is doing it, show how the stuff is being sprayed,assuming it is on an aircraft, then show us how it is loaded on the plane, who is supplying it etc. Without this, there is basically NOTHING to DENY.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Also the people in the article specifically state that IF the government supplied some funding, people like Bill Gates wouldn't have to, so therefore the geo engineering you are claiming is happening is not actually government sponsored.
 

JDubyah

Member
Think, 'cart before the horse'.

People read reports about things like sulfur and aluminum being *possible* candidates for *future* work, and now when they look up at contrails, think that's what's up there. Because that's what they were told by Chemtrail theorists, not because that's what's happening.

If they learned about contrails first, then read that scientists were studying how to one day maybe use aerosols to perform Geoengineering, then maybe they'd be less suspicious.

Unfortunately, the promoters of the Chemtrail conspiracy theory put the cart before the horse, and have been telling people contrails are geoengineering, and then go back and point to 'evidence' like this as proof they're right.

Contrails are real, are up there right now.

'Chemtrails' don't exist.

Geoengineering is a study and a collection of theories and simulations and plans that haven't been put into effect (yet). At least as far as spraying aerosols out of planes is concerned.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
How about from the horses mouth?

I'd like to know what you make of this statement, seen in the introduction: "Journalists have ignored the FACT that geoengineers are looking at aluminum, and have actually stated that aluminum has more desirable properites than sulphates."

I suspect that statement is false and it certainly is misleading. Why was it put on this vid?
 
Doesn't it seem more plausible that the plans being discussed are actually being done, rather than millions of people all over the world are crazy? Does to me.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/06/bill-gates-climate-scientists-geoengineering

Geoengineering has been discussed on an open panel for some time now. The scientists themselves openly discuss literally spraying aluminum into the air to stop global warming... How is anyone really denying it's happening? Just trying to wrap my head around some of the thinking I'm seeing around here.
Bill Gates has funded schemes to test geoengineering techniques.

The one being mentioned here was a single study of a balloon (nothing to do with planes!). See here: http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/trial-balloon-a-tiny-geoengineering-experiment/?_r=0

Notice also how careful the scientists involved are being to keep everything open and above board. If this was so "super secret", why are they conducting the tests so openly?

 

MikeC

Closed Account
Doesn't it seem more plausible that the plans being discussed are actually being done, than millions of people all over the world are crazy? Does to me.
no.

Firstly there is no suggestion that millions of people are crazy - but there is definitely a suggestion that many people do not know what is actually happening.

Secondly whether it is being done or not is not a matter of opinion nor decided by a vote - either it is being done or it is not - one of those is a fact that is supportable by evidence.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Doesn't it seem more plausible that the plans being discussed are actually being done, than millions of people all over the world are crazy? Does to me.
Which "millions" of people are you talking about?

Can you show us any evidence that these geoengineering plans, which so far have not progressed beyond a couple of balloon and ship experiments, are being done?

Or that the results of geoengineering would look ANYTHING like white lines behind planes? (They wouldn't.)

People see contrails all over the world, and have done so for decades. Are you suggesting that secret geoengineering, which for some reason doesn't look like geoengineering but does look like contrails, is being done all over the world?

How many people would that scheme involve?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Doesn't it seem more plausible that the plans being discussed are actually being done, rather than millions of people all over the world are crazy? Does to me.
Doesn't it seem more plausible that a small but vocal number of non-scientists are persuaded of things
by other non-scientists via YouTube videos, than that nefarious, illogical spraying has somehow been
mysteriously happening for 20 years, in front of everyone, yet somehow definitive scientific proof never arrives?
Does to me.



p.s. Here's another way to look at it...if it seems hard to believe that
"millions of people ('chemtrail' believers) all over the world are crazy,"

wouldn't it be much, much harder to accept that the billions of people who
agree with the scientists (that "chemtrails" are a fiction) are "crazy"?
 
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Landru

Moderator
Staff member
This thread has drifted off topic. I will move the posts that deal with NASA rockets to the appropriate thread. In the meantime any posts not dealing with Bill Gates will be deleted and the poster warned.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
OK. Just point us to
This thread has drifted off topic. I will move the posts that deal with NASA rockets to the appropriate thread. In the meantime any posts not dealing with Bill Gates will be deleted and the poster warned.
the new one
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
NASA discussion - https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...s-for-decades-actually-sounding-rockets.2009/
To focus on the claim of the thread -
So the reason why people 'deny it is happening' is right there.
You've been given the reasons. Now why are they not sufficient in your opinion?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
This thread has drifted off topic. I will move the posts that deal with NASA rockets to the appropriate thread. In the meantime any posts not dealing with Bill Gates will be deleted and the poster warned.
Actually, the thread title asks why we are denying "chemtrails". Pretty broad, if you ask me.
 
Geoengineering is the manipulation of the climate on a large scale. That can be achieved through spraying reflective pieces of aluminum or other heavy metals into the atmosphere (chemtrails) to reduce the amount of sunlight that reaches the earth.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
And how would such a 'large scale' operation be done? What would that look like?
By 'chemtrails' are you referring to what people call contrails and come from airline traffic?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
And that's how chemtrails and geoengineering are the same.
"Chemtrails" is NOT a technical term. It has been used in completely contradictory ways, even right in this thread. You are attempting to imply that YOUR definition is the one intended by others, when it wasn't and isn't.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
And that's how chemtrails and geoengineering are the same.
How? What would geoengineering in the stratosphere look like from the ground? Would it look anything like a white line behind an aircraft?

It is surprising, @hiilikeyourbird, considering you say that article is such a "wonderful read", that you apparently didn't make it down even as far as the end of the first paragraph. Why not?

image.jpg
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
That is what geoengineering with aerosol spraying looks like, yes.
You think that spraying sulphate or aluminium oxide at 70,000 feet would create persistent cirrus clouds? Could you elaborate on how that would occur? Where would the moisture come from, for one thing, given the humidity levels at that altitude?

When a NASA employee says they're spraying chemtrails, they're spraying chemtrails.
Right, from a rocket in a particular experiment.

And when every scientist in the world who is involved in geoengineering theory states that they are not doing it in the real world, they are all lying? Double standards much?
 
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