Bill Gates and Polio Vaccination

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Grieves

Senior Member
[Thread split off from https://www.metabunk.org/threads/515-Illuminati/page3]

They have invested over $1.5 Billion in eradicating polio, and are on track to actually do this within the decade.
Many multiple charitable organizations are committed to the cause of eradicating polio. the B&M Gates foundation can by no means claim responsibility should it come to pass. Their contribution is still commendable, as is their donations to AIDS and Malaria R&D, but its still beneath the means of their charity, and there are terribly pressing issues in the world right now that could, indeed, be soothed or even solved by 'throwing money at them'. The plight of American college students is one of them, to an extent.
 
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cheeple

Member
Many multiple charitable organizations are committed to the cause of eradicating polio. the B&M Gates foundation can by no means claim responsibility should it come to pass. Their contribution is still commendable, as is their donations to AIDS and Malaria R&D, but its still beneath the means of their charity, and there are terribly pressing issues in the world right now that could, indeed, be soothed or even solved by 'throwing money at them'. The plight of American college students is one of them, to an extent.
The Gates foundation Polio Vaccine has Paralyzed over 48,000 Children in India and caused Neurological disorders and over 50 Children in Chad paralyzed after the Meningitis "vaccine" compliments of the Bill and Melinda Gates "foundation". His father was a known Eugenicist and head of Planned Parenthood who's soul Mission is to slow down and reverse the birthrate of African Americans and Native American Indians.
 

RolandD

Active Member
The Gates foundation Polio Vaccine has Paralyzed over 48,000 Children in India and caused Neurological disorders and over 50 Children in Chad paralyzed after the Meningitis "vaccine" compliments of the Bill and Melinda Gates "foundation". His father was a known Eugenicist and head of Planned Parenthood who's soul Mission is to slow down and reverse the birthrate of African Americans and Native American Indians.
Any links to back that up?
 

RolandD

Active Member
Listen, I'm skeptical about the Gates/polio being true, but I'm not willing to discount it out of hand. Unfortunately, a video from infowars of him NOT denying it is not substantial enough to sway me. Hard data. Where can I find references documenting this? A google search turned up nothing more than you present here. Give me something that is not just accusations and hearsay.
 

cheeple

Member
Listen, I'm skeptical about the Gates/polio being true, but I'm not willing to discount it out of hand. Unfortunately, a video from infowars of him NOT denying it is not substantial enough to sway me. Hard data. Where can I find references documenting this? A google search turned up nothing more than you present here. Give me something that is not just accusations and hearsay.
Did you watch the video? he is asked point blank and he does not deny his vaccines, if your not gonna watch it because it's not from a Left wing source then there's nothing I can do for you, watch it then decide.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I actually have him on film not denying that his vaccines have paralyzed over 48,000 children.
As far as I am aware every video on YT involved Bill Gates not denying that.

do you have anything on him actually ADMITTING it? Or any actual study of paralysis from polio vaccines??

This article says that 124 children were afflicted by vaccine induced paralysis in Nigeria in 2009, 62 in 2008, and 69 in 2007.

 

RolandD

Active Member
Did you watch the video? he is asked point blank and he does not deny his vaccines, if your not gonna watch it because it's not from a Left wing source then there's nothing I can do for you, watch it then decide.
Yes, his answer was 'No, no', and then he went on to talk about the goals of the program. Once again, if all these over seas media outlets are covering this, point me to them. I don't want a left wing source, I want an unbiased source.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Yes, his answer was 'No, no'
Exactly - there is no evidene that "his" vaccines have paralysed 48,000 children.

, and then he went on to talk about the goals of the program. Once again, if all these over seas media outlets are covering this, point me to them. I don't want a left wing source, I want an unbiased source.
so why did you use infowars??
 

RolandD

Active Member
As far as I am aware every video on YT involved Bill Gates not denying that.

do you have anything on him actually ADMITTING it? Or any actual study of paralysis from polio vaccines??

This article says that 124 children were afflicted by vaccine induced paralysis in Nigeria in 2009, 62 in 2008, and 69 in 2007.

The next paragraph:

The oral vaccine has always carried a risk of infection, but it was an acceptable risk considering the alternative. I remember receiving the oral vaccine as a child.
 

RolandD

Active Member
Exactly - there is no evidene that "his" vaccines have paralysed 48,000 children.



so why did you use infowars??
I didn't use infowars, cheeple did. I was just being polite and watching the video to give his argument an opportunity to convince me. :cool:
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
infowars is not a 'left wing' source. It is a conspiracy theory source

How many children would have been paralyzed by polio
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I didn't use infowars, cheeple did. I was just being polite and watching the video to give his argument an opportunity to convince me. :cool:
sorry :(

The shource of the 48,00 figure appears to be this article on pubmed (which is referenced in an article by Mercola lambasting polio vaccines), which says:

As noted in this article the Indian cases are strongly geographically corelated in 2 states, and the occurence of NPAFP is also strongly correlated with more than 6 shots of OPV per year - maybe over-zealouness is to blame here??

This article argues that is the case - erradication may actually have a negative effect unless vaccination continues because herd immunity will decrease once the 3 year window of OPV vaccination ceases (ie stop vaccinating 3 years after last case is found) - and the expensive injected vaccine cannot be afforded.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Here is some more on the 'vaccine caused' paralysis in India

This is an Indian publication

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120116/jsp/frontpage/story_15011108.jsp#.UT6lyfJPdcU


Public health experts also estimate that between 100 and 180 children in India develop vaccine-associated polio paralysis (VAPP) each year, a rare but serious side effect of the OPV they had received to protect them from the wild poliovirus. As opposed to VDPV infection, VAPP affects the vaccinated children themselves.

“Our war on polio isn’t over,” said T. Jacob John, a former head of virology at the Christian Medical College, Vellore.

“Even if India remains free of wild polio in 2012 and 2013, it will need to pencil a strategy to eradicate all of polio — including VDPV (infections) and VAPP.”

Paediatricians and public health experts emphasise that it is the OPV alone that has helped India achieve the current zero level of wild polio — after thousands of infections each year during the 1980s and 1990s.

“It is the OPV that is even now preventing tens of thousands of children in India from getting polio every year. It is important to appreciate the huge number of cases this vaccine is averting,” said Hamid Jafari, head of the National Polio Surveillance Project, a joint initiative by the health ministry and the World Health Organisation.


Both VDPV infections and VAPP are long-recognised problems linked with the OPV, which is made from weakened but live viruses. Many countries, including America and Britain, have switched to an alternative, inactivated and injectible polio vaccine (IPV) made from killed viruses with no risk of vaccine-linked polio.

India’s public immunisation programme relies exclusively on the use of the OPV, and the IPV is used in India only in the private sector. The Indian Academy of Paediatrics recommends three doses of the IPV at six, ten and 14 weeks after birth, to be given along with routine doses of the OPV.

Now I found this working from the Pubmed link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11129888


"There are few cases of provocation, but a new phenomenon of aggravation by unnecessary intramuscular injections given to children with fever has been described. Such unnecessary injections are thought to be the cause of more severe paralysis in about 45% of cases and of converting a non-paralytic attack into paralysis in another 30% of the perhaps 200,000 cases in India each year. Aggravation is thought to be caused by a mechanism similar to the effects of physical activity. It is possible that massage might have a similar effect. Abscesses or their treatment may precipitate paralysis."


It seems that over vaccination may be the problem.

Also, I only find that 48,000 number linked back to the Pubmed article and it looks like it is found on conspiracy theory sites and and anti vaccine sites.

I spotted an Indian doctor commenting on one site, saying that some children were getting 20 dose of the OPV in one year.
 

RolandD

Active Member
I will concede the point some what, but I'm not sure that the blame can be laid solely on Bill Gates and his Foundation. It certainly needs investigated to find out why doctors are giving children so many doses, especially is such a short period of time. If it does turn out that the Foundation has been advising multiple doses in short periods, then something certainly needs to be done about it. It may also be that the doctors were overzealous, or possibly being paid per dose. It is also possible that parents thought it was best for their children and lied to doctors. Let's be reasonable and find out who is to blame.

The 48,000 cases of VAPP are tragic, but the elimination of polio is a noble cause to pursue.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I listen to BBC World at night and they recently covered a problem in India with doctors telling women that they had cancer and that they needed a hysterectomy. They were doing it for the money.

There is a lot of corruption in India, in government, in business and elsewhere. They are still developing methods to control it

I was in the beta testing for the polio injection, and among the earliest children to get the oral version also.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
It seems that over vaccination may be the problem.

Also, I only find that 48,000 number linked back to the Pubmed article and it looks like it is found on conspiracy theory sites and and anti vaccine sites.
So FACT based Infowars yet again :)

But why keep giving people multiple doses of OPV when a single injection does the trick?


Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz2NKBnf9SO
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Did you watch the video? he is asked point blank and he does not deny his vaccines, if your not gonna watch it because it's not from a Left wing source then there's nothing I can do for you, watch it then decide.

Infowars is a left wing source?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
But why keep giving people multiple doses of OPV when a single injection does the trick?
Maybe the parents think it's a good idea and bring them back over and over? Maybe the doctors are corrupt? What does overvaccination have to do with Bill Gates?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Maybe the parents think it's a good idea and bring them back over and over?
Not really logical is it? Much more likely they are told to come back as it is a 'course' of treatment, do you agree?

Maybe the doctors are corrupt?
More likely they are following instructions themselves. But why is the oral 'live' vaccine used, (or still manufactured even), when the dangers are known and a far more effective 'one shot vaccine' is available?

Seems wierd.

What does overvaccination have to do with Bill Gates?
Good question... anyone know the answer?

Sleeping sickness is another massive killer which has been treatable for over 50 years. At one time the drug, 'eflornithine' was quite widely available as it was used in cosmetics but when they stopped using it in cosmetics, manufacting of the drug effectively stopped as, (even though it was very cheap), Africans could not pay for it. The situation has improved slightly due to pressure on Pharma and a new range of facial hair remover.

There are errors in this article but you can get the drift here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/09/world/cosmetic-saves-a-cure-for-sleeping-sickness.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/health/research/08slee.html?_r=0
http://newint.org/features/2003/11/01/sleepingsickness/

Here is a history of the treatments:

http://www.parasitesandvectors.com/content/3/1/15
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
First let's go back to the polio vaccine.

There are some very good reasons that the OPV is preferred in countries with wild virus present


http://www.polioeradication.org/Polioandprevention/Thevaccines/OralpoliovaccineOPV.aspx

So it has been chosen by the WHO, not Bill Gates and it was chosen for a purpose.

Now to the drug for sleeping sickness. Drug companies are NOT charities, they have to make money, or they cannot keep developing drugs. There is a problem with us depending on only drug companies for new drugs, some diseases get overlooked. A major area is vaccines, because they are costly to develop, and because, in general, they carry some risk, so there is the problem of law suits (that is why there is a government program to protect them). Also, they are often not cost effective to develop and produce, since they can not really return a profit to the company. Diseases that are not common in the developed world is another area where 'big pharma' does not work well.

We need a different way of paying for such drugs, either the government needs to pay for their development (Can you see trying to get a bill through Congress to spend millions or more on developing a drug for a disease that Americans don't generally get?) I have often wondered if a small 'tax' on prescription drugs would be possible, but again, that would be very hard to pass. Everyone from the AARP to the insurance companies to the states would fight it
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
First let's go back to the polio vaccine.

There are some very good reasons that the OPV is preferred in countries with wild virus present


http://www.polioeradication.org/Polioandprevention/Thevaccines/OralpoliovaccineOPV.aspx

Mike C quotes: "NPAFP is also strongly correlated with more than 6 shots of OPV per year", which is very interesting and IMHO that seems a very strange thing to do, especially in the light of the timetable listed below.

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/polio-immunisation

The following disadvantages seem quite sanitised or even disingenuous to me. (if that's ok :))
Disadvantages
Although OPV is safe and effective, in extremely rare cases (approx. 1 in every 2.7 million first doses of the vaccine) the live attenuated vaccine virus in OPV can cause paralysis. In some cases it is believed that this vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) may be triggered by immune deficiency.

The extremely low risk of VAPP is well known and accepted by most public health programmes in the world because without OPV, hundreds of thousands of children would be crippled every year.[/EX]

A second disadvantage is that very rarely the virus in the vaccine may genetically change and start to circulate among a population. These viruses are known as circulating vaccine-derived polioviruses (cVDPV).
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/polio
Safety
OPV is an extremely safe vaccine. All OPV used in supplementary immunization activities for the Global Polio Eradication Initiative is pre-qualified by WHO and procured through UNICEF. In 2006, WHO issued a statement to affirm the quality and safety of OPV.
Given that "Before the polio vaccine, 13,000 to 20,000 people were paralyzed by polio, and about 1,000 people died from it each year in the United States", after spending all that money to have "an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly", appears to be a poor or even counterproductive investment.
A vial of OPV
Oral polio vaccine is usually provided in vials containing 10–20 doses of vaccine. A single dose is usually two drops
http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp

So it has been chosen by the WHO, not Bill Gates and it was chosen for a purpose.
Yes but it would be interesting to know the rationale.

Now to the drug for sleeping sickness. Drug companies are NOT charities, they have to make money, or they cannot keep developing drugs. There is a problem with us depending on only drug companies for new drugs, some diseases get overlooked. A major area is vaccines, because they are costly to develop, and because, in general, they carry some risk, so there is the problem of law suits (that is why there is a government program to protect them).
As seen above, the Pharma will make money even on their so called philanthropic work.

It is interesting to note the arsenic and ant freeze drug would comply with not one western standard but is widely used in Africa as a means of last resort and is quite legal to do so.

However, Pharma produces drugs for the west which as you remark, it accepts no liability for... sic bird flu vaccine.

We need a different way of paying for such drugs, either the government needs to pay for their development (Can you see trying to get a bill through Congress to spend millions or more on developing a drug for a disease that Americans don't generally get?)
And yet Africa is in massive debt and poverty because the west love to give massive loans to dictators who then invest that money back into the western banking system or their own personal gratification.

If the west is so keen to make 'the people' of Africa indebted, perhaps it would be far better to make the funds available in a way that actually helps the people such as proper medicines, vaccines and hospitals as well as education. Africa is a massively rich continent and is quite capable of paying it's own way, provided the 'Illuminati' bankers stop making it indebted by funding despots and promulgating wars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4619189.stm

 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I may be wrong but I did read an article by Jacob Puliyel. Essentially he discussed the issue of poor hygiene in some areas and that should be addressed before vaccinating. That does go some way to explain increases if they are in clusters. (Sorry I will look for a link later as it was a newspaper article. Either Guardian or Observer).
 

RolandD

Active Member
Mike C quotes: "NPAFP is also strongly correlated with more than 6 shots of OPV per year", which is very interesting and IMHO that seems a very strange thing to do, especially in the light of the timetable listed below.

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/polio-immunisation

The following disadvantages seem quite sanitised or even disingenuous to me. (if that's ok :))

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/polio


Given that "Before the polio vaccine, 13,000 to 20,000 people were paralyzed by polio, and about 1,000 people died from it each year in the United States", after spending all that money to have "an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly", appears to be a poor or even counterproductive investment.

http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html

UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp


UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp
UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp

UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp
UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp
UNICEF last year spent $757 million to provide 2.5 billion doses of vaccines to 99 countries, reaching an estimated 58 percent of the world's children. Its price list shows significant disparity, with Western drugmakers often charging UNICEF double what companies in India and Indonesia do. Just as striking is the steady rise in prices in the last decade, with the cost of vaccines against measles, polio and tetanus roughly doubling between 2001 and 2010. Prices of a few vaccines have remained flat or declined as additional competitors entered the market.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-05-unicef-discloses-vaccine-prices-1st.html#jCp



So it has been chosen by the WHO, not Bill Gates and it was chosen for a purpose.

Now to the drug for sleeping sickness. Drug companies are NOT charities, they have to make money, or they cannot keep developing drugs. There is a problem with us depending on only drug companies for new drugs, some diseases get overlooked. A major area is vaccines, because they are costly to develop, and because, in general, they carry some risk, so there is the problem of law suits (that is why there is a government program to protect them). Also, they are often not cost effective to develop and produce, since they can not really return a profit to the company. Diseases that are not common in the developed world is another area where 'big pharma' does not work well.

We need a different way of paying for such drugs, either the government needs to pay for their development (Can you see trying to get a bill through Congress to spend millions or more on developing a drug for a disease that Americans don't generally get?) I have often wondered if a small 'tax' on prescription drugs would be possible, but again, that would be very hard to pass. Everyone from the AARP to the insurance companies to the states would fight it
Up there should read doses of OPV, not shots.

Your timetable is for injections not oral.

The main reason OPV is still used is cost. Followed by being more effective against wild polio virus. Followed by the fact that it can offer passive immunity in those that come into contact with children that have recently received dosage.

In areas that have the wild virus, it really is the best option, and it appears that misuse is the cause of the problem.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Up there should read doses of OPV, not shots.

Your timetable is for injections not oral.

The main reason OPV is still used is cost. Followed by being more effective against wild polio virus. Followed by the fact that it can offer passive immunity in those that come into contact with children that have recently received dosage.

In areas that have the wild virus, it really is the best option, and it appears that misuse is the cause of the problem.
Yes I realise that but I did not have the direct comparison for OPV doses because it is 'Banned in the West'. I was saying; it seems very strange they should be administering over 6 doses per year.

If the west had not indebted Africa in the way it has, they could afford to pay for their own medicines of the higher quality with less side effects.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
After a bit of looking, it seems that all the anti vaccine folks and the 'Bill Gates is an eugenicist' sites have glammed onto Dr Puliyel's comments. I still haven't found the original, but it seems that he feels that spending money of improving hygiene would be better and that because we can create polio in the lab now, that it can not be eradicated.
 

RolandD

Active Member
Yes I realise that but I did not have the direct comparison for OPV doses because it is 'Banned in the West'. I was saying; it seems very strange they should be administering over 6 doses per year.

If the west had not indebted Africa in the way it has, they could afford to pay for their own medicines of the higher quality with less side effects.
Maybe, but in a situation where the wild virus is still active, OPV is still the best option.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
If the west had not indebted Africa in the way it has, they could afford to pay for their own medicines of the higher quality with less side effects.
In your never ending quest to blame "the west" (of course, you neglected the roles of China and Russia in Africa) for all the World's ills, you grossly over simplify Africa's development problems. There is a lot more to the systemic problems than simply bad loans to dictators.

(Sorry- I wrote this before the thread split- should probably be in the illuminati thread??)
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
In your never ending quest to blame "the west" (of course, you neglected the roles of China and Russia in Africa) for all the World's ills, you grossly over simplify Africa's development problems. There is a lot more to the systemic problems than simply bad loans to dictators.

(Sorry- I wrote this before the thread split- should probably be in the illuminati thread??)
LOL... do tell.

Actually my 'quest' as you call it is to blame the Illuminati banksters, not the 'people'... we are also victims.

In your quest to elevate the ethos of the banksters, and the war machine mentality you always resort to blaming everyone other than the American government.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
It is easy and popular these days to 'blame the West' for the worlds ills. Even with things that we have done in the past, like slavery, were NOT without an African helper. The slaves were captured by enemy tribes and then sold to the West (the tradition had been to KILL your enemies--in Africa and hundreds of years before, in Europe) Before the African tribes discovered that they could remove their enemies and make something from them, the plantation owners had relied on 'white indentured' servants from Europe.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The average American has a poor grasp of any history, other than that of England and the US. Other countries and areas only get mentioned when they intersect with the history of those 2 nations. Not just Africa or Asia or even Central and South America, it even extends to nations like Ireland. The major mention of Ireland in US textbooks is associated with the potato famine and the reason that that the Irish depended on potatoes was never mentioned.

I was a little better off than most, since I had a course in Latin American history in HS. Most of what I know, I have had to research and learn on my own--there is a reason that I have shelves full of books on the Celts, Rome and Greece and sections of others---the history of the Mongols is fascinating.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
LOL... do tell.

Actually my 'quest' as you call it is to blame the Illuminati banksters, not the 'people'... we are also victims.

In your quest to elevate the ethos of the banksters, and the war machine mentality you always resort to blaming everyone other than the American government.


Sorry Oxy...you can pretend you know my values but you don't.

It was YOU who repeatedly called it "the west"- I did not defend the "bankers", merely pointed out that your dime-store political and economic analysis serves no one but your own bias.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The average American has a poor grasp of any history, other than that of England and the US. Other countries and areas only get mentioned when they intersect with the history of those 2 nations. Not just Africa or Asia or even Central and South America, it even extends to nations like Ireland. The major mention of Ireland in US textbooks is associated with the potato famine and the reason that that the Irish depended on potatoes was never mentioned.

I was a little better off than most, since I had a course in Latin American history in HS. Most of what I know, I have had to research and learn on my own--there is a reason that I have shelves full of books on the Celts, Rome and Greece and sections of others---the history of the Mongols is fascinating.
I think it's more the average PERSON has a poor grasp of history. I never learnt ANY American history when I was growing up in the UK.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Sorry Oxy...you can pretend you know my values but you don't.

It was YOU who repeatedly called it "the west"- I did not defend the "bankers", merely pointed out that your dime-store political and economic analysis serves no one but your own bias.
I see, I can 'only pretend to know your values'.... I think you have made your 'values' clear enough... defend, defend, defend everything from financial terrorism to collateral murder, blame every one else... ignore any wrongdoing and justify it all in the name of 'democracy'.

Anyone with half a brain would know what I was referring to when I use the term "the west", no I am not referring to those who have been disenfranchised and put out on the streets by the corruption of the bankster illuminati, those in the west who are exhorted to 'buy, buy, buy with credit, credit and more credit in order to save the ponzi scheme commonly referred to as 'the economy' so they can put themselves in the same position as Africa, Greece, Spain, Portugal etc and be zombie debtors.

But no, as usual, you twist my words to try to suit your purpose. You are unremitting in your squirming and twisting... your values are clear... you make them clear because although you do not have the courage to come out and openly applaud the travesties perpetrated on the people, you do your very best to make excuses and divert blame, all from the shodowy world of 'debunking'... strange how you never debunk 'official bunk'.

Perhaps you would like to present a case as to how 'The Magdalene Scandal' was really a question of 'It wasn't the nuns fault or the church or the Irish government... the women brought it on themselves blah blah... they were fed and cared for blah blah... well you can't let them take advantage of the system... they need to be forced to work blah blah learn some discipline blah blah'. I expect you could do a really good PR job on that ... convince a few of the weak minded and pull a few 'ra ra go get em SRs' from your kindred spirits.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
I see, I can 'only pretend to know your values'.... I think you have made your 'values' clear enough... defend, defend, defend everything from financial terrorism to collateral murder, blame every one else... ignore any wrongdoing and justify it all in the name of 'democracy'. .
Not an accurate portrayal of my comments here, Oxy.

But thats to be expected I guess.

I simply point out bunk...and there is a lot of bunk in your posts.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I see, I can 'only pretend to know your values'.... I think you have made your 'values' clear enough... defend, defend, defend everything from financial terrorism to collateral murder, blame every one else...
Defending is different to clarifying, especially when there are shades of grey in everything.

Correcting does not mean you identify or validate everything else associated with that subject, it means you widen the knowledge about a subject. If someone is attached to a certain view, it's hard to adjust to the subtleties.
I think you just may be a little miffed that there's 'more to it' in every case, which can interfere with well-meaning righteous anger.

(Sorry to butt in.)

... strange how you never debunk 'official bunk'.
...
I would like to see more of this when it occurs, but one suspects they just have better fact-checkers.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Not really logical is it? Much more likely they are told to come back as it is a 'course' of treatment, do you agree?
I don't know. Maybe the mothers just think if one is good, let's have two.

More likely they are following instructions themselves. But why is the oral 'live' vaccine used, (or still manufactured even), when the dangers are known and a far more effective 'one shot vaccine' is available?
There may be reasons we don't know that the oral vaccine is used more. Perhaps it doesn't have to be refrigerated, or some other reason.

I asked what Bill Gates has to do with the choice of the vaccine, you said:

Good question... anyone know the answer?
I don't know the answer, but you seem to think Gates chooses the vaccine. I don't know that he does.
 
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