Big brother to switch off Your Appliances In the SMART GRID

Have any of you debunkers here at MetaBunk properly refuted any conspiracy theories about how the SMART GRID will enable the power providers and anyone they share that power with (aka the government) access to our homes and the ability to shut off specific appliances and control our heat and air remotely with or without our willingness let alone our permission? If you answered yes to this then you may not want to read the below from the Mail Online. It covers the full scheme of the SMART GRID and how all those crazy ideas about the power company controlling your washer & dryer and air and heat is not a crazy conspiracy theory after all.

Now I imagine at least a few if not many will switch from denial mode (does not exist, its conspiracy theory) to mitigate mode (its true but it’s not a big deal, no one is going to abuse the access to your home thru the smart grid) but whatever you do its getting hard to deny the SMART GRID’s real potential power, to hand over control of your home to the utility company. And before anyone says that’s ridiculous, the power company’s would never be able to get away with doing that just keep in mind the various “protection” acts that certain powerful corporations enjoy compliments of our federal government.

Never say Never when there’s lots of money to be made and power to be gained.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-make-millions--pay-sinister-technology.html
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Reading the entire article, it seems that they are talking about very brief turnouts, in order to prevent blackouts.

I live in an older home that needs to be rewired. We have to limit our electrical use. Want to use the toaster oven, turn off the electric heater or the Christmas lights. Even 30 minutes is not going to cause food to spoil. A blackout that takes longer might well cause a lot more problems.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Er. Power providers have no legal basis to install Smart Meters. Their only basis is to enter is with a warrant to disconnect your supply.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Sounds like fear based marketing to me. They pick the fridge because people freak out at the thought of their fridge being switched off by "Big Brother", and their food going bad. But

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2013/04/big-brother-controlling-your-fridge

 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Rolling blackouts have been a part of life for southern California for the past several years, during times of peak demand. If they could target specific appliances for short periods of time to avoid total darkness and not disrupt business and home life, I see no problem. I would prefer upgrades to the infrastructure, but until we figure out clean energy, Que Sera.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Rolling blackouts have been a part of life for southern California for the past several years, during times of peak demand. If they could target specific appliances for short periods of time to avoid total darkness and not disrupt business and home life, I see no problem. I would prefer upgrades to the infrastructure, but until we figure out clean energy, Que Sera.
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rebates-savings/summer-discount-plan/
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/business/savings-incentives/demand-response/

 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The ample supply of natural gas in the US is going to reduce our black out problems. Extra gas turbines are cheaper to build and much quicker to add to the system, than coal fired ones are. They also tend to draw less local opposition.

Everyone wants power, but few want a power plant near them. I am reminded of the folks in a up scale Dallas suburb that were complaining about their poor cell phone service, but then they protested every tower the cell phone companies wanted to erect.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
In New Zealand hot water heating used to be on a seperate circuit to enable it to be shut down remotley - this dates back to at least the 1960's that I can remember.

Found it: Ripple Control - seems it was used quite extensively around the world.

Edit: I also note that the system as proposed means that each individual appliance will sense the frequency of hte power supply, and switch itself off if the frequency is outside limits (essentialy if it falls too low due high demand) - this is actually NOT someone else controlling your machine - at least not for long - if ther was any deliberate attempt at "electrical blackmail" by companies manipulating the frequency I imagien tehy would ge very short shrift!

In fact it is less intrusive than the older ripple control, which WAS a matter of sending a deliberate signal along the lines to shut down supply.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Er. Power providers have no legal basis to install Smart Meters. Their only basis is to enter is with a warrant to disconnect your supply.
Would you care to cite a legal precedent to confirm this? Here in the US, the utility owns the equipment up to and including the meter, and has the right to access ones property to perform mainenance, repairs and upgrades. We can opt out of a smart meter, at least in California with PG&E, if we pay an additional fee to cover the costs of manual meter readings. They also do not need a warrant to cut off supply for unpaid bills, or any suspected hazard, whether on their side of the meter or the homeowners.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Would you care to cite a legal precedent to confirm this? Here in the US, the utility owns the equipment up to and including the meter, and has the right to access ones property to perform mainenance, repairs and upgrades. We can opt out of a smart meter, at least in California with PG&E, if we pay an additional fee to cover the costs of manual meter readings. They also do not need a warrant to cut off supply for unpaid bills, or any suspected hazard, whether on their side of the meter or the homeowners.
Do you mean legal precedent as in case law or in legislation? The law is the Right of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/21/section/1

Any application has to be made to the Magistrates Court and a hearing is set. There are provisions for entry if they think life or property are in immediate danger. Few organisations have an implicit Right of Entry in the UK. As a generalisation even a bailiff will never get in unless it is repossession of your home, monies owed to HMRC or unpaid criminal fines.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm a bit confused.

Debunk a newspaper article?

Does that mean we have to prove the newspaper article is true?
Debunking isn't about proving something true or false. It's about finding and exposing bunk. There's plenty of bunk in the article, but then some of it is true as well.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Do you mean legal precedent as in case law or in legislation? The law is the Right of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourri...ter-your-home/gas-and-electricity-boards.html

A gas or electricity board official is entitled to ask to enter your home, or to apply to a magistrate for a warrant, in order to :


  • Inspect, substitute, re-install a meter (including a pre-payment meter).
  • Add, alter or repair supply lines or pipes and other fittings.
  • Remove from a pre-payment meter money or tokens belonging to the supplier.
  • Inspect any other fittings.
  • Disconnect the supply or remove a meter or other fittings in certain circumstances
I do not see where a warrant would be denied for the installation of a smart meter so long as proper notice was given by the supplier.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Do you mean legal precedent as in case law or in legislation? The law is the Right of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourri...ter-your-home/gas-and-electricity-boards.html



I do not see where a warrant would be denied for the installation of a smart meter so long as proper notice was given by the supplier.
I had an issue a number of years ago and they wanted to install a new prepayment meter and it dragged on for months when I refused entry. They applied for a warrant after about 6 months and it was rejected. Now that was a payment issue rather than just new equipment, but the need for a warrant is implicit. The magistrate noted on the day that he had only ever seen applications for entry to disconnect.
 

lotek

Active Member
i feel i need to add to this thread that IME, alot of resistance to this is from people growing pot... and that fixing that issue would make this one easier.

i am skeptical of these meters because of hacking. i am all too well aware of how crappy security has been shown to be on these sorts of systems and would give it 1-3weeks before i could pull a program off of tor that lets me wardrive streets a few days straight to gather habit info of houses to set up reliable theft/rape schemes. hell, id expect to see atleast a joke tool, a throwback to the old open cd drive command that used to cause laughs with subseven and other script kiddie trojans. but a little more dramatic this time around.

outside of that, im all for smart modulation of demand to comply with supply, and most every aspect of this. its just that i hope it is secure as a lead brick.

anyone have a link to how these guys connect? tcp/ip? open encryption? both ends? single or double? etc.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Moot point, nobody is going to force you to have a smart meter, at least not in the forseeable future.
https://www.gov.uk/smart-meters-how-they-work
[h=3]Do I have to have a smart meter?[/h]Smart meters will be rolled out as standard across the country by 2019. But there will not be a legal obligation on individuals to have one.
Energy companies will be required to install smart meters and take all reasonable steps to reach everyone. However, we do not expect energy companies to take legal action to fit a smart meter if they cannot get the householder’s co-operation.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
i feel i need to add to this thread that IME, alot of resistance to this is from people growing pot... and that fixing that issue would make this one easier.

i am skeptical of these meters because of hacking. i am all too well aware of how crappy security has been shown to be on these sorts of systems and would give it 1-3weeks before i could pull a program off of tor that lets me wardrive streets a few days straight to gather habit info of houses to set up reliable theft/rape schemes. hell, id expect to see atleast a joke tool, a throwback to the old open cd drive command that used to cause laughs with subseven and other script kiddie trojans. but a little more dramatic this time around.

outside of that, im all for smart modulation of demand to comply with supply, and most every aspect of this. its just that i hope it is secure as a lead brick.

anyone have a link to how these guys connect? tcp/ip? open encryption? both ends? single or double? etc.
Does this help? http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/customerservice/smartmeter/howitworks/index.page
 

Lost World

New Member
I rarely big up Alex Jones but he did report this over three years ago, and reading soe of the comments on Infowars, he was being shouted down as a complete lunatci, which indeed he is on many issues, but here we are soe years later and the technology is at last out in the open. I'm not however convinced it's to be used in a particulaly clandestine way. I think what gets the goat of the conspiricy folk is the potential abuses of the technology. They are getting upset about stuff that a) hasn't happened b) may not ever happen c) is not supported by any evdidence that it may ever happen.

A few years from a now a woman will lose the use of her fridge is some remote Arkansas town for three hours, during a brief surge and Alex Jones will be going "See!!! I told you so"
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
I rarely big up Alex Jones but he did report this over three years ago, and reading soe of the comments on Infowars, he was being shouted down as a complete lunatci, which indeed he is on many issues, but here we are soe years later and the technology is at last out in the open. I'm not however convinced it's to be used in a particulaly clandestine way. I think what gets the goat of the conspiricy folk is the potential abuses of the technology. They are getting upset about stuff that a) hasn't happened b) may not ever happen c) is not supported by any evdidence that it may ever happen.

A few years from a now a woman will lose the use of her fridge is some remote Arkansas town for three hours, during a brief surge and Alex Jones will be going "See!!! I told you so"
The concept of a "smart grid" has been discussed for a long time, but I imagine Jones was probably among the first to twist it into a conspiracy theory. Anything implying that some external force has control over something within your own home really gets the conspiracy imagination going.

It's ironic these folks aren't up-in-arms about their cable provider-issued TV set top boxes, their ISP-issued modem/routers, and even to some extent their home computers. They are just as susceptible to remote control, and in my opinion a much more scary prospect.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
And how many of them use cordless phones and WI-Fi at home? Both of which are fairly easy to tap into.
 

Lost World

New Member
The concept of a "smart grid" has been discussed for a long time, but I imagine Jones was probably among the first to twist it into a conspiracy theory. Anything implying that some external force has control over something within your own home really gets the conspiracy imagination going.

It's ironic these folks aren't up-in-arms about their cable provider-issued TV set top boxes, their ISP-issued modem/routers, and even to some extent their home computers. They are just as susceptible to remote control, and in my opinion a much more scary prospect.
Oh, I don't know Jones rants at length about TV's and computers 'watching you' and passing information to 'the feds' and to Google who were 'created by the CIA' as a surveillance tool! :rolleyes:
 

Jimbo

New Member
That's just how it starts. They are actually planning to turn your Cuisinart into a microphone and monitor all your conversations. Your toaster? Yes, you guessed it: full video surveillance. There was a report on this posted on the internet in the early 1990's but it was quickly and mysterious removed. Your Lawnboy? The rumors are all too real: it will be programmed to cut crop circles into your back yard grass to signal the Pleadeans. Any your toilet? I think we all saw in THX1138 where people are monitored for DRUG AVOIDANCE. This was George Lucas's first film, before his body was taken over by aliens. He tried to warn us but was taken down by Yalie CIA operatives from Skull and Bones. I could go on but... my electric shaver is watching... I can hear it breathing...
 
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