Astronomer Marian Rudnyk UFO convert

[johne1618]

Former NASA astronomer Marian Rudnyk (see his book Intersect) worked at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, from the late 80s to early 90s, as a manager at the Regional Planetary Image Facility where historic photographs of the Moon and the planets are stored. One day he decided to pull up the floor tiles in order to route some cabling. He came across a pile of vintage metal film canisters that contained original film from the historic 1960s Gemini missions. He told his colleagues one of whom happened to be a UFO enthusiast with a list of frames that according to UFO lore should show pictures of UFOs. When they examined the film they found that all these frames had been snipped out.

In the following video from 14:00 to 19:16, Rudnyk describes the discovery of the film canisters, the missing frames and the subsequent confiscation of the film by an agent sent by the Johnson Space Center in Texas.

From 31:44 to 48:49 on the video Rudnyk goes on to describe a 2017 sighting of four disk-shape UFOs from a McDonald's McDiner in Monrovia, California. His description is extremely detailed as you would expect from someone who had previously been employed as a professional astronomer. In his book he does a detailed calculation showing that the disks were 18 ft in diameter, 6 ft high, and at a range of 1/2 mile and an altitude of 1/3 mile. They could maintain minimum speed of 25 mph going from South to North against a wind going from West to East.

At 49:33 Rudnyk goes through explanations and decides the objects can't be balloons, bugs or drones. At 50:05 he dismisses an idea he saw on the internet that the objects could have been suspended by cables from a blimp hidden in the clouds. What other natural explanations could there be? I don't think they look like birds. I have included some photos and diagrams from the book to demonstrate that Rudnyk seems to do a good job of analyzing this UFO sighting. Of course one would have to buy the book to study the details.


Source: https://youtu.be/HLYAwl2l9xw&t=840s

A summary video of the 2017 UFO sighting


Source: https://youtu.be/bZkxd0elq8Y

Composite photo

Photo #1680

Disk #4 in photo #1680

Sketch of disk #4

Detailed site map with measurements used to calculate UFO size, range and altitude

 

[JMartJr]

I'm not clear what claim you are submitting for debunking here.

 

[Ashley Pomeroy]

I'm sure it's a typo, but the Gemini programme was strictly Earth orbit - the main goal was to test out orbital rendezvous. From what I remember of Michael Collins' Carrying the Fire the Gemini capsules didn't routinely carry movie cameras. Gemini 4 had one for Ed White's spacewalk. It was apparently some kind of 16mm camera shooting at 6fps, so I would be sceptical of its value in spotting UFOs.

The basic story of finding cans of what are presumably the original film rolls, in a space under the floor, just doesn't ring true. Why would NASA keep them? Why not make dupes, with the edits, and destroy the originals?

At the risk of "playing the man", the wording of his bio implies he worked for a place that was run by NASA, but not actually for NASA itself.

 

[johne1618]

I'm sure it's a typo, but the Gemini programme was strictly Earth orbit - the main goal was to test out orbital rendezvous.

My bad sorry. He didn't say that Gemini went to the Moon.

 

[Deleted member 17326]

The "Intersect" vid was underwhelming.

 

[deirdre]

I'm not clear what claim you are submitting for debunking here.

i think he wants us to debunk the star shaped foil balloons for some reason. even though he includes a pretty clear pic of the star shaped foil balloons.

 

[johne1618]

From what I remember of Michael Collins' Carrying the Fire the Gemini capsules didn't routinely carry movie cameras. Gemini 4 had one for Ed White's spacewalk. It was apparently some kind of 16mm camera shooting at 6fps, so I would be sceptical of its value in spotting UFOs.

What I saw amazed me – these were vintage metal film canisters!
The patina on the metal and labels, as well as their overall
appearance made my stomach sink and my hair stand up – these
was absolutely NO doubt in my mind: these were authentic – the real
deal – the actual original film canisters and films that flew into space
on the Gemini missions. These were the originals used by the
astronauts during those historic 1960's Gemini missions. The
collection was impressive. It included original sets of Gemini
Hasselblad flight negatives of hand held pictures taken by the
astronauts.

Intersect by Marian Rudnyk

The basic story of finding cans of what are presumably the original film rolls, in a space under the floor, just doesn't ring true. Why would NASA keep them? Why not make dupes, with the edits, and destroy the originals?

Maybe the person tasked with destroying the original film thought that it was too valuable to destroy so they hid it?

 

[taurusclover21]

Whenever someone labels a UFO as a "craft," their claims are immediately suspect.

 

[johne1618]

i think he wants us to debunk the star shaped foil balloons for some reason. even though he includes a pretty clear pic of the star shaped foil balloons.

Source: https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/los-angeles/historic?month=1&year=2017

According to a historical weather map of Los Angeles for Sun 1 Jan, 2017 the winds in the afternoon were light (no more than 2 mph) and going from East to West. As the objects moved steadily from South to North then they couldn't have been balloons.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Let me get this straight, according to the first few minutes of the video, this guy decided to DIY a cable install at NASA's JPL, which sounds sketch already, BUT THEN as soon as he got into the crawl space he found the "secret" films? The secret films from the '60s just happened to have been secreted away under the floor in the exact spot he had to run cable?

And what did these secret films show? Nothing. No UFOs. No aliens. Nothing, just some supposedly missing frames that he "claims" other UFOlogests claimed showed something. According to UFO lore. And then the films were taken away. Of course they were.

In addition, why would the films be at JPL? From what I can find, JPL didn't handle the Gemini program:

JPL was transferred to NASA in December 1958,[12] becoming the agency's primary planetary spacecraft center. JPL engineers designed and operated Ranger and Surveyor missions to the Moon that prepared the way for Apollo. JPL also led the way in interplanetary exploration with the Mariner missions to Venus, Mars, and Mercury.[6] In 1998, JPL opened the Near-Earth Object Program Office for NASA.[13] As of 2013, it has found 95% of asteroids that are a kilometer or more in diameter that cross Earth's orbit.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Propulsion_Laboratory

Manned missions were handled from Houston:

The Gemini program was managed by the Manned Spacecraft Center, located in Houston, Texas, under direction of the Office of Manned Space Flight, NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. Dr. George E. Mueller, Associate Administrator of NASA for Manned Space Flight, served as acting director of the Gemini program. William C. Schneider, Deputy Director of Manned Space Flight for Mission Operations served as mission director on all Gemini flights beginning with Gemini 6A.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gemini

So, as usual, what we have is ~25:00 from an hour long YouTube video of some guy telling a story, that has no proof or evidence to back it up at all.

More than that, what we have is somebody telling the UFO and Paranormal Research Society of LA exactly what they want to hear.

 

[NorCal Dave]

According to a historical weather map of Los Angeles for Sun 1 Jan 2017 the winds in the afternoon were light (no more than 2 mph) and going from East to West.

Thats not what you said he said up above.

They could maintain minimum speed of 25 mph going from South to North against a wind going from West to East.

Normal wind patterns in SoCal are from West to East, that is the wind blows on shore from the ocean. However in the fall and winter months it can blow from inland out to the ocean. When these are strong enough, they're known as the Santa Annas.

So if you weather history is correct, then Rudnyk's detailed calculation have the wind going in the wrong direction.

 

[johne1618]

In addition, why would the films be at JPL? From what I can find, JPL didn't handle the Gemini program:

During my time as consulting planetary scientist and manager at the
RPIF I also oversaw its move (as I mentioned before) from the
seventh floor of JPL building 264 (at JPL's center) to its
southwestern corner in building 202 room 101, right next to the main
southern entrance gate.

Then one late afternoon, after everyone in my area had gone home,
I decided to explore further into one of the new rooms I had acquired
that used to house the remnants of the PDS (Planetary Data
System) staff as they had moved out. First, I pulled up part of the
carpeting, and then proceeded to pop out one of the floor tiles –
which actually were like large heavy panels. With flashlight in hand I
plunged into the world below.

Source: Intersect by Marian Rudnyk

Maybe the Planetary Data System staff did have manned mission data?

 

[johne1618]

Thats not what you said he said up above.

Normal wind patterns in SoCal are from West to East, that is the wind blows on shore from the ocean. However in the fall and winter months it can blow from inland out to the ocean. When these are strong enough, they're known as the Santa Annas.

So if you weather history is correct, then Rudnyk's detailed calculation have the wind going in the wrong direction.

Rudnyk is basing his wind direction on how a large flag is moving in the pictures below. The flag doesn't seem to be moving much to me.

Source: Intersect by Marian Rudnyk

 

[deirdre]

then they couldn't have been balloons.

but they are balloons. i'm looking right at them. they re multicolored star shaped foil balloons.

 

[deirdre]

Rudnyk is basing his wind direction on how a large flag is moving in the pictures below. The flag doesn't seem to be moving much to me.

and theres a flag right in his composite photo. looks like its facing the same general direction of the balloons to me.

 

[Rocky]

I'm sure it's a typo, but the Gemini programme was strictly Earth orbit - the main goal was to test out orbital rendezvous. From what I remember of Michael Collins' Carrying the Fire the Gemini capsules didn't routinely carry movie cameras. Gemini 4 had one for Ed White's spacewalk. It was apparently some kind of 16mm camera shooting at 6fps, so I would be sceptical of its value in spotting UFOs.

The basic story of finding cans of what are presumably the original film rolls, in a space under the floor, just doesn't ring true. Why would NASA keep them? Why not make dupes, with the edits, and destroy the originals?

At the risk of "playing the man", the wording of his bio implies he worked for a place that was run by NASA, but not actually for NASA itself.

Thank you Ashley for posting this so I don't waste my time watching the videos with more UFO junk.

 

[Ann K]

Maybe they were legitimate films in the can, and the reason they were collected was because the owners were embarrassed at having mislaid them. And maybe they were collected because they were simply not his business. A flying object can be unidentified by the people who don't work on a particular project, and still be considered a secret that needn't be shared with every amateur. But a lot of his position seems to depend upon his mistrust of the government for which he worked, perhaps bespeaking a "conspiracy" mindset which merely gets in the way of any clear-eyed analysis of the subject.

The sketches show imaginative interpretations of his sighting that don't seem warranted at all by his film.

@Dierdre, good catch on the flag.

 

[deirdre]

ok this is off topic, sorry (this guy has ufos following him all over the place!) but this is driving me crazy. Where in this pic is the contrail? As someone who spent 5 years looking at a thousand contrail pics, it's irritating me that i can't find his.

http://www.rudnyk.com/

 

[JMartJr]

Rudnyk is basing his wind direction on how a large flag is moving in the pictures below. The flag doesn't seem to be moving much to me.

Wind at ground level (or flag level), especially in an area where there are trees, building and other obstructions, is not a good indicator of direction or strength of wind aloft.

 

[JMartJr]

ok this is off topic, sorry (this guy has ufos following him all over the place!) but this is driving me crazy. Where in this pic is the contrail? As someone who spent 5 years looking at a thousand contrail pics, it's irritating me that i can't find his.

View attachment 49660
http://www.rudnyk.com/

Maybe just above the line of low clouds just above the red letters? I am not at all confident about that, however...

 

[NorCal Dave]

Maybe the Planetary Data System staff did have manned mission data?

Why would they have had films from Gemini, which was an Earth orbit program handled from Houston?

And:

Then one late afternoon, after everyone in my area had gone home,
I decided to explore further into one of the new rooms I had acquired
that used to house the remnants of the PDS (Planetary Data
System) staff as they had moved out. First, I pulled up part of the
carpeting, and then proceeded to pop out one of the floor tiles –
which actually were like large heavy panels. With flashlight in hand I
plunged into the world below.

johne1618's post #12

That's not the story he told in the first video you posted. In that one he was doing a little DIY cable install, now he's claiming that he went spelunking after hours and found the film? If your trying to credential him, it's not working.

And, exactly what "film" did he find in the canisters? Some sort of motion picture film, like 16mil? If so, then if it was shot at somewhere between 16 and 24 frames per second and the frames that show the UFOs were removed, then they only showed up for around 1/16-1/24 of a second. And the frames containing the UFOs were removed and the film spliced back together? But I don't think movie film has numbered frames.

If it was rolls of still film, likely 35mil in those days, then the normal thing would have been to take a roll of developed negatives and make a contact sheet. So is he claiming he found a roll of negatives that had certain frames cut out?

Just some basic "what, where when" would help out here.

 

[NoParty]

No offense John, but I'm pretty sure we have a solid:
"Nothing to see here..."

 

[Ravi]

"Canisters hidden in the space under the floor". Yeah right.

This smells like horse manure.

 

[Mendel]

"Canisters hidden in the space under the floor". Yeah right.

What I'd like to see is
- photos of the canisters
- photos of the negatives
- corroboration by Johnson Space Center

I tried to find scans of the Gemini photos, but all I came up with was a mixed gallery, maybe someone else has more success?

 

[Easy Muffin]

I tried to find scans of the Gemini photos, but all I came up with was a mixed gallery, maybe someone else has more success?

https://tothemoon.ser.asu.edu/gallery/Gemini?

 

[Ravi]

What I'd like to see is
- photos of the canisters
- photos of the negatives
- corroboration by Johnson Space Center

I tried to find scans of the Gemini photos, but all I came up with was a mixed gallery, maybe someone else has more success?

Exactly.
"Hey, I found images that would change everything we know about us humans and space! Ok, lets make sure to not take any pictures of it and the canisters, because why would I, they will believe me, for sure".

 

[johne1618]

but they are balloons. i'm looking right at them. they re multicolored star shaped foil balloons.
View attachment 49653

Rudnyk claimed that he calculated that the objects were 18 ft across which would discount the balloon hypothesis.

However I don't understand how he made this calculation. In his book he says he has the following right-angle triangle:

He could estimate the observed angle a from the photo #1677 and the measurements he made at the site.

Photo #1677

However the crucial measurement is the ground distance D.

All he says is: "Comparison of the images while visiting the site confirms the ground track path, allowing for direct measurement, which was then confirmed by Google maps."

How did he do that? Measuring range and physical size using photography from a single viewpoint is a fundamental problem.

 

[Rory]

Rudnyk claimed that he calculated that the objects were 18 ft across which would discount the balloon hypothesis.

if his calculations were good - and your follow-up seems to indicate you don't think they were.

I'm in agreement with you on that point.

 

[johne1618]

Thats not what you said he said up above.

Normal wind patterns in SoCal are from West to East, that is the wind blows on shore from the ocean. However in the fall and winter months it can blow from inland out to the ocean. When these are strong enough, they're known as the Santa Annas.

So if you weather history is correct, then Rudnyk's detailed calculation have the wind going in the wrong direction.

Using the following link from the National Weather Service, historical observations for Los Angeles I selected Burbank and Jan 1, 2017:

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/d...&order=1&stn=KBUR&month1=01&day1=1&year1=2017

At a height of 10 meters the wind was 8 mph from the South. The objects were going South to North so they could have been blown by the wind. However Rudnyk calculates that they were going about 25 mph. His calculation depends on his estimate of the ground distance to the objects which I don't understand (see post #27).

 

[JMartJr]

At a height of 10 meters the wind was 8 mph from the South. The objects were going South to North so they could have been blown by the wind.

Unless they were at some altitude other than 10 meters.

 

[Rory]

His calculation depends on his estimate of the ground distance to the objects which I don't understand.

As far as I can tell it's impossible to estimate the ground distance.

 

[JMartJr]

As far as I can tell it's impossible to estimate the ground distance.

You could do it by guessing how big the objects were, based on believing them to be vehicles, then working all that trigonometry backwards.
But in that case working it all forwards and claiming to have derived the size of the objects thereby would be a tad disingenuous.

 

[deirdre]

Rudnyk claimed that he calculated that the objects were 18 ft across

a bit odd that noone else in that highly populated area, noticed 18 foot UFOs flying over them. if i were driving down the highway at 4pm, i would certainly notice a group of easter egg colored 18 foot UFOs flying over me.

 

[Rory]

You could do it by guessing how big the objects were, based on believing them to be vehicles, then working all that trigonometry backwards.

Exactly. Though John says "in his book Rudnyk calculated the size of the objects".

Perhaps John could contact him and ask him how he arrived at the ground distance?

 

[Ravi]

His YT channel is called "NASA Astronomer". How hilarious do you want it? I distrust anything this person says, sorry that is just my gut feeling.

 

[Rory]

I distrust anything this person says, sorry that is just my gut feeling.

What if they say "McDonald's sells hamburgers" or "balloons exist"?

 

[JMartJr]

So looking further along in the video, he shares pictures of what he says he was able to later identify as a huge spy balloon that can linger over an area for months:

I have tentatively reached a different conclusion as to the identity of the object:

I don't know of any way to say it that will not sound harsh, but sincerely and without malice, this does not seem to be a witness who can be taken seriously.

 

[Ravi]

What if they say "McDonald's sells hamburgers" or "balloons exist"?

Anything!

 

[NorCal Dave]

What if they say "McDonald's sells hamburgers" or "balloons exist"?

If it's Rudnyk saying it, I'll want to compare whatever MickyDees is selling to a hamburger from In & Out before believing.

 

[NorCal Dave]

How did he do that? Measuring range and physical size using photography from a single viewpoint is a fundamental problem.

So his changing stories about finding the secret film has no evidence to back it up and is dubious at best and now you, johne, are showing that his calculations about multiple UFOs floating over heavily populated SoCal are also problematic. And he thinks there are long term spy balloons floating around (post #37).

How credible do you find him now?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't get the impression that you posted this in the spirit of "Hey guys, this person is full of BS, please help me debunk him". I get the feeling that you post things like this as credible sources of UFO/paranormal information.