Any Bay Area debunkers? You may want to attend this

firepilot

Senior Member.
http://www.californiaskywatch.com/content/current-and-upcoming-events

Unitarian Universalist Forum
July 17, 2011

First Unitarian Universalist Church-San Francisco, CA

1187 Franklin Street at Geary, Martin Luther King Room

9:30 A.M. Sunday Morning (A light breakfast for slight fee offered at 9:00 A.M.)

The public is invited to attend this presentation.

Presentation by Rosalind Peterson, Founder of California Skywatch and the Agriculture Defense Coalition, and a keynote Speaker at the 60th Annual DPI/NGO Conference on Climate Change (New York, September 5-7, 2007.) GEOENGINEERING: The focus of the presentation will be on agriculture and the negative impacts of experimental weather modification and geoengineering programs on our trees, plants, crops, solar power production, photosynthesis, pollinators, and human health.

Only when the last tree has been cut down, / Only when the last river has been poisoned, / Only when the last fish has been caught, / Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten - Native American Cree Tribe Prophecy

NASA research studies show that increasingly persistent jet contrails may turn into man-made clouds (or white haze), that are “…trapping warmth in the atmosphere and exacerbating global warming…” NASA (2005), goes on to state that “…Any change in global cloud cover may contribute to long-term changes in the Earth’s climate. Contrails, especially persistent contrails, represent a human-caused increase in the Earth’s cloudiness, and are likely to be affecting climate and ultimately our natural resources…”

Unitarian Universalist Forum is a social and spiritual ministry devoted to furthering our understanding of global issues, social reform and human rights and the ultimate realization of peace and justice for all life.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
the negative impacts of experimental weather modification and geoengineering programs

The obvious implication being that she thinks these things are currently going on. And she doesn't mean cloud seeding.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
NASA research studies show that increasingly persistent jet contrails may turn into man-made clouds (or white haze) ...
This barely makes sense. I would like to see the source of this. Obviously it is being misused.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well, it's accurate if by "increasingly", they mean the number of flights have increased, so there are more contrails. But the sentence makes it sound like something about contrails themselves has changed.
 

Janet D

New Member
Thank you for the info. I'm close enough (Seattle) that I may be able to get to this one.

Whether RP really believes in what she's saying, or whether she's doing it for fame, profit, or some other motivation is something I would really like to know. At the very least I think attending this event would be a very good thing for me to do. It's a doable drive, I've got a lovely vintage '01 Prius (with low-mileage to boot!) and maybe I need to take a vacation to SF.

If anyone(s) would like to get together and attend this, contact me and we'll talk ~ Janet D
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
This barely makes sense. I would like to see the source of this. Obviously it is being misused.

Ah! Here it is. Maybe. There is a PDF linked from the "Jet Trails" page on California Skywatch. The PDF is from NASA LARC. I cannot find the original document.

Anyway, there is a paragraph at the bottom of the chart:

Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane and some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. Clouds are the largest variable controlling Earth's atmospheric temperature and climate. Any change in global cloud cover may contribute to long term changes in Earth's climate. Contrails, especially persistent contrails, represent a human caused increase in the Earth's cloudiness and are likely to be affecting climate and ultimately our natural resources. Scientists today are trying to learn more about the longevity of persistent contrails and how much they may affect the climate in the future.

This does not say "…trapping warmth in the atmosphere and exacerbating global warming…". This may not be the source, though.

What California Skywatch" don't seem to realise is that the contrails are not on purpose; that they are a consequence of modern air transport; and that there are no "chemicals" involved.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
I have tracked down the origin of the phrase "trapping warmth in the atmosphere and exacerbating global warming". It is in a Press Release Issued by EPSRC.
EPSRC (Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council) is the main UK government agency for funding research and training in engineering and the physical sciences.
It was picked up by Imperial College London and Science Daily and a few other science sites.

It is a good article. It is about research about how to reduce the occurrence of persistent contrails by limiting cruise altitudes to below likely contrail forming conditions. It even suggests instrumentation for aircraft so that pilots could tell if they were in contrail conditions. (I would have thought a rear facing video camera would be adequate... and cheaper.) The artile even gives a definition of "radiative forcing".

Apart from the main purpose of the news release, this article answers the basic questions about the trails in the sky; What are they? Who is doing it? What are they for? They are an unintentional consequence of air travel dependent of atmospheric conditions.

Of course the 2800-odd chemtrail and anti-geoengineering sites jumped on it because of that phrase. It does not originate from NASA at all. There is a link to the NASA Information Exchange program search page ... just in case editors need a photo of a genuine contrail, I suppose.
 

Janet D

New Member
"At present the production of contrails and their effect on the environment is not taken into account in government assessments of the environmental impact of air travel. Team leader, Dr Robert Noland, thinks it should be. He says, “We’d like this research to inform government policies, not just in the UK but throughout the EU and the rest of the world so that decision makers can take all the environmental issues into account and do the right thing.”"

Sounds like a good idea. Thank you again for tracking the source of this, RM. It's a lot less "scary" when you read the unadulterated article, ain't it? BTW, I'm not seeing as many persistent lingering contrails as I saw over Seattle in 2006. I figure the folks manufacturing aircraft engines are always improving their products, but I really don't know why I've seen so many fewer. It could be because my attitude towards them have changed of course, but I don't know.
 

firepilot

Senior Member.
Because it depends on the time of year too. You will see less persistent contrails with summer weather patterns, and more as you get into colder winter weather.
 
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