A Plane Mistaken for a Drone

[Mick West]

A correspondent on Twitter sent me two videos of what he described as:

"had at-least 3 of these drones fly over my town for a few hours last night in the UK. I'm sure it's nothing out of ordinary I've just never seen one like it. (Not that I've seen a lot) Have you seen anything similar?
...
Oh definitely wasn't a plane, I'm always quick to open flight radar, and these were just flying around the town. I think this is the coordinates from google (51.1279926, -0.0158287) and the video was 18:48 GMT
...
They weren't high enough for planes, I'm close to Gatwick also so see a lot of planes everyday
"

"(51.1279926, -0.0158287) and the video was 18:48 GMT"

"(51.1275753, -0.0162673) @ 18:49"

I replied that I thought it looked more like a small plane. It turns out we were both wrong.

I stabilized the second video

An imperfect trail, as he's walking.

I did a quick look for planes, and found British Airways BAW61 was flying just south of the town at that point.

Dropping it into Google Earth showed it was at the right place at the right time, and the right angle.

He agreed:
"Crazy how deceiving it can be, really didn't look like one with the naked eye"

What's interesting here is how we've got someone familiar with the air traffic in the area, and also familiar with Flightradar24, and he mistook a 777 for a small drone. It's not an uncommon mistake, I initially mistook it for a small plane.

777s are very large and not that common. Much of the traffic in the area is smaller planes (A320, B737, and even smaller). A large plane higher up can seem unusual, and you can interpret it as something lower down. We've seen this before.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Oh definitely wasn't a plane, I'm always quick to open flight radar, and these were just flying around the town. I think this is the coordinates from google (51.1279926, -0.0158287) and the video was 18:48 GMT

Did it not show up on his flight app? I know some military flights don't show up, but most commercial ones do. Or maybe he saw it and then ignored it as too far away and too high?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

This kind of how far/how big misperception happened many times during the Great Colorado Drone Flap (2019/2020).

One example:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drone-photo-over-colorado-actually-a-boeing-737.11055/#post-235834

 

[flarkey]

A correspondent on Twitter sent me two videos of what he described as:

777s are very large and not that common. Much of the traffic in the area is smaller planes (A320, B737, and even smaller). A large plane higher up can seem unusual, and you can interpret it as something lower down. We've seen this before.

In my experience on reddit.com/r/UFOs the 777 is one of the most common aircraft to be misidentified as a 'black triangle' UFO/TR3B, particularly when flying away from the observer. The rear of the 2 wingtips and the tail have a white light which naturally forms a triangle, plus the 777 is really big! I've seen them myself (my house is on the route that the planes for China follow from London Heathrow.


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/17la6s5/comment/k7d35lq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/s5fpza/comment/ht14ejl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1908g2u/ufo_uap_video_manhattan_beach_ca_1424_915_pm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

 

[jarlrmai]

You can see the flashing beacons and the green and red nav lights in his video, anyone familiar with air traffic to know about FR24 should have been able see it was a plane..

 

[Mauro]

Funny, because just yesterday another plane was mistaken for a drone (albeit in a war zone):

https://www.twz.com/air/an-2-biplan...ns-thought-it-was-a-long-range-kamikaze-drone

 

[JMartJr]

This kind of how far/how big misperception happened many times during the Great Colorado Drone Flap (2019/2020).

One example:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drone-photo-over-colorado-actually-a-boeing-737.11055/#post-235834

And of course is taken to it's logical extreme when astronomical objects are chased as nearby UFOs (Note that "Floyd" is the name given by the UFO by one of the witnesses):

...When they looked up and saw Venus ahead of them, they mistakenly concluded that it was the same object they had just sighted. From the time they entered the car, until after they crossed the Pennsylvania line, their attention was riveted to a brilliant object in the east-southeast: unquestionably the planet Venus. Spaur hit the button on his microphone and radioed back to headquarters that the unidentified object, "the one that everybody says is going over," appeared to be hovering in front of their car... After ascertaining that they did not have a camera with them, the two deputies were ordered to keep the object in sight until a camera car could be dispatched to photograph it.

Spaur put the cruiser in gear, inched forward a little, and then a funny thing happened. Floyd appeared to inch forward too. This should not surprise us if we remember that celestial bodies appear to "pace" a moving vehicle. Every child at some point asks his parent why the moon seems to be "following" their car, and it is a wise parent who can explain, in simple terms, that a distant body like the moon or Venus shows no noticeable displacement due to the motion of the vehicle, as nearby objects do, and hence appears to follow the observer. (This explanation, however, appears to be beyond the comprehension of some of the well-known "scientific" UFO investigators, who naively interpret every reported following of a vehicle by a bright celestial body as a "close encounter of the first kind.") No matter how fast Cruiser P-13 approached the object, Floyd appeared to move away at exactly the same speed. Spaur, a former race-car driver, quickly picked up speed and roared after the object. The Great UFO Chase was on.

​

Source: https://badufos.blogspot.com/2023/04/a-flying-saucer-named-floyd.html

Witness estimates of size/distance/speed of unknown objects in the sky are, at best, to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.​

 

[Minus0]

This kind of how far/how big misperception happened many times during the Great Colorado Drone Flap (2019/2020).

One example:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drone-photo-over-colorado-actually-a-boeing-737.11055/#post-235834

Wow it's baffling no one realized those are planes. Hugo is directly under the path of planes on final into Denver airport. Given the distance to the airport the plane would be less than 20,000ft above, definitely visible.

 

[Mick West]

Another one:

Source: https://youtu.be/ph3kpJT6a30?t=12

 

[jarlrmai]

Maybe flight tracking sites need to be more widely publicised to law enforcement.

 

[JMartJr]

Another one:

Dang it, I was about to post a thread on that news broadcast.

I assume the other "lights" they show at
Source: https://youtu.be/ph3kpJT6a30?t=18
saying "See those lights? Those are apparently drones as well, flying in a V formation.*" are more distant planes, possibly in a landing-approach? Though Jupiter and Venus are quite bright these nights, maybe not THAT bright? But bright stars/planets WOULD explain the ones that were there for hours, only disappearing when the Sun came up -- and if that accounts for some of the "drones," then she is right, they'll be back tonight unless it is cloudy.

* Yes, three lights form a V formation. Amazing. Also, the only thing they possibly CAN do unless they are in a straight line -- and if they were a straight line, THAT would be mysterious as well. At least they did not say it was one huge triangular UFO, so I guess be grateful for small mercies...

 

[jarlrmai]

at what time stamp?

 

[JMartJr]

Should be cued up to it, but if that does not work for some reason it is at 18 seconds.

 

[flarkey]

People on Reddit are now sharing footage of the 'drones', and they look exactly like planes.


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1h65k47/my_personal_droneuap_footage_taken_1118_vs_videos/?share_id=EFiMqXaraLzOjY-Lo08g3&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1


Thankfully most of the comments are "that's a plane, dude". But not all. On X yesterday I jokingly commented that 'perhaps the aliens are reverse engineering terrestrial tech' - but there are a few comments that seem to be serious....



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1h65k47/comment/m0bkx9w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Really remarkable reaction to a mundane 737.



This must be near an airport...

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Not saying this video was taken from Chatham NJ, but Chatham is inside Morris County, and I picked it more or less at random.

11 miles from Newark Airport.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Let's call this what it is... a UFO Flap. People used to see flying saucers, now they see mystery drones.

Reporter: Nancy Reed, who didn't want to show her face on camera, reported seeing drones every night since November 18th. She observes them from her bedroom window, typically between 7:30 and 10:30 PM, though occasionally earlier. She notes the absence of usual daytime sightings and contrasts this with the lack of regular air traffic patterns she used to see, such as flights to Morristown and Newark Airports. She finds it unusual that planes, once frequent, are no longer visible in the area.

Reed: I can see them right out my bedroom window and watch them. Last night, it was about 5:30 PM, earlier than usual. Normally, they appear between 7:30 and 10:30 PM. They're never seen during the day. One thing I haven't seen is the usual air traffic from Morristown and Newark Airports. Planes used to pass frequently, but not anymore, and I don't understand why they're no longer in the flight pattern.

Extraordinary logic. Newark Airport has completely shut down at night since Nov 18 and the drones have replaced the usual air traffic...

But only a few, select people have noticed...

...that Newark Airport has shut down at night...

... for weeks...

Once again, the media plays a role in this kind of Flap. They run fluff pieces, human interest stories, light entertainment. No one checked to see if Newark Airport has shut down at night? This reporter, and no one else involved at the station, has even the slightest inkling that maybe the so-called drones are the usual air traffic? C'mon.

Sooner or later, this will follow the usual trajectory. The early fluff pieces, and then one reporter or two will come out with more common sense stories... which will be rejected. "These are solid citizens. Whatever it is in the skies, they're seeing something real." Then it will die down.

Just as in the Great Colorado Drone Flap these reports are being generated by ordinary aircraft and by astronomical bodies - bright stars and planets .

The ones that hover all night, or follow people, or the ones people chase are astronomical bodies.

This person seems to be describing stars and planets that hover all night and go away at dawn.

We're all completely unnerved. I didn't sleep last night. When I got up and looked out my window at 2 a.m. and 4 a.m., they were still hovering. At 5:30 this morning, they were still there. As the sun started to rise, they went back in the same direction they came from. I expect they'll be back as soon as the sun goes down tonight.

I'd bet she can see the SW sky from her bedroom window.

What about this, though? She saw them move back in the direction they came from. That can't be stars and planets.

As the sun started to rise, they went back in the same direction they came from.

An example of a persistent problem. People tell you what they think, not what they saw. I'm betting that as the stars and planets faded from sight, she inferred that they went back to where they came from. A reasonable assumption. They went back to their base or their operator.

 

[Rationalman]

On the topic of drones being spotted over military bases, there are hundreds of bases, with at least 1 in every State. I live outside the largest military base in North America, Ft. Liberty, the former Ft. Bragg, NC and I haven't seen anything unusual so far or heard of anything like the reports of drones/UAP. So these incidents are very limited and uncommon. I see Starlink Satellites and planes, both military and civilian, quite a bit. I love to stargaze.

 

[JMartJr]

On the topic of drones being spotted over military bases, there are hundreds of bases, with at least 1 in every State.

That got me curious, and I tried to locate a comprehensive map of military installations in the US (presumably excluding secret ones, if any -- if there are any secret ones, I don't know about them! ^_^.) Had surprising difficulty doing this, nobody seems to want to make such a map unless it is related to some other issue, notably ground water contamination. But did find this one:

Source for maps:
Miltary Installations -- https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a1ec0d1276064ae387c863f2a14b11e1/page/Defense-Industrial-Base/ and Population density -- https://vividmaps.com/population-density-across-united-states/
UFO Reports (the green and black one) -- https://www.vox.com/2015/6/17/8791111/us-ufo-sighting-map


My assumption would be that anybody in charge of a military installation that could reasonably claim to be impacted by climate change and thus to get in line for a slice of any appropriations to mitigate said impact would make such a report -- so while the list may not be exhaustive, it might be close! In any case, it was the most exhaustive I found. I do not know if it includes national guard facilities and such, which a UFO reporter might consider a military base.

While possibly not exhaustive, this map is sufficient to make a point: when you look at and how closely UFO reports mirror population density (makes sense, people generate reports, more people generate more reports), with how closely-if-not-quite-perfectly military installations match a population density map (makes sense, other than bases where you need lots of empty space to practice blowing stuff up, having the infrastructure and amenities of nearby population centers would seem desirable) it would be expected that a large number of UFO reports would be "near" a military installation. This would be true whether the report was generated by an alien spaceship, an unknown flying jellyfish creature, or mis-identification of Venus. (A fun project, if anybody is looking for a project, would be to correlate other types of reported experience, such as bird watchers spotting some interesting bird, with nearness to a military installation. Presumably any correlation would not be because birds are checking out the military -- though, these days, such a claim would no longer surprise me.

Short form: If just a totally random distribution of people reported seeing a UFO, the resulting map of sightings would somewhat resemble a map of military installations, because of where people live and where bases are.

I live outside the largest military base in North America, Ft. Liberty, the former Ft. Bragg, NC

Ah, we can form a "Carolina Caucus" here, nice!

 

[Kyle Ferriter]

Ah, we can form a "Carolina Caucus" here, nice!

I live in Boston now but I grew up in Chapel Hill and lived in Raleigh for 8 years before moving here.

Once again, the media plays a role in this kind of Flap. They run fluff pieces, human interest stories, light entertainment. No one checked to see if Newark Airport has shut down at night? This reporter, and no one else involved at the station, has even the slightest inkling that maybe the so-called drones are the usual air traffic? C'mon.

Yeah this is the most frustrating part of this to me. To see people who should know better or who should express a bit of critical skepticism to claims they hear before parroting them, dumping fuel onto the fire of a mass hysteria. These news reports are now being (and will continue to be) cited as proof of all the extravagant claims since do you really think they would put it in the news if there wasn't something to it? And there's all these reports, do you really think they are all mistaken? And the FBI is saying they don't know, do you really think the FBI can't figure out what planes are?

 

[FatPhil]

Yeah this is the most frustrating part of this to me. To see people who should know better or who should express a bit of critical skepticism to claims they hear before parroting them, dumping fuel onto the fire of a mass hysteria. These news reports are now being (and will continue to be) cited as proof of all the extravagant claims since do you really think they would put it in the news if there wasn't something to it? And there's all these reports, do you really think they are all mistaken? And the FBI is saying they don't know, do you really think the FBI can't figure out what planes are?

CItogenesis:

That's over 10 years old.

 

[Jack Mallory]

Not sure if this has been shared elsewhere or not, but seems like a helpful reference.

Source: https://x.com/UFOintros/status/1864915148739350605

 

[jarlrmai]

It's also worth mentioning the FAA says

Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating within 10 miles of an airport and below 10,000 feet.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/f...ls/aviation/airplane_handbook/12_afh_ch11.pdf

 

[Ann K]

That's over 10 years old.

Bring it up to date by adding "AI" into that endless loop in step four.

 

[Deleted member 19512]

Another one:

Source: https://youtu.be/ph3kpJT6a30?t=12



View attachment 73939


View attachment 73938

This one is from a Fox interview with a NJ state assembly member.