2024 UK Drone Activity (Midlands, RAF Lakenheath)

S

samsabout

New Member
Hi,

I recently took the below videos from my garden in Leicester.
  • Date: 20/11/2024
  • Time: 18:50 (Approx)




I had a look online and found the below from Lichfield
  • Poster advised moving North from Lichfield (Near Birmingham) area.


There was also the below video posted:
  • Poster advised viewed from Minfield, Birmingham.


I put together the below, based on the little data I have available at this time, and with zero experience in trying to work this sort of thing out. In this respect, I'd have put a pretty debt circle round the point of convergence if functionality was available on google maps.

1732452203346.png


  • Leicester Distance: 48km (Approx)
  • Minfield Distance: 25km (Approx)
  • Lichfield Distance: 5km (Approx)

Based on the Lichfield video, the lights seem to blink in a pattern of once per second, for 3 seconds, followed by a 3-4 second delay. The pattern is then repeated.

Does anyone know if it is possible to use these videos, in order to approximate the altitude of the prospective drones? Interested to get an idea of what they are and whether they are potential hobbyists, especially considering the recent news stories of military base incursions in the UK.

With regards to visibility, the atmospheric conditions on 20/11/2024 seemed particularly good in this respect.

Also, I guess someone with more experience here, may be able to easily identify them based off of the available information.

Thanks for any advice! Please let me know if I can provide any further information.
 
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The Alrewas Hayes Country House is near your lines of convergence and a UK drone club lists it as a place with public right of way for drone operators.

1732514703691.png


External Quote:
Alrewas Hayes is a Country House hidden away in the heart of England, It is an historical country estate where exceptional event experiences happen. A place to escape from the everyday, Their Grade II listed Queen Anne residence has been hosting weddings, corporate retreats and private events for the past decade. It is set within private landscaped gardens and open parkland in rural Staffordshire, It's is a picturesque country estate steeped in history. Dating back to the early 18th century, it has been home to five generations of the Williams family. Despite it's exclusivity, there is a public right of way through the estate, which allows access to some of the Garden and House views. It's located less than a mile from Fradley Junction, Alrewas.
Source: https://greyarro.ws/t/alrewas-hayes...-to-historic-buildings-in-west-midlands/50548

I also found several recent wedding videos shot there that have shots from drones, here are a couple of them as examples.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FgqpOFEm4U



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GAhHDWW2iA



The most recent wedding reception held there seems to be on November 20th, though the video doesn't show any drone shots

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXaJntmLKKQ


The videographer also posted pictures the following day:

Source: https://www.threads.net/@mikeireland.co.uk/post/DCoMmHlAdpT



Source: https://www.threads.net/@mikeireland.co.uk/post/DCoNSkwgwmD


Update: I asked him if they were using drones at that time and he responded that this reception took place before that date but that the venue should be able to confirm if anyone was filming that day.

Source: https://www.threads.net/@mikeireland.co.uk/post/DCyQO97iIwb
 
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Thanks for the input.

For whatever reason, I was looking towards the sky rather than the ground for answers. I suppose that's why the site exists!

Looks good as a possible solution.

I've dropped the venue an email. Will update if they come back to me.
 
I live about 20 Miles from RAF Lakenheath which is home to USAF F-15 and F-35 squadrons. I regularly see them flying over my house during both day and night. The F-15s are easily identifiable by their flashing red anti collision lights - I've been seeing them for the last 12 years. Recently when the F-35s arrived I noticed that they had white flashing anti collision lights on their wingtips. There videos of recent 'drone' activity look very much like the white F-35 anti collision lights.


Source: https://youtube.com/shorts/LPZJXdkq-ms?si=uiHV95LWKQ2P3Grl


To be clear - I'm not saying that there weren't drones seen, but these videos appear to be of F-35s

Interesting that these lights were filmed over Lichfield - the Lichfield Corridor is a well known air traffic route for military aircraft going from RAF Lakenheath to the low fly areas of Wales.

https://wiki.ivao.aero/en/home/divisions/xu/soc/uk-radar-corridors

litchfield.jpg
 
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jarlrmai said:
US Military flights, especially F35s don't fly with ADS-B all that often i've noticed.
Click to expand...
I just found this on the Lichfield Corridor Facebook Group
Source: https: //www.facebook.com/share/p/FevFvuggYqaT1fYt/

Screenshot_20241125_121902_Facebook.jpg



Their track was available via ADSB mode A... this is a screenshot from 360radar.co.uk - a subscription service that provides greater coverage in the UK than other flight traffic sites like ADSBexchange or FlightRadar24.
FB_IMG_1732537314404.jpg



Edit- this was on Tuesday last week:
1732537607342.png


However:
1732537661649.png
 
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Nice work. Thanks again! Might have to stick around on the forum a bit more. Figuring these things out looks to be an enjoyable exercise.
 
Mendel said:
just to clarify, this refers to ADS-A?
Click to expand...

Good question, that's what the OP in the FB group said. But ADS-B stand for "Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast", so the A/B are not modes of ADS. It may have been a typo and they meant ADSB Mode S, which is a thing....

https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-works-and-why-you-should-care/325
One of the technologies mentioned in last month's newsletter in the article "Flight Tracking Tech," is multilateration (or MLAT). While ADS-B technology is currently considered "state of the art" as far as secondary radar monitoring goes, there is an earlier preceding technology called "Mode S" that emits some of the same information as ADS-B (i.e. altitude, vertical speed, squawk code, ICAO code), but is noticeably missing GPS positioning of aircraft.

While the position is missing, Mode S packets still emit the "six-digit ICAO hex code" that is uniquely assigned to every aircraft. Calculations on the time these packets are received can be performed to deduce the location of the aircraft via multilateration.

Multilateration (MLAT), as it relates to aircraft tracking, is a technique used to determine the position of an aircraft by measuring the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of a signal from the aircraft to several ground-based receivers. Here's a step-by-step explanation of how it works:
Click to expand...

Essentially Mode S doesn't transmit coordinates but instead uses the triangulation of radio signals to work out an approximate location.
 
flarkey said:
Good question, that's what the OP in the FB group said. But ADS-B stand for "Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast", so the A/B are not modes of ADS. I
Click to expand...
Yes, they are, ADS-A is Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Adressed. ADS-B is the periodic update the aircraft sends by itself, while ADS-A is a way to query an aircraft and get a response. ADS-C (contract) also exists.

flarkey said:
ADSB Mode S,
Click to expand...
"Mode S" predates ADS.
Article:
Mode-S employs airborne transponders to provide altitude and identification data, with Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (ADS-B) adding global navigation data typically obtained from a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver. The position and identification data supplied by Mode S/ADS-B broadcasts are available to pilots and air traffic controllers.


There's also even older mode 3/A, which describes the 4-digit "squawk" that pilots can set on their transponders.
 
flarkey said:
Essentially Mode S doesn't transmit coordinates
Click to expand...
yes
flarkey said:
but instead uses the triangulation of radio signals to work out an approximate location.
Click to expand...
no

The old transponders (mode A, mode C, mode S) don't send position information, but if you receive their transmissions on different stations with synchronized clocks, you can use the differences in time it took the same signal to reach these different stations with known locations to compute ("multilaterate") the aircraft's position. (This is kind of the reverse of GPS.) However, "Mode S" only describes the transponder transmission, not the multilateration process.

MonkeeSage said:
So ADSB Mode S is like the last thing you see before you crash?
Click to expand...
No. Why?
 
MonkeeSage said:
Is that different from ACAS anti-collision beacons? https://mode-s.org/decode/content/mode-s/4-acas.html#acas-with-mode-s-transponders
Click to expand...
Mode S is not an "anti-collision beacon", and neither are the others. Read the introduction https://mode-s.org/decode/content/introduction.html to understand this.

Among other things, the mode S message format allows the ACAS systems on two closing aircraft to coordinate a response (resolution advisory); the ACAS (TCAS) will tell one pilot to fly higher, while the other ACAS tells the other pilot to fly lower. I hope it's obvious why this needs to be coordinated.

Your page also says:
Article:
Once another aircraft is determined to be within the ACAS surveillance range, and within 10,000 ft of the own aircraft1, ACAS will initiate a short air-air interrogation (UF=0) to acquire the range.

Mode S transmits the altitude regularly, which is how the 10,000 ft criterium is determined. Apparently, the mode S apparatus is also able to directly determine the distance (range) to another mode S transponder.

This is not a "beacon", it's a protocol for aircraft to talk to ground stations and other aircraft about who they are and what they are doing.
 
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MonkeeSage said:
They call it a beacon in the whitepaper https://www.ll.mit.edu/sites/defaul...ode-s-beacon-radar-system-orlando-ja-6373.pdf :P but i really don't know shit about it and appreciate the knowledge.
Click to expand...
I suspect that's because the older system the Mode S was replacing was called that. But where the paper actually describes Mode S, I didn't see the word "beacon" used. I also think it's inappropriate for a 2-way communication protocol such as a "general-purpose ground-air-ground data link".
 
Re-drone sighting at US airbases in England. Has anyone looked into Starlink being a possible culprit? You can imagine how these reports start and then take on a life of their own? I expect base security on patrol reporting what they believe are drones and then it takes on a life of its own. Is there any way of recreating Starlink passes that would be visible over the likes of RAF Mildenhall, RAF Lakenheath and RAF Feltwell? Is it an option in Stellarium for example? It would be interesting to know what times the drones were sighted and of course direction. If pilots can be confused by Starlink then you can imagine security personnel also being confused.
 
This does seems like a dual flap a drone flap and UFO flap because UFO people cannot believe they are drones. in some ways they might be right. There might be far less actual drones than is being reported because this is how flaps go.

The problem really so far is a lack of detailed timed/dated/geolocated evidence for these things.
 
TEEJ said:
Re-drone sighting at US airbases in England. Has anyone looked into Starlink being a possible culprit? You can imagine how these reports start and then take on a life of their own? I expect base security on patrol reporting what they believe are drones and then it takes on a life of its own. Is there any way of recreating Starlink passes that would be visible over the likes of RAF Mildenhall, RAF Lakenheath and RAF Feltwell? Is it an option in Stellarium for example? It would be interesting to know what times the drones were sighted and of course direction. If pilots can be confused by Starlink then you can imagine security personnel also being confused.
Click to expand...

I think it's accurate to say there are actual drones over the airbases, however the news has caused a massive amount of misidentifications by nearby people. We often see this on UFO flaps - someone reports seeing a UFO and then hundreds of other start seeing things they can't identify and assume it's the same thing.

There was one sighting of Starlink reported as a UFO , which was jumped upon by Ross Coultart. He has since deleted his post.


Source: https://x.com/MichaelSCollura/status/1861440805317288410?t=bm4K2MjMcJ_907cQyep8Ig&s=19



Source: https://x.com/AeroTech_Space/status/1861247801046507717?t=IyuIlyP6iLChs7TsmzFEBQ&s=19
 
Falcon BMS manual TO 1F-16CMAM-34-1 section 20.2 says the F-16 has selectable strobe light patterns as follows, I assume the F-35s have similar options. I thought each plane in a formation was supposed to select a unique pattern, but looking at the videos I feel like I see two of the objects flashing 3 times and I cannot make out the others. Also apparently the strobe can be IR only, which I didnt know.
1732740076665.png
 
There just a big old drone flap going on at the moment all sorts of people are looking at the sky and misinterpretation is running wild

Eventually nothing will happen and it will die down as people get bored.
 
Info from the local spotters is that they have been listening into F-15E Strike Eagle communications during the night flying. F-15E crews are using their targeting pods and reporting back info to the control tower. Reporting on vehicles and people that they can see around the periphery of the airfield.
 
Mick West said:
It's not uncommon for people to mistake planes for drones, especially if they are looking for drones. Heck, the military has mistaken stars for drones.
Click to expand...
Folks interested in this can check out previous planes-seen-as-drones threads here on MB:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/a-plane-mistaken-for-a-drone.13788/
and
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/my...er-colorado-and-nebraska-chasing-venus.11048/
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/drone-photo-over-colorado-actually-a-boeing-737.11055/

Edit to add: Military mistaking stars for drones:
Source: https://youtu.be/pbxtTEWczRk
 
Mick West said:
It seems very much like this a flap. People seem very hungry for something, but I don't think this is it.
Click to expand...

Also, although this is quite a security issue for the local bases, the airspace over them hasn't been closed. The airspace here isn't particularly busy, but there are military airbases nearby, and there are often civilian aircraft that use the route eastward. Arrivals at London Stansted are visible from here too. Checking the ADSB playback, this was at 19.30 yesterday, about 30mins before the Reddit post above was uploaded.

1732783308873.png



This is the view that plane would have made from the RAF Lakenheath viewing area (spotter's carpark) at 52.4196 0.5796391.

1732783573609.png

Looks pretty close to what is seen in the video.
 
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Another Lakenheath video, 29th of Nov, the start time says "5 hours ago" at 4:20 PST, so about 11:20 PST, or 19:20 GMT start time. There's a couple of aircraft that show up, like this one 1.5 hours in:
2024-11-29_16-24-55.jpg


Can't really tell without an exact time, but there is some nearby traffic.
2024-11-29_16-30-55.jpg
 
TEEJ said:
Info from the local spotters is that they have been listening into F-15E Strike Eagle communications during the night flying. F-15E crews are using their targeting pods and reporting back info to the control tower. Reporting on vehicles and people that they can see around the periphery of the airfield.
Click to expand...

They're transmitting in clear? No encryption?
Front page of The Guardian if they're using targeting pods to monitor UK citizens in the UK, and advertising the fact I'd have thought.

A helicopter would be a much better choice in friendly airspace for monitoring road vehicles, people/ groups of people.

Strike Eagles are great, but they can hardly turn on a sixpence, and they're extremely loud.
They won't be doing any nap of the Earth flying. I don't know, but I doubt their targeting pods are good enough to provide a useful description of an individual person at night- if there are foolish or malign actors using drones (and personally I think the security risk presented by drones is widely underestimated) it will be a matter of identifying, arresting and prosecuting them.

Is there any evidence that supports the local spotters' claim?
 
Mick West said:
Another Lakenheath video, 29th of Nov, the start time says "5 hours ago" at 4:20 PST, so about 11:20 PST, or 19:20 GMT start time. There's a couple of aircraft that show up, like this one 1.5 hours in:
Click to expand...

Source

Source: https://x.com/RonyVernet/status/1862601771840864633

Original Source - trying to find the time code for when that is... Edit think it is 1h41m27s. (Time in YouTube)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/live/W0yRoEaPp1w?si=E9vprFhMfoaUIgZ-

Edit... https://mattw.io/youtube-metadata/ says the stream start time was 18.44.29hrs.

That would make the time of the sightings 20.25hrs. (2025hrs in YouTube) And posibly at 1h55m too. (That's 2055hrs)

Edit. got the time wrong.
1000131731.jpg



Can anyone stabilize this and speed it up?

 
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John J. said:
They're transmitting in clear? No encryption?
Front page of The Guardian if they're using targeting pods to monitor UK citizens in the UK, and advertising the fact I'd have thought.

A helicopter would be a much better choice in friendly airspace for monitoring road vehicles, people/ groups of people.

Strike Eagles are great, but they can hardly turn on a sixpence, and they're extremely loud.
They won't be doing any nap of the Earth flying. I don't know, but I doubt their targeting pods are good enough to provide a useful description of an individual person at night- if there are foolish or malign actors using drones (and personally I think the security risk presented by drones is widely underestimated) it will be a matter of identifying, arresting and prosecuting them.

Is there any evidence that supports the local spotters' claim?
Click to expand...

I don't know if there's any evidence, but they might be. Not to go looking for drones, that's a pretty silly claim, but they might be testing the equipment or something. I don't think that's unusual, and it being unencrypted makes me think that's what it is even more.

I think if if they were truly serious about going after the people launching the drones, if the drones actually exist, they'd use an ISR asset as it's an ISR mission. Something like a Global Hawk, since loitering and watching is what they are designed to do. Sending fighters after hobbyist drones sounds like something you'd see in a movie, not something that happens in real life. It'd be pretty wasteful, for sure.
 
SinStar said:
I don't know if there's any evidence, but they might be. Not to go looking for drones, that's a pretty silly claim
Click to expand...
Agreed.
SinStar said:
...they might be testing the equipment or something. I don't think that's unusual, and it being unencrypted makes me think that's what it is even more.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree about testing equipment in the sense that most of the flying out of RAF Lakenheath will be for training purposes.
I'd be very surprised if formal FLIR/ other targeting pod training were being conducted in the immediate area of the airbase where the only "targets" would be the local people and traffic- Lakenheath isn't in the middle of a military training area.

Policing, law enforcement and security outside of RAF Lakenheath's perimeter are the sole preserve of the local police and UK authorities. We can be confident that the UK Ministry of Defence liaises with the USAF about any perceived threats or possible protest/ disruptive action. It would seem sensible for the USAF and other US organisations to maintain situational awareness concerning local security issues, and to have planned responses in extremis.

But USAF aircraft collecting information on local people and their movements in the UK, and transmitting their observations in clear, would be a political gift to those who dislike US foreign policy/ the presence of USAF bases in the UK for whatever reason.
 
John J. said:
They're transmitting in clear? No encryption?
Front page of The Guardian if they're using targeting pods to monitor UK citizens in the UK, and advertising the fact I'd have thought.

A helicopter would be a much better choice in friendly airspace for monitoring road vehicles, people/ groups of people.

Strike Eagles are great, but they can hardly turn on a sixpence, and they're extremely loud.
They won't be doing any nap of the Earth flying. I don't know, but I doubt their targeting pods are good enough to provide a useful description of an individual person at night- if there are foolish or malign actors using drones (and personally I think the security risk presented by drones is widely underestimated) it will be a matter of identifying, arresting and prosecuting them.

Is there any evidence that supports the local spotters' claim?
Click to expand...
Sorry for late reply. Just the reporting via You Tube comments. I suggested that is what the F-15E Strike Eagles were doing when orbiting Lakenheath and the local area. Just the base being pro-active in response to the drone threat. Their Sniper pods are very capable. RAF Shadow R1 surveillance aircraft were also active over Lakenheath and other bases. Rumour is that RAF Protector drones were also in support of the Shadow R1 surveillance aircraft. The Shadows had their anti-collision strobes off obviously to not flare out their sensors.

1733345691203.png


From


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVII8SsDas


Usually Lakenheath ceases flying ops for Thanksgiving.

https://theaviationist.com/2024/11/30/us-bases-uk-drone-incursions-update/
 
Mick West said:
Another Lakenheath video, 29th of Nov, the start time says "5 hours ago" at 4:20 PST, so about 11:20 PST, or 19:20 GMT start time. There's a couple of aircraft that show up, like this one 1.5 hours in:
View attachment 73737

Can't really tell without an exact time, but there is some nearby traffic.
View attachment 73738
Click to expand...
This will be the RAF Shadow R1/R2 surveillance aircraft. It was noted orbiting over RAF Lakenheath. Anti collision strobe was mostly off and likely due to not interfering with their sensors. There was a NOTAM published in reference to military aircraft operating without lights in a 20 nautical mile radius of RAF Lakenheath.

https://theaviationist.com/2024/11/30/us-bases-uk-drone-incursions-update/

1733347120641.png
 
flarkey said:
Source

Source: https://x.com/RonyVernet/status/1862601771840864633

Original Source - trying to find the time code for when that is... Edit think it is 1h41m27s. (Time in YouTube)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/live/W0yRoEaPp1w?si=E9vprFhMfoaUIgZ-

Edit... https://mattw.io/youtube-metadata/ says the stream start time was 18.44.29hrs.

That would make the time of the sightings 20.25hrs. (2025hrs in YouTube) And posibly at 1h55m too. (That's 2055hrs)

Edit. got the time wrong.
View attachment 73752


Can anyone stabilize this and speed it up?

View attachment 73748
Click to expand...


It will be the RAF Shadow R1/R2 that was orbiting the area. They are not appearing on flight trackers for these missions. The person that filmed it discussed that they could hear propellor noise as it passed over. Strobe off so as not to flare out their sensors.


https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/shadow-r1/

For those not familiar with the Beechcraft Shadow. The aircraft would be using it's under belly sensors to monitor the area.

1733347622230.png
 
TEEJ said:
It will be the RAF Shadow R1/R2 that was orbiting the area.
Click to expand...
I think that's plausible.

Note how UFO enthusiast Rony Vernet mistakes an aircraft showing red and green nav lights and a white tail light, which sounds like a propeller aircraft to those filming, for a UFO:

rv.JPG


:rolleyes:
 
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