1. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iGSaVyPy0k&feature=player_embedded

    [​IMG]

    Please watch this brief video showing a shot of the brothers before the blast. Dzhokhar backpack is clearly white, and seems smaller than the blast backpacks. I know this is an AJ video but it is FBI footage of Dzhokhar and it is edited to show the shots with a white backpack. I do not believe this is photo-shopped even if I don't buy everything Alex is saying. Shot is from Atlantic wire showing the same thing, a white backpack.



    [​IMG]

    Can someone debunk the theory that since the backpacks don't match it makes it highly unlikely that the brothers were the real bombers. I heard CNN ran a brief article claiming that Dzhokhar stuffed the black pack into a white one, but based on the sizes that doesn't seem possible, and I can't find a link to that. Furthermore we would have been able to see pieces of the white backpack under the black if that were the case. Are there any images of exploded white backpacks? Can anyone explain Dzhokhar's white backpack?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Adam

    Adam Member

    I don't follow. Tamerlan's backpack was dark. Why does it matter if Dzhokhar's was light? I've seen one picture of an exploded backpack and it was dark. Seems to fit with the general look of Tamerlan's.
     
  3. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    Agreed. Who said that exploded backpack in the picture was definitely Dzhokhar's and not Tamerlan's? Also, upon inspection, it does look like there are some patterns of white on that exploded backpack. Obviously, when it exploded, thew white was muddied a bit and looks greyish. Some of the white in the picture seems to fall in line with that.

    Also, the black you see in the picture might be the "underbelly" of the backpack. For example, my backpack is red. However, the inside part of it is black. We're looking at one picture from one angle of an object that was just exploded and we're trying to piece together an entire mystery from that one picture. That practice is hardly effective.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    If that backpack is Tamerlan's, and the bombs where made out of the exact same things, where is Dzhokhar's? Doesn't it follow that the damage done by the same explosive would produce a at least similar result with the white backpack? The only "proof" we have that these two did this is that they were wearing backpacks that are consistent with the one(s?) found in the explosion. There is no video evidence of either brother planting a backpack. Therefore to have evidence that both were def involved wouldn't we need the second backpack? At the very least shouldn't there be some sort of forensic evidence (think the chemicals used in the white ink to die the backpack) be found on the scene. I have seen evidence for one black backpack being the bomb, and I have seen a similar pack on Tamerlan, I have not seen a single piece of physical evidence linking the younger brother to the bomb scene, besides videos of him with a backpack that we have no real evidence exploded.

    To address the underbelly argumet, we can clearly see the inside and outside o this backback and both sides are black, it could not have been Dzokhar's. Blast coloring would be uneven, this backpack is died black inside and out. If it was one of the brother's it was Tamerlan's. But either way to there is a larger point here where is the second backpack? Why would one backpack be vaporized and the other 90% intact if, as the FBI tells us, the same bombs were used? Furthermore I does anyone know if this backpack has been chemically analyzed and scientifically matched to the make of the one Tamerlan had? No matter how good any of us are at look at these photos it doesn't matter until we have real proof, which police reports should include. Does anyone have links to that info I can't find them anywhere?
     
  5. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    What about what they told the owner of the hijacked car?
     
  6. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    1.) My question remains; how do you know this isn't Tamerlan's bag? The location of Dzhokhar's doesn't matter.

    2.) In regards to your bolded part, if you hear this out of the mouth of anybody who believes Boston was a false flag, it proves that they lack critical thinking skills and have no idea how the justice system works. There is video evidence of them planting the bomb. Why haven't they released it? Because they're building a case. Ever gone to jury duty? They basically tell you that the only evidence you can consider is the evidence presented to you IN court. You cannot go on the internet and research it for yourself. They're not releasing the tape because they don't want to compromise the jury. If they release it, then they won't be able to use it in court to effectively sway the jury their way; and that is the most damning piece of evidence! It makes perfect sense!
     
  7. Adam

    Adam Member

    I believe there is video evidence of one of the brothers placing a backpack on the ground, etc followed by an explosion. Furthermore, having a photo of only one backpack does not mean there is not another backpack in evidence. It just means we don't have a picture of one. Surely you cannot expect the FBI to release all of its evidence to the public?

    But even if they were not able to locate the remains of the second backpack, that is not necessarily proof of anything - as you can tell in the photo, the two guys weren't using the same backpacks, so why should you assume they would "blow apart" in the same manner? Also, I don't know for certain that the two devices used were identical - I've certainly not read that anywhere, so unless you have, it's more than a bit of a jump.

    It's wrong to substitute lack of facts with a made-up narrative. Gaps are just gaps. Don't make up a story unless you have evidence to support it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    1) I don't know it isn't Tamerlan's bag throughout the post I say that it must be his/ is consistent with his. However there were about 40 people wearing similar black backpacks in the scene. Secondly the location of Dzhokhar's absolutely matters. If we only have proof of one device going off why is it consistent to suspect the brothers and not a lone wolf? If we only have one exploded backpack why two freakin suspects when it could have easily been a backpack with two bombs and one got taken out. If Dzhokhar's backpack had the same type of bomb in it we should find similar results to his backpack somewhere on the crime scene. Does anyone have any evidence of this?

    2) You seem to lacking critical thinking skills to think that, they aren't getting a jury trial and all of the evidence has been released. Do you have any sort of reason to think its possible that they haven't released all the evidence when again and again authorities are telling us they have released everything we need to see? It's freaking proprietorial misconduct to hide a piece of evidence until a case reaches trial! Have you ever been on a jury? Do you have any idea what discovery is?! You have to disclose any piece of evidence you are going to use in a trial before it starts!!!!!!! Do you have any ideas how many laws the cops would be breaking not to release that piece of evidence? (they might be able to hold while the case was active, and in the case that it would risk someone's life to release the information to the public, but can you think of anyway the location of Dzhokar's backpack could count as that?) I think you have seen one too many episodes of law and order, real courts don't work that way. I can not object more strongly to this line of reasoning, you are essentially saying I trust that there will be more evidence at some point. This in no way supports your argument that it must have been the brothers.

    3) This is not a made up story this is a massive gap in the official narrative. Please link to any video of either of the brother putting a back pack down if you can find one anywhere I'll stop and admit you are right. It is not a lack of critical thinking skills to say why in a scene with 40 people wearing the same backpack do you know it was him. There is tons of circumstantial evidence that it was the brothers but I have yet to see a single piece of physical evidence.

    Adam I am not substituting facts for a narrative I have no narrative I am asking a question. You say you think there is a video of them putting a backpack on the ground, well I think you just invented a massive fact to support the official narrative. And yes the police have released that the same style pressure cooker bomb was used in both explosions, and backpacks are generally made out of the same materials give me any reason to believe one would be vaporized and the other 90% left when the explosions were identical. Trying to silence dissent is sad, if I'm as wrong as you seem to think how about a single link about anything you just said?
     
  9. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Not true- You have the eyewitness account of the guy who got his legs blown off and the first things he said when he woke after surgery was that he saw who did it- said the guy put the backpack down right next to him - and helped draw a sketch.



    http://www.vnews.com/news/state/reg...bombing-bystander-jeff-bauman-recalls-suspect

    Also- as Cairenn mentioned you have the account of the owner of the hi-jacked car who said they told him they did it.

    Or course, there is also the admission from Dzhokhar himself...


    But "proof" is for a court of law not internet speculators.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    No links at all? Now you are saying eyewitness that you won't link in the slightest saw the guy but he wasn't on any cameras? Try this on for size an actual link of the brothers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Kpm5Lfx40 Here is a video account that seems to directly contradict what your supposed witnesses think. Proof is not for a court of law alone my friend and honestly its pretty easy in a lot of ways to prove something in a court of law even it isn't true. What I'm concerned about is the truth, and how much of it we can figure out with he information that we can find. The reason I am on this site is because I refuse to take anyone's argument as my own. I check both sides. To be frank the info wars people are way better linked and in most cases better spoken (in internet parlance) than they users on this site. This was one of the best arguments I saw any of them make, I wanted to see how people would respond on this site. I am deeply disappointed to say right now you guys are not winning on this one.
     
  11. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    1.) Two boms went off that day. I heard them and I saw them. You seem to be denying that two bombs went off. That picture of the backpack is most likely Tamerlan's by visual recognition, however, unlike Truthers, I will come out and say that I have no specialization in photo analysis and I, like everyone else, have only been exposed to probably 20-30% of the actual evidence.

    2.) Yes. I've been on a murder trial here in Massachusetts. I know how the court system works. Evidence has to be presented and available access to other lawyers and not the public. You're trying to make it sound like they have to present every piece of evidence they're using to every single schlub on the face of the planet.

    3.) Explain WHY there would be a massive gap on purpose? So, the government is smart enough to hatch this plan, yet not smart enough to provide a 100%, watertight story? Smart enough to bomb the Boston Marathon, but the story is weak enough for any idiot with a laptop to crack open? Yeah, that makes sense! They have access to evidence that you and I are not privy to. They are experts in the field. You and I are not. Funny how you say THEY have "tons of circumstantial evidence" yet you're saying that it probably wasn't him because other people had backpacks at the scene. You know victim Jeff Bauman helped identify the bombers, right? Instead of hiding behind your computer, why not come to Boston and say to his face that he's lying or is wrong?

    You do know that Alex Jones believes homosexuals are created by the government through juice boxes and he believes the FDNY is guilty of manslaughter on 9/11, right?

    Better spoken? I don't think so.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Melbury's Brick

    Melbury's Brick Active Member

    With respect, you are making a pretty poor show of suggesting that you are impartial, your tone clearly suggests that your mind is already made up on this subject.

    The picture released is a dark coloured backpack. The older brother was carrying a dark coloured backpack. The younger Tsarnaev had a lighter coloured backpack....Photographs of this post detonation, if any exist, have not been made public. We do not yet know the reason for this, but this investigation is at a very early stage. That is the situation.....everything else is guesswork and supposition. There is nothing to support the theory of this being "The wrong colored backpack".

    If it's guesswork you seek, how about guessing why the FBI would release the picture of this backpack if it was going to serve no purpose other than creating ambiguity for the ct to feed off? Or even, guessing why, if these two are "patsys" is one of them still alive?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Not to EVERYONE! For goodness' sake, I can't believe people think everything has to be proved to THEM. There will be a trial. The jurors will decide, not you, unless you're on the jury.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    Discovery info is available to the public unless a trial is cloistered stop making stuff up. The piece of proof that one poster claimed they had I wanted was video evidence of one of the brothers putting a back pack down. I have yet to tell anyone on this board what I think happened, this board is defending the official story and saying there are no gaps. What happened to the white back pack, does anyone have any witness or video accounts of Dzhokar putting a back pack down? I seem to have a tone because you guys all have made up your minds already and I am trying to figure out why you have done so without enough info to come to a conclusion. Drop as many insults as you want I really don't care. The thread asked what happened to the white back pack, none of you have responded to that except to say it isn't important or more info will be released later. I AM NOT SAYING THE GOVERNMENT DID THIS JUST THAT THERE ISNT ENOUGH PROOF TO BLAME THE BROTHERS. I don't have a narrative of what happened I have a question do any of you have a real answer as to what happened to the white backpack?
     
  15. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    What kind of prize can we win? Is it holiday ham like they give out on Letterman?
     
  16. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    If that's the case then post the deposition or any of the discovery evidence, for that matter.
     
  17. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    The prize you would win is me believing the truth-er crowd less. Plenty of times outlandish claims made by that faction are easily dis-proven, I was hoping this would be the case here. It hasn't been. And yes we will have to wait until after deposition to have all the official discovery info that's why I'm asking a board of rabid flag waivers if they have any pertinent information so I don't have to wait that long to see if this really is a sketchy situation. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT THE BACKPACK?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Adam

    Adam Member

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng-charges-federal-dzkokhar-tsarnaev/2103519/

     
  19. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    Where exactly do you think we get our information? Do you perhaps think I (we) have a red telephone that rings the director of the FBI? You'll just have to wait until the trail to satiate your curiosity about the details of what transpired on that day. Just like the rest of us. Then again you could always get your facts from the sometimes outlandish claims of the truther crowd.
     
  20. Adam

    Adam Member

    1) Yes, there may have been lots of other people with backpacks. But there aren't (apparently) lots of other people with backpacks with evidence tying them to the bombs. There is video evidence, eyewitness evidence, a confession and forensic evidence linking Tsaernaev and his dead brother to these bombs. And that's the stuff we know about. I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI, has a lot more evidence we don't know about.

    2) The surviving brother is indeed getting a jury trial, to my knowledge. Or are you aware of something that I am not? I don't think they've selected a jury yet (and I don't even know if they've indicted him yet), but it is extremely likely he will get a jury trial. I am not a lawyer, but I can tell from your comments that you are not either. I think it's probably best that we leave the legal stuff to the pros. I think you'll find the government is not required to disclose all of its evidence to the media in advance of a trial. And if Tsarnaev hasn't been indicted yet, I'd be surprised if discovery even applies. It wouldn't here in the UK.

    3) I've posted a link to a story which references the CCTV footage which shows Tsarnaev placing his bag at the spot where the explosion happened.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    Adam thank you for a real response this has given me enough information to continue pursuing this. I really don't care what any of you think so if you want to disregard now and act like you know everything feel free. There still aren't videos or pictures but I'll track them down and make my own decision.
     
  22. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    How would anyone who wasn't there or hasn't seen actual footage of it be able to answer this question?
    It cannot be answered only speculated on, something you say you aren't seeking to do. The question has no value to it, other than as a curiosity that can't at this stage, be satisfied.
    All the proof has not been made available to us, it is an ongoing investigation and a building of the case for prosecution. That will not be known to the world until the trial itself.

    Why are you pretending the shootout with the cops or confirmation from the younger brother himself, didn't happen?
     
  24. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Why does not jumping to contrarian conclusions make us rabid flag wavers?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    I'm curious. Let's assume the answer to your question is "no"... nobody on the entire internet knows anything about what happened to the white backpack.

    What conclusions will you draw from that fact?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Oh, the irony. . . .
     
  27. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    So which is it? Do you believe they released all of the evidence or not. It certainly can't be both.

    If you believe they released all of the evidence, then post it now in this thread. If you believe they have not released all of the evidence then why is it any wonder that not all of your question can be answered at this time? You know... questions like why "why don't rabid flag waivers have pictures of the exploded white backpack????"
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. AluminumTheory

    AluminumTheory Senior Member

    Even if that was the real backpack, that photo should never be used for investigation. What you're seeing could be the interior layers of the backpack which could be a different color than the outside. that and its a rather poor quality image.
    A real investigation would be first determining whether that was the backpack used by the bombers. And upon determination of that, see if you can identify the actual brand and make of backpack so you can see what it looked like before it was destroyed.
    But even then what are the odds of two or more people owning the same backpack being present at the boston marathon with 500,000 other spectators?

    Quite high i would assume.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. TrueFiction

    TrueFiction New Member

    The information I was looking for was out, Adam linked me to it. An official indictment has to list all evidence to be used, more can be added later at the judges discretion, but the basic facts of the case have been revealed at this point. I understand I contradicted myself and I apologize if I confused you, Adam figured out what I meant, I don't know why you got so angry, I'm just doing research.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    Watching videos on YouTube and/or sharing pictures on Facebook is not "research."
     
    • Like Like x 4
  31. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    That sort of thinking goes deeper than most CT'ers would like you to go.......
     
  32. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Yes there is a video account of Dzhokar placing the bomb. The criminal complaint (14) against him describes it quite well. Just because the FBI has not released (because they do not have to) the video does not mean it does not exist.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/137389667/Criminal-Complaint-against-Dzhokhar-A-Tsarnaev
     
  33. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Same old mantra regurgitated again... "Do they need to provide YOU or anyone else with evidence"... 'Why should YOU be given anything at all'... be it proof of wmd's, documents, data for sims of buildings collapsing, aircraft black boxes, anything at all really... well of course not why would sheep want evidence?

    Some people do wonder, I don't know how they dare?... why the fbi are so insistent on the bombs being in black backpacks when Dzhokar's was clearly white.



    Also the picture which 'was released to the press' to claim 'shows him with no backpack after the blasts', is speculative at best. Just because it cannot be clearly seen at that angle doesn't mean it wasn't there.

    I can only speculate that both backpack bombs were black... as per the quote... so how did he manage that, if that is indeed the case?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  34. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    I'll ask what someone already asked. How does anyone know the picture of the exploded backpack is one of the ones that contained a bomb?
     
  35. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Let us all just remember, this is a federal case and that means all court documents will be made public on a daily basis once the trial starts. Just because you don't have the information to form an opinion (harumph) doesn't mean it is always going to be like that. I have no doubt that the CT crowd will use the wait as evidence of the cover up though.
     
  36. Alchemist

    Alchemist Banned Banned

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  37. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    So it couldn't possibly be one of the backpacks the bomb squad detonated as a precaution after the fact? Or one a victim was wearing?

    Of course it can't, that wouldn't fit your predefined narrative.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  38. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    Exactly. Alchemist "knows" it is one of the bombers' personal backpacks because it fits his agenda easier. Simple as that.
     
  39. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    And what do you say about the quote from the official charges?

    If you were a jury member or defense attorney would you simply ignore this?


     
  40. ColtCabana

    ColtCabana Active Member

    Yeah, you're right. The Tsarnaevs were probably the only people in the greater Boston area with black backpacks.

    Considering that "Craft International" guy had his backpack on after the bombs went off, there's no chance it's the same backpack per the image that OP posted.