1. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    One of the main arguments 9-11 truthers use as 'proof' of controlled demolition is the alleged 'fact' that 'fire has never caused a tall building to collapse before or since', often going on to quote more recent incidents such as the Marina Torch and The Address fires in Dubai.

    Thankfully build collapses due to fire are very rare, however they can happen as the events unfolding in Tehran have proved
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38675628
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Video of collapse here

    So do tall building collapse when burning for several hours? The answer is rarely, but yes.


    See also:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 8
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
  2. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    More images of the fire and collapse


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    And the best video I've found so far,

    This vid is shot from the east of the building, given that all reports say it was the north side of the tower that failed first.

    Note that from around the 20 second mark there are sounds of loud 'cracks', at 33 seconds you see a large plume of flame below the point where the north wall begins to sag, then at 37 seconds the wall begins to fall down starting at a point 2 floors above where the plume was. By 42 seconds the wall is in 'free fall' and appears to be pulling the rest of the structure down with it, by 44 seconds all the upper floors are falling and the floors below are failing as they are hit by the upper floors. What appears to be the central core holds on for another second or so before all dropping and by 51 seconds the whole structure is down.

    It would be interesting to see if the exists any videos of the south aspect of the building, I suspect it would look very similar to the famous footage of the WTC7 collapse.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. benthamitemetric

    benthamitemetric Active Member

    Here's a picture of the building during construction. Looks like a fairly standard steel framed building.

    109702926_7f892fe4af_o.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The end result was somewhat similar.
    20170119-083723-aple1.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    WTC7 is the most obvious comparison, but aspects of the collapse also match the WTC1/2 collapses, like the "squibs" - supposedly explosions, but actually air and debris being forced out by collapsing floors below the actual line of collapse.

    Tehran-plasco-tower-collapse-live---Stabilized-Squibs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Conspriacy theory response seem to be mostly "looks nothing like WTC7", with some "obvious CIA MOSSAD". Example:


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpN_GM3XzI

     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You also have to consider scale, there are going to be differences because WTC7 was a lot bigger than the Plasco building
    20170119-095743-d00ca.
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. RFMarine

    RFMarine Member

  11. qed

    qed Senior Member

    The building collapses into its footprint.
     
  12. ETB

    ETB New Member

    Did the Plasco Buildings parapet free-fall like WTC7's parapet did for 2.3 seconds?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  13. Nada Truther

    Nada Truther Active Member

    There was probably a better firefighting effort made in the Plasco Building than WTC7. Most of the response team was either working at ground zero on WTC 1 and 2, or unfortunately inside the towers. Either way, they were unable probably unable to stagethe type of effort needed to truly fight the fires in Building 7 the way that they would have if it HAD been a normal fire. In Tehran, they weren't busy with two other horrible disasters and could send all that they had to handle the blaze and it still came down.

    I can't seem to find any info on how long the building burned for. Most of the links to the story had the start time around * am local time but no collapse time. WTC 7 burned relatively un-fought for almost 7 hours.

    Looking at the side-by-side images that Mick posted, I would say that they look Eerily similar, not just somewhat similar.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Obviously I picked those because they showed the same thing - a connected but somewhat crumpled section of the exterior wall that was laying on a pile of debris. There's some selection bias there, however when saw that Plasco image it strong reminded me of the few WTC7 images that were similar. I think it does indicate some similarity in the mode of collapse, in that the interior floors were stripped from the walls, which then buckled.

    WTC1/2 also had floor stripping, but the much higher and larger collapse mean there were no sections like this that survived intact - although a few can be seen falling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I remember the 1988 "First Interstate" fire. I watched it from my window, as I was living in downtown LA at the time.
    Five floors burned in the 62 story Los Angeles building that was undergoing an incompleted fire-sprinkler system upgrade. The fire Chief (or incident commander) almost pulled his crews due to worries of possible collapse, but the fire was doused before pulling firefighter teams.
    Later analysis by NIST and FEMA revealed that what saved the building from fire-collapse....was that the structure had an "exceptionally good" applied fire retardant, to the steel beams.

    http://ws680.nist.gov/publication/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=908807



     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 3
  16. Badguy21

    Badguy21 New Member

    The fire started at 7:59 A.M
    And plasco collapsed around 11:20 - 11:30 (A.M)
     
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It only takes a few minutes for unprotected steel to be compromised. Building collapse is generally going to need a fire that spreads a bt though, to make multiple connections fail.
     
  19. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    High rise buildings are a 20th and 21st century invention. As with any new invention, problems are forecast, but the real lessons are sometimes learned 'the hard way'.
    Fire is one lesson better understood after some unfortunate experiences.
    That being said, I think we'll see "less" structural steel-beamed collapses due to fire (as newer construction continues), because of the previously mentioned "lessons learned".....and that protective measures are being utilized as fire damage is better understood.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tanker-fire-causes-ca-highway-collapse/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    109702926_7f892fe4af_o.
    Here's a small image I found and expanded:
    20170122-115709-6zy56.


    Then there's this, looks like a postcard of a painted version of a photo.
    [​IMG]
    Caption "Ferdowsi, Solar 1341 (1962) - Picture Postcards"
    Source: http://www.arel.ir/fa/News-View-261.html

    Probably from this:
    [​IMG]

    Hard to make out what the interior column configuration is.

    These views are looking North, so they show the South face of the building, which is the one the sagged inwards and collapsed. It faces Jomhuori Eslami Street

    20170122-123118-so42v.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 3
  21. Polly Math

    Polly Math Member

    Bottom right hand side of the building.
    Bottom pic at this site. http://footofan.com/?p=27827
    20170123-081450-cm3nj.
    Do you see the damage to the structure at the lower RHS ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2017
  22. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    There does appear to be damage there and what looks like water on the ground - there has possibly been a hose laid out?
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Some updates:
    http://www.ncr-iran.org/fr/actualit...on-de-securite-mediocre-que-l-immeuble-plasco
     
  24. benthamitemetric

    benthamitemetric Active Member

    Interesting. It seems possible that fuel oil tanks could have exploded and initiated the floor collapses (though this doesn't help AE911Truth at all in their claims that the collapse sequence that followed looked like a controlled demolition), but I'm not sure the audio record we have evidences such explosions just prior to the onset. The only stand-out, sharply distinct sounds I hear across the recordings are consistent with the sound of floors crashing down though out, and I don't hear any such sounds preceding the start of the observable floor collapses (as evidenced by distortions to the building's face and dust expulsions). It also seems odd to me that any initial explosion event would involve three distinct explosions unless there were three separate fuel tanks right next to each other, which would seem odd as well, though perhaps it was the case that additional tanks had been added to a storage location over the years. I'd say we'd need to wait for more details before determining whether the fuel tank explosion initiated collapse theory was based on evidence or whether it was just an early form of CYA from a fire department that, in retrospect, should not have staged its personnel in the building.

    In any case, this is really feeling like a "jumped the shark moment" for AE911Truth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A little more detail:
    http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iraninsight/iran-s-plasco-tragedy-flames-put-out-by-tears
    http://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/soc...y-condition-as-the-collapsed-plasco-high-rise
    Note that seems to be just a different translation of Chamran's statement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 2
  26. Thomas Green

    Thomas Green New Member


    "The flames melted the metal structure of the building" he must be an imbecile. Just like Hyman Brown who told the BBC "But steel melts, and 24,000 gallons (91,000 litres) of aviation fluid melted the steel. Nothing is designed or will be designed to withstand that fire." on the 13'th of september 2001 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  27. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    No stupidity required. Simply ignorance. Chamran is chairman of the city council, a politician, not a physicist, not a chemist, not a metallurgist, nor an engineer.(that we know of)
    However, to extend the fact that fires do not normally reach the melting point of steel to mean that steel structures cannot be damaged enough by fire to cause collapse fails in the face of the evidence to the contrary and ignores the science of fire engineering just as badly as does saying it melts steel.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  28. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    And the statement probably wasn't given in English. The link that Mick posted was in French
     
  29. Thomas Green

    Thomas Green New Member

    In French it was "Les flammes ont fait fondre la structure métallique".

    True. He may not be a professionel. [...]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2017
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Lots of people use the term "melt" to simply refer to the softening or weakening of a substance. If shown a picture of a steel beam that has sagged from a heat of a fire, then many people will say that the fire melted the steel. It's just a vernacular usage.

    And please avoid use of terms like "stupid" or "lie". Be specific about what you think is incorrect.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Chamran
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    • Like Like x 1
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    • Informative Informative x 1
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So this is yet another thing that will force the truthers to either double down, or accept that some of their "evidence" isn't what they they thought it was.

    20170124-095224-s45im.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
  35. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    I have said before that reports of molten steel in any fire can be either true or untrue.
    There are numerous examples of reports of molten steel in numerous fires.

    If these reports are true, it is not unusual for steel to melt in severe fires..
    If they are untrue it simply underlibes the frequency of such erroneous reports.

    The pictures of very hot glowing metal is a likely source for such an error.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  36. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    Checking the Persian language Wikipedia page with Google translate. It says:
    The source for this would be this article.
    Google Translate struggles ^^ But I discern that the building was already on notice as not conforming to fire safety code.
    (Article also draws some parallels to WTC desaster. No woo.)
     
  37. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    There had been a progressive floor collapse in the north-east corner from at least the 10th floor down.

    Here is a news flash on Mizan and its Google translation - note the date and local time: 11:21 on the day of the event (Jan 19), about 10 minutes prior to total collapse.
    Make sure you watch the video in that article. It shows this partial progressive collapse.

    [Mod: Video attached]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2017
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  38. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Well, that explains the loss of the canopy and collapse of the car park. Right?
     
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Largely, in that's it's probably from a partial collapse, however in the video we can only really see the Northwest corner (the street side faces south, right in this image)
    20170125-074824-gi79b.

    Whereas the damaged canopy is in the Northeast
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    C2jIqJ_W8AIR_Fh.

    This photo from a few seconds into the collapse is interesting as it shows the deformation of the building's skin - especially visible on the right, in the area clear of smoke.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017