1. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-at-529-pm.pdf
    View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-15-2012-at-303-pm.pdf
    View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-at-725-pm.pdf
    View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-16-2012-at-431-pm.pdf
    View attachment search-warrant-dated-december-14-2012-redacted.pdf

    First off, I don't think Sandy Hook was a hoax. I am kind of playing devil's advocate here.

    But, I have been reading through the search warrants, and this does jump out at me. In the trunk of Adam's car, the search warrant states that they seized "two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds." I found this particularly interesting because I have been in the market for a Saiga 12 recently and have done some research. To date, the absolute largest magazine that I have found is actually a drum magazine that holds 30 rounds. If the search warrant is saying that there were 70 total rounds split between the two magazines, this would require each to hold at least 35 rounds. I can't find one that large to save my life. My gut tells me this is a mistake (although I would find it odd for there to be such a significant error on the search warrant details), and they actually seized two magazines containing 70 rounds of .223 ammo for the ar15. Further to this point, it would undoubtedly have to be a drum magazine to have this kind of capacity for 12 gauge rounds. I would think that the search warrant would have specified if it was a drum magazine if it was detailed enough to specify the make and caliber of the rounds. This is likely going to add fuel to the fire of the conspiracy saying that 2 long guns were seen being removed from the trunk. Can anybody predebunk this one and find a magazine for the Saiga 12 that holds 35 rounds? I have looked everywhere I know to look, and I can't find one.

    Page 14 of december-14-2012-redacted warrant
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  2. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That does seem wrong, the Saiga that was removed looked like it had a regular magazine on it.

    Maybe it was the Saiga with a regular 10 round mag, plus two 30 round drums, and they considered the 10 round mag part of the the Saiga. When you buy it it comes with a magazine (I imagine, I'm not a gun buyer).

    Ten round magazine:
    http://www.climags.com/saiga-12-gauge-10-round-magazine-promag/
    [​IMG]

    30 Round drum (EDIT: actually 20, see a few posts below for a 30 round drum)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  4. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    interesting. that could make sense. saiga's usually ship new with a 5 rd mag (there are various legal issues and hurdles to putting more than a 5 rd mag on one). but, a 10 rd and 2 30 rds would make sense. i would consider it debunked and likely that there is an incomplete description (10 rd mag not specified) in the search warrant. im sure this is being discussed on mb's around the country.
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It could just be careless comma usage, your OP except was:

    "two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

    Which does sound impossible. However the actual text is:

    "One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."

    Which would fit my explanation with the addition of a comma after the word "magazines"

    "One Saiga 12 Shotgun, serial number ...., with two magazines, containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 gauge shotgun rounds."
     
  6. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    i see what you're trying to get at, but specifying two magazines if there was a third in the gun seems incomplete to me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Agreed, but some cop not being 100% clear on a warrant seems a lot more sensible than the entire thing being faked by the media :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And I feel pretty sure there's going to be lots more "unanswered questions" that come out of these warrants. There's already been quite an uptick in Sandy Hook related searches.

    Like in the 529 warrant on page 6 it says "several handguns", when there were just two. This is just a lack of precision (perhaps when writing the warrant they had conflicting recollections from the investigators), but it will be seized on as "evidence" of something.
     
  9. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    agreed...just being proactive. :)
     
  10. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    yeah, i caught "several" when i was reading through.

    as far as people seizing on this type of thing (hopefully this doesn't result in threadbleed), i'm waiting for the day when some congressman trying to push gun control legislation jumps up in the middle of a congressional hearing and loudly proclaims "adam lanza had 2 clips that each held 70 rounds of shotgun shells!!! he had 140 rounds in 2 clips!!! who needs that many shells unless they're going to kill people?"

    that's the kind of stuff that comes out of this type of thing sometimes, and it frustrates me, cuz dude, I need that many shells to properly execute zombies!!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Check out the list of stuff recovered from the house:

    (The following text was generated by OCR from the dec-14 529 warrant, so may contain errors)
    I've highlighted the shotgun magazines. No 30 rounds, presumably because he took them with him.
     
  12. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    i don't think that's a complete list either. i think that's just from one of the search warrants from the house. there was also a few pictures of what appeared to be a dead body wrapped in plastic with blood...that one was kind of odd.

    for what it's worth, that seems like a lot of ammo...it really isn't. folks have been stockpiling recently due to shortages.
     
  13. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    "- Small plastic bag of screws and alien "

    holy crap. this deserves a new thread. can we debunk it?

    history-channel-aliens-meme-ancient-aliens-meme1.
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    :)
    That was a quick OCR, it's "screws and allen" (small allen screws are often used on guns)
    [​IMG]

    I'll fix it above.

    The word "allen" might also just be shorthand for "allen wrench"

    Typical allen screw and wrench on a Glock accessory:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  15. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  16. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    yeah, i figure allen is referring to allen wrench since it is mentioned separately from "screws".
     
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Indeed, which is great. Might as well explain everything now to save having to explain it later.
     
  18. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    can i not edit my posts?
     
  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Only for an hour.

    [edit] Hmm, actually 12 hours, what can't you edit?
     
  20. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    was trying to add image to post 13.
     
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Is there no "Edit post" button?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  22. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    yeah, i have the button, but nothing happens when i click save. maybe it's just something on my end.
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Click it harder.

    Sometimes I have to click it twice, however I suspect there might be something going on at your end, maybe a spam blocking plugin, or buggy IE. Sorry.
     
  24. betamonk

    betamonk Member

    hmm...it worked that time with a really fast double click.
     
  25. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Shoot, I have 2 shotguns and a rifle and I have half a box of shells, I guess I won't be doing much defending myself in the near future.
     
  26. vash1972

    vash1972 New Member

    Cops also like to leave the door open just in case something else is found later and can be added in.
     
  27. JonJson

    JonJson Active Member

    That is actually a 20 round drum. The only 30 round drum for a 12 gauge shotgun that I have found looks more like this.
    pop_wm_1516943.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Oops, counting fail. I thought I got that from a page selling a 30 round drum.

    Anyway 30 round drums exist,a nd they work quite effectively. Although carrying two of them around would not be that practical.


    Fox News failed slightly harder here:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/2...sed-in-newtown-investigation/?test=latestnews


    Large glove compartment :) And also solidifying the mistake of the 70 rounds of ammo just being in two magazines.


     
  29. JonJson

    JonJson Active Member

    Can't know it for certain but if you remember during the video of them removing the shotgun from the car, one of the guys collecting evidence can be seen lifting something out of the trunk after the gun was removed. It might have been what the two drum magazines were contained in.
     
  30. Tazmanian

    Tazmanian Account Closed

    In the search warrants, the black Honda is listed as VIN#2HGFA1F51AH54299 so I tried to look it up. It's only 16 numbers. A real VIN is 17 numbers. So then, I ran the license plate through CarFax 872YEO

    The VIN# that goes with that license plate is 2HGFA1F51AH542299

    Registered in 2-10-2011 Sandy Hook, Title #032544605
    Updated title #032570134 on 03-01-2011 and renewed 08-06-2012

    It doesn't list the owner's name.
     
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    "redacted" page 11:

    [​IMG]

    Close enough. I doubt a typo like that would invalidate the warrant, as it contains sufficient information to uniquely identify the car.

    Carfax says:

    [​IMG]

    Did you look at the actual records there? Can you post the last one?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  32. Tazmanian

    Tazmanian Account Closed

  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Does not look like they normally post owners then?
    http://vincheckreport.com/post/how-to-find-the-previous-car-owners-by-vin-number-in-4-steps/
    Do you think there's something odd here beyond a typo?
     
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  35. Josh Heuer

    Josh Heuer Active Member

    What happened with the NRA adamantly stating that neither Lanza's were actually registered NRA members? The warrant suggests they found both Adam and Nancy's membership certificates, but the NRA said impossible. Did they have fake certificates?
     
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The NRA pistol shooting certificate does not require an NRA membership.

    http://www.gunfaq.org/2013/03/nra-denies-lanza-relationship/
     
  37. Josh Heuer

    Josh Heuer Active Member


    Well, that clears that up. I thought it was fishy how the NRA came straight out and made the claim the Lanza's weren't members after seeing the police released the search warrants, but after seeing how you don't have to be a member to receive their pistol training course certificate, it makes sense.