1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    [​IMG]

    This video, uploaded June 25th 2015, appears to show two very different colored contrails, one described as "red" (although it's more of an orange pink, like a sunset cloud), and one "blue" (but really more like a normal white contrail).

    The planes themselves are barely visible in the video, appearing only when reflections from the sun highlight a spot on the plane. There seems to be quite a long gap between the plane and when the contrail is first visible.

    The two planes appear to be flying very similar routes, even appearing to curve in sync at one point (although it's not clear if that's a camera distortion). Regardless, they seem to be flying roughly together.
    [​IMG]

    Here's a composite image of the two trails, focusing on a section of each that is the same distance from each plane:
    [​IMG]
    Notice they are very similar in structure. But notice also when you look up close the "Blue" trail is not particularly blue - in fact it's pretty much white. It's also slightly brighter than the "red" trail.

    There are three obvious reasons why two trails in the same sky might be different colors, in decreasing order of likelihood.

    1. Differing Illumination - If one trail is lit directly by the sun, but the other is not, or if one trail is higher than the other and the sun is low, then the trails can be different color (typically this is one trail being darker than the other.
    2. Differing Composition - contrails (like all clouds) get their color from a combination of reflected, scattered, transmitted, and refracted light. If one trail has smaller particles, or more particles, or different shaped ice particles than the other, then this can change the color of the trail.
    3. Differing Material - by far the least likely explanation - but if one trail was made of something different to the other (or contained some additional substance) then they would look different.
    Now my first thought here was that it was illumination, that one trail (probably the white trail) was simply higher than the other. This image of a space shuttle launch is of one trail that's all the same (i.e. it's white), just lit differently at different altitudes. From dark grey at the bottom, through red, then orange, then eventually a bright white (again seemingly a little blue) at the highest points.
    [​IMG]

    I'd not rule this out, but the similarity in size and shape of the trails seems to indicate they are two similar planes separated by a few thousand feet at most, and possibly even flying in formation at the same altitude. If this was a situation with a low sun, then I'd also expect the other clouds to be more apparently red.

    Here are some examples of trails that are different colors near sunset/sunrise. Nothing that really resembles the video though.
    [​IMG]
    7e56ed43b301b0bb5dcd99ade6423038.


    The close up comparison of the trails then reminded me of this other Metabunk investigation of a red/blue pair of trails - this time inarguably at the same altitude.

    [​IMG]
    https://www.metabunk.org/white-grey...likely-intermixed-engine-configuration.t3246/

    The result of this investigation was one plane, with two different engine. The newer engine had a cooler exhaust, and so was producing a denser contrail with larger ice crystals. This meant that the color of the contrail was dominated by reflected white light.

    The older engine had hotter exhaust, the resulting ice crystals had a shorter formation time (as the exhaust gas remained hot longer as it mixed with the ambient air), and so the trail was composed of much smaller particles, and so the color was dominated by scattered light, resulting in a different colored (and dimmer) trail.

    [​IMG]

    So given this visual similarity, I'd suggest this is probably what is happening here with the red/blue trails. Two planes at similar altitudes, with one leaving a trail that has larger water particles than the other, probably because of different engines.
     
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  2. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I think these could be two military jets (fighters), flying in formation. The video was posted in mid-summer when the sun was high in the sky. The planes passed below the sun's position at about the same moment as they came across a small iridescent cloud (part of corona?). There were reflections from both at the same moment.

    Thus, there are two possible reasons for the trails having looked differently coloured, even if both were identical in density and composition. The upper trail was closer to the sun's position in the sky and therefore it would appear brighter and whiter due to Mie scattering which is the most intensive in the forward direction. The lower trail would be dimmer as it scattered the sunlight toward the observer at a greater angle than the upper one. Also, it is likely that, in the formation flight, the lower trail was partly in the shadow of the upper one.
     
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A wider shot from the video (0:58). The trails are non-persistent, and the color difference is less apparent.
    [​IMG]

    Boosting the saturation seems to show something of a spectrum in the "red" trail
    [​IMG]

    I think you'd see more banding within both the trails if that were so. But the colors seems fairly consistent along the trails. Looking at the wide shot above, they seem to close to each other for this to account for the different colors.
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I wish chemtrail believers would note the time and location of their videos! Planefinder.net has playback for June, when the video was uploaded, but without the date and a better location than "Midlands", trying to find the flights is a pretty hopeless task.
     
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  5. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I am not sure that I got your point. The apparent brightness of contrails depends on the intensity of Mie scattering toward the observer. This is not the only factor, as the contrail orientation relative the observer does matter too. The contrail seen mostly from its end would have more scattering particles per unit of angular width than the same contrail seen from its side. Therefore there will be a trade off between the orientation of contrail relative to the observer and its location in the sky relative to the Sun. I agree, however, that this would matter little for the OP case, as the two contrails appear to have essentially the same orientation and are much closer to each other than to the Sun's position. Indeed, a picture of of two fighter jets in formation controlling near the Sun that I found in my iPhoto library shows little difference in the contrail brightness (and colour):
    P1210574.

    I believe that both differences in brightness and colour in the OP case can be explained by the suggestion of the dimmer trail being in the shadow of the brighter trail. Its redness could be due to a larger proportion of scattered light contributing to its illumination. That is, it receives the same amount of scattered light but less direct sunlight than the brighter trail. Like the trails in the following photo from my iPhoto library, taken about 25 minutes before the sunset. Due to a low Sun, the trails from the port engines block direct sunlight for the trails from the starboard engines:
    DSCN6580.
     
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  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member


    My point was in relation to the "closer to the sun's position in the sky", by which I assumed you mean angular position, relative to the camera. If this were so, you'd be able to draw circles around the sun of equivalent "brightness", with the white in one band, and the red in another. But since the red and white go all the way along the contrails, that would mean they fit in one "band" (an angular distance from the sun). And since they are so close together, this is impossible.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Thanks, I got this. Yes, I thought so, but I also realised afterwards that the angular position relative the Sun is not the only factor determining the contrail brightness. However, the contrail "redness" is probably determined by a different factor, which I think is a proportion of scattered sunlight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  8. Lisa P

    Lisa P Active Member

    I don't think this is relevant to this thread but it reminded me of something I have noticed in the sky. On the rare days we have persistent contrails on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland Australia that spread to a haze and hang around for hours the haze appears the same colour as the lower clouds. When I look through polaroid sunglasses the haze takes on a pink hue and the lower clouds become very white. I can't comment if all the haze is from contrails as I haven't seen it from inception but all the haze in the distance will be pink also (not just the haze from known contrails). The haze is much further away from the white cloud and I wondered if it is pollution in the atmosphere causing the colour difference. It is only noticeable with the polaroid glasses. When the contrails are fresh I don't think they have a pink hue I will have to wait to check that next time.
     
  9. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i think it could be relevant. based on his other photos and videos he 1. has a real camera and 2. i dont see how he could possibly get some of those shots (beautiful) without a polarized filter.

    and look at this sky from one of his shots. i dont know how you get your camera to do that. I dont have a 'real' digital camera.

    I have to say ive never seen that color teal with normal eyes in my skies (NE USA). Although you do get tinges of that sort of thing when wearing polarized glasses.

    ss.PNG

    He also has many photos online (beautiful) that he is absolutely using a filter for (at least). But none of his still photos show that kind colorations in clouds or contrails. So that makes no sense to me either. Maybe it is pollution :)
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Regarding color change with altitude, the launch of the Super Strypi rocket yesterday (sadly failed) showed the same color gradation as the Space Shuttle example.


    [​IMG]

    Given there is telemetry, I wonder if it might be possible to correlate the altitude with colors, and see what separation would be needed to account for a noticeable red/blue difference.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Even that can be a game for them. Regarding the persons that filmed the footage in the OP (You Tube Channel name Sibec.) This is a husband and wife team (Simon and Becky/Becca). I've challenged them before about this and I all I got back was abuse and excuses that they don't have the time. They have recently been posting dates on some of their footage but I wouldn't trust them with the accuracy and I believe that they post the wrong dates in order to cover their tracks. They know very well that their footage can be challenged if they posted accurate times and dates. They enjoy the attention from their followers and friends too much to compromise themselves by posting accurate dates and times.

    There is possibly one bit of footage that narrows down their "Midlands" location. If I get some time I will upload it later on.
     
  12. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Further to my last. Sibec claims that he filmed this De Havilland Canada Dash 8, registration G-JECE on the 19th October. It is filmed from the garden at the rear of his house.

    upload_2015-11-6_18-17-30.

    upload_2015-11-6_18-23-31.



    The route on the 19th October took G-JECE through the Midlands flying from Edinburgh, Scotland to Southampton, England.

    upload_2015-11-6_18-30-5.

    http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GJECE/history/20151019/0545Z/EGPH/EGHI/tracklog

    From the video it certainly doesn't look like 25,000 feet! According to the data the aircraft was over the Midlands at 25,000 feet. This makes me believe that he is uploading false dates on his videos. G-JECE has operated from Birmingham airport during October so I expect that this is one of the local flights operating to from Birmingham? Perhaps earlier/later in October? Those Birmingham flight paths are certainly worth further investigation as you can see G-JECE passed very close to his house.

    http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GJECE/history
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    [​IMG]

    That must be missing at least one flight on the 19th though, as it has to get from Southampton to Edinburgh for the flight to London City on the 20th early AM.

    The stop in Southhampton is unusual, perhaps it did a short hop to London, then up to Edinburgh.
     
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  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'd guess from that he's most likely in Weston-on-Trent, watching south as the plane lands flying east.
    [​IMG]

    Although - gear up, and I'd kind of expect gear down at that point
     
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  16. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Mick. Certainly plenty of info to work on!
     
  17. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    In that video, in part dated 14 October (at 0:30), there is a turboprop in a similar livery probably the same or similar Dash 8:
    Screen Shot 2015-11-06 at 22.23.44.

    It is in the line with another (4-engine?) plane that can be used to verify the location.
     
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  18. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Snap! I've just been working through that video. Those aircraft are next on my list! I think that I have tracked down the general area in the Midlands. I think that there is enough clues in Sibec's videos to track down the filming location?

    I make that aircraft to be a Diamond DA-42 with an Airbus A380 in the background. Hopefully it will appear on Planefinder when I do a search?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA42
     
  19. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    No, I do not think it is a DA42. It is almost certainly a Dash 8 in the flybe special purple livery:
    Purple flybe DHC8.
     
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  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    It looks to me more like it is taking off, but it's hard to tell. The fact the gear is up suggests take off, too.

    Also, looking at where the sun is in the video, east doesn't look right. At that time of day the sun would be low in the west. Isn't the plane heading more northwest? There's so much panning around that I am getting confused!
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  21. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    To expand on what I mean. I am not near a PC to stitch these together, but you can see that the sun is in shot here. Note the tree just in shot to the right:

    image.

    That is the leftmost tree seen here:

    image.

    Now if you look a bit further right, note the rounded tree on the right above is next to a much nearer tree:

    image.

    And that is the tree that the camera loses the plane behind at about 3.25 when it zooms out:

    image.

    The approach from Jersey to EMA was slightly north of west, before it turned to land eastwards, while the departure to Edinburgh was more northerly. I'm not sure which of these fits better, but there's enough information in the video to work it out — you could construct a 360 degree panorama and figure out the angles.

    image.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
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  22. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    You are correct. I was never very good with colours! I can see the Dash 8 now. Thanks!
     
  23. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I think that I have identified the two consecutive planes in the video fragment dated 14 October (0:39 - 1:39):
    Screen Shot 2015-11-07 at 12.19.50.

    These are Delta B767 followed by American A330:
    Screen Shot 2015-11-07 at 11.49.17. Screen Shot 2015-11-07 at 11.50.28.
    The planes' illumination and orientation are consistent with them flying west of the observer's location somewhere in the vicinity of EMA.
     
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  24. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    I agree. I led myself astray last night and was looking south of Birmingham Airport. Those two aircraft continued over that area west of Coventry. I wasted a few hours looking in the wrong place!

    The following Sibec video from 28th June 2015. The timings are slightly out but a Boeing 747 can be seen on Planefinder west of Derby.

    upload_2015-11-7_13-49-41.



    upload_2015-11-7_13-51-55.
     
  25. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I think these are flybe Dash 8 (G-PRPC) and AirFrance A380, viewed in a WSW direction:
    Screen Shot 2015-11-07 at 14.03.07.
     
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  26. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    As I suggested earlier I put together a panorama from that video:

    panorama.

    It was made a bit less accurate by the fact that the zoom level changes during the pan, but I think this is reasonably close. The red lines show the same point at left and right. The green line is an approximation of the sun bearing.

    The plane is first spotted above the roof of the house:

    upload_2015-11-7_16-8-56.

    By my calculations the apex of the roof is on a bearing of approximately 205 degrees from the sun.

    The plane landed at 15:23 (UTC) and took off at 16:11 (UTC), so the local time, BST, would have been either approximately 4.15pm or 5.15pm. Sunset that day was about 6.02pm (BST) for East Midlands Airport.

    Sun angle at 4.15pm was 232 degrees, and at 5.15pm it would have been about 245 degrees:

    88aa5424725aab7f833c19bd64d95b28.

    So, assuming It was 4.15pm (I don't think the sun was low enough for it to be just 45 mins before sunset), the plane was first spotted when it was about 77 degrees, i.e. just north of east, from the camera position.

    The wings pass "square on" to the camera before it disappears behind the tree, I estimate when the camera was pointing on a bearing of roughly 20-25 degrees, suggesting the plane heading was roughly 290-295 degrees, i.e. NNW.

    That would roughly fit with the approach from Jersey according to the FR24 flightpath above.

    arrow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
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  27. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    Should say WNW, not NNW above.
     
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  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The location appear to be near Moira, UK.

    [​IMG]

    There's no real need to reveal a more precise location, which would be a violation of privacy, as Sibec appears not to want it known.

    Does this help with the OP red/blue video? Unfortunately there are no feaures in shot, so hard to say which direction he's facing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  29. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    I asked him months ago for the filming date of that video. All I got back was abuse and the usual claims of being a troll. I've asked him again but more than likely I have been blocked? I've sent a private message to his YT Channel mail asking for a date, time and filming direction. It is unfortunate that the aircraft types can't be seen. Possibly as suggested earlier it was two military aircraft?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2015
  30. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    This is increasingly likely. He zooms to many aircraft in his videos and they come out quite recognisable, but not the OP pair. Only a small dot can be seen in front of each trail when the sun reflects from the aircraft, whereas bigger planes usually produce a linear or multiple reflections. Here, for comparison, a couple of flickr photos of contrailling fighter jets in formation:
    393f21ad2407b1b8f86ad67fafc30ca3. Formation flying (_K5A1001) by Ross G. Strachan, on Flickr
    e76c364a4a67cd00a8c4508df25afefe. Fighter Jets flying in formation over Stansted Airport by bananamanuk79, on Flickr

    If the OP video is filmed from the same approximate location near EMA, I guess that it was shot in the morning in a south easterly direction (that is, toward the Sun). In this case, the aircraft were flying north and to the east of EMA, in the airspace that usually used by military planes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  31. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Here is a video of three MiG-21 in close formation with contrails, that shows apparent differences in the contrail densities behind different jets with presumably identical engines:
     
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  32. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Here is evidence of a possible dependency of contrail's hue on the altitude with lighting conditions being similar. The following photo shows the contrails from three commercial planes flying side by side but at different altitudes, from the top, 40,000, 38,000 and 36,000 ft:
    9aa0899ff3514496aec0569b0f60b63a. 3 Passagierjets über Basel im Formationsflug by Patrik Tschudin, on Flickr

    The planefinder.net playback on the date and time of the photo is still available, so all three planes are readily identified:
    Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 13.44.38.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
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  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Very interesting. Here's the three trails put side by side:
    [​IMG]
    The most strikingly different is the 747 at the top.

    There's several variable here.
    • Angle to the camera. This could cause differences based on refraction angles. Remember the suns rays are essentially parallel, so there is no change in angle to the sun.
    • Air conditions - temp and humidity will vary with altitude
    • Engine contrail factors - different engines make different contrails
    • Trail shape from engine positions and vortex physics - the 747 inner engines spread out into a sheet very rapidly.
    • Light conditions - different altitudes could have different light based on what the sunlight has to pass through to get there. This seems unlikely here, but the sun is very close to some clouds, some of which seem parallel to the trails.
     
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  34. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Possibly they were Eurofighter Typhoons? Typhoons regularly transit the UK by getting above the airliner traffic. I'm surprised that no one from the chemtrail community has filmed Typhoons doing this while leaving a contrail? I've seen it over Wales and is quite spectacular to watch with the contrails literally cutting off as they idle their engines and spiral downwards from 40,000ft+.

    Flt Lt Tim Clement, an RAF Typhoon Pilot, reveals in interview.

    http://www.globalaviationresource.com/reports/2010/29rsqn.php

    See from 1:25 in the following video for the 40,000 ft to 10,000 ft spiral.

     
  35. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Yes, they are, but most of them would affect the contrail brightness rather than its hue.

    Regarding angle to the camera. From Exif, the Focal Length (35mm format) is 100 mm, that gives FOV of only about 15° vertically. It is only about 2° difference between the top and the bottom trails and about 0.5° between the top and the middle trails. The bottom contrail is about 5° above the Sun at the closest point, but its tip is at twice angle from the Sun than the closest point of the top contrail.

    Light conditions for different altitudes will be different even without clouds. The sunlight scatters more as it penetrates deeper in the atmosphere. As the Sun elevation at this place at the time and date was only 21°, the difference in altitude between the contrails should multiplied by factor 3 (or 1/sin(21°)). That is, the sunlight goes through extra 6,000 ft of denser air to illuminate the contrail 2,000 ft below, losing a bit more of blue colour in the process. This may result in a notable difference in the contrails' hues.
     
  36. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    Similar colors as the OP, taken Dec. 24, 2015, 10:37 am pst (UTC -8). I was looking SSE from central Bakersfield. Same make and model of plane, slight difference in engines, 1025 ft. vertical clearance.

    DSCF1389.JPG
    UA1212. UA1212B. UA1957. UA1957B.
     
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